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Comments
Pretty big assumption. Diesel may give hybrids a run for their money, since they are long mature, present in Europe, and only awaiting low sulfer diesel over here... and they can run on renewable bio fuel.
More info is available on the Hybrid discussions about diesel vs hybrid...
Anything other than this will be deleted. Please post general comments on the Toyota Prius in the main Toyota Prius discussion. Comments about diesel, hybrid v. diesel go in the Hybrid v. Diesel discussion.
Thanks.
http://www.fiscallygreen.ca/experience.html
On another note, I just read the Escape Hybrid article on familycar.com and I was disappointed to see that the A/C compressor is run by the engine. That's a shame since Toyota has proven it can be done without using the engine.
Solara convertible? Is it that special white mist color?
Thanks,
Rich
Prius is clearly leading the hybrid r/evolution.
We finally have enough data to show the "around 50 MPG" expectation is realistic for normal driving.
I've got almost 3,000 miles on my high-traction tires, so we have a already have an upgrade recommendation available.
The 2005 packages have been announced. They are simply the 6 most popular of the 2004 choices.
We know the allocation for the United States will be increased from 47,000 to 80,000. So even though there will be more Prius, the demand will still be struggling with supply.
The wheels are in motion now. So it just a matter of waiting for the momentum to grow. HSD is destined for mainstream acceptance in the vehicle of your choice. In the meantime, local mass-production needs to be established to make that happen and drive the costs down. Long-Term data must be collected too; that requires time (and patience).
We can find entertainment in the panic to catch up, from those automakers totally caught off guard by the success hybrids have been demonstrating. The anti-hybrid articles do have that aspect of "history in the making", where we will later look back and chuckle at the comments some people made. Prius is just about to begin production year 8. At this point, it should be rather clear that Toyota's commitment to HSD is quite serious.
JOHN
We know the allocation for the United States will be increased from 47,000 to 80,000. So even though there will be more Prius, the demand will still be struggling with supply.>>
I had originally logged onto the waiting list in April; was told "four months." Called dealer about two weeks ago - "another four months - November."
Sheesh - I'm getting antsy! The good news - I'll get a 2005. I asked for package three; I hope that's one of the six. Are there any detail differences expected in the 2005 compared to the 2004?
JPrice
Just as a meager request. John, have you kept track of complaints here? Reliability/quality only, not MPG. I honestly can't remember any. Much different that any GM board.
And if GM is loaded with complaints, what the heck does that have to do with Prius? Toyota always scores higher in reliability anyway. In fact, that's why they've had the #1 selling sedan in the US for years (Camry). And that same expertise was used to create the #1 selling hybrid too.
Building a vehicle from scratch allowed Toyota to move beyond some traditional problems. They chose to invest heavily, allowing the engineers & mechanics to use a brand new toolset despite the enormous cost of doing that. It is obviously paying off.
If you are disappointed that there are only a handful of problems with Prius, too bad.
JOHN
jprice- Hang in there and sign up at other dealers if you haven't done so already. I'm happy you will be getting an '05.
Thanks,
Rich
Last week they called to offer me an available model, Package 7 with leather seat & carpet mats as requested, but in white not Red. I said yes, and took delivery on August 12th. IT IS GREAT.
It did have the Toyoguard package (which is really worth about 1/3 of the 699 list price), a Rear bumber protecter (158) and self dimming mirror (299).
So I paid list price for the model + options and accessories as noted. The dealer didn't try to get anything other than the standard list prices (available on edmunds), and a 500 dealer service fee, which I know they typically try to add to all vehicles sold and claims it covers administrative fees, their "tires for life" programs and free loane cars during service. They did not try to add any other type of surcharge, which seems prevalent in other regions.
Total Price, before sales tax and registration, 26,284. With other vehicles (such as the Sienna I bought last year) it is possible to make an honest negotiation and bargain. I did not try with the Prius, since I was happy to avoid the other ripoffs that seem common. If anyone in Florida is looking for a Toyota (Prius or any other) I recommend getting a quote from Deland.
I also admit that, in addition to the price above, I decided to purchase a 7 year bumper to bumper warranty. This was not any part of the negotiation of price, only added at the final process. Although I have declined these warranties in the past, I was influenced by the complicated electrpnics in the Prius, and a very bad experience with Warranty Gold on a previous vehicle.
John, I'm sorry that you misunderstood my question to mean that I was anticipating problems. I thought that my statement regarding the lack of post meaning there must not be many was sufficient. Again, my comment/question was that I'm not seeing any complaints concerning quality anywhere on here, right? That in itself is a pretty good testament to the car. Regardless of the car company, lack of complaints is a good thing.
My mention of GM was simply a remark because now that I only own Toyota products I definitely see a change of tone between the two companies. Regardless of the fact that you may already know this beyond compare, it was my way of complementing Toyota.
If only he would have had it a few days earlier.
On the trip to Portland I was using the cruise control to maintain a constant speed and hopefully thereby obtain the best fuel economy. What I noticed was that the Batteries would get to the "topped off" level and it was then as if a "switch" had been thrown which caused the batteries to be used needlessly. That cycle seemed to occur about 4 times during the ~160 mile trip.
Since there was, obviously, no significant level of brake application the system could not recharge the batteries using the regenerative braking system. Except maybe to simulate engine drag with the throttle lifted, something I have since learned the vehicle will do.
I have since bought an 03 Prius and purchased the shop manuals with the intention of finding a way to tell the system that I'm going to be cruising so don't use the batteries in any manner because the only method for recharging them will be via a extra load on the ICE. That extra load on the ICE to recharge the batteries results in a net loss and is likely the reason the hwy fuel economy is so inordinately low in comparison to city.
wwest
----- Original Message ----- are you the person that said this?
"“We got more like 37 miles per gallon, but we’re in cold weather and that tends to affect it,” said WWest, a business owner in Seattle who owns a 2002 Prius. “And on a trip to Portland, we had to recharge the battery four times. I guess you could say we’re not pleased with it.” "
http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0403/29/a01-106310.htm
If so, please answer a question for me. I am on a waiting list for a 2004 Prius and have done very significant research into the vehicle. Your quote "we had to recharge the battery four times" is puzzling. The Prius does not allow the battery to fall much below 50% charge before the gasoline engine kicks in to top it off. The only way to completely discharge the battery (which severely shortens its life) is to run the tank out of gas and force the car to run on electric. Was your statement taken out of context? What did you really mean? The way the article reads you had to stop 4 times and plug the car in to charge the batteries and that's just not possible!
I appreciate you taking time to read this and clarify that quote.
Sincerely,
John Doe
Columbus, OH
I'm just finishing up a 2+ week / multi-thousand mile test drive with a 2004 Prius, which i decided to rent from Specialty Rentals in San Francisco. They are one of the few rental companies who actually have these cars, and it's a really good way to try 'em out.
I'm not an 'expert' on these cars (i don't know all the options, packages, etc..) so I'll just focus on my experience with it, hopefully this will be of use to someone.
For reference, my permanent family rides are two subaru legacies (1996, 2003), and a 2002 Lexus ES300.
The Prius i rented was apparently minimally optioned. (no nav system, no cruise control.)
Even so, I was impressed by the level of equipment and interior -- much of the switchgear from my ES300 is used in the prius, and the whole thing felt really tightly screwed together. The interior space was also suprisingly large. Again, it felt roomier than the legacy up front, and almost as 'big' as the ES300. Anyone who compares this car to the Echo or Corolla is really off-base. It really feels like a small lexus.
It also was able to hold more cargo than my legacy sedan. It held myself, my wife and our luggage for a 2-week honeymoon without a problem. Knocking the rear seats down allowed us to even buy more stuff as the trip went on.
The startup procedure was a little weird (insert the "key", hit start, etc.) A couple of valets were perplexed, most handled it OK.
The steering felt a little disconnected -- almost 'electric', and quite similar to the ES300. Don't know if they share any common parts. It took a few miles to get used to at first, but then felt natural.
The car handled better than i thought it would. It handled flat in corners, probably equal to the legacy in that regard, and leagues better than the ES300.
On the highway, it was quieter than the legacy with good isolation from wind & road noise.
It had more spunk than I thought it would. 0-60 was i think quoted as 10 seconds or so, but the reality was from 0-30 or 0-40 it felt even really fast. I guess the torque of the electric motor had something to do with that.
My "test drive" occurred all over the bay area, from monterey all the way up to mendocino. En toto, it was over 1,000 miles of driving in both urban stop-and-go and highway situations (not to mention temperature extremes of 90F down to 50F and through mountanous regions.)
I reset the odometer for my large one-day drive from monterey to mendocino, which included a 10-mile portion through downtown san francisco. This leg of the trip was 275 miles total, and remarkably -- the Prius returned 51.8 MPG!! My total so far over the entire trip is 50.8 MPG, which to me is surprisingly good considering the varied conditions that the car has had to cope with.
Someone (maybe on these boards?) wrote that cars have pretty much become 'fast enough'. That is, that the modern automobile is now powerful enough to handle any sort of terrain that it is likely to encounter in the US. After > 1000 miles in the Prius through some prety hilly terrain, I concur.
I never felt the Prius was lacking for power or was "unsafe". The fact that it returned >50mpg with two passengers and a carload full of stuff is to me a revelation. I did not expect the milage to be that high.
Now, the two down-sides --
* First problem, the car didn't track well on the highway in windy weather. it tended to get blown around a bit.
* Next problem:
When i picked up my prius from the rental company it only had 4,000 miles on it. Unfortunately, about 1/2 way through my trip, when I was on the pacific coast highway in big sur (beautiful place, but the middle of nowhere), for no apparent reason, the windshield developed a large crack, starting at the top-middle, growing right down the midpoint of the windshield in a matter of seconds. There was *no* stone-strike, and no obvious impacts whatsoever on the windshield. it just decided to grow a crack, starting from the very top-edge of the windshield.
I pulled off immediately to see what was going on. The crack couldn't be felt from the outside or inside, it was almost like the two panes that make up the windshield had internally split or something. On the advice of the rental agency, i kept driving the car (there was no safety issues, as it wasn't directly in my line of sight.) The crack didn't grow.
Frankly, i'm a little dismayed by this windshield crack in a nearly brand-new car. It's the first time i've experienced anything like this in 20+ years of driving. I'm not sure if this is a design defect or manufacturing defect, but whatever it is, i'm wondering if anyone has experienced anything like it in their prius?
Those were the only issues. Otherwise, the car was great. My next car will be a hybrid, and hopefully by the time i'm ready to buy, there will be plenty to choose from.
I am puzzled though by your comment about the car having no cruise control. Cruise is supposed to be standard on the Prius. It's controlled by a little stalk sticking out of the steering wheel at about 4 o'clock--same control as on some other Toyotas. That stalk wasn't there?
Also, regarding the car feeling as if it has "electric" steering: it does! :-)
My question is: What PSI the tires were set too? Too soft or not having the proper front-bias does affect the way the car behaves & feels.
And yes, the windshield crack was a fluke. No one else with a 2004 has ever reported that.
HSD will be available in all passenger vehicles Toyota offers by 2010. So you should have plenty of choices when you are ready to purchase.
JOHN
the windshield issue was really interesting, i hope it was a fluke. the big sur region of california exposes the car to a large change in altitudes & temperatures over the course of a few miles. you go from 90 degree temps down into the 50s in a matter of a few miles. Perhaps that had something to do with the crack.
Other than that, the car was great. Toyota just needs to boost production as quick as they can to prevent gouging. at $21k, this car is a steal.
Sorry for inconvenience.
Like many have said, you dont save much money by driving a hybrid at this $2 per gallon. I think many buying Prius because of its style and unique style. And this lead to my question, will prius continue to have it unique style in the future? Or it may blend into camry, corolla..etc, and prius will no longer exist.
For some people, they may like camry with hybrid, because it is bigger and more powerful. How about have a prius III with its unique style but bigger and more powerful,instead of make other toyota becomes hybrid?
It is the only hatchback available in Toyota's entire US fleet and obviously much better equipped than the overseas Echo hatchback. It's bigger too, fitting right between Corolla & Camry.
One of Toyota's goals is to increase marketshare. Killing a popular car would do exactly the opposite, especially one that offers an interface that still isn't stuck in the 20th Century.
Corolla-Hybrid will offer more of an traditional & lower cost approach. Camry-Hybrid will scarific some efficiency for increased power (towing ability). Prius will remain unique among those future offerings.
JOHN
It is the only hatchback available in Toyota's entire US fleet and obviously much better equipped than the overseas Echo hatchback. It's bigger too, fitting right between Corolla & Camry.
Isn't the matrix a hatchback?
The roof is flat, not tapered.
The rear door is vertical, not horizontal.
It is a clearly wagon.
JOHN
The rear door is vertical, not horizontal.
It is a clearly wagon.
You're right.
The Celica is the hatchback.
the offer of a $300.00 reimbursement for the increase in MSRP.. If you take delivery of a 2005 Prius Toyota offers a $700.00 reimbursement provided you take delivery by March 31, 2005. This, of course, hinges on the fact that you have one on order prior to March 10,2004.
All you out there that have an order for a 2004 Prius dated before March 10, 2004 and been waiting for your Prius should be getting the letter.
___I will disagree with you on the need for a rear wiper on a hatch. It does snow and it does rain. The rear wiper on the Insight is a god send in many cases while driving her through these 2 conditions. In fact, I don’t know how you could go without a rear wiper with a hatchback because you will drive through these 2 conditions at some point and you can see far better with a recently wiped rear hatch window then one that can never be cleared of rain drops, snow, and even dust.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
But - what about the wait list we hear so much about? Why didn't the next two on the list get these cars? Is it possible people are passing up 2004s and waiting for 2005s? Any ideas?
quote -After Sept. 14, the base price for 2005 models will be $21,390, including Toyota’s standard $515 delivery charge.
Options, including a navigation system, can add $5,000 to the purchase price. And some dealers are tacking on stiff premiums of $5,000 or more because the cars are hard to come by.-end
Anyway, I just took delivery of a 2004 Prius from Longo Toyota in El Monte. I'm not a big Longo fan as they are way too big and way too busy to give you the time & attention that a customer deserves. They are the world's largest Toyota dealership for the past 10+ years. The salesman there didn't know his hat from a hole in the ground either. Couldn't even tell me how to start the car -I had to show him!. My car came with "Package 9" the top with voice-nav, blue tooth, VSC and everything. I wanted package 8 without nav and fog lights and w/o vehicle skid control. (we don't have much rain or snow in So Cal). The sticker price was $26,000+. Out the door (with over $2400 in tax to Calif State) was $28,600 something. This was the top of the line Prius with everything immaginabele out the door at sticker!
I hope this helps. Don't pay over sticker. There are at least three dealerships in L.A. that will sell for sticker but you'll have a long wait. I signed up in Ferbuary! It's definitely worth the wait. Best of luck. GET THIS CAR!
jptlaw@juno.com
Um, the Celica is a hatchback