Buying Tips - How Do I Get the Best Deal?

geo9

ALL car mfrs. hit you with a adv. fee ! I know for sure
the adv. fee IS listed on the invoice on a GM vehicle.
Not to mention the crazy DOC fee which usually is not but almost always sprung on you in the F&I office. Here in NY the DOC fee is limited to $45 bucks.

The suprise adv. fee and other fees are noted somewhere in the Edmunds TMV article(s)...............

Be lucky your not buying a toyota. Along with the DOC fee
and adv. fee they wack you a Regional Dist. fee too.

I think the OTD method works the best (for most folks) to
combat these fees (to some extent) on a clean deal purchase.

snakeweasel

Thats another thing that gets me about car dealers. When you look at the price of a can of soup is there an additional 2 cents markup for advertising? When you go to the big electronic store and look at the price tag for a big screen TV does it say $1,999.00 plus $20 advertising fee?

british_rover

Yes it does actually. It is just because vehicle invoices are avaliable to the public and most other items are not.

It is broken out as a line item on the invoice since advertising does cost more or less depending on the region.

snakeweasel

Well since advertising is a cost of doing business and is part of the cost of the item on other goods it is buried in the price of that good and not as a seperate line item. The fact that the invoice is available to the public is immaterial (also I can get you the wholesale price of just about anything if you want).

jmonroe

Well since advertising is a cost of doing business and is part of the cost of the item on other goods it is buried in the price of that good and not as a seperate line item....

snake,

That's exactly what I've harped on in various posts. Grocery stores advertise at least as much as car dealers, yet they don't try to hit you with an additional fee when you get to the checkout register.

Car buying is a very emotional type of purchase, whereas eating is a survival thing. People won't play games with these purchases, therefore, none are played.

Now, for that refrigerator that the wife needs (wants), it's a 2006, stainless steel, 28 cu. ft. ....... what's your OTD price on this ?

jmonroe

tidester

Now, for that refrigerator that the wife needs (wants), it's a 2006, stainless steel, 28 cu. ft. ...

That depends. What do you have for trade-in and how big do you want your payments to be? Extended warranty and rustproofing will be extra ...

tidester, host

british_rover

Rest proofing on stainless?

Wow you are a crook. :P

tidester

Wow you are a crook.

Hey, I've got kids to send to school and we have to eat too! :shades:

tidester, host

snakeweasel

Well when we bought our refrigerator we haggled, got some off on it.

snakeweasel

Or a real good salesman.

british_rover

I just bought a washing machine from sears. Didn't need anything fancy just a basic washing machine.

They had one listed for like $279.99 or so. It was marked as one of their Great Prices and in little print under that no additional discounts.

Ohh a challenge I think.

I grab one of their sales people and ask him what he they will sell the dishwasher for.

HIM: Well we don't discount those items marked as great prices.

ME: Hmhh ok well what will you sell that one over there for it is marked at $319.99 and it is not marked as a great price. What will you sell me that one for?

HIM:(obviously out of his element now) Uhh let me check.

Leaves comes back a few minutes later.

HIM: We can sell that one for $290 dollars.

ME: OK... so you can sell me this one with all of these extra features(I point out all of the extra features on the higher priced washer) for basicly the same price as this one. That does not make much sense does it?

HIM: No, I guess it does not.

ME: ok well I will buy this washer(Points to the cheap one) for $269 right now today.

HIM: Yeah I guess we can do that.

(Runs off to go get one and comes back about 5 minutes later)

HIM: We are out of that model.

ME: Hmh ok well I will buy the floor model for $249 or you can sell me the better one for $269. Your choice which one do you want to unload.

HIM:(totally confused now) Well I will need to check on that.

ME: Ok go ahead.

HIM:(comes back with the manager of appliances I guess) Are you going to need us to deliver this as we do not offer free delivery on appliances below 300 dollars.

ME: Nope I got a truck so $239 for the floor model of the cheap one or $259 for the better one.(no that is not a typo I did drop my offer when the manager came back)

Manager: (Thinking it over) We can sell you this one(points to the higher end model) for $275.

ME: Ok sounds good where do I pay.

--------------------

Now it may not seem like it but I was very nice the whole time. You cannot put voice inflections, body posture and hand gestures into print.

snakeweasel

I just bought a washing machine from sears. Didn't need anything fancy just a basic washing

We can sell you this one(points to the higher end model) for $275.

You know I could have saved you $137.50 and sold you a bucket with a washboard for half what you paid, and I would have thrown in free shipping.

cluedweasel

"ALL car mfrs. hit you with a adv. fee ! I know for sure "

Nissan/Infiniti scrapped theirs a couple of years back and put the price of the cars up by 1.5% instead.

"the adv. fee IS listed on the invoice on a GM vehicle."

They were listed on ours ($400) but that's were 90% of our "fake invoice" accusations came from. The problem was that Edmunds/KBB didn't list the advertising charge so our invoice was always $400 more than ours. When I offered a customer $200 over invoice and then they saw $32600 instead of $32200 then the accusations would start flying.

british_rover

Darn I missed out on a real bargin.

Hey I got a dishwasher I can sell you if you are interested.

Lightly used 24 years old but still in great shape.

..............

5 foot 6 and 110 lbs.

:P

jack47

Yup.....you can't always trust what Sears will do.

I ordered a bath tub from their catalogue and, damn, if they didn't deliver it without the pretty girl that was shown in it in the catalogue.

And I paid an advertising fee, too.

snakeweasel

Lets see 5 foot 6 and 110 pounds, that means I would have to feed and cloth it and the like. Also thats mighty light for 5 foot 6 so it is either a skinny guy (in which my wife would start wondering about me) or a girl (in which my wife would kill me), so I am going to have to pass.

british_rover

Hehe My wife just looks like she is 17 I swear it is true, everytime she orders a drink she is carded and about a year ago she was carded trying to by a R-Rated movie ticket, she might weight 115 or 120 now I am not sure.

She used to be a ballet dancer and so has always been very skinny.

snakeweasel

Well if you continue posting here we will know that she doesn't read these forums. :P

And I can't remember the last time I was carded, I think it was the Johnson Administration, Andrew Johnson.

british_rover

Hehe no she typically does not read these forums so I am safe.

Oh I have a tip. Well not really a tip more of an explination.

Why sometimes just incredible deals fall in your laps that are unrepeatable and unusual.

For this month every new car I have sold has been at full MSRP. I am still a a little under a bonus level though. Now I would take an extremely short deal right now that would make me very little money because it would kick me up into another bonus round.

Going into the bonus round turns my Homerun sales into grand slam sales because the commission percentage goes up a lot.

nortsr1

british rover:
It is hard to believe that all I did was ask if anyone had dealt with Fitzmall and now, under the same heading, we are into wheeling and dealing Sears washers.
I will have to say that even Socal and Bobst would be proud of your negotiating prowess.

bobst

Yes, I am impressed.

When buying a washing machine, it is very important to not be taken to the cleaners.

snakeweasel

When buying a washing machine, it is very important to not be taken to the cleaners.

I have a good friend that gets taken to the cleaners every day. Oh wait... he owns the cleaners, never mind.

roundtrip

Saw a show on how they can millions of units of corn. The really interesting part was that this corn (all of it came from the same place) was labeled everything from generic to green giant to store brands and everything in between.

The point: a consumer could pay anywhere from .25 to .89 for the same can of corn at the same store. It justs depends on if you have to have the name-brand, pretty picture label or if you are frugal.

A little like buying a car. One never knows how the salesperson/dealership will will wrap up the car. Maybe he can make a short deal (the generic label) or maybe he shoots for the moon with MSRP or + (the brand name label.)

Kirstie_H

I moved a load of pricing posts to our Edmunds Pricing & TMV discussion.

lkn2race

Thanks for the input! My auto broker experience was great and buying in the US sounds like a good idea too.

adamsear

I'm in the middle of getting price quotes from several socal dealers on a new car. I will be verifying the out-the-door price before actually getting the car. One of the dealers (about 1.5 hours away) has offered to make things easier by delivering the car if I go with them. My questions are:

--Is this a good thing because it would be convenient and help me avoid any possible last-minute manipulations at the dealership (from F&I people, for example) OR

--Is this a bad thing because then I may feel more pressured to accept the car (even if has scratches or any other issues) AND may not be able to do a trade-in? My current car is very old (1987) with 168K miles and I may be better off selling privately, anyway, but am wondering whether it might be worth it to get at least a trade-in offer.

I'd love to know people's thoughts/experiences about having cars delivered vs. picking them up at the dealership.

Kirstie_H

Your trade is worth almost nothing to the dealer, but if it runs well, you can get a few bucks from it on private sale. On this particular deal, I would strongly advise you (in my own inimitably amateur fashion) to sell that baby privately.

I guess I'd suggest that you make your offer to buy contingent on buyer's inspection, and definitely contingent on the paperwork matching the exact OTD price on which you agreed. Personally, if the price isn't way off, I'd prefer to deal with a local shop just because some of those unknowns are removed from the process.

As for the F&I manipulations... just say no. Tell them you will absolutely walk if the OTD numbers you agree on don't match the final paperwork - no extras if you don't want them.

nynewcar

One dealer I contacted offers a "Price Guarantee" that reads as follows:

Here at XXX, we know that nothing’s worse than paying too much for your new vehicle. That’s why we do everything in our power to make sure you don’t pay a penny more than you should. If you have received a better price quote than ours bring it to our attention, and we’ll gladly beat their price by $200.
Our Price Guarantee means you don't have to wait for a sale to know you're getting the best price. Buy it now and get what you want, when you want it! This is just another reason why XXXX is your XXX dealer.
Prior sales, pre-owned, limited quantity, and e-Bay deals excluded. Cannot be combined with any advertised offer or coupon unless clearly stated. A completed and signed purchase agreement with complete vehicle information, and deposit receipt is required prior to vehicle delivery. Contact us for more information.

I did contact them, by email, to ask how the guarantee works - because I have a few written quotes that are lower than theirs. They never responded. Anything I can do to find out what I need to qualify for their "guarantee" or is this just another way to scam their customers?

desertfox1

I got this email from Audi today.

A plan for European delivery is under consideration, but no decision has been announced as yet. For the question of future TDI models in North America, an announcement may be made by the end of this calendar year.

Again, thank you for writing. If we can help in any other way please let us know.

Marjorie

Kirstie_H

I'm not saying it's a scam, and maybe you can make it work for you... BUT, you do know it will have to be on an identical vehicle, right? Unless it's something like an Acura where there are about 2 options, that's going to be hard to find.

If you get a price quote on a silver Mazda6 with a particular option combo at one dealership, they're only going to beat that price by $200 on a silver Mazda6 with the same option combo, and only if they have it on their lot. On a mass-market car, you might find it tricky.

snakeweasel

I will agree with kirstie on this, you can do the deal just make sure it is contingent on you inspecting the vehicle. Also your trade-in is best sold in a private sale. You will make more off of it selling it for scrap than trading it in.

Also if they deliver it they can still spring last minute surprises on you. Maybe like not having the same level of options and expecting you to pay for the the level you asked for.

snakeweasel

If you get a price quote on a .....

Nope not even that read what was written " A completed and signed purchase agreement with complete vehicle information, and deposit receipt is required prior to vehicle delivery" In other words they won't even take a quote, you have to actually have to buy the other vehicle before they will beat the deal.

Its just a marketing gimmick.

My response to them is "Ok I have a quote (which I will not reveal to you so don't ask), if you can truely beat the other guy then do so by giving me your lowest price, if you do indeed beat them you got a sale." I have never taken a quote to another dealer to beat.

graphicguy

I agree with both snake and kirstie.

You may be able to work it to your advantage. If the dealer is willing to deliver the car to you, if anything (and I mean ANYTHING) is amiss, you can simply refuse the car and not even leave your house. I'd let the dealer know this upfront, though.

Don't know what kind of car you're looking to buy, but I've had a new car delivered to me by doing everything over the phone, albeit it was several years ago. It was actually a very easy, straight forward transaction. Pretty convenient, too.

On your trade? Again, probably not worth much to the dealer. Sounds like a wholesale vehicle to me. Sell it yourself. Plop a "for sale" sign on it and see what people would offer.

cccompson

Other posters have addressed this quite well so I'll merely relate my own experience in this area.

In late 2000 I ordered a PT Cruiser at a time when they were in short supply. I went through Autobuytel and their dealer was about 125 miles away. The car was built to my specifications and flat-bedded to my house.

As I recall, I had arranged financing locally and had, I believe, a letter from the bank to the dealer to give to the truck driver (my understanding was that the bank was supposed to have already faxed it to the dealer). He hadn't been told about the financing arrangement and had to call the dealer who cleared it and the vehicle was then released to me. Other than that, it was a totally sooth transaction and so nice to do in the dining room.

I've also bought vehicles (from sometimes far) out of town and have encountered no shenanigans from selling stores. However, the transaction time inevitably takes quite a bit longer.

crimsona

Depending on the manufacturer, the Canadians may or may not fix your car under warranty. I know Subaru Canada will acknowledge US warrenties, but Honda would not. If you have a US Honda car but your ownership address is in Canada, your warrenty will not be valid here.

Visitors on the other hand, should have this. (At least, supposedly as long as I have Canadian plates, US Honda would accept warrenty issues on road trips to the US, but not if I move - so says service department at my dealership)

nynewcar

Bingo! How did I overlook that? Meantime I called the dealership and asked them pointblank if they thought it was reasonable to suggest that a customer lie to another dealer to get a signed purchase agreement, knowing all along that they would somehow back out of it. Guy I spoke with hemmed and hawed and finally conceded that it would be okay if I had a written quote that included all fees. As it happens, I do, and I would buy from that dealer in a second, but unfortunately they don't have any acceptable colors left, only bright red.

I don't need the extra $200 they're "promising," I just want them to match what that first dealer quoted. But somehow I'm sure that even though the quote is very clear and specifically notes what's included and what isn't, they'll find a way to weasel out of honoring their "guarantee."

And yes, it is an Acura. Didn't even think of that, but as you said - Acuras are easy to configure identically.

I'm so disgusted with car dealers at this point, I feel like going in and making a scene if they refuse to honor the guarantee, just to vent a little. :mad:

bobst

I thought we all learned in kindergarten that not all people play by our rules.

jipster

You may have learned that all 5 years old didn't play by the rules. But, adults you were taught, you were suppose to be able to trust and respect. To dangerous to teach that anymore.

tidester

But, adults you were taught, you were suppose to be able to trust and respect.

The notion of "Stranger Danger" has been around a very long time.

tidester, host

jipster

The notion of "Stranger Danger" has been around a very long time.

It's probably "been around" since cavekids were running around. But, there hasn't been the intense focus, and education about "stranger danger"... until the last 20-30 years. I believe bobst is in his 50's or 60's...a different time. So, unless bobst was 30 years old and still in kindergarten... he would have grown up in an era where there is much more trust of adults and less need to fear strangers.

nynewcar

Not sure I understand how this comment evolved, but I did have an afterthought - when I called, the salesman acted surprised at my question. Maybe just an act, but maybe both the dealership and consumers are so jaded that neither side even pretends to believe that a "price guarantee" might be legit. Maybe he was genuinely surprised because no one ever bothered to ask about it.

bobst

I don't think any kind of guarantee matters. If they don't want to accept your price, you can't make them. Simple as that.

nortsr1

I second that Bobst. If it isn't in writing. FORGET IT.(and then, it's even tough!!!

graphicguy

Good blog about buying a car from a Toyota DEALER in FL.....

http://oncars.blogspot.com/

yvette0179

My first question is: Does it matter if the dealership gives you an extra $2000 for the trade instead of taking it off the vehicle price? What is the price I should be paying for a Mazda Tribute S 2 WD Automatic no options?

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Jessie

graphicguy

On paper, the only thing you should care about is the difference between the trade and the new car.

Negotiate the amount of the new car. Once you get that amount established, ask the dealership to assess your trade value. Keep the two separate. It makes it easier to see where your at. While it's not "spot-on" with sometimes big vairalbes, go to KBB.com and get a ballpark figure of what your trade is worth (try to get more for your trade than KBB says it's worth).

Use EDMUNDS to get a general idea of what the Tribute will sell for in your area via the True Market Value (TMV). Use that as a loose guideline as to what the vehicle could be bought for (try to get it for less, though).

british_rover

If you get any where near what KBB says your trade is worth then the dealership overallowed on the trade.

graphicguy

BR....as we all know, a trade is worth whatever any dealership is willing to give you for it. That said, I just bought a BMW. Also went to an Audi dealership to check out an A6.

While I didn't have a trade-in, I observed deals being made by others. All 3 dealerships I visited were using KBB as their "guide" to show the potential customers what their trade might be worth.

BTW....saw a Rover ad in the newspaper this weekend. Around me, they're honoring Ford supplier and employee discount plans on all models. That't the first time I've seen that.

biancar

It's a benefit to the dealer if he claims the vehicle you're buying is being sold at a higher price, because he can then report that "new X-mobiles are being sold for XXX price," instead of the YYYY price of $2,000 less that it should have sold for, had your trade not been over-allowed.

It also benefits him in selling your trade, because he can tell the next buyer "we have $20,000 in this car and need to make a profit," instead of, say, the $18,000 it was really worth.

Also could make a difference in your taxes. Some states tax on the difference, some states tax on the "sale price." So that extra $2,000 you pay on the new vehicle could cost you more than that.

As others have said, negotiate the price of the new car first. Then do the trade. Do not accept fun and games with marking up the price of both the trade and the new car and concentrating on the "difference." That is not of benefit to you.

Probably best to sell your car privately if you can. If you trade it in, just be aware that you're paying a price for that convenience.

nynewcar

Oh, of course. I know that the only "enforceable" power I have is the power to get up and walk out, which I can do with no connection to another dealer's quote. I'm sure this is nothing but another ploy bordering on a scam, at best. I was just wondering how to they would play out the scenario if a customer actually called them on it.