Buying Tips - How Do I Get the Best Deal?

venture

I can't seem to get a good deal on one of these no matter how hard I try.

http://www.doretti.co.uk/

Go figure.

tidester

Try Sotheby's! :shades:

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

55396

"I can't seem to get a good deal on one of these no matter how hard I try.

http://www.doretti.co.uk/ "

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------
How about one of these? Oughta grow hair on ya.

http://www.morgancars-usa.com/isis_corvette.html

venture

Weirdly, I like that. It ain't no Swallow though. :P

snakeweasel

Nope give me one of these

british_rover

Man I always forget about the carspace email thing. I should have just used that.

55396

I have always been partial to this one with a Cadillac V8. Even had a poster on my wall in Thule AFB, Greenland for something to dream about.

http://www.allardj2x.com/legend/collection.php

53 ALLARD J2X 50th Anniversary Edition

snapper2

Hi,
A coupe of things to consider. You will definitely get more if you sell it yourself but that is not always the best route. First of all, what is the tax rate where you live and do you get a tax credit on the trade. In most places you do. I sell cars in NJ where the tax rate is 7%. So lets say your trade is worth $25,000. By trading it in, you would receive a $1750 tax credit towards your new vehicle. So now the difference is less. You would have to advertise your trade and that is going to cost you money. I would suggest autotrader.com if you go that route. You are thinking about selling your vehicle because of the gas mileage, other people will consider that as well. However, you have picked the perfect time. There are people out there who need to spend money by the end of the year.
Next-consider leasing your next vehicle. If you are in real estate, you are probably driving a lot of miles and contrary to what most people think, leasing can be especially beneficial to high mileage drivers if you structure the lease for the miles you drive. (I have been in the car business for 20 years and I drive 25,000 miles per year-I would never buy!!!!) Check with your accountant and see what he says.
Also, if you do lease, check out doing a one payment lease, usually there is an interest reduction for that which reduces your overall cost.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do and if I can help you in any way, please let me know. We sell 20 different brands so if you want me to run some numbers for you to make sure you are getting a good deal-I would be happy to.

snapper2

Why pay cash for a depreciating asset? What type of car are you looking sat (I am coming late to the party) and what kind of incentives (both financing and paying cash do they offer?)

madmanmoo

I think this is a very nice response, however, I think you maybe a leeeeetle bit late. Bobst, who I haven't seen in awhile, posted that a little over 2 years ago.



-moo

snapper2

ok-better late than never-I know lots about buying cars-not an expert on the internet-want to help me out!!! Glad you liked the response though

snapper2

Faster than the laden swallow!

oldfarmer50

"...to make sure you are getting a good deal..."

Bobst is the author of "The Patented Bobst Method" of car buying. He knows everything about car buying and what he doesn't know, he makes up!

deskman

bring the salesmen donuts/pizza and give the gsm 2 $100.00s

joel0622

About 5 years ago I had a guy try to slip me $400 to lower the rate on a car one time. He just threw the money up on the table and asked for a 2 point reduction. I was clueless as to what he was trying to do. I told him that $400 down was not enough to effect the loan and he would probably need $4000 down to have any effect.

He looked at me, laughed and said that the $400 was for me to put in my pocket. Then I laughed and said I can't do that, but good try.

The the interesting part came after that He named 4 F&I guys in town (3 who I knew) who had done it for him in the past.

I didn't lose the deal but the guy wasn't happy about it either and lambasted us on a survey. His comment was that "The Finance office would not work with me on the rate."

snakeweasel

The the interesting part came after that He named 4 F&I guys in town (3 who I knew) who had done it for him in the past.

Now I have to ask, the three that you knew, would you expect that from them?

oldfarmer50

I've been looking at inventory data for several different cars trying to figure out which are the more popular models. Obviously, a car with a low "days supply" is the more popular but at what number would you say a car is in a glut situation?

I've seen cars I know are hot items have 30 days of inventory but where do you start seeing dealers get willing to make a low gross deal...60 days...90 days....120 days?

joel0622

Two yes, it was no suprise at all. Another guy who I knew from when he worked at a Ford store suprised me. But he may have become a product of his enviroment now. He works for a Kia store who does allot of the screamer ads and beg for people with bad credit.

cccompson

I think that you're needlessly beating your head against the wall because there's too many other variables involved. Decide what you want and canvass dealers for price. Unless a model is red hot, somebody will always do a skinny because some profit (from a sale) is better than none (no sale).

epiney

Go on, buy that Eclipse. You know you want to... If you keep waiting you may get the next gen

epiney

Hmm, I'll have to try that one. Does it only work at Chrysler? :P

Sometimes I find that being upfront and to the point after all the resaerch works. You want a quick incremental sale and a CSI you don't have to worry about? Few guys pass, but sometimes I get let's write it up.

oldfarmer50

"...Go on, buy that Eclipse..."

LOL! Yes I do. But I also like that Altima coupe and a few others. As I have said before, so little money, so many cars. :sick:

55396

I just got this in an email. The thought hit me that this could certainly pertain to car buying also. After all, a Focus will get you from point A to B just as well as a Lexus. Then invest the savings. Heads up if you have a tight budget.

A group of graduates, well established in their careers, were talking at a reunion and decided to go visit their old university professor, now retired. During their visit, the conversation turned to complaints about stress in their work and lives. Offering his guests hot chocolate, the professor went into the kitchen and returned with a large pot of hot chocolate and an assortment of cups - porcelain, glass, crystal, some plain looking, some expensive, some exquisite - telling them to help themselves to the hot chocolate.

When they all had a cup of hot chocolate in hand, the professor said: "Notice that all the nice looking, expensive cups were taken, leaving behind the plain and cheap ones. While it is normal for you to want only the best for yourselves, that is the source of your problems and stress. The cup that you're drinking from adds nothing to the quality of the hot chocolate. In most cases it is just more expensive and in some cases even hides what we drink. What all of you really wanted was hot chocolate, not the cup; but you consciously went for the best cups... And then you began eyeing each other's cups.

Now consider this: Life is the hot chocolate; your job, money and position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold and contain life. The cup you have does not define, nor change the quality of life you have. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the hot chocolate God has provided us. God makes the hot chocolate, man chooses the cups. The happiest people don't have the best of everything. They just make the best of everything that they have.

qbrozen

but what if, for you, cars = life? In other words, if driving a fine machine is, in your own opinion, one of the greatest pleasures?

My fridge is just an appliance. My car doesn't have to be.

i'm just playing devil's advocate here. Obviously, priorities are different for different people. Some folks will pay $10k for a stove and $500 for a toaster, while driving a $9k Chevy Aveo. OR, some folks might pay $100k for a violin to practice on, while some spend $200k on their daily driver.

oldfarmer50

"...notice all the nice looking, expensive cups were taken..."

What? Someone has a nicer hot chocolate cup than me? I'm going right down to the cup store and trade my cup in for the new model cup. I don't care if that store has an ADM on the fancy cups, I WILL have the best cup in my neighborhood! :mad:

jipster

Life is the hot chocolate; your job, money and position in society are the cups. They are just tools to hold and contain life. The cup you have does not define, nor change the quality of life you have. Sometimes, by concentrating only on the cup, we fail to enjoy the hot chocolate God has provided us. God makes the hot chocolate, man chooses the cups. The happiest people don't have the best of everything. They just make the best of everything that they have.

A big "Amen" on that one.

55396

"but what if, for you, cars = life? In other words, if driving a fine machine is, in your own opinion, one of the greatest pleasures?"

As always, you make the choice. Those in 'the business' would probably take issue with this, as it is their bread and butter, but I had in mind the person just starting out and envisions payments indefinately. There may be a message here for them. If you can afford the best, go for it. If you can't and still choose to go for it, well, that could possibly fall into the category of foolish or keeping up with the Joneses. I just try to expose the other side of the coin here, for those who care to consider it. For the others, there are payments.

fezo

Uh oh. Sounds like q is in his cups...

lilengineerboy

I would much rather have something used and cool than something new and lame. I think my most recent purchase and the associated buyer's remorse confirmed that. I think that people use vehicles for different things, some use them merely as transportation pods, some use them to convey status, and some use them for entertainment. I would place myself squarely in the 3rd category.

obyone

So you bought something new and lame that provides no entertainment?

lilengineerboy

Yes :sick:

fezo

That's gotta smart.

I agree with you on the car as entertainment even as the current cars aren't all that entertaining.

I also agree on the used vs. new.

55396

"i'm just playing devil's advocate here."

I thought that's what I was doing. ;-)

" Obviously, priorities are different for different people. Some folks will pay $10k for a stove and $500 for a toaster, while driving a $9k Chevy Aveo. OR, some folks might pay $100k for a violin to practice on, while some spend $200k on their daily driver."

Ya, and that truly baffles me. My dad felt that if he paid the highest price in town he would get the best. I came to understand that he did not. He didn't understand how things work. Some people spend $2500 on a refrigerator. I paid $700 for a nice new name brand Energy Star side by side. Now what will that $2500 unit do that mine won't? Then ask yourself if that small amount of features is worth $1800. Oh ya, don't forget the extra $126 sales tax.

And after all of that - as in a car, you just bought more things that can have problems. I spent $700. Mine cools things, freezes things, makes ice in various little forms, then pukes it out of a hole in the door into my glass. It also gives me a filtered cold drink of water. Ya know, I really hate to suffer like that. But you spend what you want. You're paying for and maintaining it.

Someone just gave me a water softener. They said it quit and company was coming, so they ran out and bought a new one. I have been using it for 3 years now. It threw a few errors at first, so I pulled the head apart, saw nothing wrong, relubed it, and it's still working just fine. That makes me feel good, not financing a $40,000 car. Or anything, for that matter.

Sears, Morton, one of the big name brands and who knows who else, use the same head, if not the total unit. I can buy the Morton for $350. OR, I can go to the name brand dealer and pay $1400 for the same thing. You figure that out by looking under the hood. Mine was free and I'm luvin it. So, my point is, always think smart. Learn. Understand what you are doing. Or screw yourself. Or understand what you are doing and choose to screw yourself anyway. Lots of people make their living when you do the latter. Again, this is for those struggling with making ends meet.

I have learned that those with lots of money really don't care. Money is just another tool to acquire what they think they want at any given moment. I had a stereo pre-amp that I had built from a kit. It was sitting on a shelf. I would have been happy to get $25 for it. One day, I was looking at a publication for used stereo equipment and saw an ad where a guy wanted the piece that I had and was offering $500 for one. Had to be a mistake, but what the heck, I called anyway. A woman answered Mr so and so's office. No, he is vacationing in the Bahamas. I'll have him call you Monday morning. And so he did. Is the price correct? Yes. Well, the controls are kind of scratchy. I don't care, I'm not going to play it. Why do you want it then? Oh, I have a rack of classic pieces in my den, and I'm missing this piece. I just look at it. OhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhK. That's when I understood how it worked. He had more money (or credit) than he could use. He wanted something and just threw a handful of money at the problem. I was very happy to help him out. People do dumb things because they can. Others do dumb things because their credit allows it.

55396

"I agree with you on the car as entertainment even as the current cars aren't all that entertaining.

I also agree on the used vs. new. "

LEB: "I would much rather have something used and cool than something new and lame. I think my most recent purchase and the associated buyer's remorse confirmed that."

Well, an old BMW 2002 would do the trick. Both used and fun. Probably pricey though, and them the parts and maintenance............................... Miata?

lilengineerboy

That's when I understood how it worked. He had more money (or credit) than he could use. He wanted something and just threw a handful of money at the problem. I was very happy to help him out. People do dumb things because they can. Others do dumb things because their credit allows it.

I don't think its dumb. I think different things are important to different people. I paid $75 for my Dura Ace 20th Anniversary headset on eBay because it was the only piece from that whole set I was missing on my Cannondale. Now, I think I am Mr. Cool because it all matches and its just right. Am I really mister cool? Who cares?

My brother collects baseball cards. Buying and trading various cards worth arbitrary amounts is fun for him, I don't understand it at all, but he likes it.

Because other people have different financial values and spend money differently doesn't make them wrong. What are you doing with all the money you save? Are you giving it to your religious home, or some other philanthropic organization? Just want to see how big a pile they can fit in your casket when you're buried?

I am not advocating spending beyond one's means in any way, but some things are more important to some people than others.

lilengineerboy

Well, an old BMW 2002 would do the trick. Both used and fun. Probably pricey though, and them the parts and maintenance............................... Miata?

A 2002 would be fine, parts aren't terribly expensive and are readily available. You can also drop in a 318ti motor or similar, and a 5spd out of a E30. The problem is everything in Michigan is a rust bucket.
The Miata is on the list except for its hard to justify a car that doesn't have 4 seatbelts. The sub-$3k pricetag helps a lot though.

55396

"What are you doing with all the money you save? Are you giving it to your religious home, or some other philanthropic organization? Just want to see how big a pile they can fit in your casket when you're buried?"

I always had what I wanted when it was important for me to do so, without a lenders noose around my neck. I learned to save first and pay cash. If I couldn't afford it that way, I didn't deserve it. Yup, that's old school 4 sure, but it made sense to me. Still does. I might ask how many thousands of dollars that you have paid in interest over the years are now in someone elses pocket? It gets scary fast if one looks at it.

There comes a time, at least to me, that all the games we play and the things that at one time were important, no longer are. I have done everything that was important for me to do. My main love is my motorcycle. Oh sure, I have my list, but I'm patient. My fun is in finding the deal. Almost hate to sign on the line as the fun will be over. Most people hate the car buying experience. I love it.

I suppose I could buy whatever I want - and I did just buy property in the southwest - because I didn't want to sit in cold winters. I found a great deal at a great price. That was fun. Now tweaking it up will be fun. But, that's an appreciating asset. A new car is not, so even though I can buy one, I won't. It just isn't that important. And that's what I have come to realize. None of the things I used to think were mandatory are really that important at all. Family, a good wife, a comfortable home, good health, and great friends are what are really important, and I have been blessed with them all.

What will I do with money? Well, I have taught my kids well. They are good kids and are fiscally responsible. I choose to leave a legacy for them, something I didn't have. I worked for everything I have, and that makes you understand how hard and long it is to become truly financially independent. I don't squander it. I want to own what I have so no one can take it away from me. Security is important, so right now, I'm very happy to align myself with Scrooge McDuck.

lilengineerboy

I didn't mean to sound as critical as I did of your choices. I think that if you have what you want and you are happy with your life, then thats great. I understand what you mean about the art of the deal, I think purchase price has a lot to do with my satisfaction with the product.
I also understand the desire for security as people age. A common financial goal among my family's previous generation is to pay off their homes. I frankly personally don't care. My current return on investment in stocks/mutual funds/ETFs is about 3x the interest on my mortgage and that interest is tax deductible (not that its a massive amount saved up, but I would rather build that up then pay down my mortgage). The car loans are also very low even compared to savings account rates, although they aren't tax deductible (and the balances are relatively low at this point as well). I have plenty of time to pay off the house. If anything, I wish we had less into the house, I don't think we are upside-down yet, which makes lenders a lot more willing to work with you as necessary.

55396

"I didn't mean to sound as critical as I did of your choices."

Not a problem. We each make our own choices. At different times in our lives, we may make different choices for the same situation. Understand that I don't operate in the norm. My choice only. It takes discipline, and many don't have it or haven't learned to do it that way. What I would do when I got the urge to trade cars was to call the license bureau, then the insurance company, then ask the dollar amount for the total interest to be paid over the life of the loan. Amazingly, after I totaled that and estimated depreciation, I no longer wanted the damn thing. No anchor around my neck. ;-)

I was just setting up auto bill pay and I saw the statements for the refrigerator, carpet and couch for the AZ place. Interest for one year is $500. We financed them because we had to furnish the whole place. BUT, we only did it because of deferred interest, so that 500 bucks stays in my pocket and can be applied to something else. Do that a few times and you're almost talking real money. Then spread that method out over a few years and see how far ahead you could be. I imagine most people who are in debt just kind of ignore how much is going out for interest. Take a good look, everyone. You may want to get rid of it as fast as you can. And making minimum payments only? You wouldn't let anyone else do that to you. You will be making payments forever. That's just plain crazy.

" My current return on investment in stocks/mutual funds/ETFs is about 3x the interest on my mortgage and that interest is tax deductible (not that its a massive amount saved up, but I would rather build that up then pay down my mortgage). The car loans are also very low even compared to savings account rates, although they aren't tax deductible (and the balances are relatively low at this point as well)."

NOW you're talking my language. Good for you. That makes sense. I did the same on our town home by letting an annuity make the payments while hopefully still generating 4% above the loan interest. My house loan was 5.5% when I had one, so with the high interest rates at the time - up to 21%, I just let it run it's course and paid cash for things. And talk about getting ripped off, Home Depot, and I suspect most others are charging 21% right now. Talk about a spread. There oughta be a law. That's hiway robbery.

usedcar4me

I've always leased new cars, and now am looking at used.

A dealer near me has what looks to be a clean, well kept and maintained American luxury car for sale (not same make as what dealer sells). It has 1 year left under warranty. Their asking price is $27k, which is on the low side of other asking prices at dealers for similar car with similar miles in the area.

For what it's worth, the Edmunds TMV for trade-in is $26k, dealer retail $29k. The auction/cash value is around $22-$23k.

I want to offer what I can afford, which is around $23.5k (plus the ever present $500 dealer fee), plus tax, tag, title. I plan on paying with preapproved credit through my credit union. I do not have a trade.

The car has been on the lot for about a month now.

Is it as simple as offering $23.5k, and if they don't accept, say thanks and walk? I do not need a car now, and can walk easily.

Do I start lower in hopes of moving up to $23.5k?

mikefm58

Yes it can be as simple as you described. Make your offer, inclusive of dealer fees, also add tax, tag and title if you know what they are for a final out the door price. In these parts, that's called the infamous Bobst method of buying cars. If they accept, great, if not, be ready to walk. Just be courteous, professional, but firm in your dealings.

lilengineerboy

I would be straight. Tell them what you are willing to pay for the vehicle and your calculated out the door price. If they say no, then you have to decide how much you want the car, but I would at least leave to go think about it.

qbrozen

Sounds like q is in his cups...

that made me laugh ... but I don't know why because I have NO idea what it means.

qbrozen

I thought that's what I was doing.

well, yeah, that's true.
we both kind of took an extremist view to make a point. Personally, I wouldn't go for an Aveo or a Bentley. I won't waste big bucks on a vehicle, but I do enjoy my vehicles and demand a certain amount of fun and luxury. It gives me pleasure. I constantly think of cars and when my next fun jaunt will be, but I never think about my fridge or stove. So while I will finance a $40k car (or at least entertain the idea ... I have yet to buy anything that expensive yet), I do it because it puts a smile on my face everytime I drive it. I don't consider that wasteful.

55396

I do enjoy my vehicles and demand a certain amount of fun and luxury. It gives me pleasure. I constantly think of cars and when my next fun jaunt will be, but I never think about my fridge or stove.

I don't disagree one bit. I just do it after someone else takes the first hit. Then I really smile when I drive it. Rather than spending $40k and getting a $30k car (lucky to have that when you drive it off the lot - don't forget taxes etc.), I can spend $40k and get a slightly used $60k car. Yup, a fridge doesn't turn my crank either.

deskman

base, touring or limited? awd or fwd?

a base fwd offer 15350 +++

a base awd offer 16400 +++

touring fwd offer 16450+++

touring awd offer 17500+++

limited fwd offer 20950+++

limited awd offer 22000+++

The Deskman is not always coming from the Darkside :P

oldfarmer50

"...Sounds like q is in his cups..." "...I have NO idea what it means..."

I think it means you are drunk. :confuse:

fezo

very good. The comment, of course, was just about something he said involving cups which by now, of course, I have forgotten....

jmonroe

The comment, of course, was just about something he said involving cups which by now, of course, I have forgotten....

Hey 'fez', you had me confused with that "cups" thing too.

'q' ain't the one that brought up the "cups" thing. That was that numbers guy (55396) in post 4422. If you paid your dues on time, you would know that Edmunds sends a score card upon receipt of timely payments.

jmonroe

fezo

Darn it! You're right. No wonder he didn't get it.