I consider myself a "bmw guy" but i miss the utility of hatchbacks. The new 325it will perform quite well, that's a given, but i expect that it's going to start at 33K. I have no doubt the new 3 will beat everyone else on fun to drive.
However, based on pictures, the a3 looks better to me inside and out. And i think i'll be able to get one equipped as i like for under 30K, then pop a chip in there for 250hp and 250lb-ft. Even if it's not as fun to toss into a corner, i'll have a hard time not choosing he a3 if it's better in all other areas and thousands chaper.
I just hope i'm not completely let down when i drive one, and i'm left itching to hop into my 3. I have a history of that.
Oh, I'm sure I'll end up driving it as part of the mix! And the driving will likely make or break the sale, as should be the case.
I just have to go on record as saying the current company styling genre, both inside and out, leaves me cold, even with as conservative an application as they've used on the 90.
On that note, I find Audi (even with the new nose) much more appealing. But looks can only take ya so far in this here world...:-)
For me the definition of perfection is a car that has the interior styling of an Audi A4, the handling and exterior styling of a BMW e90 and the reliability of my wife's 83 MB300D.
Just drove by the lot where the new Audi dealership is being built here in Lexington, Kentucky. There is a phone number posted on the billboard. I blocked my caller ID and called the number, which got me a recording from a person (who gave his name) explaining that they plan to open in July, 2005. Good luck--looks like they're still putting up cinder blocks, but miracles can happen...
Curious minds (mine!) wanted to know which dealer group is opening this store, as there is one which I will not do business with due to a prior bad experience. I did a reverse lookup on the phone number, and found it was owned by Toyota South in Richmond. (The dealer group is not Don Jacobs BMW/VW/Honda--so far, so good.) Upon visiting their website, I found that the welcome message was from the owner of the dealership. They have an Audi A4 3.0 and two Volkswagen Beetle 2.0's on their used lot, but no other indication that they're about to go Euro. Given that there will be a local place to take an A3 for warranty service, I will continue to consider one.
Not a lot of posts here--more than the Hummer H3 board, but take a look at the Subaru Tribeca board (which looks like a nice car except for the grille).
I'm sure there will be more activity when we get prices/test drives.
There is apparently some question as to weather the 2.0L will have quattro as an option. This is bad news, as i don't want FWD. If i liked FWD i'd have a 9-3.
'course i've also heard the 255hp 3.2L v6 with DSG and quattro will be under 30K which would be pretty good.
***'course i've also heard the 255hp 3.2L v6 with DSG and quattro will be under 30K...***
I dunno, Audis and BMWs have attractive base prices, but once you start optioning them up, you go down a slippery slope. A sunroof is optional. I'd want that plus the cold weather package, metallic paint, and probably the premium or sport package. I'd like a factory MP3 CD player, but failing that, I can just run my iPod Shuffle through the FM radio...
Thanks for the brochure, I was a bit taken aback when I saw the pic of the roof with no sunroof.
I'd want cold weather, xenon, sport. I was figuring on the 2.0TQ, and toss a chip in there and get 250 each of torque and hp. There will be an accessory to plug in an ipod, which'd be perfect for me. Gotta have the 40G of music for road trips.
I wish leatherette were available as a standalone option, without the premium or sport packages. I'd prefer the durability and low maintenance to leather.
I priced an A4 2.0 Avant Quattro, and the MSRP was $34,xxx, equipped with the leather package and heated seats--either I missed the sunroof or it's standard. So, I figure an A3 FWD should be south of $30,000 with similar options.
***Initially, it will be offered in front-wheel drive only. A 3.2-liter V6 with quattro all-wheel drive is scheduled for launch by March 2006, and four-cylinder quattros are planned after that.***
I suppose we could be "lucky" and the car could tank, forcing AOA to offer great lease deals.
The celebration lease of 299 a month on well equipped a4's was pretty good, i thought about getting one, but i think an a4Q with 170hp is not enough to get me out of my bimmer. A lighter, more powerful a3 with more functionality and power is much more attractive.
In the brochure I read that the audio system has SD card slots for MP3 playback capability. Now that would be really cool, apart from that fact that all my music is in .ogg format.....
a real aggressive lease deal might pull my trigger, if the car drives as nice as I expect it will. I would be happy with a FWD/2.0/6 speed stick anyway, so if they rot on the vine (as people wait for the V6 or Quattro), I would be happy to take a loss leader off their hands for short $.
THen, I sell my current ride, and use the $ to pay off my wifes van. And stay out of the market for a while (the lease being like an electronic ankle bracelet for someone with CCB syndrome).
Could you please provide us with a little review of your new Avant? I'm in the market for new wheels this year (currently an '02 1.8t Avant with sports suspension, manual, and so on) and the A3 and A4 Avant are on my list. I'm very interested in how the new 2.0 liter engine performs (should be fine in the less porky A3). The 1.8t is just too meek for the A4's 3600 lb weight.
Per the catalogue, I find it disappointing the the liquid blue metallic won't be offered here. That's a very hip color.
I want brilliant red, but that's only available with black inside. Black me no likey. So I go garnet. But if it's really burgundy, then no can do. Burgundy ages the buyer ten years just at the doc signing. So it may just be green with a beige interior.
It's really remarkable the difference in structure between NA and UK marketing for Audi. There are a lot more options for the Euro side of the pond (based on costs I'm certain), but also, apparently, there's far less packaging over there.
VW is the same way. The Europeans get all the cool, individual options. Based on the ratio between a near-US-spec A4 price in the UK and an actual US A4 price in the US, I suspect a "loaded" A3 will sticker right at around $30-32ish. Just my speculation.
I'm thinking you're about right on the price, corvette. I'd guess maybe just a tad higher for the DSG 3.2 when it gets here. I'm thinking $35K with all the bells and whistles.
I like the size of the A3 over the new A4 and would get one if they come in a 3-door version. Anyone know if this is going to happen? If so when? Thanks
I could be very wrong, but somehow I doubt the 3-door will come here. Matter of fact, I'd call it a gamble bringing the 5-door, given the way the US customer genrally reacts to "hatchbacks"!
Somebody help me with that catalogue (I'm rapidly aging as kydfx points out!): does it appear to all y'all that if I'm interested in the "premium" pkg, I lose access to the "sport" pkg?
I'd play in favor of the sport pkg, but being the cushy guy I am, I'd like some premium too!
Sports Package $1800 Premium Package $2025 Metallic/Pearl Effect Paint $450 Cold Weather Package $700 Sound Package $900 Satellite Radio (XM or Sirius) $350 Open Sky $1100 Rear Side Airbags $350 Xenon Headlights $500
SOLD ORDER ONLY OPTIONS Convenience Package $675 Audi Navigation Plus $1950 Audi Navigation Plus and Sound Package $2850 Venetian Violet $1000 Morano Green $1000
Destination Charge $720
Of course, things will look quite different by year's end or so - this is not a high volume item, so I would expect adjustments once the "must haves" are done. So, please, don't compare these prices with models that have been sitting on the lot for months.
Premium package and sport package exclude each other, but the sport package misses can be made up for in the $675 "convenience package".
I love the looks, engine/drive train, but loaded up it gets expensive. You could get a BMW 330 for mid 30’s (with only sport package) using the ED.
When is Audi going to get with it and implement a European Delivery? How difficult could it be?
I have fantasies of a 2.0T (chipped) with DSG (yellow A3 sport back), but running into the 30’s probably not
That's how the one I would want is priced--manual FWD, metallic paint, premium package, cold weather package, and Open Sky system. IMO, a conventional sunroof should be standard, and the Open Sky an extra-cost option. It appears to be priced about the same as an S40/V50.
I just saw a black A3 on the lot of Baillargeon Audi in Euless, TX. It's the first and only one they have and it differs a little from the posted photos. The exhaust has two pipes coming out of the rear driver's side (not the split dual exhaust shown in the photo) and the wheels were 5 spoke alloys (not the 9 spoke wheels shown in the photo). I like the exhaust and wheels in the photo more than what I saw at the Audi lot. Anyway, this A3 was approx. $30.5K and had the premium package (with 17" wheels), open sky (sunroof for both front and rear passengers), and an automatic. The interior was very nice, as is the case with all Audi's. The rear seat room looks a little tight but it's a very useful sized car. And the mileage rating for the 2.0 was 25/31, which is a big improvement over my '03 Lexus IS300 Sportcross. I'm thinking of trading in my car for the A3 but I'm leery of Audi's reliability issues the past few years (and VWs). I'll probably hold off until they've been around for half a year or more to see if there are recalls or other issues.
Comparing the interior dimensions of the A3 vs. A4 Avant, the. A4 is slightly larger but not significantly.
Do I sense potential cannibalization?
Before I was interested in a A4 Avant, but now I have developed a roving eye for the A3. Cant wait to visit my dealer to test drive both the A3 and A4 Avant.
The article above indicates the critical importance of pricing the A3!
Audi thinks their cars are underpriced. Prices should increase to reflect their value. Sounds fair enough if Audi was a monopoly in the vehicle market. But in this hyper competitive market , the idea sounds more like a death knell!
To me, this is an indicator of how difficult it is to bring VW upscale without crunching Audi toes.
Agreed: pricing on the A3 is definitely critical. If it, in every trim level, does not come across as a real bargain, it will fail miserably. That's regardless of how tremendous a vehicle it may be.
The real problem for Audi is that its US dealers apparently aren't profitable. I just don't think simply raising prices will help. Having something great you can't get anywhere else and raising prices might do it...
They need a hot vehicle which sells above MSRP (like the mini, bug, pt crusiser) when it first comes out to really help the dealers out. Pricing wise I was really disappointed that the moonrooff wasn't part of the premium package. I was sort of hoping this would be in the tsx price range but at 30k+ (I am assuming 99% of them are going to be sold with leather) it gets to within a couple thousand of the TL, IS250, and a 325 with ED. Have to see what the real world prices turn out to be.
They're delusional if they think the A4 2.0T is underpriced at $28k. The 325i seems to be the preferred choice of performance enthusiasts, and it starts at $30k, and includes a standard sunroof. Not to mention the fact that resale on the 325i is better than the A4.
Audi is delusional if they think their vehicles are under-priced. Have they looked at their optional equipment and considered how quickly the price rises when the cars are typically equipped on the dealers lots? While it may start at 28k, it quickly becomes 35k when premium package, automatic, heated seats, metallic paint, stereo upgrade, and quattro are added. One can buy a loaded G35 AWD that has a much better engine and better reliability to boot. Audis carry a premium price already. Raising the price even more would be ridiculous!
Well, looking at the A4 pricing they are taking it out on us Canucks a bit. The A4 I priced out is $5000 more in CDN dollars than its virtually identical US counterpart. On top of that it seems their financing arm doesn't feel the car represents good value with the poor residual values they are giving here (again, residuals I have seen even in other northern US places are higher than here). So leasing is terrible (oh did I mention they want 5.5% on the leases as well!), and buying is only better if you believe the current residuals are low or you will drive said vehicle into the ground.
Among those suffering declines were Ford-owned brands Jaguar and Volvo, whose sales fell 11% and 10%, respectively. Sales at BMW AG fell 5% to 24,276 vehicles. Volkswagen AG, which is losing money on many of the cars it sells in the U.S. because of the weak dollar, reported sales of 23,240 cars and trucks, down 19% from the year-earlier period."
The quote above does not give Audi stats for March 2005---but it sort of gives you an idea what Audi's value is worth in this competitive market.
One advantage for the A3 is that is unique! BMW took the cowardly route by not introducing the 1 series wagon version in North America. I am not sure about MB, correct me if I am wrong--but their B Class wagon will not be introduced in N. America.
This niche is tailor-made for the A3 since it is unserved!
Yeah, I know--we Canucks tend to get short-changed compared to our cousins down south.
The closest we get in terms of fair pricing in Canada are for high volume vehicles like Honda Accord and the Toyota Camry. I guess that is why we are more frugal in choosing cars.
Talked with a friend of mine today...he works in a paint shop at a Audi/Chevy dealer....they just got a red 6spd A3 in....looks like they are starting to trickle into the dealers already. He also said one of the salesmen said the Quattro would be out this Fall....
I know there were sightings in Florida a month or so ago, but out West here I haven't seen any, and this is Audi country for certain.
You are correct on the B-class. Not coming here, at least until the dollar improves. When I first heard about it and saw the pics, I thought we had a winner, thinking it was RWD (Benz, after all). Then I found out it was FWD. Who needs it? VW has product every bit as appealing, IMO, and Honda's not far behind, if we're talking FWD. I'm not weeping over the B in the least.
My A3 test drive is still a year away. I'm waiting for the 3.2 Quattro... ]-}
I did not know the MB B class is FWD. That is disappointing.
An A3 2.0T Quattro sounds fine for my needs. Relative to my 168hp BMW323---the A3 will be a scorcher(well at least I hope it will be).
The following are my top three candidates which I hope to drive next winter:
Audi A3 Sportback 2.0T Quattro Audi A4 Avant 3.2 Quattro BMW 330 Touring xi(hoping such a car will exist. But at least I know for certain that BMW will introduce a E90 Touring by Nov 05)---refer to the site below
a3, sport + cold weather + xenon + "open sky" + convenince + quattro( when it comes out ~1200 )= $30040
I ought to be able to pick up a 330i with that equipment minus the quattro via european delivery for 32.5K. I believe that the extra 2.5K would be money well spent, especially as it would ( probably ) be recouped in resale.
Now, I am sure that discounts will be offered, and i surely value the utility of the hatch but i don't think audi can hope to get more out of the a3.
Questions on the Euro Delivery, Dave: How do you get it home? Cost to get there and back? Any processing costs here in the States? Can you get engine/body combos not available here?
Seems like if you're going anyway and want to schedule delivery to hit the date it's a great way to shop.
My objections to the E90 as a potential replacement are: size, which has increased more than I'd like; styling, which is headed in a direction I don't care for; interiors, which are becoming less intimate and more mundane, and lack of a 330iT for US consumption.
None of which means I won't be test-driving at the appropriate time, but it just looks like a less apealing package for my tastes.
Comments
215 HP out of a 3.0 litre engine.. If it is like most BMWs, it will perform better than the specs...
And, fuel mileage should definitely be better than the current IS300, with all of the transmission improvements of recent years..
regards,
kyfdx
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However, based on pictures, the a3 looks better to me inside and out. And i think i'll be able to get one equipped as i like for under 30K, then pop a chip in there for 250hp and 250lb-ft. Even if it's not as fun to toss into a corner, i'll have a hard time not choosing he a3 if it's better in all other areas and thousands chaper.
I just hope i'm not completely let down when i drive one, and i'm left itching to hop into my 3. I have a history of that.
dave
I just have to go on record as saying the current company styling genre, both inside and out, leaves me cold, even with as conservative an application as they've used on the 90.
On that note, I find Audi (even with the new nose) much more appealing. But looks can only take ya so far in this here world...:-)
Curious minds (mine!) wanted to know which dealer group is opening this store, as there is one which I will not do business with due to a prior bad experience. I did a reverse lookup on the phone number, and found it was owned by Toyota South in Richmond. (The dealer group is not Don Jacobs BMW/VW/Honda--so far, so good.) Upon visiting their website, I found that the welcome message was from the owner of the dealership. They have an Audi A4 3.0 and two Volkswagen Beetle 2.0's on their used lot, but no other indication that they're about to go Euro. Given that there will be a local place to take an A3 for warranty service, I will continue to consider one.
There is apparently some question as to weather the 2.0L will have quattro as an option. This is bad news, as i don't want FWD. If i liked FWD i'd have a 9-3.
'course i've also heard the 255hp 3.2L v6 with DSG and quattro will be under 30K which would be pretty good.
Here's the brochure
http://www.marshalltaylor.ca/BT_TechStuff/Audi/A3_Brochure/A3_Brochure.html
I dunno, Audis and BMWs have attractive base prices, but once you start optioning them up, you go down a slippery slope. A sunroof is optional. I'd want that plus the cold weather package, metallic paint, and probably the premium or sport package. I'd like a factory MP3 CD player, but failing that, I can just run my iPod Shuffle through the FM radio...
Thanks for the brochure, I was a bit taken aback when I saw the pic of the roof with no sunroof.
Quattro may be a year off:
http://www.nctd.com/sneakpreview.cfm?Vehicle=2006_Audi_A3&ReviewID=64
***Initially, it will be offered in front-wheel drive only. A 3.2-liter V6 with quattro all-wheel drive is scheduled for launch by March 2006, and four-cylinder quattros are planned after that.***
now that i read the brochure i'm a little miffed. i'm disappointed that the sound and cold weather packages are not available on the base model.
The celebration lease of 299 a month on well equipped a4's was pretty good, i thought about getting one, but i think an a4Q with 170hp is not enough to get me out of my bimmer. A lighter, more powerful a3 with more functionality and power is much more attractive.
dave
THen, I sell my current ride, and use the $ to pay off my wifes van. And stay out of the market for a while (the lease being like an electronic ankle bracelet for someone with CCB syndrome).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Could you please provide us with a little review of your new Avant? I'm in the market for new wheels this year (currently an '02 1.8t Avant with sports suspension, manual, and so on) and the A3 and A4 Avant are on my list. I'm very interested in how the new 2.0 liter engine performs (should be fine in the less porky A3). The 1.8t is just too meek for the A4's 3600 lb weight.
Byron
I want brilliant red, but that's only available with black inside. Black me no likey. So I go garnet. But if it's really burgundy, then no can do. Burgundy ages the buyer ten years just at the doc signing. So it may just be green with a beige interior.
If I buy one of course...
;-)
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I'll get you fer that one, you rotor-head you!
[-P
Interesting...
Somebody help me with that catalogue (I'm rapidly aging as kydfx points out!): does it appear to all y'all that if I'm interested in the "premium" pkg, I lose access to the "sport" pkg?
I'd play in favor of the sport pkg, but being the cushy guy I am, I'd like some premium too!
A3 2.0T Manual 6 speed $24,740
A3 2.0T DSG $26,140
Sports Package $1800
Premium Package $2025
Metallic/Pearl Effect Paint $450
Cold Weather Package $700
Sound Package $900
Satellite Radio (XM or Sirius) $350
Open Sky $1100
Rear Side Airbags $350
Xenon Headlights $500
SOLD ORDER ONLY OPTIONS
Convenience Package $675
Audi Navigation Plus $1950
Audi Navigation Plus and Sound Package $2850
Venetian Violet $1000
Morano Green $1000
Destination Charge $720
Of course, things will look quite different by year's end or so - this is not a high volume item, so I would expect adjustments once the "must haves" are done. So, please, don't compare these prices with models that have been sitting on the lot for months.
Premium package and sport package exclude each other, but the sport package misses can be made up for in the $675 "convenience package".
I get about $31,600 for a loaded A3 manual transmission..
That is with Sport, Convenience, Cold Weather, Xenon, Metallic paint, Sound, Open Sky (sunroof?), destination.
Not terrible, but not cheap, either..
regards,
kyfdx
AAARRRRRGHHHH.. I just realized.. this isn't even Quattro. Add another $2K for that...
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I love the looks, engine/drive train, but loaded up it gets expensive. You could get a BMW 330 for mid 30’s (with only sport package) using the ED.
When is Audi going to get with it and implement a European Delivery? How difficult could it be?
I have fantasies of a 2.0T (chipped) with DSG (yellow A3 sport back), but running into the 30’s probably not
B&B 5 stage kit..not sure of price.
I think that it's on the 2.0T. They have a 300hp S3 from the 1.8T so...just guessing.
Not factory...not sure about US emissions, but still pretty neat.
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Do I sense potential cannibalization?
Before I was interested in a A4 Avant, but now I have developed a roving eye for the A3. Cant wait to visit my dealer to test drive both the A3 and A4 Avant.
The article above indicates the critical importance of pricing the A3!
Audi thinks their cars are underpriced. Prices should increase to reflect their value. Sounds fair enough if Audi was a monopoly in the vehicle market. But in this hyper competitive market , the idea sounds more like a death knell!
Agreed: pricing on the A3 is definitely critical. If it, in every trim level, does not come across as a real bargain, it will fail miserably. That's regardless of how tremendous a vehicle it may be.
The real problem for Audi is that its US dealers apparently aren't profitable. I just don't think simply raising prices will help. Having something great you can't get anywhere else and raising prices might do it...
The quote above does not give Audi stats for March 2005---but it sort of gives you an idea what Audi's value is worth in this competitive market.
One advantage for the A3 is that is unique! BMW took the cowardly route by not introducing the 1 series wagon version in North America. I am not sure about MB, correct me if I am wrong--but their B Class wagon will not be introduced in N. America.
This niche is tailor-made for the A3 since it is unserved!
"
The closest we get in terms of fair pricing in Canada are for high volume vehicles like Honda Accord and the Toyota Camry. I guess that is why we are more frugal in choosing cars.
I know there were sightings in Florida a month or so ago, but out West here I haven't seen any, and this is Audi country for certain.
You are correct on the B-class. Not coming here, at least until the dollar improves. When I first heard about it and saw the pics, I thought we had a winner, thinking it was RWD (Benz, after all). Then I found out it was FWD. Who needs it? VW has product every bit as appealing, IMO, and Honda's not far behind, if we're talking FWD. I'm not weeping over the B in the least.
My A3 test drive is still a year away. I'm waiting for the 3.2 Quattro... ]-}
An A3 2.0T Quattro sounds fine for my needs. Relative to my 168hp BMW323---the A3 will be a scorcher(well at least I hope it will be).
The following are my top three candidates which I hope to drive next winter:
Audi A3 Sportback 2.0T Quattro
Audi A4 Avant 3.2 Quattro
BMW 330 Touring xi(hoping such a car will exist. But at least I know for certain that BMW will introduce a E90 Touring by Nov 05)---refer to the site below
http://info.detnews.com/autosinsider/sneakpeek/index.cfm
I
a3, sport + cold weather + xenon + "open sky" + convenince + quattro( when it comes out ~1200 )= $30040
I ought to be able to pick up a 330i with that equipment minus the quattro via european delivery for 32.5K. I believe that the extra 2.5K would be money well spent, especially as it would ( probably ) be recouped in resale.
Now, I am sure that discounts will be offered, and i surely value the utility of the hatch but i don't think audi can hope to get more out of the a3.
dave
How do you get it home?
Cost to get there and back?
Any processing costs here in the States?
Can you get engine/body combos not available here?
Seems like if you're going anyway and want to schedule delivery to hit the date it's a great way to shop.
My objections to the E90 as a potential replacement are: size, which has increased more than I'd like; styling, which is headed in a direction I don't care for; interiors, which are becoming less intimate and more mundane, and lack of a 330iT for US consumption.
None of which means I won't be test-driving at the appropriate time, but it just looks like a less apealing package for my tastes.
I would miss RWD, however...