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Thanks!
It's also a bit puzzling as to why owners seem to expect the hybrid to meet the EPA MPG ratings. Our Prius averages 42MPG, mostly city, and while that is no where near the EPA numbers I remain very pleased it.
I have come to suspect that the rX's mPG ratings has to do with the need to run the ICE for reasons other than just drive torque and/or battery charging. I have convinced myself that the ICE is often fired up in order to keep the catalytic convertor up to operational temperature. I'm also not so sure that it doesn't get fired up in order to keep the engine coolant hot enough for proper operation of the climate control's reheat/remix cycle.
If the ICE needs to run for the clear majority of the time in any case, that would obviously explain why highway fuel economy will overshadow city.
I think I read that the 04 Prius, the first MY with electric A/C compressor, has a c-best option wherein the reheat/remix cycle can be disabled such that hot coolant flow is not a requirement. If the RX had that feature the city MPG would likely improve substantially. That is provided the catalytic convertor doesn't require ICE heating just as often.
Normally I would be in the market for a 2006 RX, either the 330 (350?) or the 400, about now. But I am currently caught up in designing and implementing several modifications to my 2001 AWD series. Initial effort is to make the climate control more capable (a LOT moreso) of defogging the windshield and then more easily maintaining it in a defogged state.
Also at the moment getting a quote to convert the PTO in my 2001 to eliminate the mechanical coupling to the front axle and thereby have viscous clutch (only) coupling to the front.
Very nervous about having to endure another winter with the windshield spontaneously fogging over in addition to the inherent hazards of FWD operation on snow or ice covered surfaces.
You will be impressed with the power of the 400h. It will really get up and go!!
My brother has had his 400h for 4 weeks. He really likes it, especially the fuel mileage which is typically in the mid 20s. His previous vehicle was a GM SUV.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/31/automobiles/31AUTO.html?
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/31/automobiles/31TOYOTA.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/31/automobiles/31EPA.html
You may have to register (it's free) to read them. The jist of the articles, that include much test driving, is that the fuel efficiency of the Lexus RH 440h and Toyota Highlander SUV hybrids was very dissappointing. There was barely any mileage difference between them and their much less expensive gasoline-powered relatives.
Remember the long delay from the initial delivery date to when the vehicle was finally available for sale to the public?
That was most likely done when the initial design wouldn't meet the EPA/CARB emissions requirements. Probably all because the catalytic converter had to be kept ALIVE.
Couldn't use atkinson cycle, not enough FIRE in the exhaust manifold.
Couldn't scale the Prius catalytic converter design approach up to the level required to support a ~3L V6 engine so the engine has to run often enough to keep the converter FIRED up.
The result...
Better highway mileage than city. ICE has to run full time on highway regardless.
Catch 22 in spades.
I cancelled my preorder, real one, after the 3rd delivery delay, just recently discovered that on was still listed twice, both at the same dealer.
I was told that unless I wanted something "special" I could likely have an RX400h with a week.
There does seem to be more variability in reported highway numbers than I would expect. In our RX400H, the freeway mileage seems to be much more constant than the "city" mileage - which is understandable because cruising at high speed reduces the effect of some of the variables such as how often the AC is on. It makes me wonder whether there is something that varies in the set up of the RX400H that does this or whether it can all be explained by variability in the driver, fuel, tire pressure and driving conditions.
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/lexus/rx400h/100521765/roadtestarticle.html?articleId=1062- 71
Emissions???? With new upcoming emissions regulations even that is becoming a feeble excuse for buying a rx400h.
If it's really true that highway fuel economy is 28 MPG, or even in that range, that in itself will be a significant advantage. My 2001 AWD RX300's best is ~22 MPG highway.
In summation, I do not believe these NY Times articles.
While I have no where near the mileage under my belt as others have posted, I have done a bit of studying on the reporting system Lexus has in the vehicle, and have monitored my own driving habits.
Bottom line for me: best mileage is when I am driving in and around town, in the range of 20-40 MPH.
I live on a large hill; for the first 10-15 minutes of driving, the screen that displays MPG in the 5 minute bar graphs, shows that I am generating lots of power, battery typically goes green, and I average 30-40 MPG. I notice little difference between setting transmission on B, or just using the brakes. (7 miles)
Next is fairly level driving thru town, and I average 20-30 MPG for next 10-20 minutes (another 7 miles).
Today, I went over hill and dale, for another 15 miles, and averaged 30-40 MPG.
Going up my hill on the return, MPG drops to 10-20 for the trip back home.
Overall for 40 miles today - 30, and my average MPG for this tank jumped from 21 to 23.5.
Of course, your mileage will vary; I'm going to try the EPA test to see what I get under those conditions, but the previous info here, is probably representative.
Yesterday, did some freeway driving, and the MPG was 22-28 for 30 miles or so; again some hills.
Bottom line:
- on the flats with continuous driving at highway speeds, it is just another car
- over hill and dale, in city stop and go driving with some coasting and moderate speeds of 20-40 MPH, expect to see some benefits of the hybrid technology
For the hybrid critics: there are many, many types of cars to choose from; there is NO perfect car. As the articles pointed out, Lexus/Toyota targeted a particular market, and provided a fine vehicle, setting a new benchmark in performance.
No amount of analysis will make the numbers turn out to be attractive or cost effective. The choice of the 400h is one of wanting to support the hybrid development efforts, and be one of the first to exploit the benefits and limitations of the technology.
My decision was not a financial decision. Rather, I believe Lexus is going to make sure this car is NOT a lemon.
Mike
The vehicle is otherwise great. The luxury features, the extra power is nice, but that was not OUR primary motivation for the purchase. We wanted to use less gas - and we simply are not.
Here's hoping Lexus comes out with some type of software adjustment sometime in the future that will improve the MPG.
Nothing less.
I get 25-27 on every tankful. Period.
No RX330 could even come close to matching that with where I drive and the freeway speeds I drive at.
I'm obviously not the only one.
The author is a moron.
Anyone doing their job would've contacted owners for their experiences. And Lexus corporate for a rebuttal or some comments.
Instead, an article with no scientific data, one anecdotal test, and an obvious agenda.
What a friggin' joke.
Psychology 101 teaches that when someone spends a lot of money on something, they tend to rationalize and overestimate the merits of their purchases . Independent and objective test drives by non-owners are most objective, whether its done by the NY Times or any other publication(except maybe a Toyota marketing publication)!
And I rather doubt that really means you're jealous of their purchase.
Okay, but RX400h owners are giving actual MPG figures for their vehicles, which has nothing to do with Psychology 101. These owner's on average are showing pretty good MPG numbers.
Furthermore, how do you calculate the intrinsic value of owning a hybrid? People regularly spend $10K premiums for European cars that are frankly not as reliable or economical or even as plush as luxury Japanese cars. Why? Because owning a European car says something they like about who they are as people. Same thing with many buyers of big American trucks.
I think that Toyota realized this pretty early on, and that's why they went with power, rather than MPG.
The NY Times ability to publish articles that are factually correct has become difficult for them in the last few years. This is but another example.
But I know what my Honda Pilot did in fuel use and anything better than that is a real plus to me. It may take a few years to get my money back in gas savings, but I don't think gas prices are going down (yesterday futures hit an all-time high) and I'm in this for the long term and for the power and comfort, too.
Miraculous is the word!
By the end of this decade, Toyota plans for 25 percent of U.S. sales to be hybrid vehicles."
http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/03/Autos/toyota_hybrid_push/index.htm
This article talks about what the RX400h was designed for as well as future hybrids possibly having a switch on the dash board that would give the choice between gas mileage and performance.
So now forum members are going to take digital shots to prove their mileage. BIG DEAL!!!
Please spare us the ridiculous exercise of flaunting the best mileage you received so far on a tank full of gas! That figure is irrelevant since in the real world it is the gas mileage since purchasing a car that should be relevent.
in the July 31, 2005 edition of the publication.
For a full version, go to their web site.
2006 Lexus RX 400h: The Hybrid Emperor's New Clothes
One question lingers after driving the 2006 Lexus RX 400h:
How did it come to this, that Toyota is now selling a hybrid
gas-electric vehicle with no tangible fuel economy benefits?
...
In my test-driving, the Lexus hybrid, which is based on the
gasoline-only RX 330, did not achieve better mileage than the 2005 RX 330 that I
drove for comparison.
...
My hybrid tester's window sticker did boast a federal mileage rating of
31 miles per gallon in the city and 27 on the highway, compared with
just 18 and 24 for the RX without the hybrid drivetrain. But the
government's testing procedure has a habit - one that seems to be exaggerated
with hybrids - of rendering fuel economy numbers as relevant to the real
world as national energy policies have been to actually reducing
dependence on foreign oil.
....
The hybrid version of the Lexus sport utility wagon follows in the
tracks of the 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid by offering more horsepower than the
conventional version of the same vehicle....
. . .
The RX 400h's
failure to deliver, in my experience, even a nominal improvement in gas
mileage still seems like a sin of omission. It has been fundamental to
the understanding and acceptance of hybrids that they offer better fuel
economy than vehicles powered by conventional gasoline engines.
...
Environmental advocates
do not proclaim the righteousness of all things Toyota based on the
958,888 light trucks and S.U.V.'s that it sold in the United States last
year, fully 47 percent of its total sales. By comparison, only 53,991
Priuses were sold in 2004
...
I drove the 200 miles from Chicago to Grand Rapids, Mich..... By the time I returned to
Chicago, I had put 531 miles on the odometer and calculated my fuel
economy at 20.9 m.p.g.
....
(I) later tested another RX 400h for
a week. I drove this one 556 miles and did a bit better, averaging 23.0
m.p.g.
......
I'll be charitable and call the gas mileage comparison between the
hybrids and the standard RX a draw, though there is a clear loser - anyone
who buys an RX 400h on the assumption that it will use appreciably less
fuel in a range of driving situations.
.......
That it doesn't forces one to consider the RX 400h on its other merits,
of which there are precious few.
You make a great point but the NYT didn't have a problem with showing what they got on a relatively short amount of time, and you had no problem with that. For your information, I'm not going to post "the best mileage" , I'm going to post what I have on my current tank of gas which is very typical for what I have gotten over the life of the vehicle. If you know a way of showing what my car has gotten over it's 5,600+ miles I will be happy to do it, you would be surprised with the results. FYI, for someone that doesn't even own a Lexus, you certainly spend a lot of time trying to bash them.
There seems to be a very thin line between wanting valid facts(mpg since ownership) and bashing poor Lexus. Bashing Lexus was not my intention and I apologize if I offended any Lexus fans out there.
The most objective info would be from long term tests of the RH among auto mags and websites. Selectively picking one mpg gas tank reading is as valid as an investment manager only picking his good years of investment returns(1 good year and 10 lousy years)
The fact of the matter is you agree 100% with me about the objectivity of long term tests over short term tests. That was my point!