Warm chocolate milk does the trick Answer (net number) verified several ways without going through the proverbial DMV (Department of Morons in Volumes) :shades:
Since there's plenty of advice avaialable on this forum, I hope you folks can share some with me.
After September 1st, I plane to buy a new GMC 2500 HD diesel 4WD SLT crew cab, long box. I live in S/W Arizona and our one GMC dealer has the attitude all the other dealers in town have. "Take it or leave it." Since I don't care how far I have to travel to make my best deal, does anyone have a suggestion how to go about checking the price nation wide? I know the Kelly BB price, the Consumer Reports price and I know within about $1500 what I'm willing to pay. I've never bought through the internet and it's crap shoot trying to check dealer inventories state by state. There HAS to be a better way to achieve what I'm trying to do. Any advice or suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated.
Go to the bow tie web site and start searching for dealers by zip code. Start out in 100 mile radius of where you live. if that don't work branch out 200 miles, keep adding a 100 mile radius to your search each time till you find what you want.
First things first. What was the highest real money offer you made in writing, signed by you, in a sales office, while trying to buy the truck you want near your home?
I am going to be buying a car in the Colorado Springs area in a couple of weeks. either a Ford Fusion or Mazda3. My wife just started working at Ford Credit, so we will get some type of "employee" pricing. After offering "employee" plans a couple of years ago, is "employee" pricing a good deal or not? Also, can anyone advise what is "A plan, X plan, etc.." Thanks for any advice. I have just joined Edmunds and find it is all a good read. Again, thanks...
A-plan is 4% back of dealer cost. I pulled the programs for your area and right now you have 2.9% on 60 months plus an extra $500 rebate because you are a plan customer. Or you can get a total of $1500 in rebates with no special rate.
A-plan is a great deal, you can buy a fully loaded SEL fusion that list for $25600 for $22517, or if you don't use the 2.9% it would be $21517.
Joel, So is it that employees of Ford are eligible to participate in the 'A' plan, and other company vendors are eligible to participate in 'X' plan (if on the approved supplier list)?
I know my company has a deal with Ford (I don't remember which plan letter it was), where I walked in couple years ago, showed them my badge from my company, they gave me the special invoice with the plan info on it, and we closed the deal in minutes on the vehicle I selected. It was the easiest deal that I have ever done in 35 years of buying vehicles! Between that and some end of year and finance rebates that were availabile, I got one heck of a deal.
Some people will put themselves through in their frantic attempts to not pay one nickle more for a car than someone else "might" have.
The other day, one of my people made a mistake. It was her fault. She's new and doing a great job but she made a pricing error on a new Odyssey.
Still, for this customer, it wasn't enough. She wanted even more.
I agreed to honor the price that she was quoted even though it would have been a 1200.00 loser for our store. We have a great reputation and we do what we say we are going to do.
Despite her reams of research material, she didn't believe me. She thought something was wrong. She demanded another 500.00 off the already 1200.00 loser.
Finally, I was out of patience. I am very busy and my patience only go's so far.
I told her that we had made a mistake but we would honor the price we quoted her. I also told her that if she left, we would no longer honor that price.
She didn't believe me and she left. She spent the rest of the day driving from Honda dealer to Honda dealer trying to beat my number.
The next day, she called me wanting to know if we would sell that Odyssey to her for the wrong price we had quoted her.
oldfarmer....if the price the next day was $500 higher than the day before, the dealership just lost a sale. Their loss. I'm sure another dealer would have been willing to make the original deal. If one will do it, most will match.
Regarding the guy who made an offer and had it accepted, only to "re-think" the deal, once you walk out of the showroom with no new car, the negotiations start all over again. Sometimes you can overthink a deal, and you'll miss a good one by doing so.
If they've met your price, what's holding you back from making the deal? What difference does it make? You can shop the offer all over town, but at some point it becomes counter productive by doing so. You may save $50 by doing so, but you'll spend time and $75 worth of gas to find out.
She had her chance and I gave her every opportunity to take advantage of our error.
I knew she wouldn't give us the satisfaction of coming back and paying more for that Odyssey but I'm sure she paid an extra 1500.00 over what we would have sold it to her for because of our mistake.
I'd bet she's heard the "sorry we made a mistake" many times before, only in the past the mistake was in the dealer's favor and she ended up paying more. Thus her distrust of dealers and not believing you. It's unfortunate but I can see how things like this happen.
I commend you for honoring the original price even though it was a loser. I've been involved in a situation where the dealer refused to honor his original price when they realized an error that was against them.
I don't see anything wrong with re negotiating a deal at different dealerships instead of accepting the first deal and find out later you did not get the best deal and could've saved more money by visiting other dealerships, I don't see where this is an issue.
No what i meant was back in my earlier postings is I gave a salesman my offer he accepted my offer without hesitation, since he accepted without hesitation i feel i left money on the table at that dealership and i need to shop around to other dealers with a different offer.
I highly doubt the salesman was trying to streamline the process, he's basically out to make as much money on the deal as he can and i'm trying to save as much as i can, thats why I shop around there isn't any reneging going on here, nothing is signed nor any car is driven off the lot to be driven home.
I wonder what you would have done if the dealer had accepted your offer, shook hands on the deal and then backed out thinking that just maybe the next customer would just maybe pay a bit more?
We all live by our own value system I suppose.
I'll let the others respond to you...maybe it's me?
I'm sure all of the other dealer salespeople will jump on me as they've done before, all I can say is I never leave money on the table. Maybe most Honda customers never negotiate pricing :confuse:
I don't think this has anything to do with a salesperson responding. I think ANYONE who was taught the value of a handshake or a verbal commitment will feel as I do.
But maybe the world has changed?
Yeah, it's all about the almighty dollar...scruples? who cares?
Maybe most Honda customers never negotiate pricing
I think the point is that you aren't talking about negotiating... at least not using the definition most of us would use. You offered a price and it was accepted. Negotiating would be you (or the salesperson) NOT agreeing and then there would be the usual offer/counter offer.
BTW, I'm not in sales of any kind. You reneged on the deal. If the salesperson made you a screaming offer that you accepted and then turned around and said "nevermind", I have a feeling you'd be pretty upset.
I don't think this has anything to do with a salesperson responding. I think ANYONE who was taught the value of a handshake or a verbal commitment will feel as I do. But maybe the world has changed? Yeah, it's all about the almighty dollar...scruples? who cares?
Wow you must work for a dealer unlike I have ever been to before. I have more dealers pull more scams and stunts on me for simple cash sales than I can think of. Honda dealers, heck I had one dealership tell me I couldn't AFFORD a new honda and I should go any buy a used one somewhere as all they had was expensive used cars on the lot and the attitude was the worst I'd ever seen high snob factor because I was working in Tool & Die and was on a big job and took my entire lunch hour and we rarely got more than 15 minute lunches as we had so much work at that time and I was in jeans and a T-shirt and I neverforgot that and yes I could name teh dealership but won't. I walked out and bought a Chevy Monte Carlo SS for less money I made a helluva lot more than taht salesman ever did. Back then I was probably at about $800 per week. Complaining to his sales manager was even worse! They have lost all sales from me for life! I've had dealerships wait until the check is being handed to them by me and they claim "Oh we made a $1,200 mistake!!!" Yeah a signed agreement, trade in title already signed over to them. Yeah amazing how many cars I've bought and how many dealers take advantage of their customers which is why i don't blame people for trying to get the price down to the last penny! Signed contracts and handshakes? How 1800's of you because you and I both know that to a car dealer the handshake works only in HIS favor not in the customers favor and that when push comes to shove you dealers are going to want to see everything in writing. I've played this game many many times and I've owned a lot of cars maybe 32 new cars and more beaters than I care to think about. Small wonder people don't trust dealers and why don't you guys actually write the quote down on your own company paperwork?! Because you know the customer will shop it around and if you were so low in price or your price was so great then why worry? Because selling cars is a cut throat business and consumers are tired of it so they automatically start off not trusting the dealership and for good reason. I could write a book like the guy who traded his ford LTD in every 2 years with about 24 k on the clock and they'd give him 35% of that vehicle towards the price of a new one and the car was immaculate! The guy was retired and drove only locally and had that dealer maintain it. Yeah they ripped him off and he's still buying from them. If he sold those cars privately he's get 70% of the purchase price easily! The world has changed. I love it when car dealers advertise low prices in the newspapers in huge font numbers and you go in to buy the car for that and then find out to get the advertised price you have to have 3 conflicting incentive programs like be a first time college student, then be 60+ years of age , plus a first time car owner! There you go! Shake on that! :mad:
Small wonder you had a screw up and got shopped around. Thankfully it worked out in your favor because no handshake on that deal. Scruples, integrity, honesty and ethical are not words normally used when discussing car dealerships. Want me to list dealerships by name? Oh wait i'm not in the lawsuit driven US right now but it still might constitute as something a lawyer who deals in written things would probably haul me over the coals in for libel or something. People don't trust dealers and the way things are likely never will, that's why there is Edmunds. I start at Edmunds TMV and try and get them to beat it.
"...the value of a handshake or a verbal commitment..."
Boy, why can't all car salesmen be like you. We might not be able to agree on a deal, but I think I'd leave your store not feeling like I needed a bath.
Some people have been burned by slippery salesmen to the point that they feel they have to play the same slimy game.
I try to play it straight with anyone I do business with. If I make an offer and it is accepted right away, I don't shop it. That's what I was willing to pay, you accepted, I'll buy.
Unfortunalty, when I have done just that, games have been played by the other side. It makes it hard to trust.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
If you ask for a price and get it what's the problem? Is it because the salesperson didn't make you earn it? That's negotiation 101. Obviously that salesperson won't make that mistake again....
All I saw was a person wasting both his and the salespersons time by asking for a price, getting what he asked for, then saying I've got to shop the price.
Scruples, integrity, honesty and ethical are not words normally used when discussing car dealerships.
No one said there aren't bad salespeople. It is fascinating to me that just because someone gets burned somewhere by a lousy salesperson it seems to be okay for a customer to burn a different salesperson in return.
I'd get on any sales rep who lied to a customer so it shouldn't be surprising that people here are getting on a customer who reneged on a deal. If this story had been reversed, we'd see all kinds of people posting about the sleazy dealer who backed out of an agreement.
Remember, this wasn't about a dealer making an offer and trying to trick the customer into accepting it. The customer made the offer and it was accepted. I find it hard to believe that anyone who spends time here would make a high initial offer.
The way I see things is anytime someone makes an offer, that means they are offering to buy at that price. If the poster made an offer that was accepted then he should have went ahead and purchased the vehicle instead of shopping around.
It would be different if he'd ask or tell the salesman: "If you're willing to sell it for $XXXXX then I'd consider it and get back to you, is that number doable?"
As opposed to:
"My offer to buy this car from you is $XXXXX, do you accept?"
The word "offer" means offering or willing to do something in exchange for something else. I "offer" to buy, do you accept? Yes, then let's conitnue the process.
I also never understand people who think that because the deal was too easy then there must be money left on the table.
If I need one more unit to make target or bonus, or because I have to be out somewhere in a short time and don't want the transaction to drag on, I'll take a lowball offer and get it done.
The way I see things is anytime someone makes an offer, that means they are offering to buy at that price. If the poster made an offer that was accepted then he should have went ahead and purchased the vehicle instead of shopping around.
Agreed. To those that are generalizing about dealers ethics and justifying your actions then you are really no better.
Set your own ethical standards and live by them... don't adjust them based on what others do.
I've been burned before as well, but it won't change how I do business. Just a few weeks ago a sales guy offered me a price on a Lexus LS460 only to go up by $5K when I called to make an appointment to see it. Frustrated yes; will I play games with a salesperson, No
Gimmee a Brake!!! Save your self serving moralizing for the showroom. The law in most states is there is no sale till the buyer takes delivery and drives the car off the lot. Everything else is just conversation.......Literally.
I have a question for any Honda salesmen out there. I have seen a lot of Odysseys going for around $1500 below invoice on this forum. I have emailed every dealer in a 250 mile radius of Omaha and the best offer I have gotten is invoice.
Can you tell me, is there some reason for a geographical difference in price or is it all in my negotiation?
You think the average car dealership is out to pull every treick in the book to make a sale...right?
So, with that in mind, it's perfectly OK for someone to make an offer to buy the car at a certain price, and then when the price is accepted, reneg on the offer.
Fair enough. I guess since it was a car dealership it's allright to reneg on a commitment. At least in your book.
Everyone gets the "point of law". After all, the dealer didn't try to have the guy arrested for reneging.
The "point" some are trying to make is that it was a lousy thing for the buyer to do. Just as it would be a lousy thing for a salesperson to renege. No one said it was not legal.
Comments
G'morning!
-Moo
He wanted a LR3 for 40,000 or something like that and we throw in the tent that bolts to the back for free.
We couldn't get him off that number and he was getting a bit perturbed with us.
I told the guy to say ok you can have the car for free but the tent is 40,xxx. It made him laugh broke the tension and he said ok.
Nice move, it's all in the presentation.
-Moo
Answer (net number) verified several ways without going through the proverbial DMV (Department of Morons in Volumes) :shades:
After September 1st, I plane to buy a new GMC 2500 HD diesel 4WD SLT crew cab, long box. I live in S/W Arizona and our one GMC dealer has the attitude all the other dealers in town have. "Take it or leave it." Since I don't care how far I have to travel to make my best deal, does anyone have a suggestion how to go about checking the price nation wide? I know the Kelly BB price, the Consumer Reports price and I know within about $1500 what I'm willing to pay. I've never bought through the internet and it's crap shoot trying to check dealer inventories state by state. There HAS to be a better way to achieve what I'm trying to do. Any advice or suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
What was the highest real money offer you made in writing, signed by you, in a sales office, while trying to buy the truck you want near your home?
I am going to be buying a car in the Colorado Springs area in a couple of weeks. either a Ford Fusion or Mazda3. My wife just started working at Ford Credit, so we will get some type of "employee" pricing. After offering "employee" plans a couple of years ago, is "employee" pricing a good deal or not? Also, can anyone advise what is "A plan, X plan, etc.."
Thanks for any advice. I have just joined Edmunds and find it is all a good read. Again, thanks...
A-plan is a great deal, you can buy a fully loaded SEL fusion that list for $25600 for $22517, or if you don't use the 2.9% it would be $21517.
So is it that employees of Ford are eligible to participate in the 'A' plan, and other company vendors are eligible to participate in 'X' plan (if on the approved supplier list)?
I know my company has a deal with Ford (I don't remember which plan letter it was), where I walked in couple years ago, showed them my badge from my company, they gave me the special invoice with the plan info on it, and we closed the deal in minutes on the vehicle I selected. It was the easiest deal that I have ever done in 35 years of buying vehicles! Between that and some end of year and finance rebates that were availabile, I got one heck of a deal.
What's the % difference between A and X plans?
The other day, one of my people made a mistake. It was her fault. She's new and doing a great job but she made a pricing error on a new Odyssey.
Still, for this customer, it wasn't enough. She wanted even more.
I agreed to honor the price that she was quoted even though it would have been a 1200.00 loser for our store. We have a great reputation and we do what we say we are going to do.
Despite her reams of research material, she didn't believe me. She thought something was wrong. She demanded another 500.00 off the already 1200.00 loser.
Finally, I was out of patience. I am very busy and my patience only go's so far.
I told her that we had made a mistake but we would honor the price we quoted her. I also told her that if she left, we would no longer honor that price.
She didn't believe me and she left. She spent the rest of the day driving from Honda dealer to Honda dealer trying to beat my number.
The next day, she called me wanting to know if we would sell that Odyssey to her for the wrong price we had quoted her.
Just amazing...
Regarding the guy who made an offer and had it accepted, only to "re-think" the deal, once you walk out of the showroom with no new car, the negotiations start all over again. Sometimes you can overthink a deal, and you'll miss a good one by doing so.
If they've met your price, what's holding you back from making the deal? What difference does it make? You can shop the offer all over town, but at some point it becomes counter productive by doing so. You may save $50 by doing so, but you'll spend time and $75 worth of gas to find out.
I knew she wouldn't give us the satisfaction of coming back and paying more for that Odyssey but I'm sure she paid an extra 1500.00 over what we would have sold it to her for because of our mistake.
I love it when someone outsmarts themselves.
I commend you for honoring the original price even though it was a loser. I've been involved in a situation where the dealer refused to honor his original price when they realized an error that was against them.
I have learned in life that people who are distrustful are the ones that can't be trusted themselves.
Pure and simple, she outsmarted herself.
We did, in fact, make a mistake. A big mistake and we were willing to suck it up. we got lucky when she left and my salesperson learned a lesson.
After going back and forth, agreeing to a price. Giving your commitment that you will buy at that price. The deal is accepted.
Are you saying you believe it is OK to back out at that point and take that number and go shop it?
Maybe I misunderstood you?
Did you think that just maybe that salesperson was trying to streamline the process and do a quick, no BS deal with you?
If I were to give you the response that I think you deserve, my post would probably be deleted.
I wouldn't want a "customer" like you.
I have probably had people do this maybe twice to me in the 12 years I've been in the business.
I guess I didn't misunderstand your question after all.
You made an offer, right?
The offer was accepted, right?
Then you backed out, right?
I wonder what you would have done if the dealer had accepted your offer, shook hands on the deal and then backed out thinking that just maybe the next customer would just maybe pay a bit more?
We all live by our own value system I suppose.
I'll let the others respond to you...maybe it's me?
But maybe the world has changed?
Yeah, it's all about the almighty dollar...scruples? who cares?
I think the point is that you aren't talking about negotiating... at least not using the definition most of us would use. You offered a price and it was accepted. Negotiating would be you (or the salesperson) NOT agreeing and then there would be the usual offer/counter offer.
BTW, I'm not in sales of any kind. You reneged on the deal. If the salesperson made you a screaming offer that you accepted and then turned around and said "nevermind", I have a feeling you'd be pretty upset.
But maybe the world has changed?
Yeah, it's all about the almighty dollar...scruples? who cares?
Wow you must work for a dealer unlike I have ever been to before. I have more dealers pull more scams and stunts on me for simple cash sales than I can think of. Honda dealers, heck I had one dealership tell me I couldn't AFFORD a new honda and I should go any buy a used one somewhere as all they had was expensive used cars on the lot and the attitude was the worst I'd ever seen high snob factor because I was working in Tool & Die and was on a big job and took my entire lunch hour and we rarely got more than 15 minute lunches as we had so much work at that time and I was in jeans and a T-shirt and I neverforgot that and yes I could name teh dealership but won't. I walked out and bought a Chevy Monte Carlo SS for less money I made a helluva lot more than taht salesman ever did. Back then I was probably at about $800 per week. Complaining to his sales manager was even worse!
They have lost all sales from me for life!
I've had dealerships wait until the check is being handed to them by me and they claim "Oh we made a $1,200 mistake!!!" Yeah a signed agreement, trade in title already signed over to them. Yeah amazing how many cars I've bought and how many dealers take advantage of their customers which is why i don't blame people for trying to get the price down to the last penny!
Signed contracts and handshakes? How 1800's of you because you and I both know that to a car dealer the handshake works only in HIS favor not in the customers favor and that when push comes to shove you dealers are going to want to see everything in writing. I've played this game many many times and I've owned a lot of cars maybe 32 new cars and more beaters than I care to think about.
Small wonder people don't trust dealers and why don't you guys actually write the quote down on your own company paperwork?! Because you know the customer will shop it around and if you were so low in price or your price was so great then why worry?
Because selling cars is a cut throat business and consumers are tired of it so they automatically start off not trusting the dealership and for good reason. I could write a book like the guy who traded his ford LTD in every 2 years with about 24 k on the clock and they'd give him 35% of that vehicle towards the price of a new one and the car was immaculate! The guy was retired and drove only locally and had that dealer maintain it.
Yeah they ripped him off and he's still buying from them. If he sold those cars privately he's get 70% of the purchase price easily!
The world has changed. I love it when car dealers advertise low prices in the newspapers in huge font numbers and you go in to buy the car for that and then find out to get the advertised price you have to have 3 conflicting incentive programs like be a first time college student, then be 60+ years of age , plus a first time car owner!
There you go! Shake on that! :mad:
Small wonder you had a screw up and got shopped around. Thankfully it worked out in your favor because no handshake on that deal.
Scruples, integrity, honesty and ethical are not words normally used when discussing car dealerships.
Want me to list dealerships by name? Oh wait i'm not in the lawsuit driven US right now but it still might constitute as something a lawyer who deals in written things would probably haul me over the coals in for libel or something.
People don't trust dealers and the way things are likely never will, that's why there is Edmunds. I start at Edmunds TMV and try and get them to beat it.
Boy, why can't all car salesmen be like you. We might not be able to agree on a deal, but I think I'd leave your store not feeling like I needed a bath.
Some people have been burned by slippery salesmen to the point that they feel they have to play the same slimy game.
I try to play it straight with anyone I do business with. If I make an offer and it is accepted right away, I don't shop it. That's what I was willing to pay, you accepted, I'll buy.
Unfortunalty, when I have done just that, games have been played by the other side. It makes it hard to trust.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
All I saw was a person wasting both his and the salespersons time by asking for a price, getting what he asked for, then saying I've got to shop the price.
What's missing here?
No one said there aren't bad salespeople. It is fascinating to me that just because someone gets burned somewhere by a lousy salesperson it seems to be okay for a customer to burn a different salesperson in return.
I'd get on any sales rep who lied to a customer so it shouldn't be surprising that people here are getting on a customer who reneged on a deal. If this story had been reversed, we'd see all kinds of people posting about the sleazy dealer who backed out of an agreement.
Remember, this wasn't about a dealer making an offer and trying to trick the customer into accepting it. The customer made the offer and it was accepted. I find it hard to believe that anyone who spends time here would make a high initial offer.
It would be different if he'd ask or tell the salesman:
"If you're willing to sell it for $XXXXX then I'd consider it and get back to you, is that number doable?"
As opposed to:
"My offer to buy this car from you is $XXXXX, do you accept?"
The word "offer" means offering or willing to do something in exchange for something else. I "offer" to buy, do you accept? Yes, then let's conitnue the process.
I also never understand people who think that because the deal was too easy then there must be money left on the table.
If I need one more unit to make target or bonus, or because I have to be out somewhere in a short time and don't want the transaction to drag on, I'll take a lowball offer and get it done.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Agreed. To those that are generalizing about dealers ethics and justifying your actions then you are really no better.
Set your own ethical standards and live by them... don't adjust them based on what others do.
I've been burned before as well, but it won't change how I do business. Just a few weeks ago a sales guy offered me a price on a Lexus LS460 only to go up by $5K when I called to make an appointment to see it. Frustrated yes; will I play games with a salesperson, No
I have a question for any Honda salesmen out there. I have seen a lot of Odysseys going for around $1500 below invoice on this forum. I have emailed every dealer in a 250 mile radius of Omaha and the best offer I have gotten is invoice.
Can you tell me, is there some reason for a geographical difference in price or is it all in my negotiation?
Thanks so much for any input.
You think the average car dealership is out to pull every treick in the book to make a sale...right?
So, with that in mind, it's perfectly OK for someone to make an offer to buy the car at a certain price, and then when the price is accepted, reneg on the offer.
Fair enough. I guess since it was a car dealership it's allright to reneg on a commitment. At least in your book.
I don't think I'm anything special. I was taught by my parents that a man's word meant something.
I understand now that some people feel this isn't important especially if a car dealership is involved.
I've been burned too. Heck, I'm from So. Calif which is a horrible marketplace. That doesn't mean I should stoop to their level!
I guess it's OK for a customer to reneg on a "committed" offer in your book than?
Self serving? I guess I'm a dinosaur then.
Highly doubtful this ever happened. I mean why? Why would we lose money on a hot selling car?
Don't believe everything you read.
Do you still think what that poster did was right?
What if that dealer had done the same thing to him?
Right is right, and wrong is wrong!
The "point" some are trying to make is that it was a lousy thing for the buyer to do. Just as it would be a lousy thing for a salesperson to renege. No one said it was not legal.