But,,, in the dark past, the manufactors gave allowances/price support to dealers for the cost of demos. It's my understanding this has largely ended. So, don't expect a lot of 'discount' on a demo from a dealer.
Overall, I don't see a demo as a good deal. The price is usually not what a 'used' vehicle could be bought at (look around for a 5,000 used one), and as someone else said, a demo might have had abuse at the hands of drivers.
I also question the true life of 'demos'. It probably was driven by an owner their wife/kids. And the abuse here might be even worse. Is it tagged? If so, it might actually be a used vehicle, something they might have even had to 'take back' for some reason.
Anyway, in my past, I've never gotten a price quote on a demo that would cover the miles that are on the car.
I have purchased a demo, my father purchased a couple demos, my mother purchased an 89' Bonneville as a demo that my nephew is still driving and I can go on and on about people I know that have purchased demos and none of them had any more problems than if they purchased new.
For the longest time I purchased used cars that had far more that 5000 miles on them (none had any warranty what so ever) and none of them had problems that could be attributed to buying used. Any problems (and they were very few) that my used cars had were only the ones that were typical to that particular car.
I don't buy all the talk about how abused a demo gets with 5000 miles on it. You get the balance of warranty with a demo and if you negotiate hard enough you can even get that extended. If the car has a problem now that you can't detect, it will surely show up before the warranty expires. Do you really think that there could be a defect hiding in there until the warranty expires then jumps out and says, "now I got ya"?
So, if you aren't comfortable about determining its' mechanical reliability yourself, take it to a mechanic you trust to have it checked. Drive a hard bargain, consider it a used car, try to get the warranty extended (but keep in mind if you do this the dealer probably won’t consider your reasoning that it is a used car) then buy it if everything satisfies you.
Sorry to have rambled but I didn't want to just give you a yes/no answer and good luck.
Now, if you’re a nice guy, you’ll let us know how it goes.
Carl, please don't read the following it is intended for the eyes of the regulars that hang out here.
What do you think the chances are that Carl will get back to us, or do you think he is like most of the others that come here for help then never lets us know how smart we are?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I'm not saying "Don't buy a demo", but what I'm saying is "Don't let them treat the demo as if it was a new car". It's a 1-year old used car, and should be treated as such.
The arguments I made against it are more along the lines of negotiation fodder.
You know, when I read about all the problems people have with brand new cars,
And, maybe, just maybe, that's why the owner got rid of it.
Why else would a guy get rid of a new car with low mileage? BTW, 5000 miles on a "demo"...did 1000 people demo it for 5 miles each or did one guy drive it cross country?
More often than not when someone buys a used car (from someone they don't know) the're buying someone else's troubles.
Could be a lot of reasons for 5,000 demo miles. It could have been the owner's every day car. It could have been driven in from another dealership that was far away. It could have been a service loaner that the dealership sent out every day from their service dept.
Why else would a guy get rid of a new car with low mileage?
I know a couple of people who do buy brand new cars every year. Nothing wrong with the car they have except its a year old and they want a new one. They don't like driving around in a 2006 Cadillac STS when there are 2007's out there. They have the means to do it so more power to them.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I know a couple of people who do buy brand new cars every year. Nothing wrong with the car they have except its a year old and they want a new one. They don't like driving around in a 2006 Cadillac STS when there are 2007's out there. They have the means to do it so more power to them.
Hell that is about 25% of my customer base. I have clients who roll in and out of new cars every six months.
a demo is not a vehicle that was sold to a customer then returned. it has never been titled and is technically still a "new" car. new is in quotes because it has miles and has been driven by someone, but since it has never been registered/titled, its considered "new".
and buying a used car isn't always buying someone else's problem. many cars on lots these days are off lease cars that were turned in just because the previous leasee had to. nothing wrong with them...
i think the "buying a used car is buying other people's problems" phrase is a little dated now...there are some great high quality used cars out there (and you save a boatload of money!)
snake....at least in the recent past, I have become intollerant of the slightest negative perception I have about my car(s). That's the reason I dumped my year old Acura TL. It was a good car....nothing wrong with it...EXCEPT, I thought I could get used to front wheel drive. Never could.
It only had 14,000 miles on it when I sold it....as near to perfect condition as it could possibly be.
My BMW, on the other hand, has it's own "quirks". I can tolerate them since I like the car so much, though.
My 3 year old 4Runner, with 32,000 miles may be the next to go. Again, good vehicle, but I used it for towing. Don't need a tow vehicle any more.
BTW, 5000 miles on a "demo"...did 1000 people demo it for 5 miles each or did one guy drive it cross country?
jack,
If I had my choice of buying a car where either 1000 people drove the car 5 miles, which is highly unlikely, or, just 1 person who drove it 5000 miles across country which is also highly unlikely, I would quickly opt for the 1 person driving it 5000 miles across country because it is far less demanding on a car to get up to highway speeds and just continue to roll than the other way. Heck, if I knew it was driven cross country, I would be willing to pay more for the car but I’d never let the dealer know that.
Miles on cars, within reason, are not necessarily a curse and given the right deal I have no problem buying either a demo or used and I have several times.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Note that in some states (CA for instance) any car with over a certain amount of miles can't be sold as new, no matter whether it's been registered or not.
I appreciate all the feedback I got from everyone. We test drove the demo vehicle tonight and purchased it. We feel confident we got a good price. We paid less than the price for a "used" car suggested by Edmunds and got the full warranty, which you wouldn't get with a true used car. So, yes, you guys are very knowledgeable and helpful. (For the record, I am Carla - not Carl.)
I appreciate all the feedback I got from everyone. We test drove the demo vehicle tonight and purchased it.
Carla,
Thanks for letting us know how it went. Looks like you got a very good deal. In fact, it looks like you got it all. Nobody could have done better. Maybe you'll want to come back here and pass on advice to others when they need it. That's the way we do it here.
BTW, we don't know everything, names give us our biggest problems.
Enjoy your 'new car' for a long time.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I don't see the issue in someone trading every 6 mos if they have the financial wherewithall to do it. OF course, I'm a chronic car buyer myself.
And, oh.....by the way....I'm a single father that has raised my son, by myself, since birth. The whole single parent thing isn't confined to working mothers anymore.
And that, IMO, is just an arrogant display of obscene extravagance, no doubt engaged in by small men with large inferiority complexes.
You are entitled to your opinion, but the ones I know that do that I wouldn't voice that opinion. These are people of means who can enjoy the more better things in life. They are definently not small men and definitely don't have an inferiority complex. And you put a pox on them for being successful?
More power to the single mom, working full time, and raising a couple of children.
And even more power to her if she can get to the position where she can get a new car every year.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
....And you put a pox on them for being successful?...
Not for being successful (that I totally applaud)...but for their obscene display of one upmanship...like "my toys are newer and more expensive than yours".
To each his own...however, I have noticed over my rather long lifetime that those who make ostentatious displays of wealth generally have serious inferiority complexes and/or other short comings.
Not for being successful (that I totally applaud)...but for their obscene display of one upmanship...like "my toys are newer and more expensive than yours".
Who said anything about one upmanship? They work hard and take risks, for that they earned good money, and they want to enjoy the better things in life. Its not a case of "mine is better than yours" but a case of "I enjoy it and can afford it".
To each his own...however, I have noticed over my rather long lifetime that those who make ostentatious displays of wealth generally have serious inferiority complexes and/or other short comings.
How many very rich people do you know? My experience is that those that have the means to buy that new Caddy or Rover or whatever each and every year don't go flaunting it. Its the ones that are not rich that are leveraged to the hilt buying things that make them look rich that have the ostentatious displays of wealth. But they are living well beyond their means.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
But,a poll taken among subscribers (read people of means") of the "Benefactor" publication defined "rich" as having >$10 million in assets and >$500,000 in annual income. Suffice to say I was polled.
....Its the ones that are not rich that are leveraged to the hilt buying things that make them look rich that have the ostentatious displays of wealth. But they are living well beyond their means....
Couldn't agree more. Perchance, they do that 'cause if they don't have an inferiority complex they have some other short coming....like living beyond their means.
In this case lets say someone who can afford to buy a luxury car new each year without any economic stress.
Soooooooo, thanks for agreeing.
Who is agreeing with you? Certainly not me. I mentioned that I know people that buy new luxury cars each and every year. You were curing them with a pox and saying that they make ostentatious displays of wealth generally and have serious inferiority complexes and/or other short comings. I certinaly do not agree with that.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Gee.....by your definition, I qualify as one of those who participate in the arrogant display of obcene extravagance
Why? Do you go around with $50 worth of singles with a few $20 on each end to make it look like you have a lot of money? Do you buy 10 year old Cadillacs at auction just so you can brag about owning a Caddy? Do you have a fake rollex and flash it to people every chance you get?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Funny thing is the wealthy people I know wear run of the mill stuff like timex's. Its smucks like me who wear the fancy Movados that we can't afford (actually won it in a sales contest many a year ago).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
snake....another "fetish" you and I share....watches. We've had this discussion before.
10 year old Caddys? Nah! You get me one from the 40s oe even the 50s and I'd be all over it, though.
I've heard about these folks with "fake" Rolexs, but for the life of me, don't know where you would go to get one. Besides, my taste in watches runs more towards watches that are less....um....showy.
But, I did find a Seiko (not a prestige brand, I know) that's actually an automatic. It's one of their new ones, too. Seiko has made its name for making fine quartz watches. To my knowledge, automatics are a first for them (could be wrong on that count, though). It supposedly stores power for up to 4 years from your wrist movements....and automatically sets itself correctly (time/date) once you give it a couple of shakes....no matter how long it's gone unused. Intriguing.
Funny thing is the wealthy people I know wear run of the mill stuff like timex's.
I'm wealthy yet I come here and talk to you and the other less fortunate's but now you've figured me out about the 'timex's' and I'll have to switch to my 'micky mouse's'.
If you go and ruin that for me, since I'm not good at reading that big light in the sky, I don't know how I'll be able to keep track of time after that?
You really messed me up when you revealed this to everybody.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I'm not sure where else to ask this, but I bet some of you have an answer. My personal reluctance to buy a demo vehicle is that I dont trust people to treat a car properly early in it's life, especially if they aren't going to buy the thing anyway. I mean, if I am driving a loaner that eventually gets sold as a demo, maybe I don't care if the engine is warmed up before I hot-rod it. Maybe I don't care about the break in process because I know it's going back to it's owner shortly, and it aint my problem. Maybe these issues aren't as important in a modern car as they used to be. I was taught that about 95% of the break in occurs in the first 5 minutes anyway. Thoughts??
I agree, and have often raised that question myself. Whether it be a demo, rental, lease return...whatever, if it ultimately is not going to be titled as my car... I'm going to rag the sucker out.
...if it ultimately is not going to be titled as my car...I'm going to rag the sucker out.
Strange.
Anytime I used a rental and I couldn't even begin to tell you how many times I did this when I was working, I always drove them as if they were my car. Never took any joy in destroying something just because it wasn't mine.
I wonder how I ever got to be like this, oh yeah, I must have gotten it from my parents.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Actually, I agree with you & jipster. I do have some ethics & morals, but I am much more careful with my own car, as opposed to a rental or loaner. Many times I have been encouraged to "try out" the performance potential on a new car test drive. Not that I have ever driven a real sports car. Lets say you have a sample of an auto you are interested in. Maybe you would buy the thing, but how well does it really accelerate? How well does that stability control work? I don't abuse cars that don't belong to me, but plenty of folks do. Lotsa people get into the car, start the engine, put on belts, shift gears and take off all in one motion it seems. If you loaned me your personal ride, I'd take it easier than I would my own car. Anyway, the focus of my question is, say some jerk took the car out and did abuse it early in life. Would that behavior taint the car for me as a potential buyer later on?
My personal reluctance to buy a demo vehicle is that I dont trust people to treat a car properly early in it's life, especially if they aren't going to buy the thing anyway.
A totally legitimate concern, particularly if your goal is to own the car for a long time.
The potential problems come from what happens (or doesn't happen) during the break-in period. If the engine is not properly broken in, engine problems are more likely to occur years down the road, because of the poor break-in. You may also end up with slightly worse fuel economy because of it.
IMO, I would be particularly concerned if you intend to own the car for a long time. Add even more worry if the car is a performance car (you can guess what fun people would have had with that), or isn't a model among the consistently-reliable-and-bulletproof variety, such as a Corolla or Accord.
But if you don't plan on owning it for very long, particularly if you have a warranty during your ownership period, I'd be less concerned. The problems won't likely manifest themselves that soon, so it's more likely that it is your buyer who would be the lucky one to inherent them.
'Kinetic' Seiko watches have been around since the mid 1990's or so. And the early ones have a problem, they used a capacitor to hold the charge that will wear out. Worn constantly, it will keep time, but lay it down for a short time and it stops. But, there is a lithium battery replacement that can be installed which fixes it. About 2000 or so Seiko changed to the lithium battery. Of course, these will also die, but will have a longer life than the early capacitors.
By ragging out, I meant fast starts and stops, taking corners harder than I usually would... having some fun. But, I certainly never "destroyed" anything that wasn't mine. I always returned my rentals in exactly the same shape I recieved them.
To bad you don't treat people the same way you do cars.
Thanks for the explanation bolivar. The one that was shown to me was indeed "unique" in the way it operated. It's not like I need another watch to join the ones collecting dust on my dresser, anyway.
I don't have an issue with demos. Maybe I'm too gullible, but I figure there's not much anyone can do to them that will cause them to break. Who wants to "red-line" a Taurus, anyway.
Now, if there's something obvious....like someone filled the trunk with cinderblocks to haul around, then I might change my mind.
Yeah, I'll agree with that. I've always enjoyed your posts and sense of humor... and hope we can put this recent unpleasantness behind us. Which I think we've done.
In reguards to demos, I would be interested in looking at any studies comparing long term reliability between demos, rentals,leases... and private sales. Whether any exist or not I don't know (Don't really care to know that much to where I'm going to look it up :sick: ). I doubt there is much of a significance of difference. But, being conservative by nature... I probably wouldn't take the chance.
But, being conservative by nature... I probably wouldn't take the chance.
jip,
Go for it.
I’m pretty conservative myself and as I’ve said in an earlier post, I’ve purchased one demo and I’ve purchased many more used cars. As you know, a demo will save you some pretty good bucks and it will have a lot of miles still left on the warranty so I don’t think you’re taking any real chance there. Now if you want to save even more money and be more daring buy a 2 or 3 year old used car from an individual.
When buying a demo or a used car you can usually buy a more upscale model for less money than you might otherwise have been able to do if you bought new, that is, if you even wanted to move up a model or two. I know I took this into consideration when I bought a demo and used cars.
The only reason I bought new in 2005 and 2006 is because there was only a savings of a couple thousand dollars for the used models that I wanted and that was if they were in stock which they weren’t. So, as both dealers told me, if they didn’t have it on their lot and they had to find me one, the difference would be more. I know there is some salesmanship here but for the difference I opted for new.
This is the way I look at it; even if I buy a used car tomorrow and I have to put 5, 6, or 7 thousand dollars into repairs, over the years I have still saved gobs of money and have had very nice cars while I was doing it.
Do you really think I would try to lead you astray and have you smear my good reputation all over these boards? You know I wouldn’t do that.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I've been test driving cars for the last week and it's basically I've pretty much hated every single moment of it. Many of the car salesmen (and one woman) were very nice, but they all seemed very focused on showing me the cosmetic details of the cars. Now, I don't mind that, but only the Honda and Ford sales people even bothered to mention anything to do with the engine. Even when I've asked about the safety features and realiability of the cars, I've test driven. Basically, I feel as if I'm not being taken seriously. Any suggestions for how I can change the way I approach these dealerships?
My other question is that what is the best way to negiogate? In person or via email?
Salespeople talk about/show you the features that, based upon experience, they think you will be interested in. So, the easiest way to find out about other ones is to just ask. Be very direct and say I need to know about X, Y or Z, and ask probing questions.
As a female shopper, I've now bought my fifth car on my own. Over the years, I've done it both ways, most recently a week ago , - walking into the dealership and over the internet. I've found that the best way for me was to begin my negotiations via email and only do those pieces that had to be done in person when I arrived to finalize the deal. For me, the best way to be taken seriously was to do my homework before I even arrived, knowing what the prevailing market for my area was and having financing in order. The deals I got by beginning via email/the internet were much better than when I walked in off the street. But I think it's a personal preference for how to do the negotiations. Some people prefer the walking in and sitting down; others prefer using the internet.
I wouldn't take it personally. The fact is that most salespeople know next to nothing about the technical aspects of the cars at all, aside from a few basic stats such as horsepower (which is on the window sticker).
They aren't product experts, they're just trying to push your hot buttons, get you hooked on the new car smell, and cajole you into BUYING TODAY. If pushed for technical details, a lot of what you'll hear will just be flat out wrong.
I wouldn't go a dealership expecting the salesperson to educate you about the cars. Do your own research about them -- you can learn quite a bit from the enthusiast magazines (Car and Driver, Road and Track, Automobile, and Motor Trend), the consumer magazines, such as Consumer Reports, and articles elsewhere here on Edmunds, among other sources.
Let the salesperson do his dance of showing you the car -- this is part of their sales process, and they'll want to do this, anyway -- with the understanding that much of what s/he says may not even be accurate. Frankly, I let them give me their tour, smile and nod, and just tune out half of it.
They say that anything you get for free isn't worth the price you pay.
Well, not always so....just follow the "free" advice from pch101's (is that psychology101???) Msg.#907 and you'll be smarter than probably 90% of all new car buyers.
The same goes for just about anything you buy...recently talked to several salepeople in BB and CC about a large screen HDTV. Only one young man out of about six or seven knew what he was talking about.
Thanks for all the advice. This is my first time dealing with a dealership (I've always bought private party used before), and I'm surprised at how much I feel that the sales people don't know. I've done some basic research about all the cars I'm interested in, but, I guess I'm surprised at how little actual information is being shared by the sales people. I mean, it's nice to know that there is a little place for my MP3 player, but I'm far more interested in what the maintence schedule is like and reliability issues.
I sounds like I need to just be more direct than I am right now. Thanks for the advice...
I sounds like I need to just be more direct than I am right now.
I wouldn't be confrontational, that won't help. No need to show the guy/gal up for not knowing anything.
Obviously, you want to (and should) kick the tires and have a test drive, so go do that, and grin and bear it when it comes to dealing with the sales staff. In terms of asking questions, I would just see it as "going through the motions" that are inevitable in car buying.
Often times, I'll just pose questions that I know the answer to, just to see what kind of response I get. In part, I do this because it helps me to gauge whether the guy is a good at bluffing or not, which is useful to know for your negotiation. I can also use this Q&A process to make myself appear to be naive, which also helps later on when the real haggling begins.
My other question is that what is the best way to negiogate? In person or via email?
The last two times I bought (05’ and 06’) I started with the internet but not because I’m afraid of walking into a dealership which I’m not saying you are but I decided to use the more modern approach first. I had a varied response just like you would get by going to the dealer but I saved a lot of time by not running around. The dealers that played games over the internet were quickly out of the running and like I said this saved a lot of time.
In 05’ after the initial internet price I got a call from the guy wanting to know when I’d like to come in. While his price was pretty good I told him he was still a little high and I wanted to wait for a response from all my requests. He said come on in and we could discuss this further, so since he was the closest guy, only 4 miles away, I said ok. BTW, by the time I went to this dealer later that day I received responses from all 5 of the dealers I e-mailed and only one was a little better (I think something like $200) and since he was the farthest away, I wasn’t really considering him at that price. To make a long story short, the dealer I went to met my price and I bought. Pretty painless.
In 06’ since I wanted to buy the same brand, while I was returning from some other shopping I went to the dealer where I purchased the 05’ but he didn’t have what I wanted in stock and wasn’t all that interested in finding me one although this was the same salesman I had already dealt with and I couldn’t really understand this. I guess he wasn’t as hungry this year so I was out the door just that fast. By the time I got home I had a response from an e-mail that I had sent out the day before. The price was pretty good but he was still over my price but I felt he was close enough that he might be willing to negotiate. So, I called the guy and told him my price and that it was firm and I only wanted one more price from him, mine. I was sure to remind him that it was either my price or no deal because I didn’t want to waste time, not even over the phone. He goes to a higher authority, calls me back (less than 20 minutes) and said he would meet my price but only for that day (be ready to hear this, it’s one of their favorites). Since I was ready to buy that day I bought. This purchase was even less painless than the 05’ purchase, so painless, that I’m going to try this method next time.
So it works both ways, just be sure of the price you want to spend and don’t get talked into something you don’t want. It’s really VERY simple and anybody who tells you differently just likes to make things difficult.
Good luck,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Comments
in the dark past, the manufactors gave allowances/price support to dealers for the cost of demos. It's my understanding this has largely ended. So, don't expect a lot of 'discount' on a demo from a dealer.
Overall, I don't see a demo as a good deal. The price is usually not what a 'used' vehicle could be bought at (look around for a 5,000 used one), and as someone else said, a demo might have had abuse at the hands of drivers.
I also question the true life of 'demos'. It probably was driven by an owner their wife/kids. And the abuse here might be even worse. Is it tagged? If so, it might actually be a used vehicle, something they might have even had to 'take back' for some reason.
Anyway, in my past, I've never gotten a price quote on a demo that would cover the miles that are on the car.
I have purchased a demo, my father purchased a couple demos, my mother purchased an 89' Bonneville as a demo that my nephew is still driving and I can go on and on about people I know that have purchased demos and none of them had any more problems than if they purchased new.
For the longest time I purchased used cars that had far more that 5000 miles on them (none had any warranty what so ever) and none of them had problems that could be attributed to buying used. Any problems (and they were very few) that my used cars had were only the ones that were typical to that particular car.
I don't buy all the talk about how abused a demo gets with 5000 miles on it. You get the balance of warranty with a demo and if you negotiate hard enough you can even get that extended. If the car has a problem now that you can't detect, it will surely show up before the warranty expires. Do you really think that there could be a defect hiding in there until the warranty expires then jumps out and says, "now I got ya"?
So, if you aren't comfortable about determining its' mechanical reliability yourself, take it to a mechanic you trust to have it checked. Drive a hard bargain, consider it a used car, try to get the warranty extended (but keep in mind if you do this the dealer probably won’t consider your reasoning that it is a used car) then buy it if everything satisfies you.
Sorry to have rambled but I didn't want to just give you a yes/no answer and good luck.
Now, if you’re a nice guy, you’ll let us know how it goes.
Carl, please don't read the following it is intended for the eyes of the regulars that hang out here.
What do you think the chances are that Carl will get back to us, or do you think he is like most of the others that come here for help then never lets us know how smart we are?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Maybe the people who took it for test drives were hard on the engine, but these days the engines are the most reliable parts of the cars.
The arguments I made against it are more along the lines of negotiation fodder.
And, maybe, just maybe, that's why the owner got rid of it.
Why else would a guy get rid of a new car with low mileage? BTW, 5000 miles on a "demo"...did 1000 people demo it for 5 miles each or did one guy drive it cross country?
More often than not when someone buys a used car (from someone they don't know) the're buying someone else's troubles.
I know a couple of people who do buy brand new cars every year. Nothing wrong with the car they have except its a year old and they want a new one. They don't like driving around in a 2006 Cadillac STS when there are 2007's out there. They have the means to do it so more power to them.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Hell that is about 25% of my customer base. I have clients who roll in and out of new cars every six months.
and buying a used car isn't always buying someone else's problem. many cars on lots these days are off lease cars that were turned in just because the previous leasee had to. nothing wrong with them...
i think the "buying a used car is buying other people's problems" phrase is a little dated now...there are some great high quality used cars out there (and you save a boatload of money!)
-thene
It only had 14,000 miles on it when I sold it....as near to perfect condition as it could possibly be.
My BMW, on the other hand, has it's own "quirks". I can tolerate them since I like the car so much, though.
My 3 year old 4Runner, with 32,000 miles may be the next to go. Again, good vehicle, but I used it for towing. Don't need a tow vehicle any more.
jack,
If I had my choice of buying a car where either 1000 people drove the car 5 miles, which is highly unlikely, or, just 1 person who drove it 5000 miles across country which is also highly unlikely, I would quickly opt for the 1 person driving it 5000 miles across country because it is far less demanding on a car to get up to highway speeds and just continue to roll than the other way. Heck, if I knew it was driven cross country, I would be willing to pay more for the car but I’d never let the dealer know that.
Miles on cars, within reason, are not necessarily a curse and given the right deal I have no problem buying either a demo or used and I have several times.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
So a demo would fall into a weird gray area.
Carla,
Thanks for letting us know how it went. Looks like you got a very good deal. In fact, it looks like you got it all. Nobody could have done better. Maybe you'll want to come back here and pass on advice to others when they need it. That's the way we do it here.
BTW, we don't know everything, names give us our biggest problems.
Enjoy your 'new car' for a long time.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
And that, IMO, is just an arrogant display of obscene extravagance, no doubt engaged in by small men with large inferiority complexes.
More power to them ???...no, a pox on them.
More power to the single mom, working full time, and raising a couple of children.
And, oh.....by the way....I'm a single father that has raised my son, by myself, since birth. The whole single parent thing isn't confined to working mothers anymore.
You are entitled to your opinion, but the ones I know that do that I wouldn't voice that opinion. These are people of means who can enjoy the more better things in life. They are definently not small men and definitely don't have an inferiority complex. And you put a pox on them for being successful?
More power to the single mom, working full time, and raising a couple of children.
And even more power to her if she can get to the position where she can get a new car every year.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Not for being successful (that I totally applaud)...but for their obscene display of one upmanship...like "my toys are newer and more expensive than yours".
To each his own...however, I have noticed over my rather long lifetime that those who make ostentatious displays of wealth generally have serious inferiority complexes and/or other short comings.
But your experiences are different.
Who said anything about one upmanship? They work hard and take risks, for that they earned good money, and they want to enjoy the better things in life. Its not a case of "mine is better than yours" but a case of "I enjoy it and can afford it".
To each his own...however, I have noticed over my rather long lifetime that those who make ostentatious displays of wealth generally have serious inferiority complexes and/or other short comings.
How many very rich people do you know? My experience is that those that have the means to buy that new Caddy or Rover or whatever each and every year don't go flaunting it. Its the ones that are not rich that are leveraged to the hilt buying things that make them look rich that have the ostentatious displays of wealth. But they are living well beyond their means.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
OK, what determines who is very rich?
Of course, everyone has their own definition...
But,a poll taken among subscribers (read people of means") of the "Benefactor" publication defined "rich" as having >$10 million in assets and >$500,000 in annual income. Suffice to say I was polled.
....Its the ones that are not rich that are leveraged to the hilt buying things that make them look rich that have the ostentatious displays of wealth. But they are living well beyond their means....
Couldn't agree more. Perchance, they do that 'cause if they don't have an inferiority complex they have some other short coming....like living beyond their means.
Soooooooo, thanks for agreeing.
I knew you'd (laugh) come around sooner or later.
G2G.
I'm rich in blessings, friends, good family and good health. I am, indeed, a rich person. Money has never entered into judgement of wealth, though.
In this case lets say someone who can afford to buy a luxury car new each year without any economic stress.
Soooooooo, thanks for agreeing.
Who is agreeing with you? Certainly not me. I mentioned that I know people that buy new luxury cars each and every year. You were curing them with a pox and saying that they make ostentatious displays of wealth generally and have serious inferiority complexes and/or other short comings. I certinaly do not agree with that.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Why? Do you go around with $50 worth of singles with a few $20 on each end to make it look like you have a lot of money? Do you buy 10 year old Cadillacs at auction just so you can brag about owning a Caddy? Do you have a fake rollex and flash it to people every chance you get?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I know some very wealthy folks who wear phoney rolex's...when you really have money you don't have to impress anyone.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
10 year old Caddys? Nah! You get me one from the 40s oe even the 50s and I'd be all over it, though.
I've heard about these folks with "fake" Rolexs, but for the life of me, don't know where you would go to get one. Besides, my taste in watches runs more towards watches that are less....um....showy.
But, I did find a Seiko (not a prestige brand, I know) that's actually an automatic. It's one of their new ones, too. Seiko has made its name for making fine quartz watches. To my knowledge, automatics are a first for them (could be wrong on that count, though). It supposedly stores power for up to 4 years from your wrist movements....and automatically sets itself correctly (time/date) once you give it a couple of shakes....no matter how long it's gone unused. Intriguing.
Thanx
I'm wealthy yet I come here and talk to you and the other less fortunate's but now you've figured me out about the 'timex's' and I'll have to switch to my 'micky mouse's'.
If you go and ruin that for me, since I'm not good at reading that big light in the sky, I don't know how I'll be able to keep track of time after that?
You really messed me up when you revealed this to everybody.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
My personal reluctance to buy a demo vehicle is that I dont trust people to treat a car properly early in it's life, especially if they aren't going to buy the thing anyway.
I mean, if I am driving a loaner that eventually gets sold as a demo, maybe I don't care if the engine is warmed up before I hot-rod it. Maybe I don't care about the break in process because I know it's going back to it's owner shortly, and it aint my problem.
Maybe these issues aren't as important in a modern car as they used to be. I was taught that about 95% of the break in occurs in the first 5 minutes anyway. Thoughts??
I agree, and have often raised that question myself. Whether it be a demo, rental, lease return...whatever, if it ultimately is not going to be titled as my car... I'm going to rag the sucker out.
Strange.
Anytime I used a rental and I couldn't even begin to tell you how many times I did this when I was working, I always drove them as if they were my car. Never took any joy in destroying something just because it wasn't mine.
I wonder how I ever got to be like this, oh yeah, I must have gotten it from my parents.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Lets say you have a sample of an auto you are interested in. Maybe you would buy the thing, but how well does it really accelerate? How well does that stability control work? I don't abuse cars that don't belong to me, but plenty of folks do. Lotsa people get into the car, start the engine, put on belts, shift gears and take off all in one motion it seems.
If you loaned me your personal ride, I'd take it easier than I would my own car.
Anyway, the focus of my question is, say some jerk took the car out and did abuse it early in life. Would that behavior taint the car for me as a potential buyer later on?
A totally legitimate concern, particularly if your goal is to own the car for a long time.
The potential problems come from what happens (or doesn't happen) during the break-in period. If the engine is not properly broken in, engine problems are more likely to occur years down the road, because of the poor break-in. You may also end up with slightly worse fuel economy because of it.
IMO, I would be particularly concerned if you intend to own the car for a long time. Add even more worry if the car is a performance car (you can guess what fun people would have had with that), or isn't a model among the consistently-reliable-and-bulletproof variety, such as a Corolla or Accord.
But if you don't plan on owning it for very long, particularly if you have a warranty during your ownership period, I'd be less concerned. The problems won't likely manifest themselves that soon, so it's more likely that it is your buyer who would be the lucky one to inherent them.
But, there is a lithium battery replacement that can be installed which fixes it. About 2000 or so Seiko changed to the lithium battery. Of course, these will also die, but will have a longer life than the early capacitors.
But, I certainly never "destroyed" anything that wasn't mine. I always returned my rentals in exactly the same shape I recieved them.
To bad you don't treat people the same way you do cars.
I don't have an issue with demos. Maybe I'm too gullible, but I figure there's not much anyone can do to them that will cause them to break. Who wants to "red-line" a Taurus, anyway.
Now, if there's something obvious....like someone filled the trunk with cinderblocks to haul around, then I might change my mind.
You never fully explained yourself. However, I never even did this.
To bad you don't treat people the same way you do cars.
Oh yes I do. I'm nice to you, most of the time.
We'll talk again soon. OK ?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Yeah, I'll agree with that. I've always enjoyed your posts and sense of humor... and hope we can put this recent unpleasantness behind us. Which I think we've done.
In reguards to demos, I would be interested in looking at any studies comparing long term reliability between demos, rentals,leases... and private sales. Whether any exist or not I don't know (Don't really care to know that much to where I'm going to look it up :sick: ). I doubt there is much of a significance of difference. But, being conservative by nature... I probably wouldn't take the chance.
But, being conservative by nature... I probably wouldn't take the chance.
jip,
Go for it.
I’m pretty conservative myself and as I’ve said in an earlier post, I’ve purchased one demo and I’ve purchased many more used cars. As you know, a demo will save you some pretty good bucks and it will have a lot of miles still left on the warranty so I don’t think you’re taking any real chance there. Now if you want to save even more money and be more daring buy a 2 or 3 year old used car from an individual.
When buying a demo or a used car you can usually buy a more upscale model for less money than you might otherwise have been able to do if you bought new, that is, if you even wanted to move up a model or two. I know I took this into consideration when I bought a demo and used cars.
The only reason I bought new in 2005 and 2006 is because there was only a savings of a couple thousand dollars for the used models that I wanted and that was if they were in stock which they weren’t. So, as both dealers told me, if they didn’t have it on their lot and they had to find me one, the difference would be more. I know there is some salesmanship here but for the difference I opted for new.
This is the way I look at it; even if I buy a used car tomorrow and I have to put 5, 6, or 7 thousand dollars into repairs, over the years I have still saved gobs of money and have had very nice cars while I was doing it.
Do you really think I would try to lead you astray and have you smear my good reputation all over these boards? You know I wouldn’t do that.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I've been test driving cars for the last week and it's basically I've pretty much hated every single moment of it. Many of the car salesmen (and one woman) were very nice, but they all seemed very focused on showing me the cosmetic details of the cars. Now, I don't mind that, but only the Honda and Ford sales people even bothered to mention anything to do with the engine. Even when I've asked about the safety features and realiability of the cars, I've test driven. Basically, I feel as if I'm not being taken seriously. Any suggestions for how I can change the way I approach these dealerships?
My other question is that what is the best way to negiogate? In person or via email?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
They aren't product experts, they're just trying to push your hot buttons, get you hooked on the new car smell, and cajole you into BUYING TODAY. If pushed for technical details, a lot of what you'll hear will just be flat out wrong.
I wouldn't go a dealership expecting the salesperson to educate you about the cars. Do your own research about them -- you can learn quite a bit from the enthusiast magazines (Car and Driver, Road and Track, Automobile, and Motor Trend), the consumer magazines, such as Consumer Reports, and articles elsewhere here on Edmunds, among other sources.
Let the salesperson do his dance of showing you the car -- this is part of their sales process, and they'll want to do this, anyway -- with the understanding that much of what s/he says may not even be accurate. Frankly, I let them give me their tour, smile and nod, and just tune out half of it.
Well, not always so....just follow the "free" advice from pch101's (is that psychology101???) Msg.#907 and you'll
be smarter than probably 90% of all new car buyers.
The same goes for just about anything you buy...recently talked to several salepeople in BB and CC about a large screen HDTV. Only one young man out of about six or seven knew what he was talking about.
Whaddya mean by putting "free" in quotes. Are you saying that the check isn't in the mail ??
I sounds like I need to just be more direct than I am right now. Thanks for the advice...
I wouldn't be confrontational, that won't help. No need to show the guy/gal up for not knowing anything.
Obviously, you want to (and should) kick the tires and have a test drive, so go do that, and grin and bear it when it comes to dealing with the sales staff. In terms of asking questions, I would just see it as "going through the motions" that are inevitable in car buying.
Often times, I'll just pose questions that I know the answer to, just to see what kind of response I get. In part, I do this because it helps me to gauge whether the guy is a good at bluffing or not, which is useful to know for your negotiation. I can also use this Q&A process to make myself appear to be naive, which also helps later on when the real haggling begins.
The last two times I bought (05’ and 06’) I started with the internet but not because I’m afraid of walking into a dealership which I’m not saying you are but I decided to use the more modern approach first. I had a varied response just like you would get by going to the dealer but I saved a lot of time by not running around. The dealers that played games over the internet were quickly out of the running and like I said this saved a lot of time.
In 05’ after the initial internet price I got a call from the guy wanting to know when I’d like to come in. While his price was pretty good I told him he was still a little high and I wanted to wait for a response from all my requests. He said come on in and we could discuss this further, so since he was the closest guy, only 4 miles away, I said ok. BTW, by the time I went to this dealer later that day I received responses from all 5 of the dealers I e-mailed and only one was a little better (I think something like $200) and since he was the farthest away, I wasn’t really considering him at that price. To make a long story short, the dealer I went to met my price and I bought. Pretty painless.
In 06’ since I wanted to buy the same brand, while I was returning from some other shopping I went to the dealer where I purchased the 05’ but he didn’t have what I wanted in stock and wasn’t all that interested in finding me one although this was the same salesman I had already dealt with and I couldn’t really understand this. I guess he wasn’t as hungry this year so I was out the door just that fast. By the time I got home I had a response from an e-mail that I had sent out the day before. The price was pretty good but he was still over my price but I felt he was close enough that he might be willing to negotiate. So, I called the guy and told him my price and that it was firm and I only wanted one more price from him, mine. I was sure to remind him that it was either my price or no deal because I didn’t want to waste time, not even over the phone. He goes to a higher authority, calls me back (less than 20 minutes) and said he would meet my price but only for that day (be ready to hear this, it’s one of their favorites). Since I was ready to buy that day I bought. This purchase was even less painless than the 05’ purchase, so painless, that I’m going to try this method next time.
So it works both ways, just be sure of the price you want to spend and don’t get talked into something you don’t want. It’s really VERY simple and anybody who tells you differently just likes to make things difficult.
Good luck,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl