According to the brochure regarding the Touring "Those who crave a more hands-on driving experience can take advantage of the new 5-speed automatic transmission with sequential shift for manual gear changes at your command."
It sounded strange that you could manually shift an car like the Avalon, but this sounds like you can. If you cannot manually shift, it is confusing to me as it is written.
Can someone please explain what the brochure meant by the quote I included?
I am not a mechanic or overly inclined to these things so I need some help here...
Also can someone please address the advantages/disadvantages of a remote start?
I owned the first Avalon and loved it. I also owned the 2002 and currently have the 2004 with 19,000 miles in excellent condition, yet I will trade it in for the new 2005. I have been reading all the posts for awhile, and I must say as we know nothing in life is perfect, whether it be styling, handling or whatever. Yet this new Avalon as far as I am concerned will be the best car in the market for it's class in terms of overall comfort, horsepower, price, refinements and handling with it's almost noiseless compartment while driving. In fact it's noise level approaches the Big Lexus. So unless your a speed demon and need over 300 horses when you can't drive that fast anyway (and even 280 isn't necessary), or you want a wow, wow styling exterior to impress people (even though the styling is fine and nicer than my 04)) while some other make car lacks other things, or you need a name plate to impress for your ego, then all I can say is I'd rather be smart and spend my money wisely to impress myself and not others, than this is the car, and the XL is the best bargain of the lot. The touring isn't necessary and the additional items in the XLS like wood grain isn't worth the difference. I always purchased that at a discount from the suppliers that have different wood grains. Anyway, I thought I would add my two cents worth here, that this car from all I have read and seen is a winner and I will buy one of the first ones. Fortunately for me living in the South I don't need VSC, and besides I've done without that all my life when they weren't available and with over a million miles to my name I have never had an accident.
The transmission gate (lever) can be moved into a slot that allows you to push forward or backward on the geat lever in order to shift the vehicle manually.
As for the remote start, basically the only advantage is that it allows you to cool or heat the vehicle interior before you get into it.
Avalon Limited is a better value than Lexus ES330 or the Lexus LS430.
A topped out Lexus ES330 is $37,709, but for $601 more, you can get a topped out Avalon, which would include features not found in the Lexus ES330, just to name a few:
280 hp
Dynamic Laser Cruise
Turn signal and Puddle Lamp in side mirrors
360 watt 12 speaker system
Smart Key System
more interior space and etc.
You don't have to spend an exta $29,179 on the Lexus 430 to enjoy an 11+ speaker stereo system and to get Dynamic Laser Cruise.
Avalon Limited is a luxury value leader.
Avalon Limited is now an even better value over Lexus.
Now with the new price drop of a fully loaded Limited, it is now cheaper than a fully loaded Lexus ES330. Avalon Limited at $37,230(was $38,310) vs ES330 $37,709, not to mention the $30,259 extra you would have to pay for the Lexus 430 to get the 11+ speaker stereo system and to get Dynamic Laser Cruise.
Avalon Limited is looking better and better as a luxury value leader.
It will be interesting to see what the new ES 350 is like in 2006, I'm sure it will have many of the same "goodies" as the Avalon Limited. Where they go from there and how much it will cost is the question.
Does anyone know what the invoice cost is on the Avalon '05 Limited. Appears as though the sticker is $37,230. I have not been able to find an invoice on line.
Does anybody know which of the 4 models have the not-so-popular Auto-Temp heat/ac and which models do not? Standard or optional? Part of an options package? Should we guess on how it works? Cannot seem to find this information for some reason. Maybe I am looking in the wrong place. Thanks....
Does anybody know which of the 4 models have the not-so-popular Auto-Temp heat/ac and which models do not?
Auto-Temp? Do you mean automatic climate control? It's standard on all four trims, dual zone, with high-efficiency evaporator, anti-microbial evaporator coating, and air dust & pollen filter. And why is it "not-so-popular"?
Are these invoice prices with all the standard equipment for the respective models? I thought the XLS was in the $29.900 range. What is the diffeence between the XLS and Limited..Navigation system?
Max- do you like your Altima? I get the impression that you're less than thrilled.
That said, the Avalon Touring is really sweet, and in my opinion, a bargain for what you get. Even so, I think it an incredible oversight for Toyota not to offer VSC or NAV on this sporting model. And wider tires would be more in keeping with the alledged character of this car.
Just for reference:
As is available, a loaded Avalon Touring is $31,110. This includes Option Pkg H (JBL Synthesis, Power Moonroof, and Anti-Theft Alarm).
I would propose a Touring w/ a package that deletes the JBL Synthesis but adds NAV and VSC, which would make the price by my estimation: $34,000, which would still be an awesome price.
Thanks....future1.... I though I had saved that link and spec sheet but could not find them on the computer. It does appear that all models have the climate control. I was hoping otherwise.
If you scroll back thru many posts on the Avalon you will find problems with the XLS Auto-Temp are frequently mentioned. Far too many for this type car. You will also find several people, such as myself, who drive loaded XL's just to avoid the Auto-Temp feature on the current XLS. I also wanted the perforated leather (it's wonderful), not offered in '03 on XLS. In a prior post I mention that I once had a test drive in a demo XLS and the Auto Temp Control did not work properly the whole time we were out.
Given the info available on the 2005 I am not sure an HVAC comparison is fair at this point. New car, new controls and system, maybe. But this is something that needs to be checked, as with the shift hesitation issue from the Lexus. And obviously, all who read and post here will be among the first to know the answers.
I am considering the navigation system in the limited and having never had a one in my car, I'm not sure I recognize all the benefits. Can someone tell me, other the the obvious direction/location/services assistance what else does this system do? Such as added audio/climate information/functions etc. or would you get the same info as the standard display when the nav is off?
To those who are falling over themselves over the new Avalon I suggest cross shopping the new Infiniti M35/45 before committing to the stodgy Avalon.
The Infiniti M-class comes in two flavors, a powerful V-6 or a best in class V-8. The V-6 (with more standard equipment than the Avalon) is expected to retail in the mid -to high $30ks, a price comparable to the Limited. And better yet, you can add many sophisticated options such as swivel xenon headlights, etc., etc.
Any chance they will add a bench seat? I'm fairly tall and find that my leg hits the console in most vehicles (have not tried the new Avalon yet). Have you heard of any other cars with a bench seat?
The M class starts $40,510 including destination, with the M45 starting at $47,360. A loaded Avalon Limited stickers at $37,300, including Laser Cruise, NAV, etc, none of which is standard on the base M35. Equip an M35 similarly to the Avalon Limited, and you're looking at about $44K. To me a $6000+ spread is not a price "comparable to the Avalon Limited".
I don't particularly see a lot of cross-shopping between the two. The M class is far sportier vehicle than Avalon Touring even portends to be.
You can find actual pricing specs on nissannews.com.
I like my Altima...its been a fairly good car. I just wish I had the V6 sometimes...
As far as the Avalon, at the rate I am going, I'll be able to get myself in an Avalon once I finish school I hope.
As you know, I HOPE and PRAY I get a job working for Toyota one of these days....that would be my greatest joy. I wouldn't mind working for Nissan either.
But to be on topic, I think the Touring is a great model, but I find the XLS model to be the best value. Since I am young, I'd be aiming at that Touring model with black leather.
In the meantime, I'll keep driving "Allana" until I get my degree from Clemson University.
The Portland (Oregon) Auto Show ads today say they will have the new Avalon on display. I'll be traveling (220 miles) this weekend (Jan 27-29)to see it. I'm interested in the Limited with Option B. Do youse guys have any questions you'd like me to ask the Avalon factory reps? Wes
I wonder if memory functions, power rear sunshade, and rain-sensing wipers are available on other models (XLS). When I studied the pictures at pressroom.toyota.com, the seats look like 12-way driver (with lumbar) and 4-way passenger.
Invoice of $25.5 for a Touring looks good to me. How close to invoice have current Avalons been selling for? Seems like if one could purchase a new Avalon Touring anywhere near that price, it would in fact be a super "value." Heck, that's what an Acura TSX, (which my wife thought was a Civic when she saw one), goes for.
How close to invoice have current Avalons been selling for?
Current Avalons are selling about $500 below invoice, thanks to the Toyota-to-dealer incentive. The 2005 Touring will probably sell at full MSRP, judging from the enthusiatic reponses here. That's something I don't understand -- I thought Avalon shoppers are looking for a plush, comfortable, quiet ride. Why on Earth would you want to make that ride harsher with the Touring suspension? If you want a sportier handling, wouldn't BMW/Honda/Nissan make a better choice?
Re: BMW, Honda, Nissan alternatives: For me a well priced (like maybe $26.5 street price) new Avalon touring beats those. Even a base BMW 325 costs more than this, and is quite a bit smaller. Also, long term reliability on BMWs scares me. Honda has nothing that compares. A decked out Accord is nice, but is smaller and what's with that rear-end? Acura(honda) TL is at least $5k more, but admittedly more sporty. Also seems smaller. And the new Nissan Maxima is just plain weird looking, gets pretty pricey too. Thus, the new Avalon Touring (even an XL if I could get it with leather) fits what I need in a car (ie, sized well for 6 foot plus 200# guys, good reliability (probably), adult styling, and nice appointments)....if it's priced right. Just my $.02.
What about the Limited with all the options...Nav, Laser Cruise, VSC. The dealers in my area (Northern CA-Sacramento, Modesto) have been telling me it is going for full MSRP. One dealer offered me one at $500 below MSRP. I personally am used to bargaining up from the invoice, rather than down from the MSRP, but I am not sure about this car since it is so new.
Does anyone know what they are going for? I was told the same thing when shopping for the TL w/Nav and found that to be true-selling close to MSRP-at least in my area.
I'm in the same general geographic area as you. I've only got one price quote so far--I want to actually drive the thing before getting really serious--and that was for MSRP on a Limited with VSC and without Nav. I was told that all models coming in equipped like that also have the remote starter installed. May I ask who gave you the $500 below MSRP quote?
Paying close to MSRP would be a new experience for me. Since I don't need a new car right away, I may wait a month or two to see how things settle out if the initial prices remain "sticky". I would think that if Toyota really expects to increase Avalon sales from the 38,000 or so in 2004 to the 100,000 that has been announced, they will have to eventually do some "pushing" once the first rush is over.............
Re: BMW, Honda, Nissan alternatives: For me a well priced (like maybe $26.5 street price) new Avalon touring beats those.
Well, let's get as close to "apples to apples" as we can:
Standard Acura TL TMV (true market value) is $33,110. That includes a celebrated DVD-Audio System and moonroof. To match those, you will need to load the Avalon Touring with option G. That will get you to $28,600 (Touring Base) + $1750 (Option G) + $550 (Destination) = $30,900. That is still $2,210 less than TL, but remember that Acura has standard heated seats, heated mirrors, memory steats and mirrors, and perhaps most importantly, stability control. None of these options are available in the Touring. Let's say that these options are worth $1500. The end result is that the TL is only about $700 more expensive than Touring.
Now, of course, Avalon is a bigger car and is probably more comfortable, and this has a certain monetary value, too. But since when does it matter in a car with a sporty suspension?
Don't get me wrong, I love the new Avalon, and will probably end up buying it (XLS or Limited). I just don't understand how the Touring trim can win the hearts and minds, considering the competition and Toyota's well deserved reputation for "unsportiness". That's precisely what I like about the Avalon -- the unsporty ride -- lazy, quiet, and undisturbed.
What about the Limited with all the options...Nav, Laser Cruise, VSC. The dealers in my area (Northern CA-Sacramento, Modesto) have been telling me it is going for full MSRP. One dealer offered me one at $500 below MSRP.
I am looking at the fully loaded Limited, too. I've heard the same comments from the inventory manager of my dealership as you did -- the new Avalon is expected to sell at MSRP. However, as I mentioned in this thread a week ago, a dealer gave me a call, and when I asked him about the prices, he told me he doesn't have people lining up for the Avalon like they did for the Prius. My guess is that the Limited will be selling about $1500 below MSRP in February, and even lower in the subsequent months.
I own a 2000 Avalon xls. This is my second Avalon. It runs as good as the day I drove it out of the showroom. I have had absolutely no problems with it.
I'm in line for the new 2005. I'm in south Florida and have 5 Toyota dealerships within a half hour of me. None have brochures or cars yet. However, two have told me they are having a in house session on the Jan 27th with new car present. I suspect we will see cars in showrooms first or second week of February. I would also be surprised if the discounting doesn't start within a day or two after they first appear.
I will probably buy an XLS, but I'm anxious to see the Touring model before I decide. I expect to get a reasonable discount from MRSP, or it's no go.
there is a picture that looks like the graphite trim in the Limited. Or it may just be a poorly lit light grey interior. Too hard to tell.
The brochure that I received from the dealership (depicting some dudes that look like they are full of themselves around the Avalon on glossy paper) indicates 3 choices of interior color for the Limited: Ivory, Light Gray, and Graphite.
An "apples to apples" comparison that requires optioning up the Avalon so it is comparable to, say, a TL is not my point. My point is that if, maybe by summer, Avalons can be purchased for, say, $1000 above invoice, a Touring model (which would be be my choice since its the cheapest with leather apparently) would be a great deal in the mid $26k range, considering what else is out there AT THAT PRICE (ie, not much). Again, if I could get an XL with leather for even less, I'd probably get it since even in base form the Avalon has what I want/need in convenience features, roominess (important), engine power, and reliability.
You are correct in that the Limited that is coming in with Nav and Laser also has the remote start, wheel locks and carpeted mats-dealer add ons none of which I particularly want.
I intend to bargain as if the add ons were not a part of the deal, and begin with the MSRP of 37,230. The present MSRP with everything added on is 38,100 and the price quoted was 37,600
I hope to start bargaining at 37,230 and get it for somewhere around 36,500 with all the dealer add ons. Of course I am flexible since it so new, but I hate paying sticker for anything.
The dealership is Toyota of Sacramento. When I get the paperwork or something more solid I can give you more specifics.
Re the next Australian Avalon, I'm curious to know whether anybody knows anything come to think of it, you probably don't care. I own a 2003 Avalon bought new. It's a mix of the late 90's US model shape with much of the latest gear- even including (probably using we Ozzies - yes that's how we pronounce ourselves)some stuff that's on the US 2005 Avalon just launched. I think they use us as a testbed sometimes. The Avalon bombed in a big way here as like the US we old folk tend to buy it for plush no worries motoring along with Lexuslike quality yet at a bargain price. BUT, here in OZ, Holden(GM) & Falcon(Ford) are slightly bigger, much more powerful & REAR WHEEL DRIVE! It's quite something to get the big grunt - rear wheel drive lovers into Avalons. Still, Toyota here have touted what seems like a 2006 longer wheelbase standard Avalon which is NOT the US car. Thinks.... UM???? What do they have in mind.
I saw the actual brochure today for the 2005 Avalon. Toyota dropped the ball on the brochures, it's so ordinary. It's as if the new Avalon was here already for three years and they just printed a brochure with no big deal. Terrible marketing of a new car we are so excited about and can't wait to see.
What area do you live in? You mentioned getting 1500 off MSRP and I'm wondering if the area I live in will dictate what kind of discount is offered? The most I have heard is $500 in my area so far. I just assumed there was a demand everywhere for them-but maybe not.
I want to make sure my offer is legit for my area. In Northern CA I was told that there was a waiting list, but that could just be a marketing tool.
With so few coming in the Limited trim with everything I want to make sure I get one, but that I also good deal on it.
Anyone who is calling up hot about the Avalon, is gonna get the 'we're selling at MSRP' only line.
To be honest, what else do you expect them to say? At least at this point.
Here is my plan (for what it's worth).
My current vehicle's lease is up May 1st. So starting late April, I am going to spec out the Avalon I want, and send it out using Auto-by-Tel.
Why? Because the car techo nerds that work at the dealerships, that read the auto-by-tell emails that come in, know they have to compete with every other dealership in town. (I am a nerd too, so no offense.)
When the dealerships in town have a parking lot filled with Avalons (which you KNOW they will), and they have a real person wanting a competitive quote, I bet that quoted price starts to get real close to invoice.
If you want to be the first guy in town to buy an Avalon, then you will probably pay MSRP.
But let the hype die down a little, let the new car manager start to sweat because they have 14 new Avalons on the lot, then pay them a visit.
I bought my 2002 Avalon for $1000 over invoice, and that was because that was the only dealership in town that had the exact car I was looking for.
Just MY 2 cents worth!
P.S.-I don't think the world is clammering for this car (yet). I think it's hard for people to think of the new Avalon as sporty. But what do you call 280hp? Ummmm, sporty. Heck, the outgoing Caddy STS was front wheel drive and had 300hp, but also sold for $50k.
What area do you live in? You mentioned getting 1500 off MSRP and I'm wondering if the area I live in will dictate what kind of discount is offered? The most I have heard is $500 in my area so far.
I am in the North East. Just to clarify, I was not actually offered $1500 off MSRP, it's just my speculation that this is what I will pay. That's based on a few things:
1. The two Avalon "first test drive reviews" found on Web are not exactly rave.
2. The upper trims seem to be overpriced (compared to Lexus ES330), while the lower trims are lacking options (which can be found standard in the competition).
3. My dealer said that there was not much interest in the new Avalon so far.
4. The Limited couldn't sell in the recent ebay auction (reserve price was not reached), and the new auction for XLS is quiet as Saturday morning in Iowa -- not a single bid in 6 days.
5. The new Camry and new ES330 are coming soon -- this is likely to make the Avalon less attractive.
6. Toyota's plan to produce 100,000 Avalons this year seems overly aggressive to me, considering that the 2004 sales were about 35,000 of Avalons, which was a 35% drop from the year before. I expect the oversupply of 05 Avalons on the lots.
7. The new Avalon's profile is pretty fuzzy: for the large car, the 14.4 cu.ft trunk is way too small; for the performance car, it needs a much younger audience, which will take time to win; for the family sedan, it clearly loses to Camry in value; and for the stereotypical 65 year old retiree in Florida, it has way too much power, both in the engine and the way it looks.
This 7-point view may seem overly pessimistic, and I didn't state the obvious angles from where the new Avalon shines, but that was my intention -- to outline the resons why the Avalon may sell at a significant discount to its MSRP. I still love the Avalon, but the unbiased approach has its values, too.
While your views are extremely valuable, there are those, including me, that do no share all of them. Posts over the Avalon site, had many buyers, who drive for extended miles at high speeds, and with increased driving demands, such as tortuous road conditions, pulling a trailer, etc. desiring a more road worthy car. Actually, as much as the corporation does its own thing, it at least listen to some of us consumers, that liked the Avalon, but would be willing to give a a small amount of ride comfort to get a moderate amount of increased handling and braking performance. I did this buy buying a XL in 02, putting on premium aftermarket parts, which luckily gave me the car that could not have been purchased anywhere in the North American market place. Now, fortunately, with the Touring Model, people who desire a little more of a controlled ride without harshness can get that, HID lights, etc. without having to buy the electronic gizmos that are not very important to some. It took me close to 1.5 years to make my Avalon handle correctly, brake effeciently without nose diving, and have appropriate amount of night lighting in adverse weather conditions including snow white outs, fog, etc.(done with two sets of PIAA 1500's, one for Fog, one for highspeed suplemental driving). If I were to buy a car now, the limited would have been the most likely model for me to choose since I am not at all interested in a sun roof, computer in the car or DVD, fake wood trim, or other electronic devices that add to the weight and cost but we are charged a premium for. Rathter, the sport tuned suspension, HID's, are more down some ally, although the 17" wheels, dual exhaust outlets (not true dual exhaust), premium gas with same size tank as previous model, and lack of a bench seat, place this car to compete with a others that have the same critieria.
This is just my take. Not the gospel. But there are some of us out here, that have different needs and wants, but still would like to have the room and comfort that all Avalons provide.
Comments
It sounded strange that you could manually shift an car like the Avalon, but this sounds like you can. If you cannot manually shift, it is confusing to me as it is written.
Can someone please explain what the brochure meant by the quote I included?
I am not a mechanic or overly inclined to these things so I need some help here...
Also can someone please address the advantages/disadvantages of a remote start?
As for the remote start, basically the only advantage is that it allows you to cool or heat the vehicle interior before you get into it.
Avalon Limited is a better value than Lexus ES330 or the Lexus LS430.
A topped out Lexus ES330 is $37,709, but for $601 more, you can get a topped out Avalon, which would include features not found in the Lexus ES330, just to name a few:
280 hp
Dynamic Laser Cruise
Turn signal and Puddle Lamp in side mirrors
360 watt 12 speaker system
Smart Key System
more interior space and etc.
You don't have to spend an exta $29,179 on the Lexus 430 to enjoy an 11+ speaker stereo system and to get Dynamic Laser Cruise.
Avalon Limited is a luxury value leader.
Avalon Limited is now an even better value over Lexus.
Now with the new price drop of a fully loaded Limited, it is now cheaper than a fully loaded Lexus ES330. Avalon Limited at $37,230(was $38,310) vs ES330 $37,709, not to mention the $30,259 extra you would have to pay for the Lexus 430 to get the 11+ speaker stereo system and to get Dynamic Laser Cruise.
Avalon Limited is looking better and better as a luxury value leader.
It will be interesting to see what the new ES 350 is like in 2006, I'm sure it will have many of the same "goodies" as the Avalon Limited. Where they go from there and how much it will cost is the question.
XL - $23,543
Touring - $25,554
XLS - $27,104
Limited - $29,514
Auto-Temp? Do you mean automatic climate control? It's standard on all four trims, dual zone, with high-efficiency evaporator, anti-microbial evaporator coating, and air dust & pollen filter. And why is it "not-so-popular"?
Here is the spec you may have missed: http://www.tundrasolutions.com/dealers/vehicles/2005-Avalon/index- .htm
That said, the Avalon Touring is really sweet, and in my opinion, a bargain for what you get. Even so, I think it an incredible oversight for Toyota not to offer VSC or NAV on this sporting model. And wider tires would be more in keeping with the alledged character of this car.
Just for reference:
As is available, a loaded Avalon Touring is $31,110. This includes Option Pkg H (JBL Synthesis, Power Moonroof, and Anti-Theft Alarm).
I would propose a Touring w/ a package that deletes the JBL Synthesis but adds NAV and VSC, which would make the price by my estimation: $34,000, which would still be an awesome price.
~alpha
If you scroll back thru many posts on the Avalon you will find problems with the XLS Auto-Temp are frequently mentioned. Far too many for this type car. You will also find several people, such as myself, who drive loaded XL's just to avoid the Auto-Temp feature on the current XLS. I also wanted the perforated leather (it's wonderful), not offered in '03 on XLS. In a prior post I mention that I once had a test drive in a demo XLS and the Auto Temp Control did not work properly the whole time we were out.
Given the info available on the 2005 I am not sure an HVAC comparison is fair at this point. New car, new controls and system, maybe. But this is something that needs to be checked, as with the shift hesitation issue from the Lexus. And obviously, all who read and post here will be among the first to know the answers.
Thanks.
The Infiniti M-class comes in two flavors, a powerful V-6 or a best in class V-8. The V-6 (with more standard equipment than the Avalon) is expected to retail in the mid -to high $30ks, a price comparable to the Limited. And better yet, you can add many sophisticated options such as swivel xenon headlights, etc., etc.
I don't particularly see a lot of cross-shopping between the two. The M class is far sportier vehicle than Avalon Touring even portends to be.
You can find actual pricing specs on nissannews.com.
~alpha
As far as the Avalon, at the rate I am going, I'll be able to get myself in an Avalon once I finish school I hope.
As you know, I HOPE and PRAY I get a job working for Toyota one of these days....that would be my greatest joy. I wouldn't mind working for Nissan either.
But to be on topic, I think the Touring is a great model, but I find the XLS model to be the best value. Since I am young, I'd be aiming at that Touring model with black leather.
In the meantime, I'll keep driving "Allana" until I get my degree from Clemson University.
But no Avalon.
The people told me it will be out by the end of Feb.
I can't wait to see one.
The Camry's power driver seat (std. LE, SE, XLE) is 10 way, btw.
~alpha
Current Avalons are selling about $500 below invoice, thanks to the Toyota-to-dealer incentive. The 2005 Touring will probably sell at full MSRP, judging from the enthusiatic reponses here. That's something I don't understand -- I thought Avalon shoppers are looking for a plush, comfortable, quiet ride. Why on Earth would you want to make that ride harsher with the Touring suspension? If you want a sportier handling, wouldn't BMW/Honda/Nissan make a better choice?
Does anyone know what they are going for? I was told the same thing when shopping for the TL w/Nav and found that to be true-selling close to MSRP-at least in my area.
I would appreciate any advice.
I'm in the same general geographic area as you. I've only got one price quote so far--I want to actually drive the thing before getting really serious--and that was for MSRP on a Limited with VSC and without Nav. I was told that all models coming in equipped like that also have the remote starter installed. May I ask who gave you the $500 below MSRP quote?
Paying close to MSRP would be a new experience for me. Since I don't need a new car right away, I may wait a month or two to see how things settle out if the initial prices remain "sticky". I would think that if Toyota really expects to increase Avalon sales from the 38,000 or so in 2004 to the 100,000 that has been announced, they will have to eventually do some "pushing" once the first rush is over.............
Well, let's get as close to "apples to apples" as we can:
Standard Acura TL TMV (true market value) is $33,110. That includes a celebrated DVD-Audio System and moonroof. To match those, you will need to load the Avalon Touring with option G. That will get you to $28,600 (Touring Base) + $1750 (Option G) + $550 (Destination) = $30,900. That is still $2,210 less than TL, but remember that Acura has standard heated seats, heated mirrors, memory steats and mirrors, and perhaps most importantly, stability control. None of these options are available in the Touring. Let's say that these options are worth $1500. The end result is that the TL is only about $700 more expensive than Touring.
Now, of course, Avalon is a bigger car and is probably more comfortable, and this has a certain monetary value, too. But since when does it matter in a car with a sporty suspension?
Don't get me wrong, I love the new Avalon, and will probably end up buying it (XLS or Limited). I just don't understand how the Touring trim can win the hearts and minds, considering the competition and Toyota's well deserved reputation for "unsportiness". That's precisely what I like about the Avalon -- the unsporty ride -- lazy, quiet, and undisturbed.
there is a picture that looks like the graphite trim in the Limited. Or it may just be a poorly lit light grey interior. Too hard to tell.
I am looking at the fully loaded Limited, too. I've heard the same comments from the inventory manager of my dealership as you did -- the new Avalon is expected to sell at MSRP. However, as I mentioned in this thread a week ago, a dealer gave me a call, and when I asked him about the prices, he told me he doesn't have people lining up for the Avalon like they did for the Prius. My guess is that the Limited will be selling about $1500 below MSRP in February, and even lower in the subsequent months.
I'm in line for the new 2005. I'm in south Florida and have 5 Toyota dealerships within a half hour of me. None have brochures or cars yet. However, two have told me they are having a in house session on the Jan 27th with new car present. I suspect we will see cars in showrooms first or second week of February. I would also be surprised if the discounting doesn't start within a day or two after they first appear.
I will probably buy an XLS, but I'm anxious to see the Touring model before I decide. I expect to get a reasonable discount from MRSP, or it's no go.
The brochure that I received from the dealership (depicting some dudes that look like they are full of themselves around the Avalon on glossy paper) indicates 3 choices of interior color for the Limited: Ivory, Light Gray, and Graphite.
I intend to bargain as if the add ons were not a part of the deal, and begin with the MSRP of 37,230. The present MSRP with everything added on is 38,100 and the price quoted was 37,600
I hope to start bargaining at 37,230 and get it for somewhere around 36,500 with all the dealer add ons. Of course I am flexible since it so new, but I hate paying sticker for anything.
The dealership is Toyota of Sacramento. When I get the paperwork or something more solid I can give you more specifics.
What area do you live in? You mentioned getting 1500 off MSRP and I'm wondering if the area I live in will dictate what kind of discount is offered? The most I have heard is $500 in my area so far. I just assumed there was a demand everywhere for them-but maybe not.
I want to make sure my offer is legit for my area. In Northern CA I was told that there was a waiting list, but that could just be a marketing tool.
With so few coming in the Limited trim with everything I want to make sure I get one, but that I also good deal on it.
Any advice?
Anyone who is calling up hot about the Avalon, is gonna get the 'we're selling at MSRP' only line.
To be honest, what else do you expect them to say? At least at this point.
Here is my plan (for what it's worth).
My current vehicle's lease is up May 1st. So starting late April, I am going to spec out the Avalon I want, and send it out using Auto-by-Tel.
Why? Because the car techo nerds that work at the dealerships, that read the auto-by-tell emails that come in, know they have to compete with every other dealership in town. (I am a nerd too, so no offense.)
When the dealerships in town have a parking lot filled with Avalons (which you KNOW they will), and they have a real person wanting a competitive quote, I bet that quoted price starts to get real close to invoice.
If you want to be the first guy in town to buy an Avalon, then you will probably pay MSRP.
But let the hype die down a little, let the new car manager start to sweat because they have 14 new Avalons on the lot, then pay them a visit.
I bought my 2002 Avalon for $1000 over invoice, and that was because that was the only dealership in town that had the exact car I was looking for.
Just MY 2 cents worth!
P.S.-I don't think the world is clammering for this car (yet). I think it's hard for people to think of the new Avalon as sporty. But what do you call 280hp? Ummmm, sporty.
I am in the North East. Just to clarify, I was not actually offered $1500 off MSRP, it's just my speculation that this is what I will pay. That's based on a few things:
1. The two Avalon "first test drive reviews" found on Web are not exactly rave.
2. The upper trims seem to be overpriced (compared to Lexus ES330), while the lower trims are lacking options (which can be found standard in the competition).
3. My dealer said that there was not much interest in the new Avalon so far.
4. The Limited couldn't sell in the recent ebay auction (reserve price was not reached), and the new auction for XLS is quiet as Saturday morning in Iowa -- not a single bid in 6 days.
5. The new Camry and new ES330 are coming soon -- this is likely to make the Avalon less attractive.
6. Toyota's plan to produce 100,000 Avalons this year seems overly aggressive to me, considering that the 2004 sales were about 35,000 of Avalons, which was a 35% drop from the year before. I expect the oversupply of 05 Avalons on the lots.
7. The new Avalon's profile is pretty fuzzy: for the large car, the 14.4 cu.ft trunk is way too small; for the performance car, it needs a much younger audience, which will take time to win; for the family sedan, it clearly loses to Camry in value; and for the stereotypical 65 year old retiree in Florida, it has way too much power, both in the engine and the way it looks.
This 7-point view may seem overly pessimistic, and I didn't state the obvious angles from where the new Avalon shines, but that was my intention -- to outline the resons why the Avalon may sell at a significant discount to its MSRP. I still love the Avalon, but the unbiased approach has its values, too.
While your views are extremely valuable, there are those, including me, that do no share all of them. Posts over the Avalon site, had many buyers, who drive for extended miles at high speeds, and with increased driving demands, such as tortuous road conditions, pulling a trailer, etc. desiring a more road worthy car. Actually, as much as the corporation does its own thing, it at least listen to some of us consumers, that liked the Avalon, but would be willing to give a a small amount of ride comfort to get a moderate amount of increased handling and braking performance. I did this buy buying a XL in 02, putting on premium aftermarket parts, which luckily gave me the car that could not have been purchased anywhere in the North American market place. Now, fortunately, with the Touring Model, people who desire a little more of a controlled ride without harshness can get that, HID lights, etc. without having to buy the electronic gizmos that are not very important to some. It took me close to 1.5 years to make my Avalon handle correctly, brake effeciently without nose diving, and have appropriate amount of night lighting in adverse weather conditions including snow white outs, fog, etc.(done with two sets of PIAA 1500's, one for Fog, one for highspeed suplemental driving). If I were to buy a car now, the limited would have been the most likely model for me to choose since I am not at all interested in a sun roof, computer in the car or DVD, fake wood trim, or other electronic devices that add to the weight and cost but we are charged a premium for. Rathter, the sport tuned suspension, HID's, are more down some ally, although the 17" wheels, dual exhaust outlets (not true dual exhaust), premium gas with same size tank as previous model, and lack of a bench seat, place this car to compete with a others that have the same critieria.
This is just my take. Not the gospel. But there are some of us out here, that have different needs and wants, but still would like to have the room and comfort that all Avalons provide.
abfisch