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Comments
Even if I bought an M tomorrow, I wouldn't be an early adopter -- I bought my first Nissan iron 3+ decades ago.
Certainly glad to see them come back into prominence. Keep the news coming on the M. I'll join up in a couple or three years.
Reasonable people can disagree on this and I have no problem with your preference. I know a lot of people do agree with you, and I also know a lot of people who agree with me. When it comes to taste, someone once said, there’s no debate. In the interest of full and open disclosure I’ll also admit to being an XM investor, so I may be prejudiced. However I bought the stock because I love the product, and I hope, if you’re a Sirius investor, you’ll say so too.
I’ll respond to some of the factual issues below.
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The only place that commercials appear on Sirius is on the News/Talk stations (and probably the NFL channels), and what better place to have commercials than stations where listeners want to hear someone talking anyway. None of the music stations have commercials. They do promote other Sirius stations, but it's only in a casual mention of probably no more than 3 seconds.
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XM is commercial free on all music channels, same as Sirius. They both sell commercials on all talk, entertainment and sports channels. I do rent cars with Sirius all the time, and I hear many more of those 3 second Sirius promo’s, then I do XM promo’s on XM, and it really does annoy me.
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I completely disagree with the level of repetition on Sirius vs. XM. Sirius has more original content (musical guests, interviews, call ins, etc.), and it's not pre-recorded from network radio stations as quite a few of XM's stations are. Sirius also has some music industry celebrities DJ-ing they're channels.
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There were many very long threads on this subject on the Sirius backstage forum, where Sirius fans were up in arms about the amount of repetition. They have both publicly reported the size of their music library, and the size of their playlists. It was about 10 times deeper with XM, and that’s my personal experience as well. Some of the XM/Sirius comparo's also reported that difference, and preferred XM music. No offense intended there. XM used to get a couple of channels from FM stations, but its been 100% original for over a year now. They also have live in studio recordings all the time, on their live performance channel, and produce a large number of comedy albums from live in-club performances, and play those on their comedy channels.
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I think XM is selected so often because most people have never experienced satellite radio before and, since they advertise to death, XM's all they're vaguely familiar with. You should read all the praise XM gets on the RL board! If they ever had an opportunity to evaluate Sirius, they'd probably change their tunes.
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XM has 3 times as many subscribers, mainly because of much better support from the car companies (more package deals and factory installs), and because Sirius lost two years when they had trouble with chip development. Thus, XM is more than a year ahead technology wise, which is why XM has iPod sized portable units while Sirius doesn’t. Also, as I said before we can disagree on whose music is better. That’s OK.
Also note that XM's integrated navTraffic currently serves 21 different metro areas plus many additional interstates. A great many people are reporting its a great feature when fully integrated with a NAV system, and that will be coming soon to Infiniti.
Pete
Have fun with your car
Pete
Pete, honestly I have not really tried the intelligent cruise control much yet. I have a worry with traffic here in Houston. If I have it on, and someone pulls into my lane too close, will the intelligent cruise control slow me down so much that someone behind me might rear end me. I think it maybe a good feature on the open road with little traffic behind etc, but have not used it in Houston traffic yet. However, I understand from some reading that the radar works even when the intelligent cruise control isnt on and if you are heading for what appears to it to be a collison it loads up the brakes for a fast stop. A good safety feature in my view.
I love this car. It handles and runs great
Regards
John
But you lose some and you win some. The M's won every comparo except the Edmunds comparo. Not bad.
All I know for sure is, I am very happy with my M45 sport and know which cars it will blow off the road as well as do many of the owners of those cars. What really matters to me is I like the car and know it is durable and reliable because all my Infinitis have been.
In trying to figure out the financing approach I have purchased leasewizard to help do the comparisons and figure out the finances. I also purchased some lease quotes.
(Best for the M was 60% residual, .00228 Money Factor, 550 acquisition. 15k mile. - I figure why spend this much money for a car if I am not going to drive it.)
I am a SBF and have often read that we get the worst deals in buying cars so I am doing a lot of research.
I was contacted by a guy from autoleaseconsultants who described an approach to avoid the dealer. There were several incentives such as better lease rates.
Has anyone used this service?
The GS430 is a nice car overall in typical Lexus fashion. It has muted responses and is quiet and comforting. The interior is nicely finished and it is easy to see that the car is well made. The car is pleasant looking inside and out. Possibly, the perfect car for the semi to non-enthusiast. The major problem that I have with the new GS is that it does not provide the driver any feedback what so ever. The car is too quiet and lacks road feel. You can’t hear what the engine is doing and you can't feel what the road is doing, by the response of the steering wheel. The brakes are touchy and the throttle isn’t very responsive. Overall, there is just way too much electronic interference between the driver and the car. Some people may like that, but as a BMW owner I despise it. BMW is in fact starting to go in this wrong direction as well. Mercedes has unfortunately already gone this route.
On the other hand, the M45 Sport was a true surprise. I have never really considered them as a brand before, but ever since the G35 debuted, Infiniti has been on my radar. The M45 Sport is a keen and responsive car to drive. You can hear the engine and feel the road through the steering wheel, much like what you would find in a BMW. But the great thing about the M is its different personalities. If you take it on the highway and it is almost as quiet as the GS, but when you step on the accelerator, you can feel that the car wants to run hard and fast. It is great to be able to test the limits of this car, because stability control can be turned off, which is a blessing unlike the GS. Also, I felt that the interior is just as nice as the GS. In fact, I think that the M has more style and is less bland than the GS. I am one of those few people who likes iDrive, so I like the way that the M's HMI controller works. I don't like touchscreens, which the GS has, because they get dirty and greasy looking quickly. I like cars with personality, and the M has plenty of it. The fact that it looks great on the outside doesn’t hurt.
I basically came to the conclusion that the M speaks to you and the GS doesn’t so much. The GS is a great car to get from point A to point B, but it doesn’t give you anything in return. It is just well thought-out transportation. The M can get you from point A to point B in the same fashion, but it will speak back to you and give you something to smile about. It can be fast and agile or quiet and serene. You can get the best of both worlds in my opinion.
When you say XM's navTraffic is coming soon to Infinity, do you mean only new cars will get it, or will it be able to work the the Nav system on the existing 2006 M45 (after some sort of software upgrade)?
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It will probably require some more hardware, such as a data link from the XM receiver to the NAV system, and possibly an updated receiver. (Though they may both currently be on a bus that can handle this, I'm guessing no.) It's also possible that such an upgrade would eventually be offered to people who buy now, but honestly, it's much more likely that it won't
In that sense, the poster who said it may be a moot point relative to a current purchase could be right.
Pete
I have not really tried the intelligent cruise control much yet. I have a worry with traffic here in Houston. If I have it on, and someone pulls into my lane too close, will the intelligent cruise control slow me down so much that someone behind me might rear end me.
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John
I understand your concern, and if you're talking about using intelligent cruise control on city streets, then I agree it's a bad idea.
If you're reluctant to use it on a highway which is moving along fairly well, but with heavy traffic, I hope that at some point you'll give it a chance to show you what it can do. It seems to me that it does a very good job of braking and accelerating as I would, but just a bit more smoothly. My wife really prefers that smoother approach, when she's sitting next to me.
Pete
Can't wait for a test between a Mercedes and a Lexus and an M and a BMW or perhaps the M35x and the A6 3.2.
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The reviewer from USA today said he felt the new M was what the BMW should have been, and that he prefers the M to BMW, mercedes, and the GS. He said the M makes BMW and Mercedes irrelevant. (The GS comparison appeared a week later)
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2005-03-17-m-series_x.htm
There's an 8 car comparison (sport sedans < $55k) in the May issue of Car and Driver: The M45 Sport, Acura RL, Audi A6 4.2, BMW 530i, Cadillac STS V8, Jaguar S-type 4.2, Lexus GS430 and the Mercedes E350.
The conclusion of the article:
"The M45 ROCKS! Game Over"
http://secure.grubbs.com/cardriver.pdf
There was also a V6 comparo that the M won, I think from motor trend.
Pete
0-60
MT May 2005 M45 Sport = 5.7
Quarter
MT May 2005 M45 Sport = 14.1 at 98.8
Slalom
MT May 2005 M45 Sport = 63.8 mph
- Ray
Unable to locate an M45 Sport with no options anywhere . . .
What is leasewizard? And why did you need to buy lease quotes? Did you pay to lock in a rate? I know of private lease companies that don't work with car dealerships - you can run some figures at
http://www.leasecompare.com/ and see how their rates compare with what the dealership lease companies are offering. I also know another company that does this, but you need to call or e-mail them the car info (year, model, price, etc) and then they e-mail you back. The leascompare site allows you to enter it right there on the computer without giving personal info.
Thanks
We have lots of leasing information right here. There are a lot of articles on http://www.edmunds.com and there are leasing discussions on our Smart Shopper board. On that board, Car_Man hosts Lease Questions - Ask Here and will tell you just about anything you need to know.
Hope this helps. Good luck!
Here is plenty of education:
http://www.abs-education.org/ishs/techindex.html
As far as I know there is no off switch for the stability programs (even if they claim they have an off switch, most off switches merely disable portions of the electronics); and, there is no off switch for the AWD system either. The system is generally RWD biased and can shift power from essentially 0/100 to 50/50 (Front Rear %).
These systems, as the URL above will indicate are getting better and better all the time. Don't leave home without them!
Not that I have heard of everything, no way.
Turning it off allows me to do donughts in the winter on snow covered parking lots, with the thing on, the car just doesn't want to break the tail loose.
Every comparo so far has put the M in the lead and the RL and / or the GS both in the top three.
The Audi actually beat the BMW -- both in value and performance from where I sit. I thought that was amazing -- cause even with the new 5's 6 cyl engine, the Audi could be had with a V8 for "less money."
Of course the fact that the BMW seems to lease for less money is backwards, but I don't wish to go down that path any more.
I am "this close" to an "M": -- bye bye Audi.
We should definitely schedule a party!
Only one way to find out for sure ..... but do you really want to find out while test driving a $50k+ car?
Thanks
Having driven the 530i and both A6's (V6 and V8), I can say that the M35x's acceleration is definitely more comparable to the BMW than the Audi, in that it is more explosive. It is faster than the Bimmer and the A6 3.2, and for all intents and purposes, it's just as fast as the A6 4.2.
Check out the M45 for neck snapping starts.
- Car and Driver's initial M45 Sport Test.
Cheers,
- Ray
Thinking there'd be few times I'd want to try this on public roads . . .
I predict you wife will win out.
One minor concern is this keyless thing. I expect Infiniti handles this quite well, but I feel I must ask if anyone has any experience with the security of this device.
Since it transmits all the time, could some high tech person hang around a dealer with a super-sniffer and record/clone key codes? I know the car's antennas have a 31" radius, but a high tech guy could build a directional antenna, increasing this radius by a lot.
Does anyone have any idea as to how many combinations of codes this system has? I expect someone could build a brute-force transmitter that tries lots of them. Hopefully, his finger would get tired pressing the button on the door.
Is this I shouldn't worry about? or, is there a higher reason to get lojack?
Thanks,
~~~~_/)~~~~
Norm
The comparison I was refering to was indeed the Edmunds one.
On Sunday March 27th I tried to use the bluetooth technology to make a phone call and all the audio in my car was gone.
I brought the car to infiniti on Monday to find out that the Amplifier was no good and needed to be replaced.
Just wondering if anyone else has had this problem?
A nice cold beer or a good chewy Chianti or Cab will be fine -- no bubby necessary.
I'm curious about the reasons you and your wife have for narrowing the choice to these two cars. I've driven a 98 GS for some time now, as well as having kept previous cars for quite a while, also.
My husband was quite impressed by the M35 and I have tried to like it (I have driven it twice) But I keep coming back to the GS.
The only time I can recall telling the driving wheels of a car recently was the Acura TL which has so much torque steer it was way way obvious (that it was FWD).
If time and money were no object, the A6 4.2 with a sport package would probably be a sweeet car to own if one did not have to feed it.
I heard the dire predictions of a gasoline price FLOOR of $3.00 and a reasonable expectation of $5.00 this decade. Who knows?
Hydrogen power anyone?
M35 - 49 cars
M35 Sport - 118 cars
M35 AWD - 39 cars
M45 - 81 cars
M45 Sport - 106 cars
Infiniti expects to sell alot of M45s (47.5% of the total). I'm not sure what car that offered both a V6 and V8 engine as choices expected to sell that large of a percentage of V8s. I vaguely remember reading that Lexus anticipated over 80% of their sales for the GS were going to be the GS 300. Infiniti also expects more people to choose the Sport version over the Non-sport version. At this price range I would expect a larger number of luxury buyers (i.e. like me .... a little bit more mature) as compared to the boy-racers who just have to have the Sport model - IMHO.
~~~~_/)~~~~
Norm
Didn't care for the dash. Looked too busy and cluttered.
Also, did not care for the rosewood-too light-toned and cheap looking in my opinion. Looked more like a cardboard inlay.
Had trouble finding a comfortable resting place for my left foot.
I am 6'2" and front seat went far enough back but the left foot thing is a serious issue for me. I wonder if anyone else encountered this problem? Richcream?
The rest is all positives:
I liked hearing the engine when I accelerated.
The steering was very well-weighted and the car went through the turns in full control.
After sharp turns, the car recovered nicely into straight-line motion.
Rode over crude dirt roads and the well-tuned suspension handled it all just fine.
The sunroof had a very wide opening, unlike the GS430.
The trunk opening was more conventional unlike the GS430 which is way too narrow.
The handsome, macho exterior screams "performance!"
In sum, the best Japanese driving experience for me and that's from a BMW guy.
Next week I drive the 545. Won't matter what I think-it's probably out of my price range anyway!
As to the stability control, I think the M's switch only turns off the computer integration of the ABS, traction control, and (I think) the brake-force distribution. I do not think it turns traction control off (and certainly not ABS). However, it is usually suggested to NOT use traction control in deep snow, so maybe it does turn this off, as there is no other switch for this alone.
If you're reluctant to use it on a highway which is moving along fairly well, but with heavy traffic, I hope that at some point you'll give it a chance to show you what it can do. It seems to me that it does a very good job of braking and accelerating as I would, but just a bit more smoothly. My wife really prefers that smoother approach, when she's sitting next to me.
Pete
Thanks Pete, I will give it a try tomorrow. The autobahn here in Houston I drive to work is full of traffic but I will go in early and try it in a clear spot. I mentioned in an earlier post that my wife wasnt wild about the M45 sport but she drove it today and is wild about it now. She likes speed and handling, she drives a G35 coupe, but for some reason felt the M was not as nice as my 2002 Q because it is slightly noiser and firmer ride. But after driving, she is totally sold on the M as the more fun car to drive.
Regards
John
Hmmm, let's see, the spouse is driving a red sports car-- who is having the mid-life crisis in this family? :shades:
:P
We next went to test drive an A6 thinking that this is probably what we would eventually buy since we've been driving Audis since 1983. I managed to run in to an idiot saleperson at the dealer. When we asked to test drive the A6 he said that he was too busy at the moment and asked if we could make an appointment to come back later. We said that we'd come back another time.
Since we had some time and the Infinity dealer was just down the street I suggested that we take a look. We ran in to a great salesman who spent a lot of time with us and we took an M35 for a long test drive. I was very impressed by the car but my wife felt intimidated by "all the technology". I
About a week later we went back to the Audi dealer and found a different salesperson who took us for a test drive. I really like the fit and finish of Audis but I really expected more from the new A6. There was a noticeable hesitation on acceleration and, compared to the M, it didn't handle as well. I also think I would have to get the 4.2 in the Audi and that would make the cost significantly higher.
Next we went to drive the E350. We both really liked it but ruled it out based on the fact that we didn't think it was worth the extra $ over the Infiniti M once you get it optioned and the reliability is suspect. Since we keep cars for typically at least 10 years this becomes a factor. Also the options on the E are priced very high. For instance, satellite radio for the E is $800 instead of the $400 most other makes charge. By the time you get an E optioned similarly to an M35 with journey and technology packages your up over $60k.
At this point we had not considered the GS but my wife spoke with here sister who is a finance manager for Lexus at a dealer in Florida. She suggest that we look at the new GS so we did. My wife really liked it based on it being quiet and having a less intimidating dashboard, at least in her opinion. She also liked a grey leather interior which we can't get in the M without the sport package. I thought the steering was "numb", lacked any road feel, and that the back seat was too cramped, similar to the RL. I couldn't sit in the back for too long because of the lack of foot room. There was also very little head room front and rear. It's a nice car but I simply can't get excited about it. Since this will be primarily my wife's car her opinion carries more weight.
If it were up to me only, I'd buy the M. We may still do that because she seems to be on the fence after going back to take another look at the M and drive one with the sport package. (We've ruled out the sport based on the noise and stiffer ride.)
In the end it may come down to price. My wife is very "deal" conscious and the Lexus dealer seems much more interested in negotiating on a GS than the Infinity dealer does on the M. My sister-in-law is coming to visit in May so we may get her to negotiate for us. She says that by then the Lexus dealers will be willing to deal.
My personal comparison of the two cars:
The Infinity M35 handles better, is more powerful, has a lower sticker cost comparably equipped, has much better back seat room, has more head room front and back, has a better trunk size (especially the opening), and simply feels more spacious even though it is actually only about 2 inches longer, an inch narrower, and 3 inches taller than the GS.
The GS is less noisy, gets better gas mileage, and may have fewer repair problems.
The interesting thing is that, while the Lexus sticker is almost $4000 higher than the M35 the way we want it equipped, the dealer cost of the two are within $80. The Lexus dealer has already offered $1800 off the sticker and indicated he might be willing to go more. The best offer from Infinity so far is $500. My sister-in-law thinks she can get us a much better deal on either car in May. If Infinity is still being stubborn by then we may just end up with the GS. We are in no hurry. I can wait a few months to save a few $k.