I understand the idea of profit. My point was I have never ask a teacher if they could teach my children for a discount. That goes for fireman, police, mailworker, etc...
No, your point was that a car salesman should be able to make a fair amount of money and any shopper who tries to buy a car for less than what the salesman would like to sell it for is taking money out of the saleman's pocket.
And that just AIN'T true. FAR from it!
The inference was justified because your implication was very clear. Read your post again. It's right there.
Why? I don't hold a dealer to a higher standard than I hold myself.
Because the dealer is supposively a professional and as such should be held to a higher standard than someone who is not. The same goes for my chosen profession. While there are aspects of it that anyone can, and does, do I would never hold then to the same standards that I should be held to.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I'm with isell, snake, and obyone on this first offer issue.
And I'm a consumer, not a salesman.
I still don't understand it actually; if I thoroughly research the car (such as using Edmunds and other free online sources and check the local dealer ads), decide on a price, and the salesperson accepts my first offer, that should be it. That's basically what Bobst does!
As for Mr. G, I believe a few weeks have gone by since that first offer. Have you found a better deal yet?
As for the guy complaining about all the dishonest dealerships he's dealt with for the last 30 years, you can name names here as well as the locations (city and state), per Edmunds' rules of the road. No one is going to sue you. (It wouldn't surprise me if most of these dealerships are now out of business or have new owners.)
I fully understand the intent of my posting. I also understand the different points of view of the salesman and the buyer. I don't understand the buyer thinking that the seller trying to make a profit as cheating them somehow. If those seller where to sell there house, I'm sure they would try to get as much as they can. Same thing.
"...dealer is supposedly a professional...(to)... be held to a higher standard..."
By dealer, do you mean the salesman? or the sales manager? or the general manager? or the dealership owner?
Where you let yourself in for disappointment is if you confer "professional" status on that salesman who is usually the one to break away from that group of young men joking around and backslapping each other and runs up and helps you open your door the moment you stop your car on a lot. (Was he the one who called and reneged on that offer in a previous post?)
Here's what Merriam Webster online shows: profession 1 : the act of taking the vows of a religious community
2 : an act of openly declaring or publicly claiming a belief, faith, or opinion : PROTESTATION
3 : an avowed religious faith
4 a : a calling requiring specialized knowledge and often long and intensive academic preparation b : a principal calling, vocation, or employment c : the whole body of persons engaged in a calling
So if you are thinking of that guy who gladhands you as he yanks the cardoor out of your grasp, remember that he is often no more a professional than is the guy who mows your lawn every week or the lady who tidies up your house each Tuesday. The only similarity between most car salesmen and most professionals is that they all usually wear ironed shirts to the jobsite.
So, I guess what I'm saying is don't have overly high expectations about all the people you'll meet when you go out carshopping.
Lots of nice people work in all sorts of jobs, but let's not go around calling anyone with a job a professional (even though definitions 4b and 4c would allow it. It just waters down the language unnecessarily.
OK then, how about telling me why you'd include this in your post:
"...All of the people who feel cheated from car dealers, how would you like it if everyday someone tried to get you to do your job for less money?..."
How do you figure that any buyer has ever tried to get a salesperson to do his job for less money? (And remember that until a salesperson actually sells the car, he has no income at all.)
It depends on the type of dealership, the type of car you are talking about and the salesperson that is all. Some sales people consider themselves professionals and therefore act accordingly.
Isell is a professional. LRguy is also a professional.
By dealer, do you mean the salesman? or the sales manager? or the general manager? or the dealership owner?
Yes.
Where you let yourself in for disappointment is if you confer "professional" status on that salesman
Regardless of what you may want to believe that salesman is a professional.
Here's what Merriam Webster online shows:
Instead of looking up profession look up professional. I find it interesting that you use the definition of a different word to try to defeat my point.
So, I guess what I'm saying is don't have overly high expectations about all the people you'll meet when you go out carshopping.
Since they are professionals I will hold them to a higher standard than the guy who goes out and buys a new car every two to ten years.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
If you were in the market for a used car...say a Honda...and found one in the classified ads selling for say $8K. You visit the owner, take the car for a spin and offer the guy $7K. The guy agrees without hesitation. What do you do now?
It seems interesting the number of bitter non buyer who complain constantly. I have never had a problem finding a dealer to make a deal. If I don't like there practices I move on to another dealer. I have always been happy with the deals I've done. I have good credit, and deal with them in a straight and honest manner. I'm willing to walk away if I feel they are playing the game.
I'm neither directing insults nor attempting to lump all of anyone together. And even if someone did end up feeling insulted when reading my posts, it is not my intent. I'm just commenting on those of the type I described in my posts, and that I saw in other posts here. Not all car salesmen, I said most. And if you want to you can change that to many as you read it. Few car dealerships require extensive training, advanced courses or degrees of most of their newly hired salesmen. The majority of car dealerships in large cities do have very high turnover in their sales force. I don't think I'd be surprised at all with your background; you are probably a very celebrated and highly credentialed man who has led an extraordinary life. I also guess it would not be boring. But most of the salespeople I was describing or responding about do not have your background or accomplishments.
I'm not complaining, just observing and commenting.
Yeah, I'm using the more common and early noted defintions of profession and professional. The ones that DO require advanced courses of specialized study. And in those cases, using the word professional or profession makes no difference at all. Same root word, same requirements.
But yes, I appreciate the other definitions too, I was just not focusing in on them. I'd be really happy if all car salespeople displayed the following "professional" behavior: exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace. That would be fine. But that does not make them professionals within the definition I was referring to.
How do you figure that any buyer has ever tried to get a salesperson to do his job for less money?
All people who buy goods and services try to get the lowest price possible. The lower the sales price the less the provider of goods and services earns. Therefore, all people try to get the other guy or gal to make as little as possible off of them. It's called syllogism and it's also enough!
I'm also declaring it OFF TOPIC to continue berating and deriding whole classes of people including customers and salespeople. It's not helpful.
I'm planning on buying a small SUV, putting about half down, getting a 4 year loan and getting the best incentives I can.
If I decide to trade that vehicle in August 2008, what would the penalties be?
Let's say I bought the car this year at dealer A and traded with dealer B? Would that be more difficult that if I traded the car with the same dealer I bought from?
How would all that work?
Let's say the car cost $30k and I put down $15k. At the end of the first year, I still owe about $12k when I trade it in...how does that work?
Also, what if I came into some money in a year and decided to payoff the loan. What penalties would be involved?
What if I paid another $5k in January. Would that lower my monthly payment? Or would it just shorten the term of the loan? Or would they not let that happen?
If you buy a car and decide to trade in in less than a year you will take a big hit on it.
Let's say you owe $12k on it at trade in time, you might have some equity in it, depending on the car's value.
It's almost impossible to predict what it will be worth in a year. New auction guides and dealer black books are issued every week, every two weeks, and every month, because the market changes that often.
If you buy from dealer A, and trade in at dealer B, there shouldn't be much discrpetancy as long as both dealers are the same brand.
If you pay off the loan early most finance branches of car manufacturers (ie Honda Finance, Nissan, Toyota etc) will let you do that without penalties. If you put money into your loan the balance will not be refinanced, it will just shorten your term.
However the questions you have are very hard to answer due to the fact that every make has their own finance policies, and values of used car fluctuate often. Imports generally have better trade-in/resale values than domestics. If you buy a first year model, you will also lose more than on a 3rd oir 4th year model because there's usually no incentives on first year models, but there are incentives on second yuear and so on. Any incentives on new cars will have an affect on your trade in value of that same model.
Quck question: why do you think you will not be keeping the car beyond the first year?
The ones that DO require advanced courses of specialized study.
That begs the question of what is an advanced course(s) of specialized study? While someone like me (I am a CPA) does have a considerable amount of that but is that whats required? I would suspect that the majority of car sales professionals have studied their chosen profession far more than the average joe.
Secondly a series of advanced specialized studies do not make a professional. I have attained much in of advanced study in the area of playing golf, however I am in no way shape or form a pro golfer.
I'd be really happy if all car salespeople displayed the following "professional" behavior:
Unfortunately being a professional and exhibiting professional behavior are two different animals.
I would think for these purposes a professional would be someone who is in a particular activity for the intent to provide the majority of their income.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
and the purveyors of it need to stop. Let's focus on helping members get a good deal rather than on what we think of the sales profession and those who practice it, regardless of what your definition might be.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
if you dont care about resale buy a 2 year old american car and run it for 10 years...i just want a car that runs at a lower price...i saw a 2006 taurus for 9700$....i would buy that car, i think it is underrated...and save a lot of money...let someone else take the 7k ------- buying new
That is a good point, it depends on how open someone is to getting "the best deal." If its a matter of getting the best deal on a particular vehicle, the strategy is different than just getting the best deal on transportation period. I have done the "couple year old domestic car" thing a few times and its worked out well for me, but I was reasonably particular about which car it was. The cars were all about 2 years old and had less than 30k while being half the cost of new.
if you dont care about resale buy a 2 year old american car and run it for 10 years...i just want a car that runs at a lower price...i saw a 2006 taurus for 9700$...
If you plan to hold the car until it dies, there is really little difference in total costs between buying a 2-3 year old used car OR a new car.
My friend who STILL drives his 1992 Toyota Camry (for 15 years) has done better on a cost per mile basis than I have with the three used American cars that I have owned in the same period. (And both of us do better than 80% of people.)
It depends on if you are measuring cost/year or cost/mile. Buying something that is 7-10k cheaper than a comparable vehicle and amortizing it over time still makes it look pretty good over a 10 year stretch. I guess this only holds true for vehicles in the same segment. If you were looking at a 2-3 year old Jaguar and comparing it to a new Corolla or Elantra, the argument doesn't hold up (yes that was an extreme example on a lot of levels).
I'm relieved to read this since I have a used car for sale! I was beginning to think that I might lose a sale by turning down a perfectly good offer. A fair offer can now be accepted without worrying about you being the buyer. Thanks for sharing!
The truth is that money is still money. We work, slave, sweat, or maybe not so much depending upon what sort of job you have... But it's a finite resource given that it takes time out of our lives to make it.
So unless you're getting a vehicle as a business expense that you can write off, it's always better to buy a couple of years used. A previous post said that there's hardly nay difference between buying new or used if you plan to keep it forever. Well, nothing could be more wrong than that sort of thinking when it comes to vehicles.
Say you buy a new car for $20K. Honestly, there's no reason to ever pay more for a car than that, even new, if you just want basic transportation. The problem is people think about how much over say, ten years, but there's a bigger problem. How much debt load you are carrying at the moment. If you have, say, $3000 a month after taxes for everything in your life(average income for most people in the U.S.) - well, you pay your house payment of $1500, you buy food, you pay for clothes, gas, all of the oter things in your life... You have, say, $500 a month spending cash.
Well, the bank isn't going to let you normally pay over ten years - not without reaming you on the combined interest, so there'a a massive difference bewtween a $250 a month payment and a $400 a month payment in terms of how much leeway you have for emergencies(or to save or whatever). With the less expensive vehicle, you also can pay it off quicker if you want.
You never know what might happen in the next few years, so keeping as little of your money tied up in things that don't appreciate in value like real estate or your 401K or similar is very wise.
But if you look at the larger picture, most people in their lifetimes own about ten cars, or about twenty if you are married and have kids(teenage drivers can go through a few right here - lol)
If you spend $10K more on every car over your lifetime because you have to have it "new"(don't forget interest on the loan and such), that's an enormous amount of money if you just invested it.(well over a million in 60-70 years).
It won't make you rich buying used cars, but having new cars every few years certainly can make you poor.
This is my preference to not buy from private owners, some people may find it less stressful to purchase from private owners, this was in no way taking a hit at private owners who sell their cars/trucks.
It depends on if you are measuring cost/year or cost/mile. Buying something that is 7-10k cheaper than a comparable vehicle and amortizing it over time still makes it look pretty good over a 10 year stretch.
And if you buy the older vehicle, you pay less in depreciation BUT you pay more in repairs and maintenance which are minimal in the miles that you purchased when buying new.
Over a long term ownership, the costs converge.
Now if you change cars every three or four years, then it is cheaper in many cases to buy used.
Some people can have their cake and eat it too. If you can buy a new car with a long warranty cheaply enough, drive it for a few years, and then sell it while it still has a factory warranty, you can drive it for a very low cost per mile. But to accomplish that, you also have to find a buyer who will pay a lot when he buys your used car from you. It is not impossible.
And if you buy the older vehicle, you pay less in depreciation BUT you pay more in repairs and maintenance which are minimal in the miles that you purchased when buying new.
This has not been my experience. At 10 years/150k miles I expect more issues, new or used. I maintain my vehicles to a very high standard, but I have had very good luck with my cars overall. I also tend to do the work myself, which also offsets maintenance costs. Other than a Caravan transmission (that was replaced under warranty), I have never had a major component failure in the 10 yr/150k time frame.
Because it is a domestic and I am pretty sure buick has 1.9 percent or better available on all their models right now. Why tie up 30,000 dollars or more in a car when you could finance that money and keep your 30 grand in a money market account. Just set up auto payment from that money market account and never worry about it. Over the course of the loan I am sure you will come out ahead.
I think jlawrence is making a good point that you're not addressing...
Say you are in the market for a vehicle, and know you want to keep it for 10 years/150K miles.
For simplicity, say you have two options: Buy a new car with 0 miles or spend several grand less and buy a used car with 50K miles.
When buying used, you miss out on all of the early trouble/maintenance free miles. A 50k mile used car will require routine maintenance soon, unlike a new car.
Secondly, you state that At 10 years/150k miles I expect more issues, new or used. However, the new car would have 150k miles, while the comparable used car would have 200k miles.
Surely you would agree that a 200K mile car would require more maintenance than a 150K mile car.
In some states, such as ours, the buyer pays no sales tax if he buys from a private owner. Otherwise, sales tax in the city is 8.1%. Just curious, would you still avoid purchasing from private owners under these circumstances?
Ahh I got it. Yeah I can definitely see that. When I was saying 10 years/150k I was thinking total mileage, not necessarily whatever mileage it had before plus 10 years/150k.
In my case, the cars were less than 2 years old, had less than 30k and were about 1/2 price of new (a Mitsubishi Galant, a couple of Mercury Tracers, and a Contour). Because they were 2 years old, there was also an insurance savings. Each one was driven for about 8 years and 120k or so. As they say, YMMV but this worked very well for me and my siblings.
"...the buyer pays no sales tax if he buys from a private owner..."
You must not live in NY. Here they will hunt you down and if you die before they find you, they will dig you up and go through your pockets for loose change.
What state are you in...I'll be right over.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
For simplicity, say you have two options: Buy a new car with 0 miles or spend several grand less and buy a used car with 50K miles.
Actually, it's: Buy a new car with 0 miles or spend 60% as much for a car with only 25-30K on it and the remainder of the factory warranty as it is 1-2 years old.
Note how I've never said that cars like a Honda Civic are good used values. You want a big piece of Detroit steel that depreciates like used gym socks.
2007 Pontiac Grand Prix - $12,988 (dealer's asking price, 20K miles - cars.com)
Gosh - that's not even a YEAR old, has the vast majority of the new GM 100K warranty on the drivetrain left, and I bet you could get him to let it go for a few hundred less than he's asking. It's actually a nice car as well. GM's 3800 engine plus traction control and a 1.2.3.D type shifter on the floor(all in a row for easy manu-matic driving.)
New body all aluminum Jag for under 25k I am suspicious of that one though. Would want a Jag dealership or shop to check those out. The last one still has factory warranty left.
You are taking a chance that you are buying a damaged or poorly performing vehicle when you buy used. Some people can do that and good for them. Me? I'll just take the new one,maintain it,and drive it forever. Different strokes.
I agree there is a risk with buying a used car, although similar risks are still there for new cars. A "CarFax" will show if it was a manufacturer buy-back (Lemon law car, etc) and has a reasonably good chance of showing if the vehicle was in an collision.
I know 2 people who bought cars that had been damaged prior to delivery, and those were new vehicles. I also know of "troublesome" new vehicles, although not as common as they once were.
Comments
And that just AIN'T true. FAR from it!
The inference was justified because your implication was very clear. Read your post again. It's right there.
And, you CAN get your first offer accepted. Just make an offer that makes sense. I don't like drawn out deals either, I'm simply too busy for that!
In the post that started this whole thing, the poster did have his first offer accepted, just like you would like.
The store's thanks for doing this and trying to make things easy and simple was him regegging on his offer!
Kind of ironic, isn't it?
Because the dealer is supposively a professional and as such should be held to a higher standard than someone who is not. The same goes for my chosen profession. While there are aspects of it that anyone can, and does, do I would never hold then to the same standards that I should be held to.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
And I'm a consumer, not a salesman.
I still don't understand it actually; if I thoroughly research the car (such as using Edmunds and other free online sources and check the local dealer ads), decide on a price, and the salesperson accepts my first offer, that should be it. That's basically what Bobst does!
As for Mr. G, I believe a few weeks have gone by since that first offer. Have you found a better deal yet?
As for the guy complaining about all the dishonest dealerships he's dealt with for the last 30 years, you can name names here as well as the locations (city and state), per Edmunds' rules of the road. No one is going to sue you. (It wouldn't surprise me if most of these dealerships are now out of business or have new owners.)
By dealer, do you mean the salesman? or the sales manager? or the general manager? or the dealership owner?
Where you let yourself in for disappointment is if you confer "professional" status on that salesman who is usually the one to break away from that group of young men joking around and backslapping each other and runs up and helps you open your door the moment you stop your car on a lot. (Was he the one who called and reneged on that offer in a previous post?)
Here's what Merriam Webster online shows:
profession
1 : the act of taking the vows of a religious community
2 : an act of openly declaring or publicly claiming a belief, faith, or opinion : PROTESTATION
3 : an avowed religious faith
4
a : a calling requiring specialized knowledge and often long and intensive academic preparation
b : a principal calling, vocation, or employment
c : the whole body of persons engaged in a calling
So if you are thinking of that guy who gladhands you as he yanks the cardoor out of your grasp, remember that he is often no more a professional than is the guy who mows your lawn every week or the lady who tidies up your house each Tuesday. The only similarity between most car salesmen and most professionals is that they all usually wear ironed shirts to the jobsite.
So, I guess what I'm saying is don't have overly high expectations about all the people you'll meet when you go out carshopping.
Lots of nice people work in all sorts of jobs, but let's not go around calling anyone with a job a professional (even though definitions 4b and 4c would allow it.
It just waters down the language unnecessarily.
I don't know, maybe it's a PC thing.
"...All of the people who feel cheated from car dealers, how would you like it if everyday someone tried to get you to do your job for less money?..."
How do you figure that any buyer has ever tried to get a salesperson to do his job for less money? (And remember that until a salesperson actually sells the car, he has no income at all.)
Isell is a professional. LRguy is also a professional.
I guess I am sometimes.
Not all stores are Liner- Closer snakepits that turn over half of their staff on a monthly basis.
You might want to stop and consider who you are insulting when you attempt to lump us all together.
Yes.
Where you let yourself in for disappointment is if you confer "professional" status on that salesman
Regardless of what you may want to believe that salesman is a professional.
Here's what Merriam Webster online shows:
Instead of looking up profession look up professional. I find it interesting that you use the definition of a different word to try to defeat my point.
So, I guess what I'm saying is don't have overly high expectations about all the people you'll meet when you go out carshopping.
Since they are professionals I will hold them to a higher standard than the guy who goes out and buys a new car every two to ten years.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
If you were in the market for a used car...say a Honda...and found one in the classified ads selling for say $8K. You visit the owner, take the car for a spin and offer the guy $7K. The guy agrees without hesitation. What do you do now?
I'm just commenting on those of the type I described in my posts, and that I saw in other posts here. Not all car salesmen, I said most. And if you want to you can change that to many as you read it.
Few car dealerships require extensive training, advanced courses or degrees of most of their newly hired salesmen. The majority of car dealerships in large cities do have very high turnover in their sales force.
I don't think I'd be surprised at all with your background; you are probably a very celebrated and highly credentialed man who has led an extraordinary life. I also guess it would not be boring. But most of the salespeople I was describing or responding about do not have your background or accomplishments.
I'm not complaining, just observing and commenting.
But yes, I appreciate the other definitions too, I was just not focusing in on them. I'd be really happy if all car salespeople displayed the following "professional" behavior:
exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace. That would be fine. But that does not make them professionals within the definition I was referring to.
All people who buy goods and services try to get the lowest price possible. The lower the sales price the less the provider of goods and services earns. Therefore, all people try to get the other guy or gal to make as little as possible off of them. It's called syllogism and it's also enough!
I'm also declaring it OFF TOPIC to continue berating and deriding whole classes of people including customers and salespeople. It's not helpful.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
I'm planning on buying a small SUV, putting about half down, getting a 4 year loan and getting the best incentives I can.
If I decide to trade that vehicle in August 2008, what would the penalties be?
Let's say I bought the car this year at dealer A and traded with dealer B? Would that be more difficult that if I traded the car with the same dealer I bought from?
How would all that work?
Let's say the car cost $30k and I put down $15k. At the end of the first year, I still owe about $12k when I trade it in...how does that work?
Also, what if I came into some money in a year and decided to payoff the loan. What penalties would be involved?
What if I paid another $5k in January. Would that lower my monthly payment? Or would it just shorten the term of the loan? Or would they not let that happen?
Thanks for the help in advance!
Let's say you owe $12k on it at trade in time, you might have some equity in it, depending on the car's value.
It's almost impossible to predict what it will be worth in a year. New auction guides and dealer black books are issued every week, every two weeks, and every month, because the market changes that often.
If you buy from dealer A, and trade in at dealer B, there shouldn't be much discrpetancy as long as both dealers are the same brand.
If you pay off the loan early most finance branches of car manufacturers (ie Honda Finance, Nissan, Toyota etc) will let you do that without penalties. If you put money into your loan the balance will not be refinanced, it will just shorten your term.
However the questions you have are very hard to answer due to the fact that every make has their own finance policies, and values of used car fluctuate often. Imports generally have better trade-in/resale values than domestics. If you buy a first year model, you will also lose more than on a 3rd oir 4th year model because there's usually no incentives on first year models, but there are incentives on second yuear and so on. Any incentives on new cars will have an affect on your trade in value of that same model.
Quck question: why do you think you will not be keeping the car beyond the first year?
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I generally do get my first offer accepted, it's just that it takes 15 or 20 minutes of dancing.
That begs the question of what is an advanced course(s) of specialized study? While someone like me (I am a CPA) does have a considerable amount of that but is that whats required? I would suspect that the majority of car sales professionals have studied their chosen profession far more than the average joe.
Secondly a series of advanced specialized studies do not make a professional. I have attained much in of advanced study in the area of playing golf, however I am in no way shape or form a pro golfer.
I'd be really happy if all car salespeople displayed the following "professional" behavior:
Unfortunately being a professional and exhibiting professional behavior are two different animals.
I would think for these purposes a professional would be someone who is in a particular activity for the intent to provide the majority of their income.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
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If you plan to hold the car until it dies, there is really little difference in total costs between buying a 2-3 year old used car OR a new car.
My friend who STILL drives his 1992 Toyota Camry (for 15 years) has done better on a cost per mile basis than I have with the three used American cars that I have owned in the same period. (And both of us do better than 80% of people.)
I guess this only holds true for vehicles in the same segment. If you were looking at a 2-3 year old Jaguar and comparing it to a new Corolla or Elantra, the argument doesn't hold up (yes that was an extreme example on a lot of levels).
Reason for trading in: need a car now, but car x for 2007 doesn't have some features that the 2008 has.
But your advice puts me off a trade like that.
Which is what these forums are for...so job well done.
I'm relieved to read this since I have a used car for sale! I was beginning to think that I might lose a sale by turning down a perfectly good offer. A fair offer can now be accepted without worrying about you being the buyer. Thanks for sharing!
So unless you're getting a vehicle as a business expense that you can write off, it's always better to buy a couple of years used. A previous post said that there's hardly nay difference between buying new or used if you plan to keep it forever. Well, nothing could be more wrong than that sort of thinking when it comes to vehicles.
Say you buy a new car for $20K. Honestly, there's no reason to ever pay more for a car than that, even new, if you just want basic transportation. The problem is people think about how much over say, ten years, but there's a bigger problem. How much debt load you are carrying at the moment. If you have, say, $3000 a month after taxes for everything in your life(average income for most people in the U.S.) - well, you pay your house payment of $1500, you buy food, you pay for clothes, gas, all of the oter things in your life... You have, say, $500 a month spending cash.
Well, the bank isn't going to let you normally pay over ten years - not without reaming you on the combined interest, so there'a a massive difference bewtween a $250 a month payment and a $400 a month payment in terms of how much leeway you have for emergencies(or to save or whatever). With the less expensive vehicle, you also can pay it off quicker if you want.
You never know what might happen in the next few years, so keeping as little of your money tied up in things that don't appreciate in value like real estate or your 401K or similar is very wise.
But if you look at the larger picture, most people in their lifetimes own about ten cars, or about twenty if you are married and have kids(teenage drivers can go through a few right here - lol)
If you spend $10K more on every car over your lifetime because you have to have it "new"(don't forget interest on the loan and such), that's an enormous amount of money if you just invested it.(well over a million in 60-70 years).
It won't make you rich buying used cars, but having new cars every few years certainly can make you poor.
I leased the Caddy I have because I can write it off, but as a rule, buying a brand new car is foolish much of the time.
Neighbor of mine Bought, for cash, a brand new Buick. He must be on crack.
And if you buy the older vehicle, you pay less in depreciation BUT you pay more in repairs and maintenance which are minimal in the miles that you purchased when buying new.
Over a long term ownership, the costs converge.
Now if you change cars every three or four years, then it is cheaper in many cases to buy used.
If you can buy a new car with a long warranty cheaply enough, drive it for a few years, and then sell it while it still has a factory warranty, you can drive it for a very low cost per mile. But to accomplish that, you also have to find a buyer who will pay a lot when he buys your used car from you. It is not impossible.
If he can afford to write a check for that Buick and he plans to hang on to it for a long time, why not?
Not everyone wants to rent (lease) their cars or have continual payments.
This has not been my experience. At 10 years/150k miles I expect more issues, new or used. I maintain my vehicles to a very high standard, but I have had very good luck with my cars overall. I also tend to do the work myself, which also offsets maintenance costs.
Other than a Caravan transmission (that was replaced under warranty), I have never had a major component failure in the 10 yr/150k time frame.
I think jlawrence is making a good point that you're not addressing...
Say you are in the market for a vehicle, and know you want to keep it for 10 years/150K miles.
For simplicity, say you have two options: Buy a new car with 0 miles or spend several grand less and buy a used car with 50K miles.
When buying used, you miss out on all of the early trouble/maintenance free miles. A 50k mile used car will require routine maintenance soon, unlike a new car.
Secondly, you state that At 10 years/150k miles I expect more issues, new or used. However, the new car would have 150k miles, while the comparable used car would have 200k miles.
Surely you would agree that a 200K mile car would require more maintenance than a 150K mile car.
In my case, the cars were less than 2 years old, had less than 30k and were about 1/2 price of new (a Mitsubishi Galant, a couple of Mercury Tracers, and a Contour). Because they were 2 years old, there was also an insurance savings. Each one was driven for about 8 years and 120k or so. As they say, YMMV but this worked very well for me and my siblings.
You must not live in NY. Here they will hunt you down and if you die before they find you, they will dig you up and go through your pockets for loose change.
What state are you in...I'll be right over.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I mean, I coulda run down to Manheim and got him the same car with 10k on the clock.. 07 model and all for $12k less probably.
I'd look great in a Lucerne...
Actually, it's:
Buy a new car with 0 miles or spend 60% as much for a car with only 25-30K on it and the remainder of the factory warranty as it is 1-2 years old.
Note how I've never said that cars like a Honda Civic are good used values. You want a big piece of Detroit steel that depreciates like used gym socks.
2007 Pontiac Grand Prix - $12,988
(dealer's asking price, 20K miles - cars.com)
Gosh - that's not even a YEAR old, has the vast majority of the new GM 100K warranty on the drivetrain left, and I bet you could get him to let it go for a few hundred less than he's asking. It's actually a nice car as well. GM's 3800 engine plus traction control and a 1.2.3.D type shifter on the floor(all in a row for easy manu-matic driving.)
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=223987380
Less than $10K for a two year old(or just about) LS. Yes, it's a big boat, but that's a huge amount of depreciation.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=224073987
It even works with big, fancy cars.
(2001 S430 with 31K on it - $23,500)
I wasn't kidding when I said you hardly ever have to spend more than $20K on a car. :P
The S430 kind of scars me though they can be expensive cars if they weren't maintained.
My favorite cheap lux cars are Jags... Huge depreciation and much more reliable then most people think.
Old body XJR for 22,000 List with just 50,000 miles.
XJR
another one for 18,900
New body all aluminum Jag for under 25k I am suspicious of that one though. Would want a Jag dealership or shop to check those out. The last one still has factory warranty left.
I know 2 people who bought cars that had been damaged prior to delivery, and those were new vehicles. I also know of "troublesome" new vehicles, although not as common as they once were.