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Comments
Marketing...Making Prius even harder/longer to get in favor of a higher margin more "desireable" vehicle.
PR........SUVs have a bad name, a (plentiful)hybrid RX will get Toyota some very good PR.
Battery.....might be in limited supply.
Marketing, again.........Early forecasts may indicate a dip in Prius sales once the RX is out, a very likely scenario IMMHO.
Componentry.....Each RX AWD will use at least two (unique) electric motors, four if the forecasts are correct, which I very much doubt.
The bad news is the $2000 credit won't happen. But those who believe in the magic of the marketplace have to acknowledge that this subsidy distorts the market and is unnecessary in light of the high demand for the product anyway.
Tax gasoline instead. Create a natural demand for fuel efficient vehicles. Use the money to improve roads, so everyone benefits.
Can you imagine how much power OPEC would lose if even 1/4 of us hopped into hybrids?
-juice
This subsidy on hybrids may distort the market, but if this subsidy for cars that save on gas is a bad idea, then even more so the tax subsidy on the gas-guzzling large SUVs, a subsidy that distorts the market for these vehicles also.
I'd buy a Prius even without the tax break, but some people (like some posters on this board) have expressed that the price of the Prius is a little too high for them to justify buying one. If a tax break helps them buy a hybrid instead of a conventional car, and they use lots less gas in the bargain, isn't that a benefit to all of us that is worth an investment in tax dollars?
Re the RX story and delays in Prius production, I don't know why the sales rep would be lying, as it would not benefit him to do so. My order is cancellable at any time, and my deposit is fully refundable (actually, there is no deposit, only a "paper" one). I already told him I would be coming in to place my order next week, so he had the deal sown up. It was actually to his advantage to have me come in next week and swipe my credit card, instead of taking the number over the phone. If they swiped it, they would actually take the $500 deposit out of it. I think he was trying to help me make sure I got my car when I need it, by getting ahead of a few more people in line. I guess we'll know in a few months if he was on the level or not.
To each his own. some of us want that to go through.
But those who believe in the magic of the marketplace have to acknowledge that this subsidy distorts the market and is unnecessary in light of the high demand for the product anyway.
It can only increase demand. As the tax credit drummed up interest in the car. Word of no tax credit had my interested friends all shrug and say, I'll just wait until the car has real vehicle performance then.
That's a few lost sales among tree huggers I know.
I don't know why the sales rep would be lying, as it would not benefit him to do so.
A sale today is how it benefits him. Or at least getting you locked into not looking with a deposit. Salesguys lie and to believe he's your bud or honest is exactly what he wants from you - his mark.
My order is cancellable at any time, and my deposit is fully refundable (actually, there is no deposit, only a "paper" one). I already told him I would be coming in to place my order next week, so he had the deal sown up. It was actually to his advantage to have me come in next week and swipe my credit card, instead of taking the number over the phone. If they swiped it, they would actually take the $500 deposit out of it. I think he was trying to help me make sure I got my car when I need it, by getting ahead of a few more people in line.
No, he's trying to get a few things:
1. You're waiting on his Prius and not looking elsewhere.
2. His lie helped push you to make the decision sooner - "wait a few months and supply will dry up because of the RX"
3. He knows the car will come in and if you are serious, he's got a nice commission coming his way.
I guess we'll know in a few months if he was on the level or not.
5 will get you ten that he was not anywhere near the level. They never are. Nothing against salesguys as people, they simply use whatever techniques they can to get you to buy. In this case it was fear and his offer of security.
Who says I'm not? ;-) With a fully refundable deposit, but my place in line assured, I am now free to check out other dealers to see if I can get a better deal, and even consider other vehicles as I wait.
You're free to do that but the reality of car sales reveals most people who place an order on a vehicle stop looking for another purchase.
We are enthusiasts and don't really reflect the general mass market that well.
-juice
autonet.ca/DriverSource/stories.cfm?storyID=10149 - 44k
p.s. I've found that cold weather and a short commute slays economy; <40mpg!
Have they began their move yet to the larger location?
Burnsville Toyota, which is just 10 minutes south of Walser, has. Their new showroom and new service will be enormous.
With 2 dealers so close, both heavily endorsing Prius, we are going to see lots of them all over the place by the time the snow finally melts away. YEAH!
JOHN
Reduced efficiency is a reality with all vehicles types, not just Prius.
If you have a longer commute, like me, you'll be thrilled. With average driving temperatures at about 40F for me now, the Multi-Display is showing a glorious 50.5 MPG! But of course, with over 62,000 miles of hybrid driving experience under my belt, I know a trick or two for getting that number of there.
JOHN
As for short commute, I am about 6 miles from work so it sounds like I won't see those great MPG numbers anytime soon. I am hoping to get at least 45MPG for my mixed driving between work and play. Once spring and summer gets here, I hope to increase those numbers to 50MPG.
I was a little surprised that Walser offered a discount on the Prius. With most dealers charging at or near list, $500 off seemed pretty good. They also provide a "bonus" package on every car with some freebies like a gas discount card - won't need that much, will I? ;-) - and a couple of minor glass/body repairs. I have been impressed by their service so far also--very responsive to my query through Edmunds.com, accomodating on a test drive, and even after I placed my order the sales rep told me to come in anytime I want to take a drive in their demo cars. So looks like I'll be a Toyota owner again after being away for 20 years, when I traded my beloved '82 Celica GT Liftback.
Re the warrantee - you have until the end of either the 1st year or 3 year to purchase the toyota extended plan. My guess is that they will discount below the 980 they offered me (and told me it was negotiable) if you call around a few months after you buy the car. DO NOT BUY WHEN YOU"RE SITTING THERE WAITING TO DRIVE AWAY YOUR NEW PRIUS.
1)Difficult to fill with gas -keeps shutting off gas nozzle after adding only 0.1 gal - - takes forever to add 8 gallons. Toyota engineers have looked at my car and are pondering the problem.
I've talked to two other owners with same problem.
2.Very wind sensitive. i.e. poor directional stability in a crosswind. I think this is a byproduct of aerodynamic design which puts center of pressure and center of mass too far from each other.
3.The navigation system is great if only I could figure out how to use all its features. My Los Angeles area dealer and his service personnel don't have a clue. I have a navigation system in my Acura and it's much easier to learn to use.
a little inflated as compared to normal non-hybrid vehicles. I have noticed this
quite often with the Honda Civic Hybrid and the Prius where real world
MPG are way below that of non-hybrid vehicles.
For instance I had a 94 Honda Civic VX hathchback that was rated at 52 MPG average and
I indeed averaged that and in some cases surpassed that figure.
Currently I have a 2003 Jetta TDI (Diesel) wagon 5-speed that averages 55 MPG yet it
is EPA rated at 45 MPG.
Just my thoughts
Alster 2
I'd be interested in hearing from John who had a 2001 and now has a 2004. How is your mileage comparison driving over similar conditions? Does the '04 show substantial improvement??
That would lead me to believe it is a local hardware problem. Try a different gas provider. There nozzles are likely to be different.
JOHN
The 2004 does better. I suspect the efficiency will average about 5 MPG higher once the 10,000 mile break-in is complete.
JOHN
___Not to add fuel to the fire but let’s give the 04 Prius the benefit of the doubt until someone has placed 10,000 + miles on one. My 03 Corolla didn’t really zoom up in hwy mileage until ~ 20,000 miles. Around that point in time, I also was upping tire pressures, switched to Mobil1 synthetic, and began to rethink my hwy driving techniques as I was educated by the game gauge in the 03 Acura MDX. Even the Acura took about 5,000 miles before the mileage shut up well beyond EPA specs for hwy driving. Give the 04 Prius’ combined actual experienced mileage some time given Toyota’s appear to have a slightly different out of the box experience in terms of mileage then the Honda owners may have experienced.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
50 MPG in their controlled city test the published figures are 45 MPG City. The Same
vehicle now going through the EPA controlled Highway test that receives 60 MPG during
that controlled test the published figure is 47 MPG.( note 10% City and 22% Hwy downrated)
So with this in mind the 2004 Prius that received 51 Hwy did actually receive 62 Hwy in
the actually controlled EPA Test. 60 MPG City was actually 66 MPG during the EPA
city test.
Alster 2
"EPA mpg test doesn't work for hybrids"
Toyota says it would prefer to let consumers know that their actual mileage for its Prius hybrid-electric vehicle will fall short of the official rating. But they can't because government won't let them.
Interesting...
FWIW, it seems like Toyota is being up-front about it.
-juice
- Mark
On the other hand, didn't Edmunds' Tribute get 14mpg on one tank? It shouldn't be a big surpise that people aren't getting 60mpg.
-juice
Once I hit 50 MPG on freeway driving in Idaho and Montana. 45 MPG wasn't unusual for mostly highway driving.
Typical mixed driving was usually 35-40 MPG. That's in Colorado, where it does get cold in the winter, and with ehtanol additives from about November through February. There was some noticeable drop off then, but that was probably offset by not using the AC. There was one hill I frequently climbed where I'd turn off the AC for a little extra power.
While the VX had a 1.5 liter engine, and HP either in the 90s or just over 100, it weighed just over 2000 pounds, so was faster than one might expect.
If I ever go for a high-MPG vehicle the Prius would be a candidate. But I'd also consider a used VX, or perhpas even a CR-X if I could find one in good shape/low mileage.
This is a good cautionary tale to all of us with cars on order. Make sure all the terms are spelled out in writing, e.g. what happens if a car comes in that is close to what you want, but not quite. Also the terms by which the deposit is refundable. My order specifies the only car that is acceptable is a Package 3, in one of 3 color choices.
1) They gave me two key fobs, but from the owner's manual, I am suppose to get one fob with chrome Toyota emblem and one fob with a black Toyota emblem. However, both of my fobs shows chrome emblems. Anyone else got the fobs like I did?
2) I did not find any "valet cards" in the center console.
3) After I got home, I found two rubber plugs in the glove box with instruction for the pre-delivery "inspector" to install. The instruction states "Insert these rubber plugs into the holes of the center floor side member extensions." Fortunately, there is a picture/diagram of where these wholes are. I guess the pre-delivery "inspector" forgot to install these. Anyone else ran across these?
4) When I picked up the car, I noticed a total of 2 miles on it. Took her for a quick spin around the block and took delivery with 6 miles on her. I did noticed that when I was doing the quick test drive prior to signing all the papers, the battery indicator was one bar from full. When I drove home, it dipped to 2 bars below full but quickly recovered to 1 bar below full.
Well, that's it for now. I will have to explore the car some more and see if I come up with anything else. One happy camper signing
out...Tony.
P.S. I was "jeep2jetta" but I am now a Prius man...Ohh Yeahh!