Lexus RX 400h and 450h

jamessahal

Petrol (gasoline): 93.9 pence per litre +
Diesel: 96.9 pence per litre +
This is in the north of England and it is known i think for some of the cheaper prices in parts...

PF_Flyer

Since we don't get many overseas price reports, you might want to post the UK prices over in the Report Your Local Gas Prices Here discussion!

cyclone4

Great Britain's climate is a hell of a lot warmer in the winter time than say Boston or even New York. This is inspite of the fact that London is MUCH further north than Boston. This is due to the fact that there is a relatively warm ocean to the west plus the Gulf Stream affecting western Europe. The air masses for Boston and New York in the winter often move in from frigid Canada.

phoebeisis

$6.30 A GALLON-a bit more than 2X what we pay.Yes,those sort of prices would absolutely put paid to 5000 lb pickups and SUV's.Currently the almost tripling of the price of gasoline(-I paid 89 cents in 1998) has finally started to kill the sales of Suburbans and Expeditions( 2500 KG SUV's-5500 lbs-which get 10 mpg in city driving).It was only the last 40 cents of the runup that finally "killed" them.GM has managed to sell them-but only at HUGE DISCOUNTS-probably under GM's actual cost.
GB is fairly far north,but not bitterly cold because of warm ocean currents(between 50 and 60 degrees north).The lower 48 states only extend up to about 48 degrees north. I'm exactly 30 degrees north-New Orleans-that explains our barely winter-winter(one or 2 days below 32 degrees).
Thanks for the" Petrol "numbers.Charlie

hendjaz

We may be taking delivery soon of a new 400h and then taking off immediately for a family vacation that might quickly add 1500-2000 miles to the RX. For the most part we would not be near any Lexus dealers during the trip although a greater probability of being near some toyota dealers. Are there any reports that anyone is aware of significant or debilitating problems arising in the 400h in the first 2000 miles or so? I read of someone's A/C going out but any others to be aware of that could affect the drivability of the vehicle? Thank you.

katzjamr

My 400h has been the most trouble free vehicle i have ever had. Remember that many toyota dealerships can work on a 400h as they are trained for the Highlander Hybrid which shares the same chasis. This gives u a much larger network of potential dealers for emergency service than just relying on Lexus dealers. Also Lexus roadside assitance includes up to three days Hotel stay with daily food allowance if your car cannot be repaired, I think a loaner car can be arranged for also, that exact detail escapes me. More importantly when you are taking a brand new vehicle on the road remember to vary your speed, dont just set the cruise control and drive at one speed. This allows the engine and hybrid components to break in at all speed ranges.

katzjamr

Have a reliable tire gauge with you when you pick up your 400h. For some reason many vehicles have been shipped with tires set at 40 psi, rather than the 30 or 32 that is normal depending on the tires on the suv. The high psi will affect ride, steering and tire wear and many dealers are not catching this during what passes for dealer prep. Also the Nav system will be helpful on your trip so see if they can spend some time getting you familiar with setting it, there is alot to learn just with that item alone. Make sure someone tells you where the key is for the lock nut on your aluminum wheels in case you have a flat.

jamessahal

english police forces have now bought a lexus rx400h! more forces are buying after the trial!!

motownusa

James, I was checking your profile. You are only 14 ? Wow!! You seem to know a lot about cars. I was in the UK from May 21 through 29th and all the police cruisers I saw were BMWs. I am not sure if a heavy SUV will make a good Patrol car..

dewey

My 400h has been the most trouble free vehicle i have ever had.

Problem free for the first few months of ownership! Miraculous, indeed for a Model T Ford, but a 21st century vehicle??

katzjamr

What i meant to say is that he shouldnt worry. This person is picking up a vehicle from out of state and then taking a trip. I have had american cars that were not trouble free in the first few months of ownership, you can go to any forum on here and see testimony to that. To pick one, there is a Ford Exploder thread here where a person posts that their new car broke down before they made it out of the dealers parking lot. Mostly that is the luck of the draw. Some of this technology is new, the vehicles are loaded with features, something is bound to not be perfect. If this forum is meant to help people i dont see where your sarcasm is of any benefit.

jamessahal

Yep! 14, but i spend my days readin all tha magazines that i got subscriptions with and on the internet. Gonna chage my profile too soon. Lexus RX400h, only read this today actually on a tv channel website that has a car section. Only one force does so yet and its on trial, other forces may follow and apprentyl they ise something like 390,000 litres of petrol a year and so are thinking about the enviromental impact of burning all this fuel. www.channel4.com/4car, go to news scroll down, its on there

dewey

If this forum is meant to help people i dont see where your sarcasm is of any benefit.

Did not mean to offend you. I own cars that are decades-old (mainly family heirlooms) and just the thought of a problem-ridden car during the first months of ownerships imo seems incomprehensible. Then again I do know some VW/Audi owners.

PF_Flyer

It's so easy for things to be taken differently than you intended when you posted them. Let's not let this deteriorate into a personal dispute please. Thanks!

hendjaz

Thanks to katzjamr for your always helpful and informative responses to my inquiries. As they say in the UK, always spot on. Dewey is right too that one can always count on something going wrong, but hopefully in my case it won't happen in the first 2K miles and it won't be debilitating or terribly unconformtable (i.e A/C going out) in any way. A couple minor defects I can handle.

I was wondering whether any trend of issues had arisen that I might get the dealership focused before taking delivery so as to lessen the chances of a problem arising while driving through the outback of the US western states. Due to these fine threads I have already raised the issue of the HID headlights being secured as best as possible. Don't want those ripped off when hundreds of miles from the nearest Lexus dealership. Any other reasonably possible problems of significance that might be unique to the RX or 400h that might jump out if Murphy's Law goes into effect?

gagrice

I was wondering whether any trend of issues had arisen that I might get the dealership focused before taking delivery

Test drive the car. Several RH owners have had alignment problems. Some said it was computer related some said wheel alignment. They would pull one way or the other. Should be able to tell in a short test drive.

wwest

Not much market for ripped off HIDs.........

gagrice

Sell them back to other RX owners on the black market. The HID you buy may be your own.....

molokai

There are many instances of stolen HIDs. Mainly the Acuras are stolen as some of them fit right into the Hondas.

wwest

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Subject
RX400h

Discussion Thread
Response (LCS Reps) 08/23/2005 07:03 AM
Dear Mr. West,

Thank you for contacting the Lexus Customer Satisfaction Department. Lexus appreciates the time you have taken to share your thoughts. The 2006 RX 400h does not offer the c-best option to allow &#147;economy&#148; A/C mode.

I apologize, but Lexus does not have any information regarding your other two questions. Please be assured that your comments have been documents for our records.

If you have any further concerns, you can also reach the Lexus Customer Satisfaction Department at 1-800-255-3987, Monday through Friday, 5:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m., Pacific Time.

Sincerely,
Jane Doe
Customer Satisfaction Representative
Response (LCS Reps) 08/15/2005 08:07 AM
Dear Mr. West,

Thank you for contacting the Lexus Customer Satisfaction Department. Lexus appreciates the time you have taken to share your thoughts. The 2006 RX 400h does not offer the c-best option to allow &#147;economy&#148; A/C mode.

I apologize, but Lexus does not have any information regarding your other two questions. Please be assured that your comments have been documents for our records.

If you have any further concerns, you can also reach the Lexus Customer Satisfaction Department at 1-800-255-3987, Monday through Friday, 5:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m., Pacific Time.

Sincerely,
Jane Doe
Customer Satisfaction Representative
Response (LCS Reps) 07/28/2005 02:25 PM
Dear Mr. West:

Thank you for contacting the Lexus Customer Satisfaction Department regarding the AWD RX 330 and the RX 400H vehicles. Lexus appreciates the time you have taken to communicate with us.

I will research your questions and follow-up with you as soon as I have information regarding the air-conditioner in the RX 400H.

If you have any further concerns, you can also reach the Lexus Customer Satisfaction Department at 1-800-255-3987, Monday through Friday, 5:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m., Pacific Time.

Sincerely,
Jane Doe
Customer Satisfaction Representative
Customer (WWest) 07/25/2005 02:07 PM
Trying to decide between a new purchase, 2006 AWD RX330(350??) or RX400h.

In watching the various comments in internet forums it appears that the RX400h is getting better highway MPG than city. 28+ highway vs lower than 24 city.

Does the Rx400h have the c-best option to allow "economy" A/C mode as does the 04 and later Prius?

In "normal" A/C mode the cooled airflow is remixed with heated airflow reducing the A/C efficiency dramatically and at the same time requiring heated airflow from the engine coolant.

How often must the gasoline engine be run in the summer months to keep the coolant hot enough for "normal" A/C operation?

How often must the gasoline engine run in order to keep the catalytic converter up to optimum operating temperature?

anthonyp

Any body having any problems.? We saw a couple of H `s in the service bay last week while Lexus was replacing battery and breaks with their regular great service people, on our 430....Sure seems like a great car.....Up here in N.C. mountains the gas has almost run out...Many stations closed, but a few have gas....I was thinking how nice it would be to have a car that the engine stopped while I waited for the light to change.....Tony

katzjamr

2400 miles on my 400h and zero problems, im happy. You are very correct when im in traffic im much calmer in the hybrid. At this point there is a better supply at many dealers and you should be able to get a discount of msrp unlike those of us in the northwest. Go for it.

mirex

...and from what I am hearing the 400h will also shut off while you are waiting in the gas lines in your area.

wwest

I noticed that this is one of the aspects of the Highlander Hydrid that is being advertised and I therefore assume the RX440h would have the same sensor. Anyone know what it is being used for?

hendjaz

Has anyone read when the RX 400 will come with a satellite radio option built into it so that the interface is part of the audio system and nav screen? I read some posts that were guessing that it was coming at some point but have not read anything "official" or with a solid time estimate.

This option is available with other Lexus vehicles so not sure why it is not already integrated into the RX model. I would expect this to be a factory or dealer option and not have to resort to an aftermarket fix.

kenlex41

I read that too a while back. My understanding it was for the AC. It is suppose to make the it more efficient, but I havn't read anything in the owners manual about it.

wwest

Why not add a compressed natural gas tank and a smallish genset, say the Honda EU2000, to continuously charge the hybrid batteries?

Natural gas can compressed and pumped in at home and with no road taxes.

katzjamr

I think your post should be posted in every Lexus dealership right under the we love
our customers (money) mission statement. I also drive my 400h much the way you describe, and i enjoy your posts in our other forum. As i drive i try to maximize mpg and dont worry about the battery, I figure that will take care of itself. however it occurs to me as i read your post that you re saying a fuller battery will keep the ICE from running as much and increase mpg. I am able to get 26 to 28 in mixed driving with regular gas with my current driving style. (no AC, its seattle) Also i have been experimenting with using the heated seats on cooler mornings insted of cranking up the heat so the ICE doesnt run as much during warmup.

mirex

"Our hybrid SUVs allow customers to have their SUVs and be responsible at the same time, and we've seen (demand) really accelerate since Katrina," Press, president of Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A., said, adding that the waiting list was growing for its hybrid SUVs.

http://money.cnn.com/2005/09/23/Autos/bc.autos.summit.toyota.hybrids.reut/index.htm

eschw999

I am thinking about the lexus rx400h. I just drove one today, and really liked it. I was wondering if anyone has problems with the armrest connected to the driver's seat - i thought it was kind of narrow. Has anyone gotten an aftermarkedt armrest, or modified the current one in any way???
thanks, evan

andyux2

We just got back from our free 5000 mile maintenance check and were very pleased with the service. We asked questions about our subsequent oil changes and maintenance checks. Our dealer told us $70 for the oil change and probably $800 for our next maintenance check. We left wondering if there are any reasons we couldn't take our 400h to our trusted local mechanic for the oil change. We go to him for our other non-Lexus vehicles. Anyone have any answers for this? We still love our hybrid and with the weather getting cooler we're still averaging 29 - 30 MPG on 50/50 city/highway driving. We are getting EPA numbers - fewer on the highway and more in the city. We have never used premium grade and our oil is Castrol 5W30. Whatta great vehicle!

falconone

I too found the narrow armrest annoying. I used to have a 99 RX and it appears they still have not changed that foolish design. Without a passenger it's fine as you can use both.

mkkid

Oil change and maintenance numbers sound high, but I'm checking with my dealer next week. Would think that Toyota Hybrid dealer (new SUV) would beat those charges.

katzjamr

$70 is the going rate in seattle for an oil and filter change using Castrol synthetic blend, at the Lexus dealer, and would include a tire rotation and a traction battery load check. I have no idea what is included in your $800 'maintenance' service. As much as you trust your local service guy i would make sure you dont do anyting to void the vehicle warranty. We are basically trusting that the HSD and the other Toyota parts are going to last, and the toyota hybrid, and bumper to bumper warranties could come in handy. Service at a dealership documents what was done in their national computer system. Many Lexus owners go to Toyota dealerships for service as their rates may be cheaper. They have mechanics that are hybrid trained to work on the Highlander and will be familiar with the 400h system. Our local Toyota dealerships frequently have oil change specials. Out of warranty period i would be less married to a dealership as there are much better repair values to be found at a service center you trust.

wwest

The maximum output from the hybrid battery is stated (by Lexus) as being 45KW. The front A/C motor is capable of 167HP, 123KW, and the rear 68HP, 50KW.

The total, net, for the ICE & electrics is stated as only 268HP.

Why would they put a 167HP(123KW) AC motor in the RX400h if the most it can ever produce is ~60HP(45KW)?

Is there a reasonable/logical explanation?

rx400hfan

It is not really strange if you look at the planetary gear cvt as the power split device that it is. You will see that for the ICE to get any power to the road a percentage of power will be delivered to MG1 in generating electricity. This generated electricity can be directed directly to MG2 in addition to the 45KW from the battery to produce maximum power.

wwest

But that still doesn't explain why MG1 is rated so high, far above anything that can ever be produced.

rx400hfan

In all of the technical presentations of the HSD I have seen, MG1 is the Motor/Generator connected to the sun gear of the PSD and functions as a generator most of the time that the ICE is producing power. MG2 is the larger Motor/Generator connected to the ring gear of the PSD and through reductions gears to the front axle. Therefore MG2 in this example is the motor for which we are given the HP rating. Since the ICE is attached to the planetary gear carrier, anytime it is producing power a fixed percentage of torque will be provided to MG1 (Primarily a generator when the ICE is running) with the remaining percentage of torque applied to the front axle in parallel with MG2. I am not familiar with the gear ratios of the PSD used in the Lexus but the ratio was 28% to MG1 vs. 72% to MG2/Drivetrain on the Prius. Here is where it get rather complicated. Power is not a function of only torque but of torque & RPM so when we stomp the accelorator at low speed the engine power & rpm rise dramatically yet our road speed has not yet risen nearly as much. Therefore even though the axle is receiving 72% of the torque from the ICE it is receiving a much lower percentage of the power output of the engine. The only way the engine rpm & power can rise is for MG1 to spin up to a very high rpm and absorb all the remaing output power of the ICE by acting as a generator. So at low speed/high throttle a large portion of the power output of the ICE is in the form of electrical power from MG1, all this power is added to the power coming from the battary and fed into the large MG2 Traction motor.

wwest

Lexus states that the TOTAL, net HP is 268.....

That's basically 208 from the ICE and 60 (45KW) from the "hybrid" aspect.

Is it possible that Lexus initially planned to have a ~140KW hybrid battery set and then things went awry for some reason before it entered production?

That would also account for the "400" in RX400h.

208HP ICE, 192HP (140KW) electrics.

And remember, keep in mind, the city/hwy MPG being reported by owners is completely out of whack, opposite, with the EPA estimates and what is being reported for the Prius.

Would a more robust battery pack had produced a more appropreate city MPG?

rx400hfan

No they didn't plan anything other than what it is. The 400 in RX400h stands for power equal to a 4.0 liter engine just like RX330 = 3.3 liter engine. You missed the whole point of the explanation above in that at low road speeds you need 192HP electrics to be able to use the 208HP of the ICE since most of the power takes the path of electric from MG1 to MG2 otherwise at low speed you would have to limit the power output of the ICE to a small fraction of what it has. This would be the equivalent of eliminating any lower gears on a regular vehicle.

wwest

When I am WOT and the ICE is producing 208HP are you saying half of that drives the generator and then from the generator that half drives MG2...

CVT....

If I jack up the rear end of a RWD vehicle with just a simple open diff'l, put it gear with the engine running and hold one wheel stationary with just my little pinky...

If you think of the opposite wheel, now spinning rapidly, as MG1, that's the way I thought the CVT in the Prius, RXh and HH worked. Virtually no energy needed at MG1 to prevent the ICE from conveying energy to the roadbed via the opposite end of the diff'l if you want to remain stopped.

So how do I overcome the "traction" force of my pinky?? I stop allowing MG1 to "freewheel", in other words I supply it with enough energy to turn it AGAINST the motive force of the engine. Remember that MG1 has a serious mechanical advantage over the ICE via the planetary gearset, so it doesn't take much energy, relatively.

I assume the above moves the vehicle in reverse and if I apply AC power to MG1 to AID in supplying motive force the vehicle goes forward.

But yes, assuming I am not requiring WOT performance, the ICE torque can be used to to recharge the batteries.

wwest

Sorry.........

Are you confusing "low speed" with constant speed?

At a constant speed, even uphill or towing, very little of the ICE capability is required for forward motion, So clearly, it can then be used to recharge the batteries.

But if I am accelerating rapidly....

rx400hfan

The more accurate analogy is for your RWD car to have one side jacked up on a stand with castors and have it in gear and have someone step on the throttle. The car is not going to move but the jacked up wheel will spin madly. The only way to get the wheel still on the ground to move the car is for something to hold the spinning wheel back. I do know with absolute certainty that if you grab that wheel to slow it down to cause the other one to move the car, that it will take you apart before you can hold it back enough to get the car moving.

You are correct that MG1 will be freewheeling when the ICE is running and the Lexus is stationary, but when you push the accelerator MG1 does not hold back by taking power from the battery it holds back by being a generator and providing the generated power to MG2. Due to the laws of physics while the vehicle is still stationary 100% of the power output of the engine (less slight gear losses) will be through MG1 acting as a generator. This power is directed into MG2 in addition to the battery power. As the vehicle speed increases more and more of the ICE power goes directly to the wheels via the ring gear of the PSD. Since the ring gear of the PSD and MG2 are tied directly together and then to the drive axle their speed is directly tied to vehicle speed. At the point where ICE rpm = MG2 RPM 28% of the power from the ICE will be generating electric through MG1 and 72% will be applied to the drive train.

justg0

So I am looking to buy a SUV and have narrowed my choices to BMW X5 4.4i and Lexus RX 400h. Both these are quite similarly priced (X5 a little higher).

The factors that are important to me are (in no particular order): luxury, performance, reliability and depreciation. Based on my test drive and research that I have done, here's what I have concluded (very simply put):

1. Luxury: Both are good
2. Performance: X5 4.4i has an edge
3. Reliability: Rx 400h wins (based on Lexus's reputation)
4. Depreciation: Not sure here about RX 400h?

Lexus RX 330 retains it value quite well, so one can say that so should 400h. But my concern is that Lexus is overpricing 400h because of very limited supply and more demand (simple economics). I will also have to pay MSRP (I am in the Seattle area), though if I wait till next year I may be able to get some tax credit. I am not trying to do the fuel math and I don't care much about that (and you typically lose that anyway), but I believe that RX 400h should be priced higher than a similarly equipped RX 300 just because it has more power (similar to why V8 is priced more than V6). But consider the situation 5 years from now when there is no shortage of hybrid vehicles and there are lot more hybrid models from Lexus & other manufactures. Will the value of 2005 Lexus 400h drop considerably? Why does Edmunds (based on their TMV) think the Lexus will depreciate approx $10,000 in the first year (considerably higher than other SUVs like X5, RX 330)?

Did anyone conduct such analysis before deciding to purchase (or not) Rx400h and what did you conclude?

katzjamr

Its hard to understand where they get that 10K figure im sure its a guess. Dealers are selling used 400h (admittedly low miles) for about 3K below msrp. I think there will be high demand for the hybrids on the west coast for a long time. I have a 400h with 4300 miles and its been great. I agree it is alot of money for a car, i can justify it for business use. My salesman asked me to consider leasing, as it offers tax advantages, and in three years when you turn yours in it should coincide with the next model RX hybrid. I did purchase mine as i usually keep them for 5 or 6 years. Yes you will have a tax credit next year that is over 2K. The bmw is a great car and better offroad, as the 400h is not reccommended for this type of use. At the same time the Hybrid Synergy Drive in the toyotas has been very reliable as reported by owners online and consumer reports finding it much more reliable than average. To get the best mileage you will have to adopt a hybrid driving style but its makes driving interesting, and you wont feel stressed in traffic jams. The smooth linear power across the whole power band is incredible in the 400h and it is a great combination of safety, options, comfort speed and as you mentioned reliability. Gas is only going to go up and the 400h affords you a no compromises way to deal with that. The real unanswered question for me is the cost of repairs to the HSD if you keep one that is out of warranty. There is no doubt that the parts and labor are going to be expensive. Yes that is 7 years or 100K down the road but it will probably cause me to trade my 400h in earlier, than the longer period i would normally own the car. sorry for the stream of consciousness post but those are my thots.

falconone

Whatever you do, DON'T buy the X5. My friend had one on lease and it has lots of problems. Even CR shows poor reliability. Test drive the RX330 NON hybrid fully loaded and see if you like that. It's less than the X5 and MUCH more reliable.

wwest

both have truly functional, rear torque biased, AWD systems and therefore will be inherently safer in wintertime adverse roadbed conditions and snowchains can be readily used on the rear wheels only, or both back and front.

A case in point. The new Lexus AWD GS300 uses the VSC's yaw sensor signal to automatically route engine torque away from the front driveline when the front tire's traction coefficient is needed primarily to prevent loss of directional control.

Now if the RX series could just be fitted with the GS300's wet clutch so the engine torque, leading or lagging, could be shifted away from the front in the same circumstances....

The RX series, including the h, are based on a FWD platform and are therefore front torque biased, a circumsatnce that is potentially highly hazardous on a slippery roadbed. Additionally, due to tight suspension clearance at the rear snowchains can ONLY be used at the front resulting in an extreme exacerbation of the wintertime dangers.

Also, if it happens that you need to defog the windshield of a BMW you will get INSTANT and PROPER response from the climate control system when you activate the defog/demist/defrost mode. HOT airflow to the interior surface of the windshield and lots of it, even on the hottest of summer days.

Whereas with any Toyota or Lexus automatic climate control system you will not only NOT get the proper response in this circumstance these systems will be much more likely to rapidly increase the windshield fogging situation, leaving it up to you to quickly modify the operational charactoristics in order to clear the windshield.

The newer, 2004+, RX series is even worse. Just as the A/C is disabled as a result of the OAT declining below ~35F, releasing all of the previously condensed moisture on the evaporator vanes to the process of evaporation into the system airstream, the system also automatically switches to footwell/windshield air outflow mode. Up until this moment the interior windshield surface has recieved no warming airflow and now its CHILLED surface may very well be subjected to a super-saturated, very HUMID system airflow.

ZAP!! You're blind, no forward vision!

Be careful out there.

frenchorne

Latest CR survey for reliability,

http://www.consumerreports.org/main/detailv4.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=754189&FOLDER%3C%3Efo- lder_id=113261&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=333137&bmUID=1130553212850

http://www.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/10/26/cr_most_reliable/index.html

Very impressive start for the 400h. I have had zero problems in the first 8,000 miles.

wwest

99 out of 100 RX400h owners will report no problems.

hendjaz

Odd, we haven't experienced any problem defrosting front/rear windows in cold weather in our 400h. Press a button and it instantly takes care of any window fogging. Like other vehicles including my former bmw 530 you can set it so air goes wholly or partially to the windshield for continual defogging. Not a big deal imho.