-June 2024 Special Lease Deals-

2024 Chevy Blazer EV lease from Bayway Auto Group Click here

2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee lease from Mark Dodge Click here

2025 Ram 1500 Factory Order Discounts from Mark Dodge Click here
Options

Buying Tips - How Do I Get the Best Deal?

1910121415102

Comments

  • Options
    socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    You used gross profit against debt to compute return on equity which is meaningless since equity wasn't even used to get that figure.

    Well, if you want to get technical about it, the ROE might be infinite, because the dealer purchases the car with 100% leverage -- the buyer uses zero equity to make the transaction. He only pays floor plan fees and interest, and borrows the entire invoice price (and probably invoices the advertising fees to boot.) And since the holdback should be enough to cover this, this doesn't end up costing the dealership anything at all if the inventory turns quickly enough.

    The essential point is that a dealer with quick inventory turn is effectively being paid by the manufacturer to sell it, because the manufacturer covers the borrowing costs and provides something extra beyond that. The dealer gets his inventory for a net cost of zero or less, and uses the sales proceeds from customers to pay off the principle of the floor plan, plus cover facilities, utilities, staff, etc.

    For a dealer who knows how to manage inventory and push product out the door, it's a lucrative business model. The cries of poverty don't really impress me.
  • Options
    snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,362
    Well, if you want to get technical about it, the ROE might be infinite, because the dealer purchases the car with 100% leverage --

    OK let me see if I can explain this to you. The dealership is worth a specific amount of money let us say $5,000,000. The dealership has debt equalling say $3,000,000. That means that the equity of the dealership is $2,000,000 (the $5,000,000 that its worth minus the $3,000,000 that they owe). Now lets look at the profits (all the revenue less all expenses) is $500,000. The Return on Equity is .25 or 25 cents on the dollar ($500,000/$2,000,000).

    Since there is far more to this equation then the car you cannot use only the car and say that the dealer has no equity, it is a false assumption because the dealership should have equity somewhere. ROE is never used on the individual item level.

    because the manufacturer covers the borrowing costs

    Sorry but the dealership still has an inventory for sales and has to pay interest on that inventory. Many dealerships have gone bust due to having to much inventory on hand and not being able to service the debt. Any reseller could have that problem.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • Options
    socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    Sorry but the dealership still has an inventory for sales and has to pay interest on that inventory.

    The purpose of the holdback is to cover those inventory financing costs, so if the dealership plays its cards right, it won't be paying that interest out of its own pocket.

    The holdback amount usually amounts to several hundred dollars. In contrast, the dealer may pay some sort of set up fee per vehicle (perhaps $50-100), plus interest on the invoice amount charged at some rate on either side of the prime rate.

    Net result: If the dealer can sell the car in less than roughly 60 days (this will vary), the holdback should be enough to cover those charges, which means that the manufacturer is effectively paying all of the borrowing costs. (By the way, this is one way that big box stores make some of their profits -- they buy their inventory on credit and sell the goods before the payments are due, reinvesting the sales proceeds to earn interest on the money that will be used to repay their vendors.)

    As long as the dealership can keep turning inventory levels at high enough levels to pay off its other overhead (facilities, payroll, etc.), and can support other business under the same roof (used car sales, service and warranty work, etc.), the dealership has a profitable shop.

    If you buy the car at invoice, the dealer uses your invoice purchase to pay off the principle of the floor plan. If the car is sold quickly enough, the holdback also provides some profit, as it should fully cover the inventory financing and then some.

    ROE is never used on the individual item level.

    I've been involved in an industry where this done quite often. When leverage plays a signficant role in a business, it becomes a primary driver of how business decisions are made.
  • Options
    jwilliams2jwilliams2 Member Posts: 910
    Of course your formula for calculating ROE is meaningless. All businesses look at overall ROE, but to get there you must first get to net profit. And yes, that is after expenses. If I described your meaning to someone in the financial profession or a Wall Street analyst, they would surely get a good chuckle.

    Please educate me. What business calculates ROE on each transaction before expenses exactly the way you describe? After 40 years in business I can't think of one. Help me out here.
  • Options
    pdxtauruspdxtaurus Member Posts: 16
    So one of the local Chevy dealerships is advertising "employee pricing." Since GM isn't doing real employee pricing this year, I can't look it up on the GM website (at least, I don't know where to look to find such a thing). I was wondering if anyone knew what this would mean in terms of pricing.

    Also, is this likely to be a non-negotiable "best price," or a starting point for (much easier) negotiations?
  • Options
    socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    What business calculates ROE on each transaction before expenses exactly the way you describe?

    One that I've worked in. You'll just have to keep guessing!

    In any case, you can do as you like. It helps the consumer to know that a dealer comes out of pocket for very little money when he purchases his inventory, and that the whole game is based on leverage. If you choose to ignore that, that's your call, I suppose.
  • Options
    jwilliams2jwilliams2 Member Posts: 910
    LOL, I knew you wouldn't (or couldn't) answer. And the fact that you can't admit you are wrong speaks volumes.

    And customers should also know that any retail business does the same thing, via payment terms from their suppliers. The bigger the retailer, the more demanding of longer terms to pay for their merchandise. So what else is new?
  • Options
    socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    And customers should also know that any retail business does the same thing, via payment terms from their suppliers.

    I'm not sure how that negates anything. (Note that I already pointed this out in a previous post.) The point remains that leverage plays a critical role in the dealership's determination of profit, and its motivation to turn inventory.

    And the fact that you can't admit you are wrong speaks volumes.

    Apparently, your rebuttal is to point out that the business model as I described it is not unique to car sales, and that you don't like calculating return on a project level, as if that would mean that dealers do not. I must be missing the rebuttal somewhere...
  • Options
    graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,670
    jwilliams...save your breath. None of us can even begin to approach the knowledge that socal allegedly (and secretively) has. He knows how to negotiate a car better than the rest of us. He knows how to run a successful business better than any of us. In short, he's got all the right answers and the rest of us are wrong.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • Options
    isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Funny how he will never give a direct answer. Everything with him is surrounded by mystery.
  • Options
    snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,362
    I've been involved in an industry where this done quite often.

    What industry? Because all my years working in accounting I have never seen it.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • Options
    snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,362
    If I described your meaning to someone in the financial profession or a Wall Street analyst, they would surely get a good chuckle.

    Yep I got a good chuckle out of that.

    After 40 years in business I can't think of one. Help me out here.

    Neither can I.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • Options
    snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,362
    One that I've worked in. You'll just have to keep guessing!

    Since I am a CPA and have worked in a multitude of industries and have much experience in this area and have not found a industry that does so and the fact that it is in violation of GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Principles) I will have to take that as a "No there isn't but I have to say this to save face".

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • Options
    bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    And who cares?

    If his (or her) advice makes sense to you, then use it.

    Otherwise, ignore it.
  • Options
    jwilliams2jwilliams2 Member Posts: 910
    Well, I will try to state this as simple as possible.

    You said: "But in that scenario, it is not unusual for a dealer to "floor plan" (borrow money) to buy the car. Calculated on an ROE (return on equity) basis, if the dealer pays $200 in floor plan and interest charges, and sells the car at a gross profit of $2,000, then ROE is 900% [($2,000-$200)/ $200 = 9 times, or 900%].
    The financial implications of this is that the dealership could use that $30,000 to control dozens of cars that are each sold a profit, and not just one car. The ability to use inventory financing makes the business much more attractive than it may first appear.""

    Well, a couple of points here. I can pretty much guarantee you that the dealer is not thinking he made 900% on this deal. Your "ROE" calculation is all wrong, both on the "return" and "equity" side. And are you forgetting the dealer has to pay the bank for the car? Seems to me they would have to stroke a check to the bank for $28200. This leaves $1800 of gross profit. Out of which comes all expenses, and whats left is net profit. Probably a few hundred bucks. This is what the dealer is looking at. So how can he "control dozens of cars" with that?

    And yes, all businesses strive to turn inventory as quickly as possible for a healthy bottom line. No mystery here. This applies to the Mom & Pop Burger joint as well as the Mega-Dealer. So not exactly an earth shattering revelation.

    Car buyers need specific information to make a good deal. Edmunds provides much of that info. Some advice given here overly complicates the buying process, and tends to use vague, cryptic terms. I would suggest more specifics, less supercilious platitudes.

    Car buyers need to focus on the end result, and not fall prey to the various add ons used to boost gross offered by many dealerships. If they would write down their maximum offer based on research information gathered here and elsewhere before going to the dealership, and stick to it, they would have a much better chance of a successful purchase. And as someone else said, be prepared to walk. That's just my humble opinion.
  • Options
    geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    PD...........Just ask the dealer to see the invoice!
    The GM employee/retiree/family price along with
    the GM Supplier price (employee is always the lowest)
    will be plainly printed and easy to see for yourself!
  • Options
    dpvoicedpvoice Member Posts: 2
    I've spoken to two dealers and they gave me an invoice number at least a thousand bucks over invoice. When I bring up Edmunds invoice price they say that Edmunds is an estimate. Is this true??? I think they're just pulling my leg.

    Thanks!
  • Options
    socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    So how can he "control dozens of cars" with that?

    I've already pointed this out to you, but we'll try this again.

    Dealers don't buy a car with a $20,000 by writing a check for $20,000. The reality is that the dealer borrows all the money and perhaps pays a fee of perhaps $50, plus interest of possibly $4 per day.

    Meanwhile, the dealer is also receiving a holdback that is, in this example, likely in the neighborhood of $600. Unlike most industries, the dealer is actually being paid by the distributor in such a way to motivate the dealership to sell the car quickly. The dealer might also be receiving other incentives to move specific inventory quickly.

    The fact that the dealer doesn't use his own money to buy the car, that the car be put on the lot for virtually no cost, and that profits decrease as the car spends more time at the dealership is useful information for the consumer. It motivates the dealership to act differently than it would if it paid cash for everything, and then tried to recoup it.

    Hence, two basic lessons for the consumer:

    -Invoice price is above the dealer's cost. Buyers often falsely believe that the dealer's profits begin with an above-invoice price, but the invoice price already has profit built into it. In reality, a price below invoice will yield a profit for many dealerships, or at least cure enough pain (by paying off the floor plan, etc.) to motivate a sale.

    So while invoice is useful for getting into the ballpark, don't assume that you need to pay large amounts above it for the dealership to want to make a sale. The dealership doesn't need to pull much out of your deal to pay for its other overhead.

    And it needs to weigh its profit goals with the race against the clock created by the interest charges from the floor plan. The need to pay off this loan may motivate the dealership to make a deal that may otherwise appear to be too low to make sense.

    -The nature of the inventory financing encourages the dealer to turn inventory quickly, not to let it languish on the lot. It illustrates why a dealership would generally prefer to sell a car on the lot, rather than make a dealer trade or do a special order, and why a car that has been on the lot for awhile may be had at a discount (so that the dealership can pay off the loan.)

    Car buyers need to focus on the end result, and not fall prey to the various add ons used to boost gross offered by many dealerships.

    It is wise to avoid the add-ons, but you can't focus on the end result unless you understand all of the pieces. In something such as a car sale, the devil is often in the details ("doc fees", "advertising fees", the specific language of the loan documents, etc.) that should not be ignored.

    If they would write down their maximum offer based on research information gathered here and elsewhere before going to the dealership, and stick to it, they would have a much better chance of a successful purchase.

    It's good to stay disciplined with a price ceiling, but buyers need to take care to avoid simply blurting out their maximum price from the onset, or else this ensures paying their highest price, regardless.

    Research is important, but only goes so far. You cannot learn everything you need to know on the internet.

    be prepared to walk.

    I've noted this throughout these posts, but a walk is more effective if it is well timed.
  • Options
    nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    I read All of these posts....BUT....can we please get back to the main TOPIC... Let's face it it...we non-accountant readers have no idea of what the hell you guys are talking about. I thought this topic was to tell us how to get the best deal!!!!!!! What ROE or whoever the hell that is, doesn't tell me a darn thing. PLEASE...STOP!!!!
  • Options
    socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    When I bring up Edmunds invoice price they say that Edmunds is an estimate. Is this true???

    It's not true. Both Edmunds and Kelley Blue Book receive their invoice price data from the car makers themselves, and if you compare the two sources, you will find that they match. That tugging on your leg is not just in your imagination.
  • Options
    audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    Let's face it it...we non-accountant readers have no idea of what the hell you guys are talking about.

    Don't feel bad, some of the experts don't have any idea either. Just because somebody stayed at a holiday inn express last night doenst give somebody dealership accounting credentials.
  • Options
    tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Anybody have any? :)

    tidester, host
  • Options
    snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,362
    The fact that the dealer doesn't use his own money to buy the car,

    Not 100% true. Most dealers pit up some sort of collateral. You just don't get a few million dollars worth of rolling unsecured inventory for nothing. Most dealers have some money sunk into that inventory.

    Also remember that a holdback isn't paying them to cover the cost of the inventory but is a reduction in the cost of the inventory. Say that the car invoices at $20,000 with a $500 holdback. Many times they only pay interest on the $19,500.

    Unlike most industries, the dealer is actually being paid by the distributor in such a way to motivate the dealership to sell the car quickly.

    All industries give some sort of incentive to those who can turn over their inventory faster. Many times its in the form of reduced costs.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • Options
    snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,362
    Anybody have any?

    Yes Only buy on Mondays or Thursdays before 1:00PM all other days buy after 6:00pm.

    Make sure your salesman sees you kick the tires, that way they know that you are a experienced buyer.

    Pay in cash and with pennies, the cashier needs the excersize.

    It is important to know the crash worthiness of the vehicle you intend on buying, so during the test drive crash the car into a building.

    Some cars will look completely different in different colors. So on your trip to the dealer showroom take a long some paint in different colors and try them out on the cars.

    It is important to know that all the features of the car are in good working order. During the test drive stop and have the salesman get out and check to see if the brake lights are working. As he is checking them drive off, he needs the excersize too.

    In order to get the best price it is important to get competing bids. Use your test drive wisely by driving to a competing dealer and getting a quote.

    It is important to get as much information as you can on the car you want. so consult your magic 8 ball often when you are at the dealer.

    When confronted with two options and you are not sure what to do ask the salesman what he would chose then chose the other.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • Options
    socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    Also remember that a holdback isn't paying them to cover the cost of the inventory but is a reduction in the cost of the inventory.

    Whatever one choose to call it, the net effect is to provide the dealer with an incentive to sell inventory quickly, because the dealer has holding costs that increase over time, thanks to the interest charges.

    The amount of the holdback is going to probably be enough to cover the first month or two of the interest. The faster the dealer sells the unit, the more money that's left to keep.

    From the buyer's standpoint, the point worth noting is that when you complete your purchase at the dealership, the dealer is going to receive additional money from the manufacturer or distributor, above and beyond what you pay, which encourages the dealership to complete sales. Don't believe for a second that a dealer makes nothing on a sale completed at invoice. And the fact that the dealer pays perhaps $50 to get that car onto his lot also helps to make a low price deal feasible -- the dealer's margins at that price are attractive.
  • Options
    bigdveedubgirlbigdveedubgirl Member Posts: 402
    Did not know I started a War.

    First of all if this was a 30year old dumpy dealership that sold 200+ cars a monthy. Perhaps $200.00 profit could keep the doors open. But when you sell only on the high end 60 cars a month and a new Multimillion dollar state of the art facility, the profit Margin must be a little higher.

    I have never heard of the ROE, but I do not think it is a necessary term to no during negotiations.

    Oh buying tip:

    If you want to qualify for a special rate and the rates expire at the end of the month, and you need a week to clean out the garage. Ask the dealer to secure the rate for you buy getting you approved now. Many banks will secure a rate for 30 days or longer after approval. BUT if you are approved at 6% and the rate goes down to 3% you are locked in at 6%
  • Options
    geo9geo9 Member Posts: 735
    A&E is having a "king of cars" marathon right now!

    FUN to watch ! :shades:
  • Options
    snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,362
    Whatever one choose to call it, the net effect is to provide the dealer with an incentive to sell inventory quickly, because the dealer has holding costs that increase over time, thanks to the interest charges.

    No since they do not pay interest on the hold back. The incentive to turn over inventory in a car dealership is the same with any company. Make a profit.

    The amount of the holdback is going to probably be enough to cover the first month or two of the interest.

    Again the holdback is not a payment to the dealer but a discount on the price. Almost every supplier does it to some extent one way or the other.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • Options
    tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    image ... especially the crash worthiness test.

    tidester, host
  • Options
    jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    Thanks for the info.

    I've been watching since your post. This is a visual of what's been said in these car threads. How about the hitting of the GONG and the DUNK when a sale is made ?

    This sure beats Dr. Phil.

    jmonroe.

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • Options
    nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    tidester;
    Wouldn't it be nice of you to delete all these da--holdback accounting discussions or move them to a new format called "Holdback and ROE".
    That's a great title.
    Nortsr
  • Options
    socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    You'd be better off learning about how it works, because it can help you to save money on your next car purchase.

    Don't worry about the terminology, or whether I'm complying with GAAP accounting rules (which, by the way, I am not), which is beside the point. The key thing to remember is that the markup/ margin/ ROE/ leveraged return/ IRR/ whatever-you'd-like-to-call-it helps to make a low price deal attractive, and generates much higher returns that it may first appear, all of which helps you to get a lower price. Dealers end up paying less than invoice, and they don't shell out thousands of dollars to put another car on the lot.
  • Options
    tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    all of which helps you to get a lower price.

    I've never known an auditor or CPA to get a better deal on a car than a typical reasonably informed buyer. Perhaps we'd be better off discussing buying tips that aren't going to induce a terminal eye glazing response on sales people and readers of these Forums.

    tidester, host
  • Options
    bigdveedubgirlbigdveedubgirl Member Posts: 402
    ROFLMAO!!!!!!
  • Options
    socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    Well, no one has accused me of being an auditor before. In my part of the world, those are generally fighting words...
  • Options
    isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    OK, I have a couple that may help.

    If your trade in is a pig sty, do yourself a favor and have it professionally detailed before you trade it in.

    Yes, we can see through the dirt,and yes, we do have a detail dept. Still, if the car is filthy, and the interior looks like the car has been used as a rolling restaurant and it stinks, the person appraising it is going to cringe because he has to get into it.

    If the A/C "just needs a charge"..then get it charged before your bring it in. Chances are, it really needs more than that and we have to assume the worst.

    If your check engine light is on, we won't care that it's "always been on". We have to assume it's going to cost us hundreds of dollars to repair.

    If your 1998 Caravan has 150,000 miles on it, we know they are "all highway miles" and we also know you changed your oil "every 3000 miles". We are going to wholesale your car and the wholesaler isn't going to care.

    Sell that car yourself.

    Back on track now? :)
  • Options
    tsgeiseltsgeisel Member Posts: 352
    In simple terms, "If you saw your car sitting on the used car lot, and said 'I wouldn't buy that POS' what makes you think the dealer will give you a reasonable amount of money for it?"

    It wasn't worth my negotiating time to trade in my last car, so I'm selling it myself, and will likely get at least 5 times what I would optimistically been offered in trade.

    So, from the aspect of getting a good deal as a buyer - don't waste your energy on a trade-in that you can sell for more in a private party sale.
  • Options
    faye4faye4 Member Posts: 2
    "Getting the best deal" is too late for me, I'm afraid.
    My husband just bought a used 2004 Highlander - it's what we wanted and we were tired of looking. He was in a hurry -no mechanic checked it out.
    The test drive was apparently fine (2 days ago).
    Now it sounds and drives like a truck - an old truck.
    Severe hesitation from a stop, and shuttering upon braking.
    Engine is loud.
    I'm sick about it and have to wait until Weds. at the earliest to get anybody to look at it.
    CarFax showed no incidents, but I don't think it's been maintained. (43K miles).
    Any ideas if this is major or minor (minor,please!) - and is there anything this dealer could have done to make it drive nicely for about 20 miles???
  • Options
    isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I agree and I will often suggest or even plead with a customer to please sell their undesirable trade themselves!

    I just took in a trade that was so filthy inside and smelled so bad I nearly gagged as I parked it!

    Between the dog odor and the filth, it was so bad it gave me a headache.

    Yuck!
  • Options
    isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Without listening to it, we really can't guess.

    Did you buy it from a Toyota dealer?
  • Options
    faye4faye4 Member Posts: 2
    Unfortunately, no.
    It was an ad in Auto Trader. Thought it was an individual seller. It was actually a used car dealer.
    We've been going to the local Toyota dealer for 2 months and they just haven't had anything that fit what we were looking for.
    I hope we're not learning a very expensive lesson.
    I've been reading another blog, though, about the Highlander and a problem that exists with hesitation. Someone said there's a fix for it at the dealer which involves downloading new software.
    That's encouraging..........but doesn't explain the braking issue.....and why did it drive so well for so brief a time?
    Grrrrr!
  • Options
    jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    ...and sputtering upon braking.

    Unfortunately you are probably learning a lesson that you didn't want to learn.

    As for the braking problem, I am almost positive that if the shuttering happens only when the brakes are applied (no problems otherwise) the rotors are warped. Years ago (7-10) this problem could be fixed by turning the rotors on a brake lathe at almost any garage but now there isn't enough material to do this. This means replacing the rotors and while you are having this done, you should have the brake pads replaced also.

    I'm not a mechanic but I've done more brake jobs in my days than I can count (not bragging since they are really pretty easy to do, how else could I have been successful doing this) which is why I think this is fixable for about $350 at an independent garage but shop around for a good one.

    There is no substitute for good brakes, 60-0 is much more important than 0-60 !!!

    Maybe more bad news but if the hesitation is correctable by downloading new software, why wasn't this done by the previous owner ?

    Sorry for the bad news but you asked. For your sake, I hope I'm wrong.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • Options
    isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Take it to a dealer or a COMPETANT independant and have it checked out. If it ran good before, there is probably not that much wrong with it. These are good cars.

    And, rotors can be turned if they are within limits.
  • Options
    stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,870
    well, TOyota has a 5 year/60K powertrain warranty, so you should be good there.

    Hard to tell about the brakes, but easy enough to get to a reputable brake shop to look at.

    Or, just take it to the TOyota dealer to evaluate, and go from there. A brake job at 43K isn't unexpected on a heavier AWD trucklet, and hopefully the other issue will be covered by warranty.

    You can also go back/after the place you bought it, but no gurantees getting anything that way!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • Options
    dave112dave112 Member Posts: 3
    this is my first time buying a truck and i need some advice. I went to a dealerships website and found a nice 2003 dodge dakota sport(extended,3.9L V6, 22K mileage, and a ton of features) for 13,900. The next day i went to the dealership and the asking price was 16,000 but they said the lowest they can go is the online price (13,900). With taxes it would be a total of 15000. I wasnt sure what to do so I said I'll think about it. Does anyone have any advice for me. I checked other websites and I couldnt find any thing better.
  • Options
    jmonroejmonroe Member Posts: 8,989
    The next day i went to the dealership and the asking price was 16,000 but they said the lowest they can go is the online price (13,900).

    This kind of stuff happens all the time. Since they met the original advertised price I don't think you can call this "bait and switch" and even if you could how are you going to resolve this before the truck gets away ?

    As for not being able to do any better after checking the WEB and since this is a used truck which you probably can't find on every lot (as opposed to buying new), you pretty much have your answer as to what you are going to pay.

    I personally don't get hung-up on an out the door price. Taxes, and other state related fees are set by the state and you can't do anything about this and I mean ANYTHING.

    DOCUMENTATION FEES (which aren't really fees at all but rather a revenue generator) should be negotiable just like the vehicle itself. I've seen on these car buying threads that they can be $300 and up. I have a BIG problem with this. Paying for someone to ring up your order, imagine how much this would cost you every time you went to the grocery store. They have operating costs too but they put this cost in the price of the can of beans you are buying. Somehow dealers have created this revenue generator and what's worse they seem to be getting away with it but only if you let them. Having just said that, I just paid a $55 doc fee (seems to be the standard in my area) and to be honest with you I don't know why I didn't ague this but I didn't, call me easy.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • Options
    biancarbiancar Member Posts: 965
    Isell, you said "sell that 150,000 mile car yourself."

    At what mileage point does a dealer no longer want a car? Or does it vary?

    Just curious. My 2000 Maxima GLE, well-maintained and just detailed, is in excellent condition. Has had the coils and one oxygen sensor replaced. Currently has 80,000 miles on it. Clean inside and out. Runs great.

    We're not looking to trade right now (since I just bought the Z), but is that an example of a car where the owner would be better of selling it directly, or would a dealer possibly be interested in that type of thing?

    Where's the "forget it" point - 100,000 miles? More? Less?

    Just curious.
  • Options
    bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    This is a 'medium' sized truck, not a compact. With the large V6 you should expect low milage. With gas prices increasing, this vehicle is not something that will fly off a car lot.

    I wouldn't pay a premium price for this truck.

    Sointo Edmunds New Car section and price out a new truck with the same options. I would guess this truck could be bought new at invoice price, especially this late in the model year. And would be only about 5 or 6 thousand dollars more - giving you a new truck with zero miles and a new warranty.
  • Options
    dave112dave112 Member Posts: 3
    i dont want to spend another 5 or 6 thousand. I need a descent truck for a good price( around 15,000). I just want to know if this is a fair deal.
  • Options
    isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    It really depends on the car.

    100,000 miles on a Maxima is nothing. These are great cars that cause few problems. We would be happy to keep this for our inventory.

    If this were a 80,000 mile domestic or a European car we would wholesale it. Way too many problems and people are (for good reason) afraid of these.
Sign In or Register to comment.