Selecting and Buying My First Car

shr30

so i went to get it checked with mechanic.. three of four sides have been painted. Further, the engine has been reset and the reset is recent--> no error codes on file and a engine check light has been used. Now, he says it is because of oxygen indicator and he fixed it. Further, the ac doesnt work and he offered to fix that and a bunch of other brake/other work for free. I dont like the way a lot of unknowns are creeping up. do yall think it is still worth dealing with?
o2 sensor; what is the significance/what do you think of it?
Thanks a lot

cccompson

Move on to something else. An oxygen sensor is nothing but his lack of prior disclosure coupled with his apparent (over) eagerness to sell raises too large of a red flag.

varunsinha

I am looking to buy a used car. This will be my first car, I just graduated from college and am starting work. I am really clueless about cars (having spent most of my youth either in front of or tinkering with a computer) and am kind of apprehensive about making such a large purchase and being so ill-informed.

I've been reading guides, but I still had a few questions -

1) What things should I look at to make sure the car is still in good shape and won't need too much maintenance? Are they certain tell-tale signs that can provide a good indication of the reliability? I think this is my biggest worry - being saddled with the proverbial lemon.
2) What is a good used car to get (brand/model), in terms of reliability? I'm not looking for anything fancy or powerful - just an A to B car that won't give me too much trouble and won't guzzle gas.
3) My budget is 8-10k (cash). Is that good? Bad? Ugly?
4) I'm really confused about whether to go through a dealer or an individual or a manufacturer certified program?

I'm sorry if these questions seem stupid or redundant, but I'd really appreciate any assistance.

Thanks!

Varun

Kirstie_H

Quick follow-up question - do you have a body style or size in mind? Hatchback, 4-door sedan, coupe, SUV? Or are you open to anything?

As for question #1, you can never be 100% sure, but ask the dealership to let you have an independent mechanic check out the car before you buy it. I've never had a dealership say "no," and if they did, that'd raise a red flag for me.

varunsinha

kirstie_h,

Thanks for your prompt reply. Sorry about that - I should have been clearer. I'd prefer a sedan, but if I get a really good deal on a coupe, I probably won't pass it up.

How does the independent check work? Do I ask the mechanic to come to the dealership? Or take the car to the mechanic?

Thanks again,

Varun

jlawrence01

1) Take the vehicle you are interested in to a competent, INDEPENDENT mechanic. By independent, I mean a mechanic not reated to the seller. Tell him that you are buying the vehicle and to look for problems. On MOST cars, you will get a short list and an estimate of the cost. That is the BEST way to avoid a lemon.

2) Most vehicles are pretty reliable IF you perform the ongoing maintenance. That means frequent oil changes, tire rotations, etc on a routine basis. In a used car, the consition of the car is probably more important than the brand.

3) In the past 25 years that I have owned a vehicle, I have NEVER spent over $7500 for a vehicle. I generally buy 4-5 year old domestic midsized sedan. You get better deals on vehicles that only your grandmother would love - Buicks, Oldsmobiles, etc.

4) Whether you buy from an individual or a dealership, you MUST have the car inspected by YOUR mechanic. DO NOT ASSUME that the car is in good shape because it is certified.

qbrozen

3 sides painted? PASS!

jipster

I wouldn't touch that car with a 10 foot pole.

Run... run away from that deal as fast as you can.

jipster

For 8k-10k you should be able to get a nice low mileage 2002 or 2003 sedan. I think you would have better luck going to a reputable dealership and negotiating the price down. Most good dealeships will only keep quality cars on their lot. The car may come with a 30 day warranty, or if mileage low enough may be able to buy certified...which will add anough $1k to the price.

I think Buick Regals are nice reliable cars...or maybe a Nissan Altima since you are fresh out of college.

jipster

I generally buy 4-5 year old domestic midsized sedan.

Except for minivan which was bought new (for wife), that has generally been my forumla for buying a car. Buy a car that's 4-5 years old(usually domestic, my current ride a 99 Buick Regal), about 50k-60k miles...at 1/4th of sticker price... a smart way to buy good reliable cars and save money.

jlawrence01

Personally, I think that the NEWBIE should spend about $7k on the vehicle and place about a $1k in the bank for repairs. No matter what kind of used vehicle you buy, you will always be spending something on maintenance.

With any GM car, you can plan on spending about $1000-1500 around the 100-110k mileage range to ensure that the car makes it to the 150k mark. That is not meant as a slam but is based on the 6 or 7 that I have owned. (And even more if the car has not been maintained properly.)

varunsinha

I've heard that imports are more reliable than domestics. Is that true?
I know this will sound silly......but what is the etiquette for taking a car to a mechanic? Do I drive there with the dealer? Will s/he only allow me to take it if I show a certain level of interest? How long to the mechanic checkups usually take?
Thanks again for your responses and patience!

asafonov

Lots of good advice here.

Friends of ours - a couple in the mid-twenties - went through a similar purchase process recently. Their budget was 6-7k, stretchable to 9k. When they asked for advice, I steered them towards either a used compact (Protege/Prizm/Sentra/Lancer), or a GM midsizer. They concluded that if they stayed within their budget, the newest vehicle they could get would be a Taurus - fine.

They found a nice 2003 LS (?) sedan from a private seller, with the Duratec, ABS, etc, for about 8k asking. Now that seems a little high, so when they saw a lower-mileage 2006 ex-rental Taurus at a dealer for 9k ("only $8995"), they bought right away, without a negotiation, a mechanical inspection or even much of a test drive.

Now they realise that the newer Ford has an old-design engine, worse ride, worse-quality interior, etc. Bottom line: do not necessarily look for the newest or the cheapest car within your budget. Test drive, have an inspection, and make sure you like what you buy!

jipster

That's a good idea to keep some money in reserve in case of needed repairs, when buying preowned.

I've owned 4 G.M cars. I usually put my cars up for sale around the 100k mark. Though all were still running fine and could have been kept longer.Though obviously the repair bills and future reliabiltiy started to become a concern. Overall, I've been very happy with the reliability of all the G.M cars I've owned.

jipster

The Japanese imports are generally more reliable... European generally less reliable. But, you will be paying more for the "reputation" of reliability if you buy pre-owned Toyota or Honda... bit less so for Nissan. There are many good domestics of equal reliability. The Buick Regal as an example.

I'm not sure of the etiquette of taking a dealership car to a mechanic. I would think that you would just ask the dealership to let you drive the car to your mechanic to check the car over. Tell the dealership if it checks out okay then you will buy it. It would be a good idea to negotiate the price before having a mechanic look at it... as you will be paying the mechanic around $100(?) to check it out. Make the purchase of the car contingent on a satisfactory report from your mechanic.

jipster

The Prism would be another good choice for varunsinha.

Important to take your time, do the research on what would be a good car for your needs, reseach price and negotiation strategy. And as you posted, test drive, have an inspection... and most importantly make sure you like what you buy.

jlawrence01

I've heard that imports are more reliable than domestics. Is that true?

In some cases, Toyotas and Honda are more reliable. However, that is factored into the used price. For example, the Black Book on a 2003 Honda Accord LX V6 is $12k wholesale; on a similar Ford Taurus in around $7k. Personally, a $5k difference makes a lot of repairs.

I know this will sound silly......but what is the etiquette for taking a car to a mechanic? Do I drive there with the dealer? Will s/he only allow me to take it if I show a certain level of interest? How long to the mechanic checkups usually take?

Generally, when you find a car you are interested in (and I mean, ready to buy). You ask the salesman if you take the car to your mechanic. If he agrees, it should take a couple of hours and will cost **YOU** around $75-100 to take it to your mechanic. If a dealer will not let you take the vehicle, I would pass on it.

Look, we have all been through this "first car purchase". Ask away.

The thing that you MUST remember is that it is YOUR money. That is, do not fall in love with a particular car unless you want to spend more money. If you remain flexible, you can get a very decent car at a reasonable price. You have to be willing to look at a number of cars AND be ready to walk if you cannot get a good price.

haison3000

Hi all,

I am looking to buy or finance a used/ new car. My budget is around 20K. I just graduated and will start working very soon so I need a car fast. I never owned a car before and pretty clueless about the whole process.

I want to buy a car for 2,3 years then sell and buy another one when my job is getting better. I need a car with good resale price. I think that the new car would lose quite a bit of money after the first year so I am more inclined to an used one (tell me if I am wrong). I like my car to have good interior looking and fun driving also.

Any suggestion would be very appreciated.

cccompson

If you know anybody who knows anything about cars or buying, see if they're willing to help you along the way because it is a daunting process for a first time buyer.

cccompson

Generally speaking, the more you spend (new or used), the more you'll lose in depreciation.

If you want to go new, buy a Honda Civic as they seem to retain more of their value over the short term than just about anything else. They even make a sporty model - the Si - that might not break your budget.

I would really suggest spending much less if going used. You can buy many fine vehicles in the 8-12K range. Get one with low miles so it will still be worth something in a couple of years. If you want a coupe, a Toyota Celica would be a fine choice in that price range. A Nissan Maxima would fit the bill if you'd prefer a sedan.

jipster

I'd suggest looking at the Mazda 3 or the Mazda 6. Unless you're looking for something loaded down with options, I'd spend the 20k on a new low optioned vehicle...or 1 or 2 year old vehicle with more options.

qbrozen

cccompson beat me to it. A new Honda Civic sounds perfect for you ... OR a new Mini. The Mini has VERY strong resale, I believe stronger than the Civic. Either choice is typically not worth buying used because they retain their value so well.

In most cases, any car that loses alot of value in the first year or 2 will continue to drop fast through the first 5 years, at least. For example, one that loses, say 15% in year one, will probably retain somewhere around 40-50% after 5 years; while one that loses 25% in year one will be worth a pocketful of magic beans after 5 years. 15% on a $20k car is only $3k. I'd much rather buy new (and get cheaper financing) for an extra $3k.

Kirstie_H

of "newbies" dropping in and wanting members to condone making foolish financial decisions (trade a 2006 Navigator on a 6-year note in for a 2007 Civic, for example), it's refreshing to get some questions from buyers seeking honest advice... both of them looking longer-term and wanting to make a fiscally-sensible decision.

Welcome, varusinha & haison3000! Keep asking questions until you feel comfortable. That's why we're here.

ateixeira

I hear you loud and clear and agree about the up-front price savings, but there are reliable american cars that are better choices. My dad spent a fortune fixing his Taurus, and kept thinking it had to get better, yet it never did. He finally cut his losses.

GM's 3.8l engine has been around for a long time, so look for a Regal or some other car that uses that engine if you're shopping in that price class. They're reliable, yet resale is poor so you can get 'em cheap.

The PT Cruiser and Ford Fusion are other cars that are getting good reliability scores recently. Impala and Escape also rate above average in my Consumer Reports Buyer's Guide, so there are some diamonds in the rough.

-juice

jlawrence01

I have had DOZENS of post-2000 Taurus models with NO major problems. The 1994-96 Taurus models were not good due to the disposable transmissions.

As for the Mini as a vehicle choice, that car is expensive to maintain and is somewhat less than reliable.

qbrozen

i don't know what maintenance is involved (i'm not sure how much could possibly be required in just 3 years), but since the poster sounds like he/she would be dumping it while in the warranty period, reliability wouldn't scare me one bit. But that's me.

ateixeira

Dad's was a '92 wagon, and that tranny still gives him nightmares.

A friend got a '96 from a fleet and it wasn't long before he had the same issues.

So it got better after 1997s came out?

I just had a rental Taurus with 7k miles and just hated it. Didn't help that the previous renter had smoked inside.

-juice

jlawrence01

Quality improved substatially after the 1998 model year.

They are NOT my favorite car but for a car that can be obtained for $5-7k, they represent a good value which is what the original poster was looking for.

varunsinha

Thanks so much to everyone for their help. I'd message each of you individually, but I think that would be tantamount to spam!!

I think I've gotten an idea of what sort of car to get, and now I've started exploring craigslist and dealers' websites. I've been asking the basic questions - if they have maintenance records and VINs, but I was wondering if there were any other questions that I should be asking. I'm trying to figure out the preliminary, basic questions before I actually go out and test the car.

Thanks again for all your advice and answers. This has really been an invaluable learning experience.

cccompson

First things first. Look at, sit in, drive some iron. Decide what's acceptable and what's not. Narrow your choices down to 2 or 3 different models. Then reduce it to two to four specific cars. At that point factor in maintenance and carfax history before settling on one or two to have a mechanic evaluate.

Now, it is true that there are certain early questions that can cut the chase but I think that is only really true when it comes to privately owned cars. When I'm in the market for a used vehicle, I shop privately and it only takes a few questions only the phone with the owner to determine whether one's worth looking at. Here's my typical sequence.

Question #1 - "What can you tell me about it?" Here, I'm interested in what the seller says, and (especially) what the seller doesn't say (i.e., what doesn't the seller want to talk about).

Question #2 - "How long have you had it?" If the seller is not the original owner there's usually no need to ask a third question.

Questions #3 - "What's it need (now or in the next 6 months)?" The answer here speaks volumes about ownership pride and care and should lead to a discussion of service records.

Question #4 - "What body and/or paint work has it had?" Since I've done some of this in the past, this answer will measure the seller's veracity if I take a look at it.

One other thing that I like to know is the seller's position - has another car already been purchased, etc.

Unfortunately, such questions are essentially pointless with most dealers.

gsemike

"Question #2 - "How long have you had it?" If the seller is not the original owner there's usually no need to ask a third question."

That's a little bit much. If you're buying a car from the second owner, what exactly does that mean that it would be a dealbreaker? I've purchased cars from non-original owner and they've been fine. If a car was 2 or 3 years old and on it's second owner, that would be a warning sign but if it was 5 years or older, no big deal.

cccompson

Oh, I agree that the age of a car plays a role in how acceptable multiple owners might be. My son just bought a high mileage fully optioned '99 Maxima SE. First owner had it a little over two years and the second had it five.

My (strong) preference, however, is one owner vehicles as it increases the likelihood of complete service records and knowledge of the vehicle.

The only times I'll deviate is if the car is old or hard to come by.

gismodergy

I am looking to buy my first car as well. My goal is to spend 17,000 and my limit is around 20,000. I am 23 and a pharmacy student. I've been looking at the ford focus and fusion and VW jettas. Any ideas/tips?

cccompson

Although the Fusion is getting good press, it's too new to know about long-term reliability or resale. Past history with Fords is not paticularly favorable in either regard. Can't see buying a Focus - among other things, it's an old design now. IMHO, you're just asking for trouble with a VW.

Confine yourself to the usual suspects - Toyota, Honda, or Nissan - and you won't have any regrets.

gsemike

The Mazda3 is based on the European Focus which is ages ahead of the Focus we get here. That could be a good way to go.

17-20 range gives you loads of options be it compact, mid-size or even entry level SUVs. You need to think through here what you're looking for. If I was looking in that range I'd like the 4 cyl Altima or the Hyundia Sonata. I could probably get into a 6 cyl Sonata for 20 grand.

varunsinha

I am much closer to getting my car, but the questions still keep coming :-)

1) What questions should I ask dealers? I think I'm quite nervous about having to deal with them. Can I ask them for service records?
2)I was looking at some dealers and I came across a couple of deals that seem too good to be true - I looked up their Edmunds True Values and KBB values and are really close (sometimes even less) which has me really suspicious. In your experience, are there dealers that offer prices this "fair" (they claim that it is the lowest price they'll offer and no bargaining) or should I be really wary? Here are some of the cars I was looking at-

2005 Toyota Corolla LE
Exterior : Gold
Interior : Tan
Transmission : Automatic
Stock : 10297
Mileage : 11K
Price : $11,500

2001 Toyota Corolla CE
Exterior : Blue
Interior : Tan
Transmission : Automatic
Stock : 10308
Mileage : 54K
Price : $6,995

3) I'm seeing cars that are really old (9 or 10 years) but with not too many miles (50-60k). Is the age of a car a major deterrent?

Thanks so much for all your help (and sorry for the long post!!)

jipster

Didn't you originally post about 9 months ago? That o.k though... better to take your time.

Questions for dealership? Anything you can think of... remember you are the boss. Ask for service records, which they may or may not have. I have asked for previous owners phone numbers, which by law has to be provided in Kentucky, to ask previous owners questions about reliability and service info. The former owners I called were helpful in answering my question, though the husband of female owner was a bit curt.

Edmunds dealer retail is really inflated. As is the usual asking price for preowned cars at dealerships. If you are getting these cars between Edmunds dealer trade-in and private party sale then you are doing well. I wouldn't pay much more than Edmunds private party.

Unless you are at a no-haggle dealership, dealerships will usually negotiate. These cars shown may be marked down significatnly already, so the dealeship doesn't have to put them through auction.

Age and mileage are equally important. I would try to stay in the 5-6 year range with medium low mileage. Good luck.

shr30

hey guys, varun isnt the only one, i am also still searching/being dormant.
after two --- semi nice cars turning out to be wreck/rebuiltish with clean carfax, i am very skeptical of it all!!
I found a friend of a friend selling a 2000 acura integra GS for 8000$ with 80k miles. I will go test it and get service records, but if it comes out clean i will settle if i can get it for 7-7.5k
Any tips on how to do the dicey friend of frnd situation?
Thanks
Shr

jipster

I would certainly be more confident buying from a friend of a friend, than an unknown entity.

I think I would tell your friend to stay home while you negotiate with the friend of a friend. Negotiate as hard as if you were at at dealership... this is business. Then when you get the car for 7k go out and buy your friend, and friend of a friend, a couple brews.

user777

check all doors, hood, bumpers, etc for the matching VIN stickers. drive it. make the deal contingent upon someone giving it a good lookover. pay for a really good look at an independant dealing with acuras.

shr30

nice one jipster, i agree, I will take a non-related friend with me to go test the car and negotiate. Problem is the friend of friend is out of town so going to negotiate with dad :confuse:
The couple of brews cant hurt!!! :surprise:

Kirstie_H

They can, but only if you have them before the negotiations start

shr30

So I sort of got it down to
2000 integra with 80k miles - one owner- friend of friend about 8k. (test drive soon)(hatch)
2000/2001 mazda miata with 80-90k miles frm different dealers, just seen on site, not driven yet. (convertibles ofcourse) for about 7-8k closer to 9.

1999/2000 Nissan Sentra with 60-80k miles for about 6-7k
One interesting aspect is insurance for integra (full) is about a full 200-250$ over ten mazda or the nissan.
So what are your suggestions and all three are autos for a kid who just got out of school into the :confuse: workplace in houston :confuse:

jipster

As a parent, I wouldn't want my child in one of those little Miata's. But, they sure are fun to drive.

The Sentra seems a little overpriced, but would be a nice reliable/fuel effecient car.

I'd still have to go with the Integra... but thats just me.

Interesting that the 3 vehicles you have choosen to pick from are all quite different. You've got the practical(Sentra), the wild(Miata), and something inbetween(Acura). Good luck.

shr30

Haha, do you think the miata is unsafe?
I do agree i got all three and actually had a fourth - a 96 beemer but a bit too pricey which would be the Luxury!

I will test the acura and what are the usual issues with 2000 integraS?
Thanks

jipster

do you think the miata is unsafe?

No, not necessarily unsafe...but probably not "as safe" as others. But, that's just me... I drive a minivan for cornsake.

The Miata is extremely agile and precise in handling, so to me that is a saftey advantage. I think the Miata is a great sporty car though.

To check out the "usual issues" with the Integra, go to the "Browse by Vehicle" on left hand side of page and enter make and model. Lots of good discussions and information available.

Let us know how the Integra test drive turns out.

ateixeira

One thing a lot of people don't think about is that by only accomodating one extra passenger, there are far fewer distractions in a Miata. I bet that's why it costs less to insure than the Acura (plus Acuras are stolen very often).

You also tend to practice very good situational awareness because you're small and very aware of that. With the top down visibility is probably the very best among all cars, period. Top up is a different story, but still not too bad. Hard tops have more glass to address that.

I have a '93, and only don't drive it in the winter, only because I don't want overconfident SUV drivers hitting me.

Death rates in Miatas are actually just average, much better than Corvettes and Mustangs, where kids get themselves killed in far greater numbers.

If you get the Miata, just practice defensive driving techniques, and realize you're among the smaller cars on the road. I have been hit twice and the car held up surprisingly well both times, the brand new Saab that hit me actually had more damage.

-juice

shr30

Hey all,
thanks for the tips and suggestions.
The integra test drive was great - it drives really well.
Clean car and everything about it was good. Now I am considering buying it but for one thing, it is the most stolen car. That means, for one, insurance is high and secondly, how big a risk is that in houston texas?
Thanks

gsemike

I think that all the states that border a foreign country may have theft issues. You know that the insurance is 250 more, right? Is it worth an extra $20 a month. If it gets stolen, that what insurance is for.

metro123

Be careful about those Integras. I had an LS and it was the best car I ever owned but someone tried to steal it three times in one year. I was also paying a ton of money to insure the car. They are very hot vehicles in the tuner and low-rider community so if you don't have a garage and an alarm and lo-jack, I'd think long and hard. Too many sleepless nights for me. I sold it and bought a truck.