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Comments
I rather doubt that Lexus is willing to put in the development time and testing of the computer code required to provide such an engine. They cannot simply re-use the Prius code; it is a different engine.
How would you interpret the above statement by Toyota? If they can get 37 MPG as some have claimed with the high performance, why is 45 MPG out of reach?
Hybrid:
212 lb-ft at 4400 rpm
208 hp at 5600 rpm
Nonhybrid:
242 lb-ft at 3600 rpm
230 hp at 5600 rpm
The engine is definitely changed for hybrid application. I believe toyota made a calculated statement of avoiding the word atkinson in order not to associate with the prius having slow acceleration.
This is from www.technorocket.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=278&goto=newpost
"As a "full hybrid" the RX400h is capable of running solely on its electric motors, solely on its 3.3-liter V-6, or with the electric and internal combustion systems working in tandem. The DOHC, 24-valve V-6 is the same basic 3MZ-FE engine installed in the RX330 (and the ES330, Toyota Sienna, Solara, Highlander and some Camrys) without an alternator and with the power steering pump, water pump, and A/C compressor removed to be driven electrically. Despite that reduction in parasitic drag, revised calibration of the VVT-i variable valve timing and electronic throttle limit engine output to 208 horsepower at 5600 rpm and 212 pound-feet of peak torque at 4400 rpm compared to the RX330's 230 hp at 5600 rpm and 242 lb-ft at 3600 rpm. The lower output, claims Lexus, is "to promote smooth integration with hybrid system" which includes a unique electronically controlled continuously variable transmission (CVT) instead of the five-speed automatic transaxle to which the 3.3-liter is leashed in all its other U.S. applications."
So far the Escape, Accord, Civic, Insight, Prius, and Highlander will be represented.
***But we still need a 400h owner to come and represent your hybrid!!!****
We would love to have you come. Please contact me ASAP if you are interested in coming. The “official” deadline for buying tickets has passed, but we can still squeeze you in.
Details of the event.
Sunday July 17, 2005
Milwaukee, WI
Madison Hybrid Group invites you to attend
our 2nd Annual Miller Park Hybrid Car Event!
Have fun meeting, tailgating and talking with hybrid car owners. Ask questions, find answers, show off your car, and, oh, yeah, watch the Brewers take on the Washington D.C. Nationals.
Schedule of Events
10:00-11:00 Meet at the pre-staging area in Wauwatosa
(Same place as last year. Click on this link to create directions. http://tinyurl.com/7eywa )
11:00 Leave the staging area as a group and take a short drive to Miller Park.
11:15 Enter the “Giants“ Parking Lot as a group. ($6 per vehicle.)
11:15-1:00 Tailgate until game time. Food, conversation and fun.
1:05 Game Time
Cost: $10 per ticket which includes
-One Terrace Reserved seat in our Group's block of seats
-One FREE hot dog
-One FREE soda
-One entry into our drawing for two FREE tickets to a Monday-Thursday
game. (Non-Cubs)
To attend, please respond via this thread, or email me at
MadisonHybridGroup at gmail dot com and I’ll send you the address for mailing payment.
Eric Powers
Madison Hybrid Group
And the premium is nowhere near $10K when you factor out the equipment benefits. Even including the discounts on the RX300 -- an arbitrary inclusion to me, but whatever -- you are looking at around $5-6K in actual price difference for comparable equipment.
Figure on something like 200 gallons per year of gas savings at, say $2.25 over the next four years and you have saved well over half the difference. Figure on the greater resale value mitigating another "half" of the difference after that.
The 4-year TCO of the hybrid is barely anymore than the RX330. But the peace of mind of doing something about America's pathetic energy situation, the greenhouse effect, etc. while getting a quieter car that also outperforms the RX330 is easily worth a couple grand to myself and probably every other 400h owner.
As I understand the Miller cycle, they are taking advantage the fact that positive displacement superchargers are actually MORE efficient than piston engines at doing compression work at low pressures. By closing the intake valve later, the piston does not do the first 20% of the compression work, that is done by the supercharger in the form of forced induction. Expansion ratio is about 10:1, compression ratio 8:1. Not really a high expansion engine like the Prius at 13:1, or the Ford Escape Hybrid at 12.3:1.
Also, the number I have seen for efficiency gain of the miller is 10-15%.
Unfortunately for my mileage, I have started to really enjoy the power of this car. It pulls like a mule, you can really feel all four wheels putting down the torque, especially on uneven road surfaces. The power meter pegs at 200kW for a nice large range of speeds, from 20mph or so on up to 90mph at least, I haven't probed past there. The lag when you get on from a standstill it is a little annoying, but once you get rolling it is great, no shifts! I find that at a standstill, with my left foot on the brake, I can give it a little throttle and get the engine started to reduce the lag at launch.
How many cars let you experiment with 40MPG one day, and techniques to smoke unsuspecting sports cars the next, all in spacious comfort.
I thought about the same thing, but here are some issues to consider:
1. 400h comes as standard with nav+rear camera, swing headlights, 4WD. Those options on the 330 would push the price well above $40k. So in effect, they loaded up the 400h base, as compared to the 330.
2. Tax credit $2k (? check with your accountant). This is straight tax reduction, not a deduction of taxable income. So if you're at 33% tax bracket, this $2k tax credit is equivalent to $6k of taxable income: subtract $6k from the price!
3. Performance wise: I've used Continuous-Variable Xmission for so long that I can not stand the regular Xmission's momentary loss of drive (quarter to half of a second) when it tries to decide which gear, up or down, to shift to. It's when you slow down to turn the corner and accelerate after the turn.
4. Yes, the torque you experience from a stop: immediate, and powerful enough to get you out of trouble quickly.
And the much heralded fuel saving amounts to about $900-$1000k per year for me, so it takes some times to break even, depending on how you estimate it.
The numbers make sense for me vs. the performance I'd get.
Cheers.
It is a $2000 tax deduction not credit. If you are in the 33% bracket it will save you $660 on your tax bill.
An RX330 in San Diego with NAV, rear camera, Mark Levinson, Moonroof, HID & bluethooth is $41,283
No, I am not an engineer and never claimed to be one.
Please, let's close the "engineer" part of the discussion and move on.
Additionally the way the documents read the rear motor is never fully untilized unless wheelslip/spin is encountered at the front. Otherwise the rear motor is used only during initial acceleration from a stop, as you enter a turn, and of course at WOT.
So I suspect that the use of the atkinson cycle will result in only backing down to the level of the RX330 insofar as HP/torque is concerned. Also remember that the duration that the intake valve remains open during the compression stroke is totally MY choice.
30% might be ideal but as little as 10% might still yeild a substantial level of additional fiel economy.
You have to take into consideration that this is vvt-i and the timing of closure can vary at different engine speed and load dictated by the ECU.
From the peak torque point of view, it looks like it is already semi-atkinson because the peak torque is now at 4400 rpm compared to 3600 and the peak torque number is signifiacntly lower than the non-hybrid. It would indicate that at lower RPM the torque will be even lower.
Good luck.
I know exactly what you mean about having a hard time choosing between getting great gas mileage and utilizing its power which is fantastic. For example, I really enjoy getting into entrance ramps for the intersate and stepping on it. Man, it reaches 80mph in no time. Those behind me must be really wondering, "how can he accelerate like that with an SUV"? And in passing situations, it takes off "like a rocket". The drivers I pass must be really impressed.
The owner's manual says that any gas below 91 octane will cause "persistent heavy knocking."
Is anyone using gas below 91 octane? If yes, is there a drop off in performance and or mpg?
How about the persistent knocking warning?
If so that might account for the peak torque shift.
What do you think about simply miss-timing the existing intake cams?
Just shift the cam timing for the intake valves so they open late on the intake cycle and then remain open for the early portion of the compression cycle.
On the cheap trial.
If so that might account for the peak torque shift. "
I agree, the hybrid inhales less air per cycle at lower RPM partly due to the absence of the ram effect of the long intake runners. But I think the other factor is reprofiled intake cam.
"What do you think about simply miss-timing the existing intake cams?
Just shift the cam timing for the intake valves so they open late on the intake cycle and then remain open for the early portion of the compression cycle.
On the cheap trial."
I think in the dual intake cam of the vvt-i, only one of them is variable, the other is fixed. The degree of the variation on the first cam provides the resultant opening span. Taking this into account, the setting is capable of atkinson (late intake closure).
However, toyota opted to retain power so the logical choice would be to adjust the inake setting close to otto cycle at higher RPM.
The result is excellent efficiency at low horsepower production necessary for steady speed plus the retention of power at higher RPM.
I would imagine that to have a fixed atkinson all throughout the rev range would require the RX400H to over-rev at the slightest hint of acceleration just to comply with the hp requirement. But that can also be taken cared off by the battery.
However, if the battery is out of charge, you will end up with a noisy buzzing engine.
You're right. it is a tax deduction, which effectively means $2000 off of the price.
re: An RX330 in San Diego with NAV, rear camera, Mark Levinson, Moonroof, HID & bluethooth is $41,283
Have you checked the all wheel drive price?
$41,283 is the AWD price for the RX330. I am not sure what you mean by deduction. You get to reduce your adjusted gross income by $2000. If you are in the 33% bracket you will save $660. Not like a tax credit where it reduces your tax bill. Only Electric and alternate fuel vehicles qualify for the maximum $4000 tax credit.
A week? No problem. If it were 3 weeks, there might be some cause for concern, but yours should be fine.
http://www.earthtoys.com/emagazine.php?issue_number=05.06.01&article=naftc
It is expensive, but it is better than anything I had tried. You'd get the awesome "wet" look on your car. You just wipe the solution on your car, wait 'til it dries off, then simply wipe it off with a clean white cloth (no need for power buffing, no worn out muscles).
If you wax it repeatedly 3-5 times, you'd get a nice and thick layer on your car. It lasts a very long time as long as you dont wash your car with a strong detergent.
Check it out. It will enhance the "new" look on your rx400h. Note that darker colors would always look better.
Amazed in Arlington, VA
*warning: washing and waxing may become addictive after discovering these products*
The manual suggests disconnecting the aux battery if you will leave the car sit for a month, I think.
You should be just fine.
That should have been:
(The owner's manual recommends that you not use the power back door before starting the car after leaving the car undriven for two weeks.)
Apparently the industry is struggling to figure out how to keep the catalyst above or near its 750F optimum operating temperature in hybrid systems. According to the patent the ICE even needs to be operating under a significant load level in order for the exhaust gasses to retain enough energy to maintain the catalyst at the optimum operating temperature level.
So:
No atkinson cycle.
And the engine must be run UNDER LOAD in order for the exhaust gasses to be HOT enough to keep the catalyst LIT-OFF.
Absent using the energy recovered via regenerative braking to keep the catalyst lit-off, as proposed in the above referenced patent.