Buying Tips - How Do I Get the Best Deal?

jlawrence01

MY Plan:
Never buy new. Let someone foolish or rich take the first hit.
Buy 1-3 years old off daily rental or off lease.

Personally, if you are a "buy and hold" person who is going to keep the car 150-200k miles, I do not see a great financial difference between buying a new car and buying a used car. If I buy a car with 50k miles and replace it every 7 years or a new one every 14 years or so, what difference does it really make?

And the 1st "big hit" (Meaning depreciation) is largely based on the model that you choose to purchase. And it is not solely a domestic vs. import matter. For example, in 2003, I purchased a Ford F150 for 18k and sold it for 12k after 4.5 years.

I have bought rental cars and run them forever. I think that the abuse issue is grossly exaggerated (yes, I have seen You Tube.) I prefer to buy off corporate leases as you have a motivated seller and much less emotion.

madmanmoo

Seriously, is buying or leasing a car a good financial decision? No. Why? Because it's a depreciating asset. So do whatever the flip you want to do. It's YOUR financial decision.

Is it the best decision to buy a candy bar and eat it? No, because it's a waste of money and it's bad for you. Good idea to spend money on having your lawn cared for and groomed? No, because you could do it yourself for much cheaper, but we do it.

C'mon guys, life is filled with these decisions. You're going to spend your money somewhere. Who gives a rat's [non-permissible content removed] how the other guy does it?

-Moo

55396

"Who gives a rat's [non-permissible content removed] how the other guy does it?"

Well, lots of people go to forums to learn things. If you don't have a bit of pro and con, we don't help anyone. If we only care about ourselves, then you are right. I think it's good to kick things around a bit. It's interesting. We may learn something. I usually do. And, hopefully others just starting out and looking for information can gain some insight from it. Forums are great places for this. I learned about suspension changes for my wifes 03 Avalon and the flow gave me enough insight to choose just the right components. It came out just right. My thanks to ABFisch, the resident expert, who did it first and was good enough to pass it on and help those who followed. Now I try to do the same.

madmanmoo

You're my hero.

Reference my statement about a depreciating asset. It's all a bad bet. You can spin the best way is either purchase OR lease. It really just comes down to personal choice. As always.

Leasing is cool becase you only pay the depreciation on a few years. Zero risk. GAP is included, you're under warranty, you're riding in a new whip. Financing? You can own it? You may have to shell out for repairs and the overall initial cost might be more, but hey, you own it. No worries on how many miles or about turning in the vehicle.

If someone looks at a vehicle as an expense, then who cares how they spend their money on it? It's an EXPENSE. They have budgeted a set amount for this expense. It's just opinions. You can make a case for either scenario.

-moo

lilengineerboy

Personally, if you are a "buy and hold" person who is going to keep the car 150-200k miles, I do not see a great financial difference between buying a new car and buying a used car. If I buy a car with 50k miles and replace it every 7 years or a new one every 14 years or so, what difference does it really make?

Paid 10k for a '96 Contour in '98 that was originally 18k. Put 150k and some track events on it; $2500 in '05 towards something else. Paid 6k for an '89 Galant (Car of the Year) in '91, drove it for 150k; $2000 in '98 towards the Contour. Liberated a '93 Accord that was bought new for 16k; $2200 in 2007 towards 2007 Accord.

The 2007 Accord was cheaper new than used. I couldn't get an '05 or '06 for the price I ended up with for the new one. I started off looking at used Civics and wound up with a new Accord (that ended cheaper than a new Civic).

Sometimes used is the way to go, sometimes new is the way to go. I had anticipated paying cash but the interest rates for the the 2 newer cars were so attractive I ended up financing. That helped me & the Mrs. max our 401k and Roth IRA contributions.

A job change might bring an early end to my Accord ownership, we will see about that resale value then, and maybe I can get into something cheaper as a commuter, and then have something I like for the weekends and in the spring.

snakeweasel

Seriously, is buying or leasing a car a good financial decision? No. Why?

That would depend of the circumstances but for most people it is a good financial decision. Why? Because for most people it costs more not to own a car. Personally owning a car makes it possible for me to make more money as I can drive to a higher paying position. Sure I could take public transportation but that would make my daily commute 3 hours one way as opposed to 25 minutes.

jmonroe

Then I always felf most consumers were pretty smart and educated about the buying process and realize most of you have no clue what you are doing.

Before I start firing bullets please clarify what you mean when you say “…most of ‘you’ have no clue what you are doing”. Does that ‘you’ mean us dopes here or ‘you’ as in the rest of the buying public?

BIG difference. I just want to know whether I should unload now or get a bigger shooter when I respond.

But, since I’m here now and I don’t want to waste this nickel altogether; you said in post 4263:

…but for those of us in our 20s-30s accept the fact that we will have a car payement for many years.

I take from that you are in that age group. Therefore, I doubt you have enough financial savvy to hang with most of us who have passed that “wish we were that age again” group.

By the time I was out of my 20’s, even I knew you shouldn’t have car payments for life (buying used really helped with this philosophy) and as a result I was able to teach my two adult sons that: “there is such a thing as life without car payments”. OK, you said “many years”, so by the time you are in your 30’s, you (as in people in general) should have figured out that’s ENOUGH ALREADY.

Fire away when ready.

jmonroe

madmanmoo

Thank you, Snakeweasel. Your grasp on the obvious is outstanding.

-moo

greanpea68

Precisely. That is roughly $200 less than someone would pay on a 5 year purchase. If you really love the car and can afford the 450 payment and not the 650 why not? You are getting a car you love, you can get out of it after 3 years and get into another one without rolling any negative equity over. Now remember: I DID say leasing isn't for everyone. But for younger people it's the best way to drive a new car every couple years and potentially pay hundreds less than a purchase payment.

I have to agree with jboxton here... i am not sure what the bafoon part was about but his numbers on leasing at $450 a month look pretty good to me...

GP

55396

"Thank you, Snakeweasel. Your grasp on the obvious is outstanding."

Sometimes the obvious needs to be spelled out as it seems that there are so many that just don't get it. Therefore, is it really that obvious? Everything is simple once we understand it. We go to grade school before high school. Must be a reason for that.

55396

"But for younger people it's the best way to drive a new car every couple years and potentially pay hundreds less than a purchase payment."

There is the instant gratification thing again. Why oh why, does someone just starting out need a new car? To impress your peers? To sacrifice your future for status for the present? Here is another example of the choices we make. Many times we just copy what our parents do. Others have no example to follow at all, and have never been exposed to thinking things through in a frugal logical manner. You can find pro and con in these postings that should help those just getting their feet wet make informed decisions. How many times have you seen the high school jock come back to a reunion with nothing and the little geeky guy is the owner of a company. I can cite examples from my own class. One of the latter now owns a company that reproduces parts for classic Fords. Another guy who was a promising boxer and did quite well is now a bouncer. He never knew anything but boxing, That's all his father knew, so he was taught nothing else. Same thing here. If your parents leased vehicles and still had house payments when they retired, you may do the same thing, and argue that it is the smart thing to do. So, go ahead and buy the best. Drive the latest. Live the good life. Just don't be surprised that someone you look down on for being frugal by driving a used car and not taking fancy vacations is way out ahead of you when you hit your 30's. He is probably investing what you are wasting on leasing or financing a new car for 5 or 6 years. Someone thinks you are doing the right thing though. That's the people that are letting use their money. They are probably investing the profit they make by letting you use their money. For a price, of course. Ever hear of compounding? In investing, time is of the essence. It is crucial that you start early. If you wait, you will need to invest many times more just to catch up. Another reason to consider the frugal route. As always, your choice.

obyone

"frugal logical manner"

Ever heard of the saying, "Live hard, die young, and leave a good looking corpse"?

55396

Nope. T'would be meaningless to me. I did go that route until I got smart though. So, what happens if you beat all odds and live till 90? You have memories of a few of those years, and of many where you watched the other guy do what you couldn't afford to. But you can always relive those few years in your mind, I guess. When I went to stay with my mother as she was bed ridden and waiting patiently to die, I asked her one day what she was doing. "Oh, just thinking of the things in my life. But then, she had many of those good years to think about, not just a few high flyers. Of course there are many with the income to be foolish and also survive financially. If you're one of those, go for it.

obyone

" I did go that route until I got smart though."

Exactly. So for you to try and convince others is rather futile. Though I do give you credit for trying.

55396

"So for you to try and convince others is rather futile. Though I do give you credit for trying. "

Some will get it. Some won't. Someone helped me, so I try to do the same. Ever heard 'What goes around, comes around'? Or, 'You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink'? ;-) All I can do is try and hope that it helps someone.

lilengineerboy

Eh, I'm in the same age group and I am pretty frugal and still broke. And I have a good job and 2 good degrees. I should have an '87 Yugo.

55396

"good job and 2 good degrees."?

You can't be doing too bad then. Or, there must be a leak in the can somewhere.
;-)

lilengineerboy

I think I am just really worried because the middle class is evaporating and I want to be on the high side not the low side. I also think my peers have a lot more debt then me (which is scary with a house and 2 car payments). I can't figure out how they have the latest and greatest this gismo or that. Either they make much more than me (which, like I said..I do have a good job and edujcamacaition), a lot of credit card debt and or no savings.

I don't think the feds are doing a lot to promote fiscal responsibility, but still I would be freaked with the way things are going now.

I also don't see myself buying a new car again. I've never had a new car for myself before, it just worked out that it was cheaper than the used ones. I also don't know if I would get something as expensive again. I am handy and mechanical and I enjoy wrenching, I think I would be more tempted to get a used European car (like that Audi after that other guy leases it and its resale value is compromised).
I have been successful in buying big brand name furniture for my house from Craigslist and eBay, for less than fake-wood products from Ikea. I enjoy good quality items, I just need to stay within my limits when shopping,

obyone

I've learned over the years that it's ok to spend. All you have to do is make sure you make more than you spend. See? Simple.

I always buy new. Well except for my last truck that was a purchase for the company a used 2003 Ford Ranger. Now hopefully the local Rover dealer will get some in stock. :surprise:

55396

"All you have to do is make sure you make more than you spend. See? Simple."

Yep, simple, but why then do so many people with a good education and a good paying job have so much trouble with it? Could loans, leasing, leasing, depreciation, buying more than you need, and fancy lifestyles have something to do with it? Not to mention divorces, alimony, child support etc? If so, then the question that comes to mind is, isn't most of this controlled by the individual? And if this is the case, isn't the individual the one with the power to change it? Where is the guy from a previous post that helps these people? He certainly could put this into perspective.

"my last truck that was a purchase for the company"

Your company? If so, and run properly, I can see why it may be simple for you. Not so for everyone. The one thing most have in common is that we have control. IF we choose to exercise it, eh?

madmanmoo

If someone can turn on a computer, find Edmunds, create an account and start typing out letters that form words that in turn form sentences which turn into ideas and opinions........ I'm fairly sure that they understand cars at times can be a "need" and don't need to have that pointed out.

That's not my point. My point is that they are DEPRECIATING items. Therefore, they are not an investment. Our resident CPA, Snakeweasel, should be able to corroborate that. The fact that they get you to some place to make money is beside the point.

/sigh

I think I'm about to abandon ship here. I'll leave it at this. Opinions rule. Just like leasing an apartment can be a good financial decision based on a particular individual's circumstances, so can leasing a vehicle. Vice versa on homes.

There ARE grey areas. I'm just surprised by the militant view on certain ways of acquiring a car.

-moo

snakeweasel

I have to ask what the good job is and what those two good degrees are?

snakeweasel

My point is that they are DEPRECIATING items. Therefore, they are not an investment.

A more wrong statement will be hard to find. An investment is an outlay of an asset to acquire in one way or another more of that asset or another asset. You have to get away from the notion that you have to have to sell it for more than you bought it for to be an investment.

Case in point a company may invest in a machine, they will sell that machine several years later for much less than they bought it for. But it is still an investment because that machine will allow them to process finished goods for sale, therefore making a profit.

The same goes for cars, most people will spend a lot more if they didn't have a car (either in car fares, lost time or loss in income). A car allows them to make more money, save time and move around using less money. In that aspect cars are an investment.

Our resident CPA, Snakeweasel, should be able to corroborate that.

I know very few CPA's that will corroborate your statement.

Cars are an investment, not an investment like a CD or a savings bond but an investment just the same.

55396

"I also think my peers have a lot more debt then me"

No doubt, especially if you live in an upscale neighborhood. Housing is quite expensive in some parts of the country too. They were quite cheap when I bought mine. We added on over the years, but stayed put, thereby avoiding all the 'parasite' fees involved in buying and selling. Smoking always bothered me. I knew what every drag was doing to my lungs and I was wasting money, so I quit early on. I feel the same about debt, so paid everything off as soon as possible - not easy when your wife is a stay at home mom . We don't have a fancy house in a high priced neighborhood where taxes and insurance are high. Taxes are evil, so I want to pay as little as I can. No one leaves here, and we are like an extended family. Great neighbors. We help each other. I I couldn't care less if my neighbor buys a new Mercedes unless he drives it across my grass. He's the one who has to pay for it. My house has been paid off for 20 years, and I had NO debt until I bought a place to winter in AZ, and an annuity is paying for that. We pay off credit card debt every month, although we have some from furnishing the AZ place as we did buy new, but we have a year interest free on that. I don't know how others do it, but that has worked for us. We got by on a single income yet had motorcycles, cars, motor home, high end audio systems and everything we wanted or needed. Not luxurious or top of the line, but served the purpose. We mostly bought used when the price was right. When a company buyout presented itself years ago, with a years pay, I jumped on it, and sold 66 days of vacation. I haven't worked since. I bought an 03 Toyota Avalon for my wife when it was less than a year old. Sticker was close to $30,000. I bought it from Enterprise for $19k. I just checked Trade In Book, not retail, and it has cost me $1500 per year to own a near new car. We paid cash, so no interest costs. It only has 60k on it and will last for as long as we choose to keep it. There are ways to do it without losing an arm and a leg if you think about it. We also invested regularly. It can be done, although it does require a bit of sacrifice, but that's mostly status I guess.

55396

"If someone can turn on a computer, find Edmunds, create an account and start typing out letters that form words that in turn form sentences which turn into ideas and opinions........ I'm fairly sure that they understand cars at times can be a "need" and don't need to have that pointed out."

It seems you see all exceptionally well. Therefore I assume that your perch is quite high in the tree. Not everyone is so blessed. Maybe you could even find something constructive to say up there somewhere.

lilengineerboy

Yeah I don't smoke (all the grandparents died of cancer, decided it wasn't a good way to go) and am not a big drinker (although if I do drink a beer, its not going to be Pabts or MGD or Bud, maybe Siera Nevada). I do have a lot of hobbies that require initial investment, but taking care of your equipment allows it to last pretty much indefinitely.
With cars though I am different, it has to be at least mildly entertaining to drive, as I define it. I would rather have something older/more fun than brand new and dull as a box of rocks.
I am worried about what happens to my neighborhood as everyone's ARM adjusts upward (we have an old school regular mortgage) and as the 0% interest deals on their credit cards dry up. We already seem to have a bit of a foreclosure rate around here.

55396

You mentioned buying a used European car - an Audi maybe. I have owned a Saab and an Audi. These are NOT cheap cars to own. They're OK if you want to buy new or lease, and bail out before warranty runs out. After them, I switched to Japanese. I only want to pay for them once, and not again in service costs. If you're concerned about costs, I would rethink that one. Jim Healy of USA Today really likes the new Infiniti M and the G series. Should be fun and reliable with reasonable to good resale value. I go to the Susan B Koman BMW cancer drive every year. You can drive any and all models while they donate $1 for every mile you drive. I drive em all from the Z4 sports car to the 7 series V12 at over $100k. My favorite? The 6 series V8 is my favorite, but they're $80k. The 335i is as much fun, and faster, with a 300 HP twin turbo 6 cylinder, but still $50k for the hard top convertible, which would be my choice. They are a drivers car. It is on my list, but as usual I will be patient and buy depreciated used. My other choice is a Porsche Boxster. I have been waiting for one around $16k - hard to find, but it's winter, so I'm looking now. My fun ride right now is a Honda VTX 1800 bike that I bought on ebay in the fall, and got a near new $13,000 bike for $5500. Here is the deal. The previous owner wanted to trade it in on a car. The car dealer didn't want it, so he called a bike dealer up the road, who didn't really want it either as it wasn't his brand. When I heard that, I knew I had found my deal, as I knew the bike dealer had low balled it so he was guaranteed to not get hurt on the deal. I got it for the low ball price that he paid. He just wanted it gone before winter. See, you have to understand how it works, and what the going price is. Only then do you know what to pay. The person who really took the hit was the dummy that traded it in in the first place. They probably rolled what he still owed over into a new loan for the car. Most people don't have a clue, and probably don't want to know. I bought it so right that I can ride it for a few years, detail it well, and get at least my money out of it in the spring. So, if I make money on it, is it an investment? I just sold a 79 Honda 750 that I bought near new for $900. I owned it for 26 years. I thoroughly detailed it and it looked like brand new with only 9000 miles. I put it out by the road on a trailer with $1800 on it and waited. My neighbor - another dealer said "you'll never get it". Lots of lookers, as they can be had for as low as $500, but well used. Then a guy and his wife stopped and said he had been looking for a nice one just like that for a couple of years. Didn't argue price, just wrote out a check. He loves it. Was that an investment? I had no intention of buying anything when I got it, as I had my Ducati, but when a neighbor asked if I knew anyone looking for a bike, and told me a guy he knew had recently bought it new, then had a few brews, ran in the ditch, dumped it and broke his hip, and wanted $900, well................. I called him, and in a half hour , owned a Honda. The forks were bent, instrument housing and speedometer crushed, the tip of the front fender scratched and the bracket twisted. I pulled the forks, disassembled them, and took them out to my friends Ducati dealership, put them in the press and straightened them. Good to go. I repaired the other items, drilled the rivets out of the front fender, straightened the bracket, reversed the fender so the scratched area was unseen to the rear and bottom. Good to go. The only part I had to buy was a brake lever. Lots of labor - mostly on the speedo and housing, which I didn't count. This is one way to do it if you are inclined and handy. Just an example, and surely only for a few. The point is, if you use your head and be a bit shrewd, you can do quite well owning nice vehicles. Maybe even turn a profit. But, you have to understand how it works. Or, be lucky. Or both.

mikefm58

Please hit enter every few sentences in a long post. Posts like the one above are impossible to read.

55396

"Please hit enter every few sentences in a long post. Posts like the one above are impossible to read."

Gotcha and right on. Garage stove was running, wife reminding me, going as fast as I could, forgot to hit the damn key. Will try to do better when the stove is off and the wife is in bed. ;-) I did try to do a spell check though. Be thankful for that.

tidester

An investment is an outlay of an asset to acquire in one way or another more of that asset or another asset.

I'm not sure which verb is appropriate but you can either stretch or dilute the meaning of investment to include just about everything you pay for.

Subway tokens? Sure, they are an investment since they get one to work and back - to make money! My iPod? Certainly! It recharges my batteries, figuratively speaking, so that I can work more efficiently - to make more money! $5 latte at Starbucks? Even better than my iPod - to make yet more money! And, oh, my 50" Philips HD TV is also an investment so I can get high resolution, up to the minute updates on my stock holdings - to make tons more money! :P

I could go on, but I have to get back to installing my new NAV system which I'll need to find my way to work and back - to make LOTSA money! :shades:

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

snakeweasel

I could go on, but I have to get back to installing my new NAV system which I'll need to find my way to work and back - to make LOTSA money!

But do you need those things to make more money (also money is not the only asset involved)?

55396

"An investment is an outlay of an asset to acquire in one way or another more of that asset or another asset.

I'm not sure which verb is appropriate but you can either stretch or dilute the meaning of investment to include just about everything you pay for.

Subway tokens? Sure, they are an investment since they get one to work and back - to make money! My iPod? Certainly! It recharges my batteries, figuratively speaking, so that I can work more efficiently - to make more money! $5 latte at Starbucks? Even better than my iPod - to make yet more money! And, oh, my 50" Philips HD TV is also an investment so I can get high resolution, up to the minute updates on my stock holdings - to make tons more money! :P

I could go on, but I have to get back to installing my new NAV system which I'll need to find my way to work and back - to make LOTSA money! :shades: "

Yep, and you have provided a perfect example why people can't afford to buy a car, too. :-)

tidester

But do you need those things to make more money (also money is not the only asset involved)?

I didn't see need in your definition of investment.

But if you are talking need then you don't need a car to make more money so a car isn't an investment either (taxi drivers excepted). You could "invest" in those subway tokens or other public transportation or live closer to work and ride a bike or walk and so on.

In any case, I think it's pretty much an all or nothing situation. If you admit buying cars into your definition of investment then just about anything else fits the category and must be included as well. On the other hand, calling it an investment is certainly a great rationalization for getting what you want particularly when attempting to convince a spouse that you're doing the right thing.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

tidester

Yep, and you have provided a perfect example why people can't afford to buy a car, too.

Actually, they were for illustrative purposes only. I wouldn't "invest" in any of them except for the occasional latte!

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

madmanmoo

You're right, Snakeweasel. But at this point you're just playing with semantics. It IS an investment, but not a wise one.

Can you find anything wrong in those 2 sentences?

-moo

imidazol97

"1. to put (money) to use, by purchase or expenditure, in something offering potential profitable returns, as interest, income, or appreciation in value. " from dictionary.com for the word "invest."

The primary meaning indicates there is hope of a profit in the form of interest, income, or appreciation in value. Buying a car for 99.9% of us is not a hope for a greater value for the car in the foreseeable future.

The other meanings are looser interpretations of the word invest.

infinia1

i'm looking to purchase a 2007 buick terraza soon. there are only 4 left, all out of state, equiped the way my wife requires. as most know, this vehicle is discontinued and 2007 is the last year.

i need advice on how to go about purchasing this van-it being located many states away. i have already requested a qoute through gmbuypower. but-how do i go about negotiating by email/phone and protect myself from traveling all the way to the dealer only to have the deal fall through upon arrival? their initial offer is about $500 above invoice-then i either get 1.9% financing or $2000 rebate. am i right in assuming i could do better, being this vehicle is discontinued and it's the end of the year? thanks in advance.

madmanmoo

Nice. Thanks for that.

-moo

madmanmoo

I would think you could get a better deal as well. I don't know that you'll save thousands more, but maybe another couple of hundred. As far as protecting yourself during the transaction, just have everything faxed and signed so that you have copies. Those are binding contracts.

I wouldn't think you have much to worry about. I think those dealers would like to roll those vehicles off the lot so badly that you'll get some royal treatment.

-moo

kiawah

Sounds like you definitely have your heart set on this vehicle, but as I understand it the crash ratings aren't that good, and it's going out of production after only being in production for what, two/three years? Personally, I'd be looking for an alternative.

Resale will probably be ???, parts availability will be ??, the AWD has had drivetrain problems and discontinued ......

Good luck, with whatever you decide.

55396

"I am worried about what happens to my neighborhood as everyone's ARM adjusts upward (we have an old school regular mortgage) and as the 0% interest deals on their credit cards dry up. We already seem to have a bit of a foreclosure rate around here."

We did a conventional mortgage on the AZ place too. I remember the early 80's when interest rates shot up to 21%. So what happens to those with an ARM when that happens? Seems like a balloon can bite you too, if the wind is in the wrong direction. I just don't like my behind sticking out in the wind. Could freeze.

In a similar vein, one night, in 1997, I was sitting here contemplating my navel, and came up with about six stocks I would like to own, as the price was down. So dummy goes to the phone (I don't use a broker) and places Limit orders - usually what I use - where you specify the price you will pay, for all six, and of course, I really low balled them. The thinking was that one may spike down and I could catch a deal.

Weeeeeeeeell, I was out and about the next day - and heard that the market had crashed. I had no way to cancel, which was my first instinct. So, when I got home, I asked my wife if Waterhouse had called (holding my breath). "Yes". (Oh crap) What did I buy? (Now really holding my breath) "Everything". (Ever had that sinking feeling?) What do I owe them? "$50,000." Now that was an 'Oh [non-permissible content removed]' moment. Good thing I learned early on not to buy something you can't pay for, but it was difficult to write that check, as the market was in full crash mode.

It wasn't that many months later, when the market bounced back, that that $50,000 investment was worth about $350,000, but I did sweat it for awhile. Sometimes the gut works. Other times it can bite you.

I started my kids investing when they were 16. The oldest daughter put $1000 of her baby and cat sitting money in a mutual fund the day before the 87 crash. Dropped into the $600 range, "DAD, you're going to pay me back". Well, that's not the way it works, but we will wait one year. Then I will make up the difference. Luckily, a year later, it was a break even. The last time I looked, some years later, it was about $5000. Had she panicked, she would have lost $400. And this was about the worst day she could have bought. I guess time heals at that.

She no longer has it. I think she sold it when her husbands business got in a bind on the downturn a few years ago. I'm sure they have not replaced it. She couldn't care less. Too laid back to worry about. Her husband is someone who thinks nothing about spending $400 on the latest toy for the kids. I guess that's the way he was brought up, as his parents don't have much left in their retirement. Their business though.

On the other hand, my youngest is into investing. They have a nice house on 3 acres - bought it right, and have nice vehicles. She is in her late 20's. Her investments are worth a quarter Mil last I heard. It's all in how we choose to operate. She is open about things and asks questions. The other ones attitude is "It's none of your business". I expect that she isn't to proud of where they are.

My parents always helped my sister, because, by her foolish choices and 3 husbands, "She needed it and you don't". So they kept enabling her, therefore, she saw no need to change. After our folks died - I was executor of the estate - I explained to her that this was her last chance. There isn't much there, but if you blow this, there ain't no more. Would you believe, she got an advisor, and got a job, and is doing quite well. It irritated me that my parents, like so many others, give it to the one that doesn't want to pull their own weight, but it's their choice. The few nice items they had went to my wife though, because they knew they would be safe here.

I had a 55 Chev with a 425 HP 396 CI engine, but it wasn't finished, and I had lost interest, so I gave it to my daughter with the condition that they keep it and restore it. If they should sell it, I get half, and it will be on paper. I hold the title until the work is well under way. Oh ya, and I get to use it when I want when it's done. That seems like a win-win to me. Which daughter did I give it to? Well, I did it differently. I gave it to the responsible one where I knew the deal would be honored, it would get done. Now I suppose I'll hear "But they don't need it and we do." Yes, but you did it to yourself, and I won't reward you for that. Or, maybe I'll just say 'It's none of your business'.

Bill bought a hoist for his big new garage that he and his buddies built and the body comes off the frame this winter. He expects to put about 10 grand into it, as I'm sure he will update the suspension too, but it will be done right. That one just may be an investment. I'm anxious to see it finished.

55396

I just got an email from our youngest daughter, and it's a good example of being frugal.

"Can you take the big 8x10 of Bill, Gavin and I (the most recent one) and scan it? I want to see if it's good enough to do Christmas cards with. I don't want to have to spend the $$ to order them through the company. Please send as the full file size."

Here again, the job can be done for almost nothing with the same end result. Small thing, but after a year of these, and the savings are totaled, it's almost real money. Add that to savings fron not smoking, cable TV vs movies and a night out, a drink on the deck as opposed to a night club or bar, well you get the idea. OK, I'm stating the obvious, but it wouldn't hurt to revisit it if your finances are tight.

lilengineerboy

I tend to put trolls on a strict diet so as to facilitate starving them off as much as possible.

210delray

That's a fine way to introduce yourself to the group here. I can see I won't be responding to your posts. :sick:

55396

"You sound like a load of fun. I'll bet your parties are a blast."

My, my, did we get out of bed on the wrong side today? Apparently your perch is way at the top of the tree too. Say hello to Moo. I would guess that you aren't that old yet, so there may be hope.

Well, I have a lot of close friends and meet new ones wherever we go who stay in touch for years, so you figure it out. How about yourself? Like parties? I don't. Usually a bunch of phonies trying to impress others and discover who they really are and where they may go if and when they ever figure it out. In the mean time, they cover it up by attacking others, pretending that are above it all. Am I close? Been there, done that. I would much rather be with close friends that have the same interests and can learn from each other. We will be there for each other when someone is down. Do you have that? From your input, maybe not. I wouldn't want to be at one of your parties.

Merry Christmas. Hope you feel better soon. Oh, and if these posts pain you so much, why are you still here? I'm sure that somewhere out there people on your level. Good hunting. We'll miss you, but have a good trip.

british_rover

tbaxxon = jboxton??? :confuse:

lilengineerboy

Was that the guy that bought the beater 3000GT or Stealth or something?

55396

"Was that the guy that bought the beater 3000GT or Stealth or something? "

Do a search on jboxton if you want to indulge in his superior intelligence. I chose not. I'm sure I don't have enough intelligence to understand anyway.

greanpea68

In the mean time, they cover it up by attacking others, pretending that are above it all. Am I close? Been there, done that.

Sounds like you are still doing it :surprise:

GP

greanpea68

tbaxxon = jboxton???

Yeah I thought the same thing at first too but I haven't seen the hostility that tbaxxon had.

GP