What do you now think of the hybred?? Sort of hate to do something without your thoughts.....This isn`t to say I don`t appreciate all you other posters, just that over the years wwest has had detailed knowledge about the mechanics.....It does seem that the majority of people with actual driving experience appreciate the aceleration more than the rather modest fuel efficiency......We have been thinking possibly of the bmw stationwagon, which is lighter, and gets in the higher twenties on the road...It is qwfully hard to go against the Lexus though, as the dealership here where we live is really good...Tony
It seems overall well done. I remain a bit puzzled about why owners are reporting better MPG on highway, ~28, versus city, ~24. Everything I know would indicate better city MPG as in our 2003 Prius.
It's also a bit puzzling as to why owners seem to expect the hybrid to meet the EPA MPG ratings. Our Prius averages 42MPG, mostly city, and while that is no where near the EPA numbers I remain very pleased it.
I have come to suspect that the rX's mPG ratings has to do with the need to run the ICE for reasons other than just drive torque and/or battery charging. I have convinced myself that the ICE is often fired up in order to keep the catalytic convertor up to operational temperature. I'm also not so sure that it doesn't get fired up in order to keep the engine coolant hot enough for proper operation of the climate control's reheat/remix cycle.
If the ICE needs to run for the clear majority of the time in any case, that would obviously explain why highway fuel economy will overshadow city.
I think I read that the 04 Prius, the first MY with electric A/C compressor, has a c-best option wherein the reheat/remix cycle can be disabled such that hot coolant flow is not a requirement. If the RX had that feature the city MPG would likely improve substantially. That is provided the catalytic convertor doesn't require ICE heating just as often.
Normally I would be in the market for a 2006 RX, either the 330 (350?) or the 400, about now. But I am currently caught up in designing and implementing several modifications to my 2001 AWD series. Initial effort is to make the climate control more capable (a LOT moreso) of defogging the windshield and then more easily maintaining it in a defogged state.
Also at the moment getting a quote to convert the PTO in my 2001 to eliminate the mechanical coupling to the front axle and thereby have viscous clutch (only) coupling to the front.
Very nervous about having to endure another winter with the windshield spontaneously fogging over in addition to the inherent hazards of FWD operation on snow or ice covered surfaces.
I am sort of gun-shy about this purchase...I have arranged with the dealer to borrow the h over the weekend...I have never done this before, but we really want to make sure it drives well....I spoke with the sevice manager, and he strongly advised us to really make sure we liked how it drove, as it is different...Our experience with our dealer has been superb, and we have also been a superb customer, and would like to remane one....It would seem that the aceleration would be peppier, and if we drove as we usually do, the milage would be in the mid twenties, which is fine...We think the interior is a bit spartain as we like the wood trim...It is a heavy car so that should make it safer..I`l keep everyone informed....The bmw is the other choice..Stationwagon....I`m sure we will like how it drives better...Tony
anthony...There is a Lexus sales event currently going on. Ends on Sept. 5. Have they offered you any type of discount on the 400h because of the sales event???
You will be impressed with the power of the 400h. It will really get up and go!! Some of the features are definitely lacking, especially the lack of satellite radio. (I just read a post somewhere that said that satellite radio would be offered in 2006.) Also, I think the color choices are poor, especially since the color of the dash does not match the interior color.
My brother has had his 400h for 4 weeks. He really likes it, especially the fuel mileage which is typically in the mid 20s. His previous vehicle was a GM SUV.
The *sale* running thru Sep. 5 is typically B.S. Basically they have slightly lower interest rates and money factors to clear out 2005 inventory on slow selling models and some cars may have slight incentives. I doubt the RX400h will get any incentives in any form.
You may have to register (it's free) to read them. The jist of the articles, that include much test driving, is that the fuel efficiency of the Lexus RH 440h and Toyota Highlander SUV hybrids was very dissappointing. There was barely any mileage difference between them and their much less expensive gasoline-powered relatives.
is quite well aware of the situation. That's why the production volume is so low at the onset. Even at that there seems to be a surplus of product out there in the marketplace.
Remember the long delay from the initial delivery date to when the vehicle was finally available for sale to the public?
That was most likely done when the initial design wouldn't meet the EPA/CARB emissions requirements. Probably all because the catalytic converter had to be kept ALIVE.
Couldn't use atkinson cycle, not enough FIRE in the exhaust manifold.
Couldn't scale the Prius catalytic converter design approach up to the level required to support a ~3L V6 engine so the engine has to run often enough to keep the converter FIRED up.
The result...
Better highway mileage than city. ICE has to run full time on highway regardless.
Using atkinson cycle in the RX400h would have likely rendered even better highway fuel economy, but due to the need to run an atkinson ICE continuously even WORSE city fuel economy.
Do you think the lackluster mileage gain in the RX400h & HH will spell the end of large Toyota hybrids? All I heard before the vehicle hit the showrooms was how they had 12,000 sold and waiting lists 100+ long. Two months later you can go to most any Lexus dealer in the US and buy one the same day.
I think they've already sold close to 12,000 Lexus versions. People are still paying sticker or a little less so there is not a great supply out there. Maybe people will buy them when they learn about the tax credit. Regardless of what the article says, Toyota won't have trouble selling every one of them. It will be interesting to see how well their Camry version sells.
I have been told by more than one dealership that the 12,000 (some said 16,000)preorders was a figment of the salespersons imagination. Salespersons figured it would be a "hot" item, so in order to get good allocation anyone that expressed any interest at all got added to the preorder list.
I cancelled my preorder, real one, after the 3rd delivery delay, just recently discovered that on was still listed twice, both at the same dealer.
I was told that unless I wanted something "special" I could likely have an RX400h with a week.
The mileage in those articles seems much worse than what we are getting. For highway driving and any kind of sustained city driving, we are between 25 and 27 mpg (over about 5 tanks now). Short trips especially in the heat of the day drop us down into the low 20's. We haven't had a drive through the Sierra's or at sustained 70 mph on I-5 yet, but I wouldn't expect mountains or sustained speeds above 65 mph to drop it down to the 20 to 23 mpg that the reporters put out. There numbers were also much worse than what I've seen in earlier reviews.
There does seem to be more variability in reported highway numbers than I would expect. In our RX400H, the freeway mileage seems to be much more constant than the "city" mileage - which is understandable because cruising at high speed reduces the effect of some of the variables such as how often the AC is on. It makes me wonder whether there is something that varies in the set up of the RX400H that does this or whether it can all be explained by variability in the driver, fuel, tire pressure and driving conditions.
The Lexus RX400H is a overpriced turkey with little redeeming value. Gas mileage is no longer a selling point. Future maintenance issues are no selling point. So why buy a RX400H?
Emissions???? With new upcoming emissions regulations even that is becoming a feeble excuse for buying a rx400h.
If it's really true that highway fuel economy is 28 MPG, or even in that range, that in itself will be a significant advantage. My 2001 AWD RX300's best is ~22 MPG highway.
I am not about to call the NY Times articles lies, but I have no idea why their gas mileage is so low in their testing. There have been numerous posts here concerning the gas mileage of the RX400h and the great majority are reporting very decent gas mileage. Most are getting close to the EPA estimates and in some cases even better, as long as it is not 95-105 degrees outside & the AC is not running full blast. Personally, in my tests, I conclusively proved that one can do better than the EPA estimate in the city (see my posts from a couple months ago). Others also proved that one can exceed the EPA estimate at least in the city. The highway gas mileage is highly dependent on wind speed and direction, temperature, type of terrain, etc., but I have been averaging close to the EPA estimate of 27 mpg without the AC on.
In summation, I do not believe these NY Times articles.
I read the Sunday NY Times articles, and was feeling a bit depressed until I read the one sidebar on how EPA does its testing - interesting conditions for sure.
While I have no where near the mileage under my belt as others have posted, I have done a bit of studying on the reporting system Lexus has in the vehicle, and have monitored my own driving habits.
Bottom line for me: best mileage is when I am driving in and around town, in the range of 20-40 MPH.
I live on a large hill; for the first 10-15 minutes of driving, the screen that displays MPG in the 5 minute bar graphs, shows that I am generating lots of power, battery typically goes green, and I average 30-40 MPG. I notice little difference between setting transmission on B, or just using the brakes. (7 miles)
Next is fairly level driving thru town, and I average 20-30 MPG for next 10-20 minutes (another 7 miles).
Today, I went over hill and dale, for another 15 miles, and averaged 30-40 MPG.
Going up my hill on the return, MPG drops to 10-20 for the trip back home.
Overall for 40 miles today - 30, and my average MPG for this tank jumped from 21 to 23.5.
Of course, your mileage will vary; I'm going to try the EPA test to see what I get under those conditions, but the previous info here, is probably representative.
Yesterday, did some freeway driving, and the MPG was 22-28 for 30 miles or so; again some hills.
Bottom line: - on the flats with continuous driving at highway speeds, it is just another car - over hill and dale, in city stop and go driving with some coasting and moderate speeds of 20-40 MPH, expect to see some benefits of the hybrid technology
For the hybrid critics: there are many, many types of cars to choose from; there is NO perfect car. As the articles pointed out, Lexus/Toyota targeted a particular market, and provided a fine vehicle, setting a new benchmark in performance.
No amount of analysis will make the numbers turn out to be attractive or cost effective. The choice of the 400h is one of wanting to support the hybrid development efforts, and be one of the first to exploit the benefits and limitations of the technology.
My decision was not a financial decision. Rather, I believe Lexus is going to make sure this car is NOT a lemon.
As this is to be my wife`s car, she and I did our number on Saturday...We drove the H and were impressed with how the electrical component and the motor worked...The suv felt more balanced than the old rx...The interior left something to be desired imo,,It was very responsive..The fuel economy was not a factor as to time and distance...I just imagine we would get an average as the rest of the board has reported...We ended up purchasing a bmw station wagon...It was as you can imagine a bmw to be..The Idrive is cumbersome but not to the degree my wife who is not computer literate could not get it to work...The sales lady was not so high on it , but did say in a week or two it would become intuitave....The dealership Rick Hendrick in Charleson S.C was not pushy and offered around three thousand off all in all...They offered it of almost right off the bat, and that kepu us more interested, right off the bat....Sometimes it can be hard to negociate with German auto companies......I also read today the writeup in NYT....I would think the people who own the H would be a better source on the gas mileage, but I would think the author had his or her experience....I always wait til wwest makes a conclusion, and as he was not totally sold we went ahed with the bmw....Just our experience Tony
We have had our 400h since late April and only have 3500 miles on it, but our experience has gone from very happy to wish we had just gone with the 330. The car is great, but we bought the car in hopes the MPG would be much better than it has been. We did not buy a luxury vehicle so that we could drive around with the climate control OFF! In the spring (with the A/C off) and driving slightly longer distances, the mpg actually approached estimated figures, but now that the heat of the summer is here and the trips are often short distances, the average is in the low 20's. That is just unacceptable considering what we had expected. This is not going to win repeat customers for the Lexus/Toyota family.
The vehicle is otherwise great. The luxury features, the extra power is nice, but that was not OUR primary motivation for the purchase. We wanted to use less gas - and we simply are not.
Here's hoping Lexus comes out with some type of software adjustment sometime in the future that will improve the MPG.
NY Times is not unique with such shoddy results in terms of gas mileage for the RH! Objectivity from owners becomes quite debatable especially due to the psychology of purchases.
Psychology 101 teaches that when someone spends a lot of money on something, they tend to rationalize and overestimate the merits of their purchases . Independent and objective test drives by non-owners are most objective, whether its done by the NY Times or any other publication(except maybe a Toyota marketing publication)!
If people want to pay 50k for an SUV they're entitled to do it. At least they'll feel happy getting close to 30 MPG and travelling in great comfort. They can also have the last laugh when they pull up to the Hummer that is getting 1/3 of what they're getting in mileage. I say more power to them. Anyone that condemns someone for what they buy is just plain jealous. Plain and simple. I would NOT buy the RH, but I can understand why some people would.
I did not condemn the Hummer. If people want to buy them it is fine by me. I don't even have anything against them. I just can enjoy the fact that my mileage is better than theirs. It was merely used as a basis for comparison. Lately I've been thinking of buying one for my weekend getaways. There are some really great deals on them.
My mileage at 6000 miles is 23.5. Was about 26 before I started using the ac. The Times article was idiotic. We have a VW that is about the same size and weight, with an 8 cylinder 4.2 liter engine rated at 315 HP and it averages 13 mpg. The correct comparison is to conventional ICE SUVs with comparable HP and performance parameters. What mileage does the Acura MDX show in 90 degree weather? I'll bet it's not 23.5.
"Psychology 101 teaches that when someone spends a lot of money on something, they tend to rationalize and overestimate the merits of their purchases . "
Okay, but RX400h owners are giving actual MPG figures for their vehicles, which has nothing to do with Psychology 101. These owner's on average are showing pretty good MPG numbers.
What is with all of the hand-wringing over comparisons to the RX330? Personally, I was going to buy the 330 until I test drove the 400 on some highway ramps. The extra power sold me right away. You just can't really compare the two. As the VW owner pointed out, SUVs with functionally similar engines get 15-18mpg on average. No cars or SUVs get their advertised gas mileage estimates. Those with buyer's remorse over gas mileage simply should have bought a 4 cyl vehicle. Why blame the vehicle when the real problem is consumers who don't understand their own preferences & the gas mileage rating system?
Furthermore, how do you calculate the intrinsic value of owning a hybrid? People regularly spend $10K premiums for European cars that are frankly not as reliable or economical or even as plush as luxury Japanese cars. Why? Because owning a European car says something they like about who they are as people. Same thing with many buyers of big American trucks.
The RX400h was not designed for MPG, it was designed for performance. If you view it from the performance aspect, it gives very good MPG for the great performance, and you will be pleased. If you view it from expectation of "green" or high MPG, you will be disappointed, but you should not be surprised. One simply doesn't get really good mileage with a large V6 and a high profile, 4500 pound vehicle. One gets good MPG with a smaller, lighter, small I4 powered vehicle. If you want high mileage, get a Prius or HCH.
I think that Toyota realized this pretty early on, and that's why they went with power, rather than MPG.
I agree that article in the NYT was hardly a review at all. Unless it was in 110 degree heat with the A/C at 60 degrees against a 40 MPH headwind, there is no way his mileage should have been that low. I’m averaging between 26 and 27 MPG on every tank on 90% freeway driving, and I now have over 5,100 miles on my 400h. The weather here has been hot (90-105) over the last month and with my A/C at 77, I’m still getting 26. The 400h has performed exactly as advertised in my opinion. “Power of a V8 and the mileage of a compact sedan”, that is what I was told, and that is what I, and hopefully a lot more of you out there, are getting. I had the chance to drive a brand new RX330 last month when I was getting my 5k service, and although it is a wonderful choice for many, both my wife and I thought it definitely was not as nice as our 400h. I would definitely buy my 400h again.
Folks, just because some of you have issues with the FACT that hybrid SUVs do not provide the fuel mileage that you may have expected, it is not the fault of the New York Times or the three journalists writing about the problem. Please don't shoot the messenger.
My RX400h is due in this week. The air conditioning WILL be on almost all of the time during the summer - we just had the hottest July on record with 24 days (out of 39 straight) over 100 degrees.
But I know what my Honda Pilot did in fuel use and anything better than that is a real plus to me. It may take a few years to get my money back in gas savings, but I don't think gas prices are going down (yesterday futures hit an all-time high) and I'm in this for the long term and for the power and comfort, too.
What baffles me is that the mileage achieved by the the RH in magazines/newspapers/web logs/websites does not at all resemble the MPG of forum members. The fact that so many forum members can reach EPA figures is purely miraculous, especially when independent test drivers cant even come close to EPA figures.
I will when the messenger wrote the message! I would be happy to post a screen shot of my mileage when I get home from work tonight. It will show that the "messenger" from the NYT should try researching his findings better before publishing his "findings".
This article talks about what the RX400h was designed for as well as future hybrids possibly having a switch on the dash board that would give the choice between gas mileage and performance.
My gas consuming car sometimes has surprisingly good mileage. I repeat sometimes!!!
So now forum members are going to take digital shots to prove their mileage. BIG DEAL!!! Please spare us the ridiculous exercise of flaunting the best mileage you received so far on a tank full of gas! That figure is irrelevant since in the real world it is the gas mileage since purchasing a car that should be relevent.
Here are a few snippets of a NYT article that appeared in the July 31, 2005 edition of the publication. For a full version, go to their web site.
2006 Lexus RX 400h: The Hybrid Emperor's New Clothes
One question lingers after driving the 2006 Lexus RX 400h: How did it come to this, that Toyota is now selling a hybrid gas-electric vehicle with no tangible fuel economy benefits? ... In my test-driving, the Lexus hybrid, which is based on the gasoline-only RX 330, did not achieve better mileage than the 2005 RX 330 that I drove for comparison. ... My hybrid tester's window sticker did boast a federal mileage rating of 31 miles per gallon in the city and 27 on the highway, compared with just 18 and 24 for the RX without the hybrid drivetrain. But the government's testing procedure has a habit - one that seems to be exaggerated with hybrids - of rendering fuel economy numbers as relevant to the real world as national energy policies have been to actually reducing dependence on foreign oil. .... The hybrid version of the Lexus sport utility wagon follows in the tracks of the 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid by offering more horsepower than the conventional version of the same vehicle.... . . . The RX 400h's failure to deliver, in my experience, even a nominal improvement in gas mileage still seems like a sin of omission. It has been fundamental to the understanding and acceptance of hybrids that they offer better fuel economy than vehicles powered by conventional gasoline engines. ... Environmental advocates do not proclaim the righteousness of all things Toyota based on the 958,888 light trucks and S.U.V.'s that it sold in the United States last year, fully 47 percent of its total sales. By comparison, only 53,991 Priuses were sold in 2004 ... I drove the 200 miles from Chicago to Grand Rapids, Mich..... By the time I returned to Chicago, I had put 531 miles on the odometer and calculated my fuel economy at 20.9 m.p.g. .... (I) later tested another RX 400h for a week. I drove this one 556 miles and did a bit better, averaging 23.0 m.p.g. ...... I'll be charitable and call the gas mileage comparison between the hybrids and the standard RX a draw, though there is a clear loser - anyone who buys an RX 400h on the assumption that it will use appreciably less fuel in a range of driving situations. ....... That it doesn't forces one to consider the RX 400h on its other merits, of which there are precious few.
Dewey, You make a great point but the NYT didn't have a problem with showing what they got on a relatively short amount of time, and you had no problem with that. For your information, I'm not going to post "the best mileage" , I'm going to post what I have on my current tank of gas which is very typical for what I have gotten over the life of the vehicle. If you know a way of showing what my car has gotten over it's 5,600+ miles I will be happy to do it, you would be surprised with the results. FYI, for someone that doesn't even own a Lexus, you certainly spend a lot of time trying to bash them.
FYI, for someone that doesn't even own a Lexus, you certainly spend a lot of time trying to bash them.
There seems to be a very thin line between wanting valid facts(mpg since ownership) and bashing poor Lexus. Bashing Lexus was not my intention and I apologize if I offended any Lexus fans out there.
The most objective info would be from long term tests of the RH among auto mags and websites. Selectively picking one mpg gas tank reading is as valid as an investment manager only picking his good years of investment returns(1 good year and 10 lousy years)
Thanks, but ever since your “RX400h is a BLOATED TURKEY” comment, it’s been hard to see that you were trying to be objective. I’m all for long term study, and I would be happy to start running a log of every tank. But it seems the Edmunds is already doing that with pretty positive results. It just seems that anyone can post “my MPG was ---”, but without some type of documentation I would be suspicious.
I'm not being thin skinned, I just happen to be an owner, so I have a vested interest in the truth being told here. I've made my point and I'm glad we are both in agreement that final judgment should be made on a long-term study. Not on one road trip by the New York Times reporter with a very flawed review. I will post my mileage later and will not reset my computer and we will see what it reads over time. I think it will be very close to what Edmunds will report as their long term study continues.
Comments
Thanks!
It's also a bit puzzling as to why owners seem to expect the hybrid to meet the EPA MPG ratings. Our Prius averages 42MPG, mostly city, and while that is no where near the EPA numbers I remain very pleased it.
I have come to suspect that the rX's mPG ratings has to do with the need to run the ICE for reasons other than just drive torque and/or battery charging. I have convinced myself that the ICE is often fired up in order to keep the catalytic convertor up to operational temperature. I'm also not so sure that it doesn't get fired up in order to keep the engine coolant hot enough for proper operation of the climate control's reheat/remix cycle.
If the ICE needs to run for the clear majority of the time in any case, that would obviously explain why highway fuel economy will overshadow city.
I think I read that the 04 Prius, the first MY with electric A/C compressor, has a c-best option wherein the reheat/remix cycle can be disabled such that hot coolant flow is not a requirement. If the RX had that feature the city MPG would likely improve substantially. That is provided the catalytic convertor doesn't require ICE heating just as often.
Normally I would be in the market for a 2006 RX, either the 330 (350?) or the 400, about now. But I am currently caught up in designing and implementing several modifications to my 2001 AWD series. Initial effort is to make the climate control more capable (a LOT moreso) of defogging the windshield and then more easily maintaining it in a defogged state.
Also at the moment getting a quote to convert the PTO in my 2001 to eliminate the mechanical coupling to the front axle and thereby have viscous clutch (only) coupling to the front.
Very nervous about having to endure another winter with the windshield spontaneously fogging over in addition to the inherent hazards of FWD operation on snow or ice covered surfaces.
You will be impressed with the power of the 400h. It will really get up and go!!
My brother has had his 400h for 4 weeks. He really likes it, especially the fuel mileage which is typically in the mid 20s. His previous vehicle was a GM SUV.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/31/automobiles/31AUTO.html?
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/31/automobiles/31TOYOTA.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/31/automobiles/31EPA.html
You may have to register (it's free) to read them. The jist of the articles, that include much test driving, is that the fuel efficiency of the Lexus RH 440h and Toyota Highlander SUV hybrids was very dissappointing. There was barely any mileage difference between them and their much less expensive gasoline-powered relatives.
Remember the long delay from the initial delivery date to when the vehicle was finally available for sale to the public?
That was most likely done when the initial design wouldn't meet the EPA/CARB emissions requirements. Probably all because the catalytic converter had to be kept ALIVE.
Couldn't use atkinson cycle, not enough FIRE in the exhaust manifold.
Couldn't scale the Prius catalytic converter design approach up to the level required to support a ~3L V6 engine so the engine has to run often enough to keep the converter FIRED up.
The result...
Better highway mileage than city. ICE has to run full time on highway regardless.
Catch 22 in spades.
I cancelled my preorder, real one, after the 3rd delivery delay, just recently discovered that on was still listed twice, both at the same dealer.
I was told that unless I wanted something "special" I could likely have an RX400h with a week.
There does seem to be more variability in reported highway numbers than I would expect. In our RX400H, the freeway mileage seems to be much more constant than the "city" mileage - which is understandable because cruising at high speed reduces the effect of some of the variables such as how often the AC is on. It makes me wonder whether there is something that varies in the set up of the RX400H that does this or whether it can all be explained by variability in the driver, fuel, tire pressure and driving conditions.
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2006/lexus/rx400h/100521765/roadtestarticle.html?articleId=1062- 71
Emissions???? With new upcoming emissions regulations even that is becoming a feeble excuse for buying a rx400h.
If it's really true that highway fuel economy is 28 MPG, or even in that range, that in itself will be a significant advantage. My 2001 AWD RX300's best is ~22 MPG highway.
In summation, I do not believe these NY Times articles.
While I have no where near the mileage under my belt as others have posted, I have done a bit of studying on the reporting system Lexus has in the vehicle, and have monitored my own driving habits.
Bottom line for me: best mileage is when I am driving in and around town, in the range of 20-40 MPH.
I live on a large hill; for the first 10-15 minutes of driving, the screen that displays MPG in the 5 minute bar graphs, shows that I am generating lots of power, battery typically goes green, and I average 30-40 MPG. I notice little difference between setting transmission on B, or just using the brakes. (7 miles)
Next is fairly level driving thru town, and I average 20-30 MPG for next 10-20 minutes (another 7 miles).
Today, I went over hill and dale, for another 15 miles, and averaged 30-40 MPG.
Going up my hill on the return, MPG drops to 10-20 for the trip back home.
Overall for 40 miles today - 30, and my average MPG for this tank jumped from 21 to 23.5.
Of course, your mileage will vary; I'm going to try the EPA test to see what I get under those conditions, but the previous info here, is probably representative.
Yesterday, did some freeway driving, and the MPG was 22-28 for 30 miles or so; again some hills.
Bottom line:
- on the flats with continuous driving at highway speeds, it is just another car
- over hill and dale, in city stop and go driving with some coasting and moderate speeds of 20-40 MPH, expect to see some benefits of the hybrid technology
For the hybrid critics: there are many, many types of cars to choose from; there is NO perfect car. As the articles pointed out, Lexus/Toyota targeted a particular market, and provided a fine vehicle, setting a new benchmark in performance.
No amount of analysis will make the numbers turn out to be attractive or cost effective. The choice of the 400h is one of wanting to support the hybrid development efforts, and be one of the first to exploit the benefits and limitations of the technology.
My decision was not a financial decision. Rather, I believe Lexus is going to make sure this car is NOT a lemon.
Mike
The vehicle is otherwise great. The luxury features, the extra power is nice, but that was not OUR primary motivation for the purchase. We wanted to use less gas - and we simply are not.
Here's hoping Lexus comes out with some type of software adjustment sometime in the future that will improve the MPG.
Nothing less.
I get 25-27 on every tankful. Period.
No RX330 could even come close to matching that with where I drive and the freeway speeds I drive at.
I'm obviously not the only one.
The author is a moron.
Anyone doing their job would've contacted owners for their experiences. And Lexus corporate for a rebuttal or some comments.
Instead, an article with no scientific data, one anecdotal test, and an obvious agenda.
What a friggin' joke.
Psychology 101 teaches that when someone spends a lot of money on something, they tend to rationalize and overestimate the merits of their purchases . Independent and objective test drives by non-owners are most objective, whether its done by the NY Times or any other publication(except maybe a Toyota marketing publication)!
And I rather doubt that really means you're jealous of their purchase.
Okay, but RX400h owners are giving actual MPG figures for their vehicles, which has nothing to do with Psychology 101. These owner's on average are showing pretty good MPG numbers.
Furthermore, how do you calculate the intrinsic value of owning a hybrid? People regularly spend $10K premiums for European cars that are frankly not as reliable or economical or even as plush as luxury Japanese cars. Why? Because owning a European car says something they like about who they are as people. Same thing with many buyers of big American trucks.
I think that Toyota realized this pretty early on, and that's why they went with power, rather than MPG.
The NY Times ability to publish articles that are factually correct has become difficult for them in the last few years. This is but another example.
But I know what my Honda Pilot did in fuel use and anything better than that is a real plus to me. It may take a few years to get my money back in gas savings, but I don't think gas prices are going down (yesterday futures hit an all-time high) and I'm in this for the long term and for the power and comfort, too.
Miraculous is the word!
By the end of this decade, Toyota plans for 25 percent of U.S. sales to be hybrid vehicles."
http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/03/Autos/toyota_hybrid_push/index.htm
This article talks about what the RX400h was designed for as well as future hybrids possibly having a switch on the dash board that would give the choice between gas mileage and performance.
So now forum members are going to take digital shots to prove their mileage. BIG DEAL!!!
Please spare us the ridiculous exercise of flaunting the best mileage you received so far on a tank full of gas! That figure is irrelevant since in the real world it is the gas mileage since purchasing a car that should be relevent.
in the July 31, 2005 edition of the publication.
For a full version, go to their web site.
2006 Lexus RX 400h: The Hybrid Emperor's New Clothes
One question lingers after driving the 2006 Lexus RX 400h:
How did it come to this, that Toyota is now selling a hybrid
gas-electric vehicle with no tangible fuel economy benefits?
...
In my test-driving, the Lexus hybrid, which is based on the
gasoline-only RX 330, did not achieve better mileage than the 2005 RX 330 that I
drove for comparison.
...
My hybrid tester's window sticker did boast a federal mileage rating of
31 miles per gallon in the city and 27 on the highway, compared with
just 18 and 24 for the RX without the hybrid drivetrain. But the
government's testing procedure has a habit - one that seems to be exaggerated
with hybrids - of rendering fuel economy numbers as relevant to the real
world as national energy policies have been to actually reducing
dependence on foreign oil.
....
The hybrid version of the Lexus sport utility wagon follows in the
tracks of the 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid by offering more horsepower than the
conventional version of the same vehicle....
. . .
The RX 400h's
failure to deliver, in my experience, even a nominal improvement in gas
mileage still seems like a sin of omission. It has been fundamental to
the understanding and acceptance of hybrids that they offer better fuel
economy than vehicles powered by conventional gasoline engines.
...
Environmental advocates
do not proclaim the righteousness of all things Toyota based on the
958,888 light trucks and S.U.V.'s that it sold in the United States last
year, fully 47 percent of its total sales. By comparison, only 53,991
Priuses were sold in 2004
...
I drove the 200 miles from Chicago to Grand Rapids, Mich..... By the time I returned to
Chicago, I had put 531 miles on the odometer and calculated my fuel
economy at 20.9 m.p.g.
....
(I) later tested another RX 400h for
a week. I drove this one 556 miles and did a bit better, averaging 23.0
m.p.g.
......
I'll be charitable and call the gas mileage comparison between the
hybrids and the standard RX a draw, though there is a clear loser - anyone
who buys an RX 400h on the assumption that it will use appreciably less
fuel in a range of driving situations.
.......
That it doesn't forces one to consider the RX 400h on its other merits,
of which there are precious few.
You make a great point but the NYT didn't have a problem with showing what they got on a relatively short amount of time, and you had no problem with that. For your information, I'm not going to post "the best mileage" , I'm going to post what I have on my current tank of gas which is very typical for what I have gotten over the life of the vehicle. If you know a way of showing what my car has gotten over it's 5,600+ miles I will be happy to do it, you would be surprised with the results. FYI, for someone that doesn't even own a Lexus, you certainly spend a lot of time trying to bash them.
There seems to be a very thin line between wanting valid facts(mpg since ownership) and bashing poor Lexus. Bashing Lexus was not my intention and I apologize if I offended any Lexus fans out there.
The most objective info would be from long term tests of the RH among auto mags and websites. Selectively picking one mpg gas tank reading is as valid as an investment manager only picking his good years of investment returns(1 good year and 10 lousy years)
The fact of the matter is you agree 100% with me about the objectivity of long term tests over short term tests. That was my point!