Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Explain this one to us please. Does the holdback go to the dealer the car was shipped to? If so, certainly there must be an 'arrangement' of some kind like a car swap or a passthrough.
Exactly. I wrote the very thing several times in the past couple of years. The bobst method will be a humongous waste of time for most people.
I still advocate the Jipst Method of car buying as the best.
How about a little more he said she said?
But, if his offer is rejected, he does add $100 at the next dealer, assuming that his offer was too low. He also doesn't believe it was rejected until they let him drive off the lot.
It helps to shop Honda products since there are just a few configurations (and prices) so it really is apples to apple.
The logic behind the method is that Bobst doesn't feel comfortable negotiating, and doesn't trust himself to make an on the spot decision. So, it is take it or leave it offer.
I believe he is also retired and has the time. Plus in his area, there is a Honda dealer about every 100 yards.
I am still waiting for my royaltys for copywriting the verb "to Bobst"
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
-Moo
Hope that helped.
-moo
Well, unfortunately I can't do that. Customers always say that they won't move on their offer and make a feint for the door. 99% of them sit back down when I'm talking to them. I just let him know his offer wasn't doable and we discussed different scenarios to make the purchase more palatable for him. We split the cost of certifying the vehicle with him and bumped him several thousand on the asking price as well.
I guess I kind of held the cards in this situation because I knew he wanted the vehicle bad. That makes it a little easier in your negotiations. It's hard to hide that look in your eyes. :P
-Moo
I've always said, A good salesperson can read their suck - er, customer and make LOTS of money.
I recall talking to the guys at a local dealer, and they told of a doctor who came in and paid full sticker. They thought that he was the biggest idiot in the world. I also remember when a dealer had a hot seller, and they marked it up $1000. Probaby $2000 today. I made a vow to never buy from that dealer, and I kept it. Pure greed.
Could he have done it better? Maybe. However, for him/her the time/aggravation more than offsets the few hundred he could theoretically save.
Embarrass me? Hardly. Significant difference? Again hardly. Let's agree to disagree. OK?
Hmmm, I seem to remember the method as Fezo described it. Why would you add $100 at the next dealer? He could just call dealer #1 as he was driving away and make his new offer.
Also, I doubt $100 difference is a deal breaker from the dealer's perspective. Folks in the biz, is that true?
Better than $100 over invoice. Boy I haven't learned anything about car buying then.
I assume you are talking about cars like Bobst's beloved Hondas. I have heard that they go close to invoice. But I doubt I could do better on one of your cars.
If I'm wrong I would like to make an appointment.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Hopefully Bobst turns up again some day to clarify it.
If he does, ask him to tel lthe key story!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
It's the same premise that moo just stated, only in reverse - in moo's situation, the customer says no way is he going any higher, but moo thinks he just might. Bobst's salesperson says that no way is his offer acceptable, but Bobst thinks it just might be.
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Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Only the salespeople here would be able to say how often this "method" actually works. So, here is a question for the salespeople. What % of the time do you guys chase a guy out the showroom while he is driving away and accept his take it or leave it offer? What % do you call on the phone saying his take it or leave it offer is accepted. I'm guessing it is a low percentage. So, my conclusion remains that for the vast majority of us the take it or leave it (bobst method) is a waste of time.
My opinion is that there are better ways of using your time. However, as I mentioned before, Bobst supposedly made "reasonable" offers which he knew a dealer should be happy making. Under that umbrella, then it should work for him on a regular basis. The only downside, the average reader may take this to the next extreme. He offers $7k under invoice and keeps running around trying to find a dealer to do it. The customer hasn't done his research, doesn't have a good idea of what the vehicle goes for and is simply uneducated about the process.
At any rate, in response to an earlier question about invoice pricing on Porsches. Ya, not gonna happen.
:P
-moo
Thanks for confirming this although I really didn't need the the confirmation. I already knew the down side to buying like the guy in question and I've said it here before:
"The second worst thing is to have hot pants when buying a car. The worst thing is to let the salesman know it".
How many times have we heard here: "If you don't ask you won't get".
I don't blame you for what you did, I'd have done the same thing.
When you gotta have something you just gotta have it!
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
-moo
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
I guess the question then becomes, how often are "reasonable" take it or leave it offers accepted... without the buyer willing to negotiate. You start talking about being in the business to make money, or try for the smallest bump, and bobst would start walking.
Come on up to the People's Republic of NY where the doc fees are capped at something like $50. Around here they don't like you evil capitalists taking our money (they like to do that themselves).
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I assume then that if dealer #2 bought the car outright from dealer #1, it would be less the holdback amount that dealer #1 would eventually get? It would be foolish for dealer #2 to pay the full amount and let dealer #1 keep the holdback too, unless there is another way to make that amount up - like passing it on to the customer. He ain't gonna eat it.
what changed his mind? You get him liquored up?
Well, unfortunately I can't do that."
Seems like that word unfortunate is, um, unfortunate, as it sounds like you would use that method if you could. ;-)
This is why sometimes the cost of purchasing a vehicle out of a dealer's stock seems to increase the price so much. Not only do you have to pay for transportation, but you also have to deal with the lack of holdback to put together the deal.
Again, not ALL dealers operate like this, but I would say that the majority does.
-moo
Please cancel my appointment.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Don't lose heart. If you'd like, Saturdays are like Six Flags here. Everyone get sto take a ride!! WHEEEEEEEE!!!!
-moo
That is I can ask for from a prospect. I believe you would be one of those rare consumers.
GP
It is different depending on the manufacturers.
I know here in Boston for Nissan who ever RDR"s the car gets the holdback.
GP
I would consider that "old school mentality" :mad:
I my self would be embarrassed to chase someone out to their car. One it is a waste of time and I think it is weak. If I can do the deal I'll do it. if I can't I can't.
Just how I work deals and everyone works them differantly.
I would think that could jepordise a survey. :surprise:
GP
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Anyway, I thanked them at Infiniti and left. Drove straight over to SAMS for tires, as I was leaving the next day.
When I got back to my buddies place, he said "Where have you been? Infiniti has been calling repeatedly for you to call just as soon as you get in. Seems they found out I meant what I said and quickly changed their mind, so I bought it.
Interesting car. I kicked it down at 110 and it went into passing gear. That bothered me. Bothered me because I just had to know where it would shift back out. I finally had to see. 135. Now, I'm sure some think this is BS. My similar LS 400 won't do it, and gearing is about the same. How can that be? The infiniti red lines at 7000 RPM.
If it wasn't enough profit the dealer will say no. Lets say the dealer has a line of people willing to buy the car giving him (or her) a $1000 profit and you come in offering a $500 profit, would you get the sale?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I had hoped the Q would have been the product the Lexus was as I thought Nissan was - until I saw the service records. NOT. The service manager even came up before I bought it and told me to expect to replace the brakes at 10-12,000 mile intervals, and owners I talked to verified that. I wouldn't know, as I saw enough writing on the wall to send it down the road in 3 months, when the transmission that had been recently replaced started to act up. Now, that being said, I expect they got off to a bad start and assume the problems were corrected. As far as sales are concerned - no contest. People loved Lexus. I have had my LS 400 for over 8 years. The only problem was that I had to replace the antenna shaft, as someone got a bit rambunctious exiting the garage before the door was up. However, the car doesn't get used that much and only has 59k on it. The Q was definitely faster and probably handled better, but my buddy who raced modified stock cars was quite impressed with the Lexus when we ran some hard corners this summer. I understand the new Infiniti M is quite a car. Jim Healey of USA Today raves about it and I intent to check it out in AZ. You work for Infiniti by any chance???
A while ago I did the same thing when buying a car, told the salesman here is my price not a dime more. He took it to the manager and they couldn't do it so I thanked him and started to leave. He gave me the same line about that he was there to sell cars and he didn't make any money if he didn't sell anything. I just told him he has everything he needs to know to sell me the car, at that price or not, there would be no discussion on it.
The next dealer got the sale at my price.
I for one don't see the customer doing himself a disservice by using the Bobst method. Some people don't like to haggle and for them this should work fine (if the proper research was done). Everyone is different and different things work for them.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2. Compare the car with a direct competitor (e.g. Accord vs Camry) and pretend to the dealer that you like the other car better.
3. Know the specs on the car you want so that you can prove you've done your homework.
4. Buy the consumer reports bottom line price of the vehicle you want.
5. Always have dealers compete for price. Find a price at one dealer, then go to the next dealer to see if they can beat the price...etc.
6. Buy during the later months Oct, Nov, Dec, and toward the end of the month. Buy toward the end of the day during the middle days of the week such as Tue, Wed, Thur.
7. And be able to walk out. That is your biggest weapon. Don't buy on impulse.
1. If you are my customer, and you sound like you don't like the car - I will try to sell you a different car, and I will not discount the car you don't like.
2.If you pretend you like the other car better - I will NOT retend I like the next customer better.
3. Why woudl you you do homeworkon a car you don't like? What are you trying to prove?
4. Aren't you going to negotiate the rpice of the bottom line price from Confumer reports?
5. Bobst - is that you?
6. If you come late in the day without an appointment - you are probably not going to get the best deal. I don't have the whole noght to haggle with you.
7. I would aggree on this one for SOME customers - walk out my dealership.
After a second I calmly state, I wouldn't do bus. with a dealership that would try to take such advan of a person. I further add, with an offer like this you should be wearing a mask and have a gun. He says ok, let me tell my mgr before you leave. Since it is only us there I go with him and tell him basically the same thing. With astonishment they look at me and start making excuses and by now the mgr for the entire complex is there. He says maybe we made a mistake, we have a new comp. sytem etc., then says we really didn't take a good look at your truck. I reply, if you didn't take a good look how could you give me a legitimate offer. See you later.
He pleads, please give me one more shot, we know you are upset and we want to look again at your truck. Ok, go ahead but it is getting late. After a 1/2 hour mgr & sales return with an offer for 4900 diff. I had a price in mind & was a willing buyer but said no lets part company but mgr said give me a price. I countered with 3000. He said let me check some figures, after 5 mins he counters with 4000 and we eventually agreed on 3500. I bought it and after my gm dollars paid 2150 otd. I know the dealer still made money, w/o getting into the specifics of each vehicle I thought this was fair.
Would you have continued to neg. with them after the first offer and do you think they were a little unethical trying to steal my trade? thanks for your thoughts.
Gosh, I don't know. I would be willing to give points to a salesperson willing to go the extra mile! :P
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
You asked them to give you a number on your trade right? You can offer anything you want on theirs and they can do the same for yours. It's simply an offer....
It looks like everyone did exactly as they were supposed to in this situation. You negotiated a fair deal and they sold a car.
Nothing too dramatic there right?
-moo
Sure, I would. I wouldn't have been too happy, but you at least sounded like you kept your cool enough to continue the negotiations. Unethical? No, I wouldn't say unethical? They never lied to you, did they? Trustworthy? Not in my book. But hey, business is business.
Well, you have experienced professionals trying to screw any victi, I mean customer who walks in the door. They are playing the odds, knowing full well that there will be naive people walking through their door. It's like a spider waiting for a fly, and judging by stories like this, there plenty of unscrupulous dealers out there more than willing to do it. They will screw you if they can. Buyer beware. These buyers may be best served by a one price dealership, although they can still get screwed on their trade. It just ain't safe out there.
Glad you liked the LS. Seems most seniors do. :P
I remember back in the day when those deals were called "full pop".