2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

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Comments

  • gschultz3gschultz3 Member Posts: 134
    I like to hear more about what they plan to do. Where will they put the DVD player? Seems like the PAC-AUDIO site does not have a system for the Avalon yet? Will your friend install the camera through the car exterior. I had a third party backup camera in a previous car but was not happy with the installation of the camera .... in the way, wires exposed, not fixed. Love to have a camera which could be focused and aligned at different directions automatically.
  • gschultz3gschultz3 Member Posts: 134
    I know they are not considered to be in the same class but I find that the Avalon is almost identical to the RX330 2WD in comfort, ride and fit & finish ...... RX Sedan with much more get and go and rear seat room.
  • gschultz3gschultz3 Member Posts: 134
    I also finally decided not to get XM. I have had two cars with Sirius in the past 2 years. I think Sirius is better for me (more non-music content) but to be honest we did not use it anymore than the CD player and radio. Both systems were built-in like the Avalon. In both cases I sold the cars with many months left on my subscription. Considering the cost of installation and the monthly charges I paid about $70/month or $140/month when I had both cars.
  • chipmunk47chipmunk47 Member Posts: 39
    Take the car back to the dealer. It's under warranty. Have them fix it.
  • ronnronn Member Posts: 398
    dajab... Sorry..I do not have a picture to send. I don't understand why you can't get the darker wood there with the light gray. It does look great, and the darker contrast well with the light.
    I actually wasn't sure when I got mine, which wood I would have, as my Limited had already been made. I ask for a loaded Black Limited with gray interior, and hoped that it would be the dark wood. When it came, it had it!!!!! Maybe you will get a surprise too!
    Best of luck with yours..enjoy the car. It's awesome!!
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    There's four ways gold packages get done.
    1. at the factory
    2. at the port
    3. at the dealer using factory emblems
    4. at the dealer using independent contractor

    Of these four options the first three use the factory emblems which at the present time are not available for the 05 Avalon (not yet anyway),
    Option four is done by the independent contractor and you can request just about anything that can be gold plated to be plated. For a nominal charge of course. I have noticed in my experience that the factory emblems have a deeper gold finish and tone and are brighter than the plating done by individual contractors which looks lighter.
    : )
    Mackabee
  • mikes.mikes. Member Posts: 337
    "I am not sure if I understand this. I'm interested in DVD. Assume the headrest only contains the LCD? Where do you put the DVD player? Is Visualogic the name of the third party who sells DVD players ...... whats A-1000 or A-2000?"

    You assume wrong, the replacement headrest contains the DVD player as well as the LCD. Yes Vizualogic is the 3rd party and A-1000 & A-2000 are model numbers, reread my original post, please.

    Both models come as either a single DVD player or a double DVD player system. Single system sends the DVD to the driver side & the passenger side. The passenger side can optionally play a game unit like game-boy if they don't want to watch the DVD. Or they can turn off the monitor. The setup comes with 2 IR headphones and a multi-channel FM broadcaster for use with the car audio.

    I didn't find any other company selling a headrest with the DVD built in. Be careful of what you buy, even Vizualogic sells LCD headrest only models. Their A-1000 & 2000 have the DVD built in.

    Cheapest I found was $1,130 USD off the net out of Georgia.

    www.vizualogic.com for the company or Google it for wholesellers & retailers.

    MikeS.
  • mikes.mikes. Member Posts: 337
    "There's four ways gold packages get done.
    1. at the factory
    2. at the port
    3. at the dealer using factory emblems
    4. at the dealer using independent contractor

    Of these four options the first three use the factory emblems which at the present time are not available for the 05 Avalon (not yet anyway),"

    Mackabee, if/when these come available PLEASE post that info here.

    Does any1 here know of an independent contractor doing this in the Northern Virginia area? I might go that route.

    Thanks,

    MikeS.
  • jcu1963jcu1963 Member Posts: 22
    "I don’t think dealers can mix and match the options within packages, but do they group option packages with accessories and rename it? For example, would they take Toyota’s option package c, add floor mats and call it option package A at their dealership?"

    With all of the posts regarding MSRP, invoice price, option packages, etc., I was hoping that this recent post would elicit some responses. However, none have been noted.

    Purchasers have indicated NAV, XM radio, laser cruise control, etc. in order to provide a basis for the price paid, but not many have clarified the Toyota accessories.
  • bobt2bobt2 Member Posts: 11
    Yep, knew all that had have locked in already.

    I was wondering more if there was a discount from Toyota on the XM price if one moved a preexisting subscription to the new radio.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Ronn, currently there is a problem with the software that gets reviews posted. Your review should be there when it gets straightened out which may not happen until the end of the month.

    I will let you know when it's fixed.
  • treynardtreynard Member Posts: 12
    IMHO ... These issues have NOT been discussed enough. When I'm faced with paying $35,000 for a brand new vehicle, I want all the information I can get. There are often issues with totally new vehicles and engines, and the nagging questions about Toyota's problems with some similar 5-speed auto transmissions need to be thoughtfully considered, not ignored because of the sometimes irrational enthusiasm of new car buyers. It is the "gotta be the first to own one buyers" who are throwing caution out the window here. Let's get all the input we can from owners and others in the know. Right now, there are a lot of unknowns about the new Avalon. I drive a Toyota and a Lexus now, and consider myself a car enthusiast ... but I'm going to be critically analyzing in my buying decision. Early buyers will pay the highest prices and take risks associated with owning a totally new product. If you look at the current issue of Consumer Reports (Annual Auto Issue), and check the reliability scores of Toyota and others ... you will see that first year models typically have more issues than vehicles in their 2nd, 3rd, etc. years. Why pay a premium price to be a guinea pig? T Reynard
  • motownusamotownusa Member Posts: 836
    Obviously, you are in the minority. People who don't have problems are not going to talk about problems. Whatever, problems you have post it in the "Problems and Solutions" section if you want people to respond.
  • ronnronn Member Posts: 398
    treynard....I did not buy the Avalon to be a "first buyer" of this new model. I bought it because of the continued performance of Toyotas. While there could be some issues since it is a new product, I have not had any problems..not even a squeak!!!! It is getting 22.9mpg for city driving which I'm very impressed with. I do not have any hesitation with the changing of gears, very smooth. I find the car to be the most quiet of the Lexus and Acura that I test drove before deciding on the Limited. The Nav. works great..I have had no problems. Love the Stereo.Any new car is a gamble in my opinion, and it doesn't matter if it is a new model or not. You can get good and bad in any. I feel others feel the same as I do...we bought this car not for just its looks, but for the continued great performance of Toyotas. I hope others will comment on this too!!!
  • buckwheatbuckwheat Member Posts: 396
    I concur with most of your post, but some "nagging questions" have already been discussed here, for example your transmission comment, I believe referring to "hesitation", there are about five pages of posts on this and as you may already know you can access those posts by entering, for example, "hesitation" or "transmission" in the Search this Discussion window at the top right or bottom right of this page. Hope this is of assistance to you..
  • boatsmanboatsman Member Posts: 37
    It's not hesitation but whenever I'm driving at any speed and take my foot off the gas it doesn't feel like the car coasts freely. Instead it feels like it is in a lower gear and slowing down the car more than normal. I have never had a Toyota before or a 5speed transmision so maybe this is normal. I would think with 5 speeds the car would role more freely, not less when coasting. My gas economy is normal however.
  • ronnronn Member Posts: 398
    I would like to add that Toyota will stand behind any issues, and will take care of any problems with its new flagship. They are just as proud as we are...After all, that's what the warranty is for too! Good luck in your decisions.
  • just__mejust__me Member Posts: 508
    Treynard. My experience is the same as Ronns. I have absolutely no problems, my car runs smoothly, trust me I am looking at everything and listening, for now it's perfect, no hesitation with the tranny regardless what some others experienced. I guess each car has it's own individuality? I can't make a problem where there isn't any. I'm not a picky person to begin with but with a car I am and no problems with my Avalon. Scroll up and read some of the latest reviews by clicking on the links above. My car is a Lexus Quality without the name plate but produced by the same corporation. I honestly believe this new Avalon is going to give some Lexus buyers some second thoughts unless a status name plate means something to them. Toyota will have to deal with losing some Lexus sales by upgrading this Avalon, but they sure made me happier to get a Lexus quality for thousands less. I would rather stroke my ego by knowing I got one hell of an automobile for a lot less than flaunting a name plate to satisfy it.
  • bikegalbikegal Member Posts: 50
    It sounds like Toyota did a great job with the new Avalon. But you can bet your paycheck that the redesigned Lexus 330 ES will blow the socks off of Avalon. Not in size of course, but in every other aspect.

    The new ES will be available next year.
  • ronnronn Member Posts: 398
    They did do a great job!!!!!!!!
  • ronnronn Member Posts: 398
    The new Lexus probably will be a great car as well. After all, it's made by the same company. I think we need to be reminded that this Forun is about Avalon. Thanks
  • pricecutterpricecutter Member Posts: 49
    Thanks again to just me and hawkeve. Took your suggestions and "works like charm." Best wishes.
  • abfischabfisch Member Posts: 591
    Fin:

    Thanks. Can you possibly get a more detailed answer. Many times, as you probably know, the tranny and frame have as much to do with it as power. Besides that, and maybe weight, I am not sure and don't have enough knowlege.

    It does seem very odd, and that is why I thought maybe it was a misprint or soemthing.

    very strange. The increase torque in the new engine, more than hp would be welcome, as my 02 trails very nicely, but much better when taken OUT of OD, and left in the first three gears. It doesn't hunt between 3 and 4th on hills trying to match up.

    Anyway, probably not a big deal to most, but I never thought I would be towing so much every week to the Lumber yard.

    abfisch
  • jnazarajnazara Member Posts: 10
    any one have any thoughts on the color,silver pine mica? with the light interior or ,ivory ,grey.or the dark interior combination? haven`t seen one yet..
  • pricecutterpricecutter Member Posts: 49
    Barclay,

    I don't recall all the dealers; you can obtain them on the AAA site if you are a member. I remember calling Newark, NJ, Sloane in PA, and a few others. The responses were the same: we're selling at MSRP. One, I can't recall the name, told me that for internet customers, he was discounting $250 below MSRP. I wasn't impressed.

    Like you, I don't relish the process of car buying. Although I don't know all the details of your car, I think the price you paid doesn't seem terrible. Believe me, in the past I have done a lot worse.
  • abfischabfisch Member Posts: 591
    Hey buddy:

    I have been trying to play the "Bad guy" on this forum but I am getting beat up by fellow brethren Avalon owners and non owners with all the HYPE of the new car without sitting back and letting the leaves fall.

    There are many things that the 05 is and is not. I try to bring out the bad, kinda like Darth Vader. Besides my rule of 5's, never ever buying a NEW MODEL year car, no matter what, these people continue to get caught up in the mix. And, from what I have seen, the host doesn't really welcome negative comments. So much for free speech.

    Not only did they take away my bench seat, but, they took away from sound dampening, towing capacity, still don't have break away mirrors on the side view mirrors, XM antenna is an afterthought, etc.

    I couldn't try to say unless you absolutely need a car, and this is the one, STOP and wait a year or so, till the 06 model comes out and the bugs are gone. Ofcourse, CR's data typically shows, the first model year to be the worst of the five, usually, not always, but usually and Toyota nor Honda is any exception. Look at the new Accord and Subaru posts when the vehicles first came out, andd the problems with brake rotor warpage. Terrible for the first year people.

    Climb aboard. This should get some good responses.

    abfisch
  • pricecutterpricecutter Member Posts: 49
    The car I purchased (LTD) listed options and accessories separately, not as a package: VSC, NAV,Wheel Locks, Remote Starter, Carpet/Trunk Floor Mats.

    Prior to buying the car, I found that the on-line Toyota Brochure (PDF) listed some accessories that you couldn't find on the printed brochures, e.g. license frames of various colors. The salespersons were not aware of the on-line brochure, and I had to provide and excerpt to them for an accessory(license frame) I wanted.
  • abfischabfisch Member Posts: 591
    Another fupa. Very inconvenient. I have an aftermarket Avital remote starter in my 02. Has been working flawlessly, and you get in the car, turn the key, and take the break and it disconnects it. If someone would get in the car, that does not have a key, hit the break or try to put it in gear, it shuts off. No need to start twice. Can program run times. Can program to start in the middle of the night and run for a set time if cold.

    Morale: What are you getting for your money???

    abfisch
  • smith1smith1 Member Posts: 283
    I'll be waiting for the 06's before buying, not because I'm afraid of first year problems, but because I HOPE Toyota will come to its senses and make VSC available on the XL and Touring.
  • abfischabfisch Member Posts: 591
    Smart. Another good reason. I bought an 02 XL which did not have the VSC.. That would have been a nice "a la carte" option which I believe it was in the 03 model, correct me if I am wrong.

    Not terrible missed though, but would have been nice. Use the extra dummy switch for a set of PIAA driving lights so made something out of it.

    What it out and get what you want. The Touring model without the sunroof would interest me the most.

    Good luck.

    abfisch
  • williamtwilliamt Member Posts: 39
    "...whenever I'm driving at any speed and take my foot off the gas it doesn't feel like the car coasts freely."

    Not meaning to insult your intelligence, but could it be that you are putting the transmission in 4th speed (that is, out of overdrive)? With the gate-type shifter, if it's like the Sienna, it is very easy to flip it to the non-overdrive side. Look at the anunciator that shows what drive range you are in. That's sure what it sounds like.
  • ronnronn Member Posts: 398
    Hey bad guys....while we are not trying to bombarde you, this forum is for those of us who are proud of our Avalon, and it is informative for us to learn new things. While new models often have their problems, if you read all the post, you will find very few problems with this car. The Avalon is very awesome..that's why we bought it. Also, Toyota is a great company, and we rely on them if we need help. Please don't continue to tell us that we should wait to buy something. This has been an enjoyable Forum for most all of us, and we are very proud of what we purchased.
    Thanks, RONN
  • ronnronn Member Posts: 398
    This is for you...while many opinons are welcome, I find that there are a few negative responses on the Forum that are not sticking to what this forum is about. This is a Forum that is designed to be helpful for all of us that have purchased the Avalon, or those that are thinking about it. While contrast and opinions are necessary, the majority of us are on here to learn more about what we purchased, and are proud of what we purchased. For those of you that think we should have waited because it is a new model, I find most of us to trust Toyota, and the record it has of qualified customers. The Avalon is a great, fantastic new car for the majority of us on this Forum, and I would like it to stay that way.
  • dan41dan41 Member Posts: 182
    I had planned to trade my 2003 Lexus GS300 for the new 2006 Lexus GS, but after spending a good bit of time with both the new Lexus and the new Avalon Limited, I simply could not justify the cost difference and purchased the Avalon. My new Avalon not only offers as good a ride as my Lexus did, but it beats my Lexus in both technology and looks. This time around, I'm more than OK with giving-up the Lexus nameplate. I feel like I've hit the lottery! Regards: Dan
  • treynardtreynard Member Posts: 12
    I'm certainly not trying to be some sort of "bad guy" by raising some relevant and important questions. I'm not attempting to quash anybody's enthusiasm about the new Avalon ... but I've always thought enthusiasm must be tempered with common sense. What good does it do if everyone acts like a cheerleader and brushes aside legitimate questions and concerns? Ignorance is not bliss! I hope to get better informed by using a reasoned, objective approach to car buying that at times may sound skeptical IF you only want to hear positive things and be insulated from the truth when it is at odds with your beliefs. Skepticism is not cynicism. I wholeheartedly agree that Toyota products are generally excellent. That's why I own both a Toyota and a Lexus. I'm pleased with both ... and that's why I'm considering the new Avalon. Those who would deny others the opportunity to pose honest, even difficult questions are diminishing the value of forums like this one. In my view, this IS the place for hardball questions ... not just cheerleading praise.
    T Reynard
  • ronnronn Member Posts: 398
    Dan...I hit the Lottery too!!! Never had Lexus, but this Avalon is a winner. Thanks for the positive, and often informative info you have shared with us.
    Regards,
    RONN
  • just__mejust__me Member Posts: 508
    You have every right to point out problems that you discover, I have no problem with that.. It's just that you continue to repeat the same thing over and over again which is your right, but after awhile it becomes stale. As far as buying the new model the first year, there was a time that may have been true. That's why lemon laws came into affect. Toyota isn't a company to disappoint you based on my experience and they will fix whatever has to be fixed should there be a problem. They did that with an earlier Avalon I had that wasn't a first year model, and totally satisfied me with a new transmission, not rebuilt, and it was their recommendation not mine. My new Avalon XLS so far is excellent as well as others who have posted here. The mantra of waiting till next year is meaningless and may cost buyers more,and less on a trade in if they have one. Hopefully every one here is a big boy or gal and they are aware and can make their own wise decisions without being told what to do. I believe I came into this forum to learn and share experiences, not to create fear, not to criticize unless it was constructive and meaningful, and to help others as I did Pricecutter when I can. I don't want to be repetitive, so I won't bring this up again to hear myself speak. Pricecutter, your welcome.
  • abfischabfisch Member Posts: 591
    Ronn:

    Come on now. This forum is for all comers, who have Avalons, love Avalons, work on Avalons, etc. It is not for only those who are proud to drive an Avalon. I didn't see that in the title of this forum, but maybe the host can start one, called " Proud Avalon Owners ONLY." For some of us, we have been contributing to this forum since way back in the day, before some would have even considered Avalons. Since some have alot of experience with Avalons, both good and bad, that is what the word FORM brings to mind.

    In addition, I would be very cautious of being a corporate loyalist, Toyota or otherwise.

    The Avalon is a good car and some, who haven't bought an 05 might want one now, might want to wait till the 06, may not want one at all, or might want another vehicle.

    Thanks what makes this FORUM so great. We plan to speak our minds here, unless censored otherwise.

    Perhaps the host would consider another forum for "Happy Avalon Owners ONLY."

    abfisch
  • ronnronn Member Posts: 398
    Just Me...very well said .I have got to get back to work, but I had to comment on this. This forum has been so informative, and I have met so many cool people like you on here. We will all have to have a Avalon Party sometime. Catch you later,

    RONN
  • ronnronn Member Posts: 398
    abfisch...I do understand your point as well. This is a great Forum, I just hope that it can stay informative and have a positive attitude to what most of us think is a great car. I read an earlier post that made me and a few others feel that it was a mistake, that we should have waited. While that is an opinion, we are grown ups who can make decisions, and I wanted a new car this year. Toyota is a great car, and I will always brag and support it.
    If I stepped on your toes, or anyone elses, I'm sorry.. I don't think we need to go to a HAPPY AVALON OWNERS ONLY forum. I think we have it here.
  • just__mejust__me Member Posts: 508
    Thank You Ronn. Catch up with you later.
  • yankeryanker Member Posts: 156
    First Toyota has a reputation for never admitting they are wrong. I found Honda to be better. Second new models do have problems and don't but the first year goes back to the 50's. third any consumer should collect all possible info from wherever he can get it. Avalon is a very good car with overly expensive tires and too much technology that is useless. Also there are some shortcomings in the handling. Nevertheless I would but another one in 2007.
  • future1future1 Member Posts: 103
    "Ronn: this forum is for those of us who are proud of our Avalon"

    Umm, maybe the host can rename this forum to "Toyota Avalon 2005+ Proud Owners" for the promoters and create another one, "Toyota Avalon 2005+" for the consumers.

    On a side note, my dictionary defines pride as "a sense of one's own proper dignity or value; self-respect". I am now thinking that I need to drive an 18-wheeler to boost my sense of dignity. Anything less than that would be disrespectful to myself.
  • iflyx5iflyx5 Member Posts: 14
    Sorry about my email being private. Just changed it so email me if you have any questions.

    A few tips for the DIY'ers:

    1. You don't have to remove the radio to install the XM Y-connector (as specified in the installation guide). Just remove the glove box and reach behind the radio to pull out the harness. It's the 2nd harness from the right side of the radio (bottom of radio). Plug the harness into the Y-harness from the XM cable and plug the other end of the Y-harness connector back into the radio. Wrap the cushion tape around the connectors and tie the XM cable to the chasis behind radio.

    2. You don't have to remove the rear seats to run the XM cable to the trunk. Just remove the doorsill in the rear passenger side and run the XM cable through there, under the rear seats and the access hole into the trunk.

    3. I mount the XM antenna on the middle of the trunk and get excellent reception. I was afraid that its being near the glass of the rear windshield would affect the reception but having been listening for a week, its reception is second to none. However, be noted that you may have some interference depending on where you live. So, don't adhere the antenna to the trunk yet, just leave it on the trunk (it has a magnetic base) until you're satisfied, then remove the adhesive and stick it there permanently.

    4. If you are paranoia about rattles, go to Joann Fabrics or Michaels store and buy a sheet or two of the felt adhesive paper. Then cut it into small rectangular pieces and cover the wires/harness behind the glove box, under the front and rear doorsills, and inside the trunk where the XM cable is routed. Two areas that I put these felt tapes are the doorsill on the front passenger side (below the white plastic clamps) and under the rear passenger's side doorsill.

    Email me if you still have questions. It's frontgear@hotmail.com and make sure your subject has XM radio (or something to that effect) or it will get deleted by hotmail spam detector.
  • gschultz3gschultz3 Member Posts: 134
    It should be obvious that everbody has a different opinion on what a perfect car should be. That is why there are so many different style, sizes, hp, interiors, tires, options, etc and etc. I have no interest in towing, best price or odds I may have 1 or 2 problems because it is the first year. I have purchased many cars and the last major problem I had was over 20 years ago with a T-Bird. Most cars are pretty trouble free with some exceptions. I want every option I can get if it makes any sense at all. Not sure what overly expensive tires are but I don't agree they are on the Avalon. The Avalon LTD meets my needs at a reasonable price. Obviously many people feel the same about Camry's, Civic's, Malibu's, Passat's and Century's and some feel that they got a good deal on a BMW 7 series or a Ford GT. The Avalon is welcome by many but only a small proportion of the total customer base for vehicles. It's a winner for most of us here!
  • iflyx5iflyx5 Member Posts: 14
    See my other reply to bobt2's post :)
  • iflyx5iflyx5 Member Posts: 14
    Don't know if there's a way to run the cable to the backself, but it might interfere with the power sunshade in the Limited version. I chose the middle of the trunk area and it looks good there, imho.
  • iflyx5iflyx5 Member Posts: 14
    The XM Tuner is retailed for $299 at Toyota Parts Counter. I told the clerk I just bought my Avalon this morning and he gave me $60 discount. One-year subscription is $137.68 (including 7% sales tax for FL). I saved about $60 but the greatest satisfaction is that I know I did it right and did it myself. My Limited didn't come with XM from factory and I wouldn't want it that way either because they would mount it on the side of the trunk (passenger's side).
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    so let me see if I can clarify some things.

    >> the host doesn't really welcome negative comments. So much for free speech.

    Edmunds.com is a private entity. There is no such thing as a "right to free speech" here; there is only the Membership Agreement to which you all agreed or you would not be posting.

    With that said, there is nothing wrong with negative comments about the vehicle. If a post complies with the MA, i.e. doesn't attack someone, doesn't use profanity (masked or outright), isn't promoting something for personal gain or something illegal, or is not otherwise in violation of that agreement, it is fine! I'm not sure why you think that I have an issue with negative comments - you should see some of the other discussions I host! ;)

    >> this forum is for those of us who are proud of our Avalon

    Actually, this forum is the place to discuss the Avalon. There is no requirement that everyone here be a proud owner, just as there is no requirement that every post be positive. I realize and very much appreciate how enthusiastic so many folks are about this car, but this discussion is here for everyone to discuss anything they want (within reason, of course) about the Avalon. This includes criticisms. If you bar criticisms, you have to bar them from owners as well. (Which isn't going to happen.)

    >> Those who would deny others the opportunity to pose honest, even difficult questions are diminishing the value of forums like this one. In my view, this IS the place for hardball questions ... not just cheerleading praise.

    This is correct! The only caveat here is that it is always best to use the Search This Discussion feature to look up previous posts on any give topic before asking folks to repeat what's already been posted (the "hardball questions" - or even the "softball" ones).

    >> ... continue to repeat the same thing over and over again which is your right, but after awhile it becomes stale.

    This was said in reference to negative comments, but back up a second and look at it from another angle - it also can be said of positive comments that are repeated over and over.

    See, it doesn't really matter when points are repeated. Some saw them the first time (or six times or whatever) around, others have not. If you've seen something before and it doesn't interest you, it's easy enough to go to the next post without paying attention to it. It can't be okay to post reruns of positive comments if it's not okay to post reruns of negative comments. And if we barred both, we wouldn't have a whole lot left to discuss! ;)

    Now, I don't want you enthusiastic owners to feel like I'm coming down on you, because I don't mean to be doing that at all. Personally, I really enjoy seeing your enthusiasm bubbling up all over the place here and I very much want it to continue.

    I just think some of us need to be careful about defining the rules here, because everyone is welcome, owner or not, enthusiast or not. And most importantly we should recognize that we do not have to read every message posted. We can just skip the ones we find annoying.

    If there are any questions, I'll be glad to discuss this further in email, but I think we need to not sidetrack this conversation any further.

    I hope I've helped ... at least somewhat ... and sorry for the length of this, but I think these things need to be said.

    :)
  • just__mejust__me Member Posts: 508
    Pat, Amen! I mean very well said and admire you for it.
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