I agree with you there, i've went to a few dealerships months ago and made my offer however I was basically shot down and they stuck to the selling price of their car and I was never contacted back by them,
Months in the car biz is an eternity. The reason you were never contacted is probably because, at that time, you found the market condition for that car.
Now that you're looking again, months later, with new models closer to being introduced, you're now in a different market.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
"...the dealership i'm working with now are at the numbers where I want to be." "...I am getting the best deal since the dealer took my first offer..." "...checking in with other dealerships...isn't this the whole process of negotiating the best deal?"
Your posts are confusing. Did you and a dealer agree on a price or not? Did you tell the dealer you'd buy at a price he agreed to? Your posts seem to indicate you made a deal to buy, but then you say you think you are still negotiating. If you made a deal to buy, then the negotiating is over, right?
What am I missing here? Can you or anyone else explain?
I wonder if that same person who gives his word he'll buy and then backs out of the deal would get upset if he went back to a dealer who had agreed to sell at a certain price and is told by that dealer that it had changed its mind and no longer wanted to sell it for that.
Good point joe131. If he has done his homework...made an offer...and the dealer said o.k..then there is no doubt that he should go there and get the da-n car. How much advice do you want obyone???Everyone has told you what to do and you still are beating around the bush!!! Go get the CAR!!!
I wonder if that same person...would get upset....
Sure, it happens all the time... on both sides. A lady on the Toyota Sienna board posted of making a confirmed deal via e-mail, then showing up to take possession. But, when she got there the van was gone, dealership gave excuse it couldn't find the keys, then told her they had sold it for more money.
The only difference is dealerships/businesses are "expected" to act in a professional and truthful manner. No one expects such behavior from individual human beings.
The negotiating isn't over, just because the first dealer took my offer, I did not sign anything to purchase the car, nor did I leave a deposit for the car to be held for me, I realize theres a chance it may be sold as I stated before theres other dealers that I can purchase the same car from, there isn't anyone being lied to, why is there such an uproar about negotiating from dealer to dealer?
"...would get upset if he went back to a dealer...and is told by that dealer that it had changed its mind..."
That exact thing happened to me once. I asked what the price they would be willing to sell for, was given a price, thought about it for 24 hours and then accepted. It was then I was told "That was yesterday's price" and was quoted a price $500 higher. I guess when buying a car, thinking is expensive.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Sorry but if you offer and they accept then the negotiations are over.
If you don't want to buy the car for that amount don't make the offer.
In my book once an offer is made and accepted then both parties have a moral obligation to go through with the deal. That is unless some unforeseen event happens.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I would have countered with $500 less than yesterdays price. I can play those games too and if they want my business they will take it or I can go elsewhere.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I think some people are putting too much faith in this "deal". Just because he asked if they would sell a unit for $x.xx, and they said yes, he is not obligated to buy it.
Not having a tape of the negotiations, I am assuming he said something like "would you sell it to me for X?, not "if you will sell it for X, I give my boy scout oath that I will buy it right now"
Prices are also only good as long as you are negotiating. Unless stated otherwise, any offer made is null and void once the shopper walks out the door. So yes, it is reasonable for the salesguy to say that was yesterdays offer, although there are more tactful ways to say it!
Finally, businesses are regulated and work under a different set of standards. So there are cases where they could be held to honor a deal where a buyer couldn't be forced to purchase a car.
I think some people are putting too much faith in this "deal". Just because he asked if they would sell a unit for $x.xx, and they said yes, he is not obligated to buy it.
Technically making an offer and having it accepted creates a contract. However in most state (I think all) such verbal contracts are only valid on deals under a certain dollar amount.
So basically if he made an offer to buy the car for a set amount and it was accepted he has somewhat of a moral obligation to follow through.
Prices are also only good as long as you are negotiating.
So once you agree on a price its no longer good?
any offer made is null and void once the shopper walks out the door.
I will strongly disagree with you on this one. Unless stated an offer should be valid for a reasonable amount of time. 24 hours is more than reasonable. Technically an offer is good until rescinded or in cases where a time limit was included in the offer.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
If I get a customer that makes an offer with intent to buy, and once his/her offer is accepted they still choose not to go ahead, then chances are I won't be following up with them either.
I may do it just to see if they bought anything, but if they try to renegotiate I won't take them seriously.
In simpler terms: you make an offer to buy, the price is agreed but you don't buy. Then you call me a few days later and ask me if I can drop the price more. At that point I won't want to waste anymore time unless you come in and sit down with me and give me acredit card for a deposit BEFORE I present another offer ot the manager.
As for the first offer being accepted, it doesn't mean you offered too much. Maybe a dealer or saleman has met his quota, or target, or it's late in the day or whatever, the car's in stock, ready to go, and that's when they might accept a first offer. We're humans too and don't enjoy grinding as much as people think we do.
Wow. What a bunch of hacks those shoppers are. Seriously - I can think of a dozen ways to walk out without making the salesperson any wiser about wanting to shop around further.
The classic is that you need to bring your wife/husband/etc in to see the car. Another is that you need to talk to your credit union to see about financing(this works well if it's after 5pm/they are closed). There are many other ways to do so without being a jerk about it.
That's different. You never had a deal. A deal is an agreement, an offer and an acceptance. The first day you did not accept. The second day the dealer did not. So, no deal either day. Neither person reneged on the deal because there never was one.
You make and offer that is accepted then turn around and say wait...you accepted my offer but I need to check around if that is the best deal I can do.
What's missing? I wish Bobst was here to explain the logic on this one.
I have a few months to spare before I buy my new car- until dec/jan. Any experiences on whether the deals are better before christmas or just after new years?
"...I would think that any salesman worth their weight in sales slips would see that for what it really is..."
Which makes it tough if you are telling the truth. The business is so jaded that even if you don't play games, the salesman still thinks you are.
I guess I'll follow the advice of a poster from some time ago who suggested that you barge into the dealership, fling your arms wide and yell "Who wants to sell a car TODAY!?"
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
It is all a catch 22. Is someone makes a fair offer and we accept it then the customer thinks they left money on the table. If we don't accept then they complain about all the time it takes and the back and forth stuff with the negotiations.
I am not a car salesman, however; you must realize that when you purchase a car in Nov or Dec. (depending on the make and model) a lot of the 2008's will already be on the market (a lot of 2008's are already being made and some are already on sale). A 2007 might go for a lot less than right now, just to get old inventory off the dealer's lot...so it depends on what you are looking for and WHEN you look and decide to buy. Perhaps, if you gave the salesmen in this forum more info as to what you are interested in purchasing, they might or will give you a better answer.
I am planning to buy a new Honda Odyssey EXL-RES in the next few weeks. I would like to do most of the dealing over the internet because I don’t have the time to go around to several dealerships and spend hours hashing out the deal.
My deal is a bit complicated because I have a high value trade (I realize I will have to take it to the dealership at some point so they can determine a value for it). Any opinions about the effectiveness of the following email approach, in getting the best deal, would be greatly appreciated!:
Dear Mr. (Salesman’s name),
I would like to purchase a new 2007 Honda Odyssey EXL-RES in white or metallic grey in the next few weeks. I am willing to pay $28250 including destination, all fees, add-ons, costs, etc. but excluding TTL.
I have a 2007 Ford 150 XL 4x4 I would like to trade (I won in a raffle and have the title). I would like to get the Edmunds trade-in value for it and realize you would have to inspect it before setting a firm value.
I would like to finance the balance with Honda’s current financing promotion of 2.9% for 36 months. Would you be interested? Thanks so much.
Best regards, Jim (my husband’s name)
I arrived at the $28250 because it seems Odysseys have been going for about $1500 below invoice. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated!
I'm not an expert, but the part about you winning it in a raffle is irrelevant, and may result in getting a lower trade-in offer - they know you've put nothing into it, so anything you get out of it is "free money." You might just mention that you have the title & there is no payoff.
Instead, you might just offer more information about your trade - like the current mileage and options on the vehicle. No need to mention what you'd like to get for it - what if a particular store is willing to offer more??
In any case, you're not going to arrive at a value for that over the internet, but you can probably arrive at a price for the van at least.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Everything seems reasonable to me. Your offer on the Odyssey is doable and I'm assuming that Edmunds would be pretty close to what you should be getting on the Ford.
If I were you, I would see if it would be worth my while to sell that vehicle on my own. You maybe able to make up quite a bit of money between trade-in and private sale on an '07. I assume there is no mileage on the vehicle?
is that Honda dealers have a reputation for putting kind of weak money on Domestic vehicles. I wouldn't mention that you won the truck in a raffle but would give more info about it.
The value of your trade doesn't "complicate" this deal at all. You are buying their vehicle and they are buying yours.
The only complicating factor with your trade is that truck values vary considerably depending on optional equipment.
Get some hard quotes on the Odyssey and then take your truck to several stores to get trade numbers. Do the deal where the numbers are the best overall.
I've found it best when buying over the internet to indicate that I'm ready to buy NOW, not several weeks in the future.
I have a 2007 Ford 150 XL 4x4 I would like to trade (I won in a raffle and have the title).
How you got it is nobody's business at all. Like 'kirstie' said if they know you got if free they will surely try to steal it from you for a price much less than they would otherwise have given you, which would be bad enough.
I would try my darndest to sell the truck myself.
It's worth a shot. Good luck.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Jetzzs, do you get a tax credit on trade ins where you live?
If you do, multiply what the dealers offers you for it times your state tax rate. That will tell you your break even on selling it your self.
For example in TN the tax rate on an auto is around 7% and you are taxed on difference. So if I have a $20K trade that is a $1400 tax savings, so I would have to sell my trade for $21,400 to break even.
That is a good point about the sales tax. If I sell it myself I would need to get at least $1000 more to make up for the extra taxes I would save trading it in. I think that it would be worth it to just trade it in and not have to worry about selling it myself.
But I think the point that the others have been making is that if you researched the price, came up with a good number in your mind, and it was accepted, you should just go ahead and complete the deal. The key is, did you thoroughly research the price? For example, how does it compare with Edmunds' True Market Value? Also, are there any as-yet undisclosed add-ons to the price (excluding state-mandated taxes and fees)?
Basically, you've used the Bobst method: stated your price and they agreed. Now all you have to do is sign the papers. It isn't worth fretting over $50 or $100 you might have saved from the dealer on the other side of town.
I bought my '05 Accord on the very last day of the year in 2004. They were chompin and the bit to sell and the dealership was packed. I waited until November that fall to contact them through their internet department and corresponded with them back and forth over e-mail until I was ready to bite. I made an appt and slipped in amongst the throngs. I purchased well under invoice with some add ons. That seemed to be a great strategy that worked well for me. Good luck
Does anyone know when the '08 Honda Odysseys come out? I am debating as to whether I should buy this weekend (it is the end of the month as well as the end of the quarter) or wait until the end of July.
Also, does anyone have an idea if the incentives and financing deals will be better for July?
The age old question this time of year... selection Vs. increased incentives. Generally speaking, I believe incentives will be better in July than June.They (incentives) are not posted in advance, so hard to say for sure on Ody.
If you are fairly flexible on color and options, shouldn't hurt to wait.
Thanks so much for your advice on the email offer. You all had some good suggestions and I integrated them into the letter and sent it to two dealerships in my area.
I have received a reply from one in Des Moines, IA. Their initial offer on June 20th was $30,177 + fees. In response to my offer they say they are perplexed but will sell me a 2007 EXL-RES for $29,900 + fees.
Are they bluffing? Or could the deals in the posts here, be that much different than what is available here?
Any advice is greatly appreciated! Thanks so much.
Marsha, Honda Odysseys are going for under dealer invoice price because the factory is kicking back a $750 rebate to the dealer in addition to the 3% of MSRP holdback kickback. So the dealer is actually getting the van for $1600 to $1700 under invoice. Note that's under the Invoice price, not the higher MSRP. So bid accordingly. I'd begin $1000 under Invoice. The links below explain the rebates and give invoice prices.
Comments
Months in the car biz is an eternity. The reason you were never contacted is probably because, at that time, you found the market condition for that car.
Now that you're looking again, months later, with new models closer to being introduced, you're now in a different market.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
"...I am getting the best deal since the dealer took my first offer..."
"...checking in with other dealerships...isn't this the whole process of negotiating the best deal?"
Your posts are confusing.
Did you and a dealer agree on a price or not? Did you tell the dealer you'd buy at a price he agreed to?
Your posts seem to indicate you made a deal to buy, but then you say you think you are still negotiating. If you made a deal to buy, then the negotiating is over, right?
What am I missing here? Can you or anyone else explain?
He gave them a price that was acceptable to him. When it was met with no hesitation, he backed out....go figure.
And that was after his price was rejected by previous dealers.
Now if the salseman had given a hard time on the price then finally agreeing to it I'm sure he would be driving the car today.
Sure, it happens all the time... on both sides. A lady on the Toyota Sienna board posted of making a confirmed deal via e-mail, then showing up to take possession. But, when she got there the van was gone, dealership gave excuse it couldn't find the keys, then told her they had sold it for more money.
The only difference is dealerships/businesses are "expected" to act in a professional and truthful manner. No one expects such behavior from individual human beings.
And people wonder why dealers do that.
THAT is far different from solicting prices from various dealers prior to accepting one.
That exact thing happened to me once. I asked what the price they would be willing to sell for, was given a price, thought about it for 24 hours and then accepted. It was then I was told "That was yesterday's price" and was quoted a price $500 higher. I guess when buying a car, thinking is expensive.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Sorry but if you offer and they accept then the negotiations are over.
If you don't want to buy the car for that amount don't make the offer.
In my book once an offer is made and accepted then both parties have a moral obligation to go through with the deal. That is unless some unforeseen event happens.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Not having a tape of the negotiations, I am assuming he said something like "would you sell it to me for X?, not "if you will sell it for X, I give my boy scout oath that I will buy it right now"
Prices are also only good as long as you are negotiating. Unless stated otherwise, any offer made is null and void once the shopper walks out the door. So yes, it is reasonable for the salesguy to say that was yesterdays offer, although there are more tactful ways to say it!
Finally, businesses are regulated and work under a different set of standards. So there are cases where they could be held to honor a deal where a buyer couldn't be forced to purchase a car.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Technically making an offer and having it accepted creates a contract. However in most state (I think all) such verbal contracts are only valid on deals under a certain dollar amount.
So basically if he made an offer to buy the car for a set amount and it was accepted he has somewhat of a moral obligation to follow through.
Prices are also only good as long as you are negotiating.
So once you agree on a price its no longer good?
any offer made is null and void once the shopper walks out the door.
I will strongly disagree with you on this one. Unless stated an offer should be valid for a reasonable amount of time. 24 hours is more than reasonable. Technically an offer is good until rescinded or in cases where a time limit was included in the offer.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I may do it just to see if they bought anything, but if they try to renegotiate I won't take them seriously.
In simpler terms: you make an offer to buy, the price is agreed but you don't buy. Then you call me a few days later and ask me if I can drop the price more. At that point I won't want to waste anymore time unless you come in and sit down with me and give me acredit card for a deposit BEFORE I present another offer ot the manager.
As for the first offer being accepted, it doesn't mean you offered too much. Maybe a dealer or saleman has met his quota, or target, or it's late in the day or whatever, the car's in stock, ready to go, and that's when they might accept a first offer. We're humans too and don't enjoy grinding as much as people think we do.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
The classic is that you need to bring your wife/husband/etc in to see the car. Another is that you need to talk to your credit union to see about financing(this works well if it's after 5pm/they are closed). There are many other ways to do so without being a jerk about it.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
What's missing? I wish Bobst was here to explain the logic on this one.
Which makes it tough if you are telling the truth. The business is so jaded that even if you don't play games, the salesman still thinks you are.
I guess I'll follow the advice of a poster from some time ago who suggested that you barge into the dealership, fling your arms wide and yell "Who wants to sell a car TODAY!?"
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
But how many times is it the truth? I don't know about anyone else but if I start negotiating my wife is there and I have financing in place.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I HATE when people do that. They do usually buy a care eventually but it is such a painful process.
Perhaps, if you gave the salesmen in this forum more info as to what you are interested in purchasing, they might or will give you a better answer.
I am planning to buy a new Honda Odyssey EXL-RES in the next few weeks. I would like to do most of the dealing over the internet because I don’t have the time to go around to several dealerships and spend hours hashing out the deal.
My deal is a bit complicated because I have a high value trade (I realize I will have to take it to the dealership at some point so they can determine a value for it). Any opinions about the effectiveness of the following email approach, in getting the best deal, would be greatly appreciated!:
Dear Mr. (Salesman’s name),
I would like to purchase a new 2007 Honda Odyssey EXL-RES in white or metallic grey in the next few weeks. I am willing to pay $28250 including destination, all fees, add-ons, costs, etc. but excluding TTL.
I have a 2007 Ford 150 XL 4x4 I would like to trade (I won in a raffle and have the title). I would like to get the Edmunds trade-in value for it and realize you would have to inspect it before setting a firm value.
I would like to finance the balance with Honda’s current financing promotion of 2.9% for 36 months. Would you be interested? Thanks so much.
Best regards,
Jim (my husband’s name)
I arrived at the $28250 because it seems Odysseys have been going for about $1500 below invoice. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated!
Marsha in Omaha
Instead, you might just offer more information about your trade - like the current mileage and options on the vehicle. No need to mention what you'd like to get for it - what if a particular store is willing to offer more??
In any case, you're not going to arrive at a value for that over the internet, but you can probably arrive at a price for the van at least.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
If I were you, I would see if it would be worth my while to sell that vehicle on my own. You maybe able to make up quite a bit of money between trade-in and private sale on an '07. I assume there is no mileage on the vehicle?
Good luck!
-Moo
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
The only complicating factor with your trade is that truck values vary considerably depending on optional equipment.
Get some hard quotes on the Odyssey and then take your truck to several stores to get trade numbers. Do the deal where the numbers are the best overall.
I've found it best when buying over the internet to indicate that I'm ready to buy NOW, not several weeks in the future.
How you got it is nobody's business at all. Like 'kirstie' said if they know you got if free they will surely try to steal it from you for a price much less than they would otherwise have given you, which would be bad enough.
I would try my darndest to sell the truck myself.
It's worth a shot. Good luck.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
If you do, multiply what the dealers offers you for it times your state tax rate. That will tell you your break even on selling it your self.
For example in TN the tax rate on an auto is around 7% and you are taxed on difference. So if I have a $20K trade that is a $1400 tax savings, so I would have to sell my trade for $21,400 to break even.
That is a good point about the sales tax. If I sell it myself I would need to get at least $1000 more to make up for the extra taxes I would save trading it in. I think that it would be worth it to just trade it in and not have to worry about selling it myself.
Marsha in Omaha
Basically, you've used the Bobst method: stated your price and they agreed. Now all you have to do is sign the papers. It isn't worth fretting over $50 or $100 you might have saved from the dealer on the other side of town.
Does anyone know when the '08 Honda Odysseys come out? I am debating as to whether I should buy this weekend (it is the end of the month as well as the end of the quarter) or wait until the end of July.
Also, does anyone have an idea if the incentives and financing deals will be better for July?
Thanks so much! I appreciate any input.
Marsha in Omaha
If you are fairly flexible on color and options, shouldn't hurt to wait.
Thanks so much for your advice on the email offer. You all had some good suggestions and I integrated them into the letter and sent it to two dealerships in my area.
I have received a reply from one in Des Moines, IA. Their initial offer on June 20th was $30,177 + fees. In response to my offer they say they are perplexed but will sell me a 2007 EXL-RES for $29,900 + fees.
Are they bluffing? Or could the deals in the posts here, be that much different than what is available here?
Any advice is greatly appreciated! Thanks so much.
Marsha in Omaha
Honda Odysseys are going for under dealer invoice price because the factory is kicking back a $750 rebate to the dealer in addition to the 3% of MSRP holdback kickback. So the dealer is actually getting the van for $1600 to $1700 under invoice. Note that's under the Invoice price, not the higher MSRP. So bid accordingly. I'd begin $1000 under Invoice. The links below explain the rebates and give invoice prices.
http://www.edmunds.com/incentives/RebateController?styleid=100801026&popuppage=on
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/honda/odyssey/index.html
-Moo
Yeah, but those docs come in a tasteful, bound, hand-tooled with gold inlays, leather cover.
-Moo