I just had a terrible experience at the Paragon Honda at Northern Blvd. You shall not go there.
(Sorry my poor English and long explanation)
I got an e-mail quotation for a Odyssey from Paragon according to my request through Edmunds. I went there and show it, then the salesman added a dealer's inspection fee and handling fee, total about $1100 on the e-mail quate when the invoice came out. I thought it was still good price, I paid a deposit and came home. Then, I found a better quotation from another dealer. I called the salesman and ask to cancel it. He asked me hold and talked to his manager. Then he said to me his boss accept they will match the price.
The next day, I went there with a copy of e-mail offer. He showed it to the manager and said to me, "We will match the price, don't worry." Few days later, he called me and said, "Your car is here, but my boss says we cannot match the price." So, I told him that I would cancel. He saked me to hold again, his manager came to my phone and said that he would match the price after several quastions and answers about the e-mail quote. Then the salesman said to me, "Your car is ready. Please come to pick up tomorrow."
I went Paragon again. He asked me the e-mail again and called the dealer to check if any additional fee on it or not. Then, he said he needed to talk to his manager again. He brought my e-mail letter to show him, returned, and said the price will be matched. With grumbling, he made a new handwritten invoice with the $1400 lower price. After he made an invoice he complained a lot about the deal. Then said, "Your car was sold just yesterday, because you said you cancelled it. I will call you when I get the car."
A couple days later, a lady call me from Pragon customer service department and asked me if I am satisfied with the saleman. I shared my complaints with her. Then she strongly recommended me to see the sales manager. I went to see the manager this morning. But her recommended manager was not in the office at the appointed time. So, I spoke with other sales manager in stead.
While I am explainig the situation, he lef the desk. He came back with my original (the first) invoice and said, "You signed this and orderd a car. Then you came back with a stupid E-mail with a stupid price to negociate. We can't sell a car losing money. Why you don't go the dealer? I will return money willingly! Go to that dealer. I know you will never get the car with such a low price." What is this? I lost my words.
I left Paragon Honda, and went the other dealer and found the offered car was already sold and he doesn't have any car to sell.
Yes, from what I've seen Foresters have very good resale.
A little while ago I check the KBB value on my Forester, it was about $8600. I paid $19k 8 years ago. Some cars lose half their value in 3-4 years.
Funny thing was when I went to check a CR-V LX, it was worth less, about $8000. And for fun, I checked a Jeep Grand Cherokee, 6 cylinder automatic was worth even less than the Honda! Consider that it cost about $6-8 grand more when new.
So yeah, resale is a strong point. Buy new, might as well.
I agree KBB doesn't help much. When we sold our '99 Forester a year ago Edmund's TMV was $10k but the best I could get (private party sale) was $8500. Not bad but not terrific either. The area you live matters more I think. If we were in an area like the Northeast where Subies are popular it might have been higher. In out neck of the woods CRVs are much more popular and have higher resale.
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MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
I know trhat this is not a forum about dealers, but since we have a couple of Queens people, here it goes on Paragon:
I leased a Civic from them in 99. They hooked me up with insurance with $1,000 deductibles and then at the last minute, insisted that I take additional insurance to cover a total loss. This added about $30 a month but this didn't come up until my plates were on the new car and it was ready to go. I went for it reluctantly. When I got home, I found an additional line item for $400 for 2 years of "free" oil changes. With oil changes recommended every 7500 miles, that comes to about 3 free oil changes. At this point, I had the car home and it was my bad for not reader it closer. Ultimately, the car cost me about $40 more per month than it should have but was a good car and the service department was decent.
Fast forward 4 years to when my lease is expiring. They're all over me to come in. Since I wanted a bigger car, I took a day off to go look at the Accord. I come in on a weekday where there is not another soul in sight, and still these guys can be bothered to help me out.
Every question I asked about the car was a problem. I ask, "Does it have a timing chain or a belt" and he responds "Are you going to do something today?" Actually, that was his response to pretty much every question.
I never missed one payment on the Civic. I should have gotten the red carpet treatment when I went in there as a returning customer with an expiring lease and perfect credit. Instead, I was treated like they couldn't be bothered. When I turned in the Civic shortly thereafter and told them that I bought an Altima from Koeppel, they wanted to know if there anything that they could do to keep my business. Yeah... treat me decently the first time.
Koeppel Nissan was good to buy from but their service department isn't that good. I don't think that their techs know anything. Beware some of the other Koeppels such as the Mazda/Hyundai dealer. They're not affiliated and have a very bad track record.
A very unprofessional dealer if they talked to you like that. No excuse for that.
But, also think about this...you struck a deal that was acceptable to you. You probably shook hands before leaving your deposit. The terms were both agreeable to you and to the store.
But, then, what did you do? You knew you had a firm agreed on price and an incoming Odyssey reserved in your name.
You took that price and shopped it, pitting another dealer against the first one!
Do you really think that was a good thing to do?
Again, no excuse for the way that first store handled this.
In the end, it sounds like you outsmarted yourself.
I got my permit and learning to drive, but I use my friends cars. My parents don't own a car so its a lot harder to get more experience driving. Anyways I'm saving money for a car and was wondering what should be my first car and how much money should the car cost?
Indeed, you have good friends. Just make sure you drive very carefully in order to maintain that privilege.
You probably ought to figure out a budget for the car, but not just the car payments. You have to factor in insurance, which can be painfully high for a 16 year old male ($3000 or so for my little brother).
It might even be prohibitive since your parents don't have insurance, some insurers won't underwrite teens only. Start at Progressive.com, maybe, to see if they'd do it.
I'd sort that issue out first, before you look at a car. If insurance takes up most of your budget, you might have to get a "beater", which isn't always a bad thing.
Spiderdan04 lives on Long Island, NY. That's why his story makes some sort of sense... here in the midwest, it would be quite ludicruous for a kid to want a car and the parents to have none.
My advice: Best Taurus/Century/Impala $5k will buy in NY. Forget handling. They all handle pretty good while sitting in traffic.
Sorry about that... I didn't mention that I live in New York and I'm 19. That says alot in how much New Yorkers rely on MTA. Yea, my dad takes the subway and my mom works about 15 mins away from her job. So theres no need for them getting a car. I need a car so I can drive it to school, transportation is really slow there. I was considering getting a beater. I already got $3,000 saved up.
How about a Ford Taurus or other run of the mill American car (Chevy Impala, etc) that depreciates? They will be affordable and reliable (somewhat) and inexpensive to insure.
What do your friends drive by the way? If you're comfortable with what they own, perhaps you can look for a car similar to theirs.
My wife's 01 Alero is getting replaced, but we have a problem, or actually I have a problem figuring out what to replace it with. There were 2 cars on our list that fit what we need - CRV and Legacy Sedan. Well my better half didn't really find CRV to be that great, and I got totally disappointed by Legacy, my favorite the whole time. At the same time I got really disconnected from the automotive world to the point that I didn't know that Pontiac makes GTO again, which I think is Sunfire with bigger engine anyways. So, because I'm so out of it, can anyone help me find matches to the following criteria or direct me to a site that could help me with this: Price: around $20K +/- $5K AWD or 4x4 PT or FT small SUV or Sedan or Wagon lower 20's city/ higher 20's hwy MPG Auto Not Vibe/Matrix, Rav4 and Escape/Tribute
You're already hit on the major ones: Subaru, CR-V, RAV4, Vibe/Matrix, Escape, Tribute....
The Honda Element is a "love it or hate it" vehicle -- it has its pros and cons. I'm personally not a fan of Volvo, but some say the V50 is decent for the money.
For the most part, you're stuck with an incentive-laden american rig or a korean rig in that price range.
There is a Suzuki AWD wagon called the Aerio SX (sp?) in that range. It's the only Suzuki that is sold here that is built in Japan (the other Suzukis are rebadged Daewoos). It's supposed to be okay, but I don't have any experience with it.
You say no RAV4. You do know that the RAV4 was redesigned for 2006, right? It's quite a bit bigger now.
There is a Suzuki AWD wagon called the Aerio SX (sp?) in that range. It's the only Suzuki that is sold here that is built in Japan (the other Suzukis are rebadged Daewoos).
Isn't the XL-7 trucklet and its smaller 5-passenger cousin also "true" Suzuki - I don't believe they are Woos.
Sounds like kubus is running out of options with the vehicles he had considered and rejected. If the 4WD/AWD requirement is dropped, more choices emerge, though.
Yeah, I forgot about those. They don't fit into his mileage requirements, though. My Dad has a Grand Vitara and he's lucky to get in the low 20s highway.
a Subaru Forester? It's different from the Legacy, and may be worth a try.
Acura will offer an RDX starting next year, but it should be out of your range.
You could give the Saturn Vue and Chevrolet Equinox a try, but the 2006 RAV4 is probably a better SUV compared to those 2.
How about a Saab 9-2X? After all the incentives, it should be in your price range. It has AWD, it's built by Subaru, and it's MPG numbers are 19/26 I think, which isn't terribly great.
You could try a CPO Saab 9-5 wagon, but it won't have AWD. A CPO Volvo V70 would offer AWD, and be in your range, so try that.
Good luck. And if I may ask, what is wrong with a Pontiac Vibe, Toyota Matrix, Toyota RAV4, Ford Escape, or Mazda Tribute?
Mercury makes a Mariner, but since its a gussied up Escape, I don't know if you would like it.
"The chassis comes from Holden, the GM subsidiary in Australia, and the engine is basically a Corvette engine.
It's out of your price range, though."
In my neck of the woods, VERY LOW mileage '04 GTOs can be had for CHEAP. It's amazing how much their prices tanked once the next model year added hood scoops, 50 more hp, and a traditional looking dual exhaust!!!
"kubus_gt" - do you have to buy new, or is slightly used acceptable?
The Saturn Vue is a nice rig for the money, especially since the restyle. Get the one with the 3.5 motor from Honda and it's kinda like getting a Pilot at a mondo discount. Its corporate cousins the Pontiac Torrent and Chevy Equinox can also be had cheaply, but have GM engines instead of the nice Honda unit.
Going a completely different direction, the Ford 500 is a big old full size sedan but otherwise fits your wants to a "T". If you could find a fairly sparsely equipped AWD SE I'm sure you could get one well under your $25k limit. The Freestyle is similar mechanically but seems much bigger to me, although i understand they're really making some deals on them.
I owned an '01 Hyundai Santa Fe and liked it, but even with FWD I never got near high 20s on the highway. I imagine an AWD version would do quite a bit worse.
Another idea would be a slightly used (or even brand new if you can bargain well enough and if the deals are good) Ford Freestyle AWD- its roomy, has 3 rows of seats, offers AWD, is quite efficient relative to some other SUVs out there, and it offers a nice seating position.
First thanks to all that replied. Second let me answer couple things. Rav4 is on the list. I test drove it about 2 years ago, and found the engine to be really weak. Now that I found it was redesigned and with V6, I have to check it out. Matrix/Vibe - I had a chance to be passanger in it, too cramped. I felt the same way in Jeep Liberty, and in Legacy (even Impreza feels roomier). Suzuki's are out. I'm former owner of Nubira and it would take a lot of brute force into anything that is related to Daewoo brand. Plus the only dealer around here that carries Suzuki's, sold and serviced the Nubira and the Alero, both cars are/were junk (Alero is a lemon). It's more of a personal no. Vue - I do have a question about the Vue's. When I was shopping around, Explorer won over the Vue because of the towing, however I found the Vue to be very well rounded SUV. That was until I started reading about problems with them. So the question is if Saturn improved the VUE and how solid is the 3.5L engine? Equinox - My wife likes them and hates them at the same time. Hates cause it's GM, and GM made her Alero. Again a personal dislike there. We did check out Freestyle, Escape and 500... then we saw Fusion, and my wife is stuck on it right now. I guess I might be buying her snow tires. Reason for AWD is that she is a teacher out in the boonies. So to get from our boonies home to boonies school, takes her through some zippy roads that do get tough in winter. I might just tell her to take my Explorer and I'll get to pick a car for me... Mazda 6.
As mentioned before, the Aerio, Vitara and Grand Vitara are NOT Daewoo. They are built in Japan by Suzuki. The other cars sold by Suzuki are rebranded Daewoos.
My dad has a Vitara with almost 100k miles on it and has had no problems at all.
I don't remember your original post but what about the CR-V? I bought one for my wife this weekend and she loves it. Lots of space, decent power and almost 30 mpg.
We bought an '04 AWD V6 a year ago for my wife and she absolutely loves it!
250HP with 3600 lbs makes for a pretty speedy vehicle, and it's a good long distance traveler. I've maintained a steady 80MPH on I-25 in NM, CO, and WY and it handles the grades quite nicely - credit the 5 speed automatic. Good ride, decent mileage (we've seen 26MPG with some tanks) and room to spare for 4, or 2 and lots of stuff (we've brought home a 6' couch in the back once).
Ours is loaded - leather, sunroof, but I suspect you could get one with cloth and a hard roof for a pretty reasonable price. The jury is still out on the '06 restyle - wife hates it, I'm on the fence - but I heartily endorse a closer look if nothing else.
I think with the restyle it even looks like a Honda. Swap out the Saturn badge for an "H" and you could slot it right between the CRV and the Pilot. I never cared much for the old style myself.
It was the last '05 they had with 3.5 L AWD. The only option was the fun and sun or safe and sound package, it's Polar White (matches my Explorer). We didn't trade the Alero, they were giving us $2200, should be a bit more, so I'll just use for commuting, instead of the Explorer. All in all, we paid 21800 + tax and fees, I financed it through my own bank. I didn't drive it yet, but when my wife took off from lights, explorer had problems keeping up. Thanks all for the help. I totally excluded the Vue from my search (it is kind of mid sized, but it's not that bad on gas), so you guys really helped.
..... Look at it in a dealers point of view for a moment ... less than 15% of the buyers today pay cash, which buy the way, is a great thing and I applaud you ...
In the meantime, most who "say" they're going to pay cash - don't ...
Usually they've had a 3 minute conversation with the 24 year old loan officer at their local bank/credit union, or are looking at a home equity loan, or perhaps they've spoke briefly with their broker and might pull something out of a particular investment account .... *few* have $15,000/$25,000/$45,000 just rollin' around in the home checking account ....
In the meantime, what usually happens is ... most buyers want the vehicle "yesterday" and the funds need 3/4/5 days to clear or there hasn't been an approval on their side - yet ....
Dealers love cash buyers ... all they're doing is making sure the cash is here "today" and not waiting while you drive that new car around, when the Credit Union still needs another signature from Aunt Betty or the Mrs .... it happens everyday.!
Got cash....? .... get a certified bank check before you go - simple.
Unfortunately you're just paying for all of the promises that a dealer hears about 7,267 7,268 times a year ...
It sounds legit to me. If you're just going to drop a check and drive off with a car worth thousands, it sounds reasonable that they'd need to protect themselves by checking you out.
The previous post was dead on. Make the deal and then get a certified check.
We will get a certified check next time we have a deal set up. I had just always thought they could somehow verify checks these days. If not then I understand the reason entirely. Ken
Comments
After you add my wife's gardening tools, some cleaning supplies, the tree, and a few boxes, I've only got room for 2 cars.
Have you thought of buying a used Mazda Protege? It'll be highly reliable and shouldn't be terribly expensive.
I wouldn't lease unless you plan to move out to suburbia where your car won't get as beat up.
Certified-Pre-Owned is the best way to go, in my opinion.
I was thinking maybe a certified Subaru Forester. How much do those cost anyways?
-juice
I was thinking maybe a certified Forester might be good for petermk... Reliable, Roomy, Durable, and AWD.
(Sorry my poor English and long explanation)
I got an e-mail quotation for a Odyssey from Paragon according to my request through Edmunds. I went there and show it, then the salesman added a dealer's inspection fee and handling fee, total about $1100 on the e-mail quate when the invoice came out. I thought it was still good price, I paid a deposit and came home. Then, I found a better quotation from another dealer. I called the salesman and ask to cancel it. He asked me hold and talked to his manager. Then he said to me his boss accept they will match the price.
The next day, I went there with a copy of e-mail offer. He showed it to the manager and said to me, "We will match the price, don't worry." Few days later, he called me and said, "Your car is here, but my boss says we cannot match the price." So, I told him that I would cancel. He saked me to hold again, his manager came to my phone and said that he would match the price after several quastions and answers about the e-mail quote. Then the salesman said to me, "Your car is ready. Please come to pick up tomorrow."
I went Paragon again. He asked me the e-mail again and called the dealer to check if any additional fee on it or not. Then, he said he needed to talk to his manager again. He brought my e-mail letter to show him, returned, and said the price will be matched. With grumbling, he made a new handwritten invoice with the $1400 lower price. After he made an invoice he complained a lot about the deal. Then said, "Your car was sold just yesterday, because you said you cancelled it. I will call you when I get the car."
A couple days later, a lady call me from Pragon customer service department and asked me if I am satisfied with the saleman. I shared my complaints with her. Then she strongly recommended me to see the sales manager. I went to see the manager this morning. But her recommended manager was not in the office at the appointed time. So, I spoke with other sales manager in stead.
While I am explainig the situation, he lef the desk. He came back with my original (the first) invoice and said, "You signed this and orderd a car. Then you came back with a stupid E-mail with a stupid price to negociate. We can't sell a car losing money. Why you don't go the dealer? I will return money willingly! Go to that dealer. I know you will never get the car with such a low price." What is this? I lost my words.
I left Paragon Honda, and went the other dealer and found the offered car was already sold and he doesn't have any car to sell.
A little while ago I check the KBB value on my Forester, it was about $8600. I paid $19k 8 years ago. Some cars lose half their value in 3-4 years.
Funny thing was when I went to check a CR-V LX, it was worth less, about $8000. And for fun, I checked a Jeep Grand Cherokee, 6 cylinder automatic was worth even less than the Honda! Consider that it cost about $6-8 grand more when new.
So yeah, resale is a strong point. Buy new, might as well.
-juice
How many miles on yours, Juice?
by the by, I'm SURE you know this by now, but KBB is absolutely useless for real value.
Anyway, when we traded our '98 L with 90K miles about 2.5 years ago, we got $6500 for it. Granted, the high miles didn't help.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
FWIW people in the Subaru Crew complain that they can't find affordable used Subies. Either people hang on to them or prices tend to be high.
I have about 75k miles, but I think I had 72k when I looked. Something like that.
-juice
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
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kirstie_h
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
-juice
I leased a Civic from them in 99. They hooked me up with insurance with $1,000 deductibles and then at the last minute, insisted that I take additional insurance to cover a total loss. This added about $30 a month but this didn't come up until my plates were on the new car and it was ready to go. I went for it reluctantly. When I got home, I found an additional line item for $400 for 2 years of "free" oil changes. With oil changes recommended every 7500 miles, that comes to about 3 free oil changes. At this point, I had the car home and it was my bad for not reader it closer. Ultimately, the car cost me about $40 more per month than it should have but was a good car and the service department was decent.
Fast forward 4 years to when my lease is expiring. They're all over me to come in. Since I wanted a bigger car, I took a day off to go look at the Accord. I come in on a weekday where there is not another soul in sight, and still these guys can be bothered to help me out.
Every question I asked about the car was a problem. I ask, "Does it have a timing chain or a belt" and he responds "Are you going to do something today?" Actually, that was his response to pretty much every question.
I never missed one payment on the Civic. I should have gotten the red carpet treatment when I went in there as a returning customer with an expiring lease and perfect credit. Instead, I was treated like they couldn't be bothered. When I turned in the Civic shortly thereafter and told them that I bought an Altima from Koeppel, they wanted to know if there anything that they could do to keep my business. Yeah... treat me decently the first time.
Koeppel Nissan was good to buy from but their service department isn't that good. I don't think that their techs know anything. Beware some of the other Koeppels such as the Mazda/Hyundai dealer. They're not affiliated and have a very bad track record.
But, also think about this...you struck a deal that was acceptable to you. You probably shook hands before leaving your deposit. The terms were both agreeable to you and to the store.
But, then, what did you do? You knew you had a firm agreed on price and an incoming Odyssey reserved in your name.
You took that price and shopped it, pitting another dealer against the first one!
Do you really think that was a good thing to do?
Again, no excuse for the way that first store handled this.
In the end, it sounds like you outsmarted yourself.
By the way, you have some very good friends if they let you drive their cars.
Indeed, you have good friends. Just make sure you drive very carefully in order to maintain that privilege.
You probably ought to figure out a budget for the car, but not just the car payments. You have to factor in insurance, which can be painfully high for a 16 year old male ($3000 or so for my little brother).
It might even be prohibitive since your parents don't have insurance, some insurers won't underwrite teens only. Start at Progressive.com, maybe, to see if they'd do it.
I'd sort that issue out first, before you look at a car. If insurance takes up most of your budget, you might have to get a "beater", which isn't always a bad thing.
Good luck.
-juice
That's why his story makes some sort of sense... here in the midwest, it would be quite ludicruous for a kid to want a car and the parents to have none.
My advice: Best Taurus/Century/Impala $5k will buy in NY.
Forget handling. They all handle pretty good while sitting in traffic.
-Mathias
Thanks
- Daniel
-juice
How about a Ford Taurus or other run of the mill American car (Chevy Impala, etc) that depreciates? They will be affordable and reliable (somewhat) and inexpensive to insure.
What do your friends drive by the way? If you're comfortable with what they own, perhaps you can look for a car similar to theirs.
There were 2 cars on our list that fit what we need - CRV and Legacy Sedan. Well my better half didn't really find CRV to be that great, and I got totally disappointed by Legacy, my favorite the whole time. At the same time I got really disconnected from the automotive world to the point that I didn't know that Pontiac makes GTO again, which I think is Sunfire with bigger engine anyways.
So, because I'm so out of it, can anyone help me find matches to the following criteria or direct me to a site that could help me with this:
Price: around $20K +/- $5K
AWD or 4x4 PT or FT
small SUV or Sedan or Wagon
lower 20's city/ higher 20's hwy MPG
Auto
Not Vibe/Matrix, Rav4 and Escape/Tribute
The Honda Element is a "love it or hate it" vehicle -- it has its pros and cons. I'm personally not a fan of Volvo, but some say the V50 is decent for the money.
There is a Suzuki AWD wagon called the Aerio SX (sp?) in that range. It's the only Suzuki that is sold here that is built in Japan (the other Suzukis are rebadged Daewoos). It's supposed to be okay, but I don't have any experience with it.
You say no RAV4. You do know that the RAV4 was redesigned for 2006, right? It's quite a bit bigger now.
The chassis comes from Holden, the GM subsidiary in Australia, and the engine is basically a Corvette engine.
It's out of your price range, though.
-juice
Isn't the XL-7 trucklet and its smaller 5-passenger cousin also "true" Suzuki - I don't believe they are Woos.
Sounds like kubus is running out of options with the vehicles he had considered and rejected. If the 4WD/AWD requirement is dropped, more choices emerge, though.
a Subaru Forester? It's different from the Legacy, and may be worth a try.
Acura will offer an RDX starting next year, but it should be out of your range.
You could give the Saturn Vue and Chevrolet Equinox a try, but the 2006 RAV4 is probably a better SUV compared to those 2.
How about a Saab 9-2X? After all the incentives, it should be in your price range. It has AWD, it's built by Subaru, and it's MPG numbers are 19/26 I think, which isn't terribly great.
You could try a CPO Saab 9-5 wagon, but it won't have AWD. A CPO Volvo V70 would offer AWD, and be in your range, so try that.
Good luck. And if I may ask, what is wrong with a Pontiac Vibe, Toyota Matrix, Toyota RAV4, Ford Escape, or Mazda Tribute?
Mercury makes a Mariner, but since its a gussied up Escape, I don't know if you would like it.
The GV, XL7, and Aerio are true Zooks.
-juice
It's out of your price range, though."
In my neck of the woods, VERY LOW mileage '04 GTOs can be had for CHEAP. It's amazing how much their prices tanked once the next model year added hood scoops, 50 more hp, and a traditional looking dual exhaust!!!
"kubus_gt" - do you have to buy new, or is slightly used acceptable?
If you buy the Subie, might as well be new because they hardly come down at all.
-juice
Going a completely different direction, the Ford 500 is a big old full size sedan but otherwise fits your wants to a "T". If you could find a fairly sparsely equipped AWD SE I'm sure you could get one well under your $25k limit. The Freestyle is similar mechanically but seems much bigger to me, although i understand they're really making some deals on them.
I owned an '01 Hyundai Santa Fe and liked it, but even with FWD I never got near high 20s on the highway. I imagine an AWD version would do quite a bit worse.
-Jason
Second let me answer couple things.
Rav4 is on the list. I test drove it about 2 years ago, and found the engine to be really weak. Now that I found it was redesigned and with V6, I have to check it out.
Matrix/Vibe - I had a chance to be passanger in it, too cramped. I felt the same way in Jeep Liberty, and in Legacy (even Impreza feels roomier).
Suzuki's are out. I'm former owner of Nubira and it would take a lot of brute force into anything that is related to Daewoo brand. Plus the only dealer around here that carries Suzuki's, sold and serviced the Nubira and the Alero, both cars are/were junk (Alero is a lemon). It's more of a personal no.
Vue - I do have a question about the Vue's. When I was shopping around, Explorer won over the Vue because of the towing, however I found the Vue to be very well rounded SUV. That was until I started reading about problems with them. So the question is if Saturn improved the VUE and how solid is the 3.5L engine?
Equinox - My wife likes them and hates them at the same time. Hates cause it's GM, and GM made her Alero. Again a personal dislike there.
We did check out Freestyle, Escape and 500... then we saw Fusion, and my wife is stuck on it right now. I guess I might be buying her snow tires.
Reason for AWD is that she is a teacher out in the boonies. So to get from our boonies home to boonies school, takes her through some zippy roads that do get tough in winter. I might just tell her to take my Explorer and I'll get to pick a car for me... Mazda 6.
Again thanks for all the info.
My dad has a Vitara with almost 100k miles on it and has had no problems at all.
I don't remember your original post but what about the CR-V? I bought one for my wife this weekend and she loves it. Lots of space, decent power and almost 30 mpg.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
250HP with 3600 lbs makes for a pretty speedy vehicle, and it's a good long distance traveler. I've maintained a steady 80MPH on I-25 in NM, CO, and WY and it handles the grades quite nicely - credit the 5 speed automatic. Good ride, decent mileage (we've seen 26MPG with some tanks) and room to spare for 4, or 2 and lots of stuff (we've brought home a 6' couch in the back once).
Ours is loaded - leather, sunroof, but I suspect you could get one with cloth and a hard roof for a pretty reasonable price. The jury is still out on the '06 restyle - wife hates it, I'm on the fence - but I heartily endorse a closer look if nothing else.
-Jason
-juice
I didn't drive it yet, but when my wife took off from lights, explorer had problems keeping up.
Thanks all for the help. I totally excluded the Vue from my search (it is kind of mid sized, but it's not that bad on gas), so you guys really helped.
When is the VUE up for a redesign? It's been around since 2002 but they just announced a Hybrid version...
-juice
Anyways they wouldn't honor there previous price and we walked.
But they wanted us to fill out a credit application even though we were paying by check.
Is this common practice or were they pulling something?
In the meantime, most who "say" they're going to pay cash - don't ...
Usually they've had a 3 minute conversation with the 24 year old loan officer at their local bank/credit union, or are looking at a home equity loan, or perhaps they've spoke briefly with their broker and might pull something out of a particular investment account .... *few* have $15,000/$25,000/$45,000 just rollin' around in the home checking account ....
In the meantime, what usually happens is ... most buyers want the vehicle "yesterday" and the funds need 3/4/5 days to clear or there hasn't been an approval on their side - yet ....
Dealers love cash buyers ... all they're doing is making sure the cash is here "today" and not waiting while you drive that new car around, when the Credit Union still needs another signature from Aunt Betty or the Mrs .... it happens everyday.!
Got cash....? .... get a certified bank check before you go - simple.
Unfortunately you're just paying for all of the promises that a dealer hears about
7,2677,268 times a year ...Terry.
The previous post was dead on. Make the deal and then get a certified check.
-juice
We will get a certified check next time we have a deal set up.
I had just always thought they could somehow verify checks these days. If not then I understand the reason entirely.
Ken