Purchasing Used Vehicles

prog1

So I have a Dealer Coupon that I received via snail mail, they call it a 'voucher' it's for cash off a used vehicle.

Of course this is just way of getting me to go in there.

As it happens they have a vehicle I want. What happens if I negotiate a deal, trade-in and all and then present them with the coupon?

qbrozen

pretty much nothing.

If you've negotiated a good rock bottom price, then pull out the coupon, they will merely state "oh, we already figured that in."

jeffyscott

What does the fine print say...maybe something like "can not be combined with any other discounts..."?

greanpea68

As it happens they have a vehicle I want. What happens if I negotiate a deal, trade-in and all and then present them with the coupon?

It is a coupon. You take the discount off the price of the car and buy it. You may be able to negotiate a better deal. As you said it is a tool to get you to go to the dealership. :surprise:

GP

stickguy

they usually say in the fine print that you have to present it before making your deal. So, basically it is worth nothing.

prog1

I checked the fine print carefully:
"In stock vehicles only"
"Limit one voucher per vehicle"
"Valid on used vehicles only"
"Prior sales excluded"
"This is not a dealer rebate"

Also:
"Cannot be used in conjunction with any other offer"
which is a bit vague.

jeffyscott

Yes it is vague...I would have expected it to say:Cannot be used in conjunction with any other offer or discount.

altesk

I'm considering buying a nine year old car for sale that has very high mileage. It runs fine and everything looks pretty good cosmetically. However, I assume that I'll need to rebuild or replace the engine and transmission before too long.

Suppose I buy this car cheap, and later replace those drivetrain components when they break. I then have a car that is sort of "good as new" mechanically.

Are there any problems with this car buying strategy? Does it make economic sense?

In case you are curious about the car's details:

1999 Honda Civic
230,000 miles on the odometer (the owner claims this resulted partly from highway driving during a long commute)
Automatic transmission
AM/FM/CD
New Tires (80K warranty), New Battery, New Radiator, New Belts, New Air Conditioner compressor Unit, new fluids.
Original owner is selling it.
Alternator, water pump, CV joints and boots have never needed replacing.
Timing belt was replaced only once, at 175,000 miles (seller claims this is not far from the factory recommended interval for timing belt replacement).

Current asking price is $4050. The seller claims to have received offers of about $3500, but is holding out for a little more.

suydam

Well, it's not that cheap. If the alternator, water pump, CV joints and boots have never been replaced, it's a pretty sure bet they will need replacing soon. The timing belt on Honda Civics is supposed to be replaced every 100,000 miles, so not exactly "close to the factory recommended interval". This would lead me to question what other factory recommended maintenance this owner skipped. You don't mention the brakes. By the time you got done "rebuilding" you could have bought a much newer used Civic with lower miles and without all the hassle. Cosmetic looks mean nothing on a car with this high mileage. I would have this car very carefully inspected by a good mechanic. But then if it was me I would pass.

british_rover

I agree I would pass on the car. Timing belts on Hondas are very important as the engine will self destruct when they break. If he held off doing the timing belt for so long what else did he neglect.

quebecstat

My mechanic says that one gets better deals on used cars when one buys from dealerships in December.

Has anybody heard about that?

I appreciate your help.

rickaltman

A local broker is selling a virtually brand new Sentra SE-R Spec V for under $12,000. The reason: it is a salvage title because it was stolen and recovered by an insurance agency. The broker was up-front about that fact, and claims "no flood damage, no frame damage, no collision damage."

I am awash with questions, and at the same time tempted to take this risk. All of the discussion here with regard to salvage titles center around cars involved in accidents; this one seems different from my limited perspective.

1. I will insist upon taking it to my mechanic first. What should I ask him to check for?

2. What could CarFax tell me? Is there a way to find the nature of the theft?

3. How can I assess a fair asking price for this car?

Many thanks...

Rick A.
Pleasanton CA

corvette

The mechanic can check for flood damage by looking at it on a rack and pulling back the carpet.

Carfax would confirm or deny the theft scenario.

Your mechanic may or may not have a paint meter / mil gauge, but that would measure the thickness of the paint and allow him to determine whether the paint was factory or not.

The general rule I've heard for a salvage vehicle is to deduct one-third of the price of an undamaged vehicle. If you've satisfied yourself that there was no physical damage, and you intend to keep the car a long time, I might not deduct that much.

greanpea68

The reason: it is a salvage title because it was stolen and recovered by an insurance agency. The broker was up-front about that fact, and claims "no flood damage, no frame damage, no collision damage."

If a car was stolen and didn't have damage enough to salvage it, it would return it to it's original owner. Or it would sell it at auction with a regular title... one that is not slavaged.

GP

herc76

My wife is trying to trade-in her 2003 CTS for a 2002 Ford Focus. She is looking for a vehicle with a lower car payment so basically she can do with-out the extra luxury. The CTS has 44,000 miles and it is a sports package with a moon roof. The Blue book and N.A.D.A. values it around $15,050 for trade-in. She owes around $17,000 on the CTS. The Focus has 72,149 and valued around $6,775.The dealership is asking for $7,000. She has a pre-approved loan so that it will make the process a little easier. I was trying to figure out what is the best way to try to work this deal. I was trying to see if the dealership would pay the CTS off and then drop the Focus to $5000. According to my wife she said the Credit Union said that the vehicle is valued around $5000. Any suggestions?
Thanks!

cccompson

If the book trade value on the Cadillac is 15K, they're not going to give her 17 for it (the payoff) nor are they going to sell the Focus for 5.

She's upside down on the Cadillac and that money has to come from somewhere. Let's say they give her 13 (or even 14) for the CTS (the books are almost always low) and buys the Focus for 6. If she rolls the negative 3 or 4 into the Focus loan (probably not possible given what the Credit Union has said), she'll owe 9 or 10 on the Focus. If not, she'll have to pull it out of the sock.

And if she's going to the sock, why not just re-finance the CTS?

herc76

I was thinking about refinancing but she is looking for a vehicle with a lower payment now. Also she does not want to extend her payments longer than the current. Do you think they would drop the price for the Focus to $6,000? Then just take the lost on the CTS ($15,000)? Or do you have any other suggestions? Sorry for all the questions.

dtownfb

Not knowing the condition of the Focus, my guess is yes, you can get the Focus for $6000. If your Credit Union is saying it is only worth $5000, I can't see them approving a loan for more then that.

The real issue is the negative equity you have on the CTS. It's not going to disappear and will get rolled over into the loan of the Focus. Like mentioned in an earlier post, the book values tend to be a bit high. Then you run into the problem of having to finance $8k-$9k on a car worth only $5k. The dealership can help you with that loan but I can't see your Credit Union taking that risk.

Personally, I would go over to the Real World Trade-In values forum and find out what your CTS is really worth. There are car dealer and salesmen that buy and sell at the auctions everyday and know what used cars are really worth. Not unless the payments are unmanageable, I would stay with the CTS for another year or until you are not upsde down. Also it will give you a chance to find another used car that is more reasonably priced.

herc76

The Credit Union still gave her a pre-approve loan for $11,000.

dtownfb

Then happy shopping. I would be very careful in overpaying for the Focus. It's one thing to be upside down on a Caddy and another to be upside down on a Focus with so many miles

cccompson

Owing 17 on an '03 CTS with 44K miles makes far more sense than owing 9 or 10 on an '02 Focus with 72K miles.

jeffyscott

Owing 17 on an '03 CTS with 44K miles makes far more sense than owing 9 or 10 on an '02 Focus with 72K miles.

Not if one can't afford the more expensive car. This decision should be treated as if she did not own the CTS, if she could sell that that for, say, $14,000, she is left with a $3000 debt. That debt has NOTHING to do with what car she gets next and ultimately has nothing to do with the CTS.

Now that she is rid of the CTS...what should she do? She can "buy" the CTS from herself for $14000...meaning she now has a CTS and $17,000 in debt? Or she can buy a Focus for $6000, meaning she now owns a Focus and has $9000 in debt?

If there was a financial mistake made it was buying the CTS, that decison was already made and can not be undone. That mistake does not go away by continuing to own the CTS, nor does it go away by trading it on a Focus.

The decision to be made now is really does she want to buy the $14,000 CTS or the $6000 Focus.

cccompson

Well said, jeffyscott. However, the OP never stated that his wife couldn't afford the CTS, only that she wanted a lower payment. Now, in fact, maybe that's exactly what he meant and there isn't a choice here at all. I assumed that such a choice exists.

jeffyscott

True, perhaps my assumption that "wants a lower payment" really means "Can't afford the current payment" is wrong. But you do see that the choice is really between a $14,000 CTS and $6000 Focus, with an additional $3000 in debt, in either case, assuming the figures given are accurate?

If there really is a choice, then that the choice is really between "buying" the CTS for trade-in value or buying the Focus for retail value. Looking at it that way, the CTS pretty much has to be the better deal...which was your point...just the ~30K mi difference is worth a pretty significant portion of the $8000 cost difference.

nikhiluor

Hi,

I bought my Honda Accord 2002 in Feb , 06 from a private party in San Diego after looking into CARFAX and getting it inspected. Car has been running fine but in Oct, because of my mistake (I left fuel cap lose), Check Engine light came on. In order to check possible problem, I was checking on the possible defect/re-call/maintenance for my car in CARFAX and found that there was an accident.
After discussing with CARFAX customer care, I found out that CARFAX has added this record in Jun, 06 after finding out from Police records. This accident happened in July 05 and unfortunately earlier owner didn't reveal to me while selling his car.

I had paid the price as per KBB but without any accidental history consideration. I am not sure what should I do but it seems that I will lose around 3K while selling this car for no fault of mine...

Can anyone guide me through the option available to me?

But in anycase, don't trust CARFAX report because they don't provide complete history and can update CAR history even after you buy it from earlier owner...

Thanks
Nikhil

dtownfb

So what is the problem???? Do you know what kind of accident it was in? Do you know what type of damage there was? Did this accident affect your experience with the car? Did you ask the previous owner if the car was in an accident? Did you bother to get the car checked out by a mechanic before you purchased the vehicle?

Carfax is simply one tool you should use when purchasing a car.

etjaipleure

I've had my used 2000 Jetta for two weeks...and one of those weeks was spent in a shop. Everything is supposedly fixed with the car, except before I sent it to the shop it stalled at a red light. The engine just stopped. All the lights and radio and everything was still on. I had to put the car in park to crank it again. So I sent it to the shop, the mechanic found a few minor problems but nothing with the engine. Well I got my car back yesterday after paying several hundred dollars and what happens? I drive it for ONE day and it does again! I came to a red light and the engine goes off, lights and radio stay on. I have to put it in park again and crank it before it will go. This is the second time in two weeks and I just bought this car! I don't think I can get a refund and the warranty I had on it was crap. PLEASE HELP!!!! I am a poor college student I spent all my money on this car and whatever was left over fixing it. Im graduating and this is my first car. I need it to get to work so I can get an apartment and have a place to live. I have no family close and no financial support.Is there anyway I can get my money back? Or I can get them to give me another car or find out if this car is a lemon? Other than the stalling, there are no problems with it at all. But stalling seems to be a BIG problem.

nikhiluor

Yes, I've inquired from Highway patrol after getting the accident# from CARFAX. As per them it was major front-end accident, which costed insurance $6K. Infact after calling so many times, owner told me today that the drunk driver hit this car and damaged the bumper and hood..Bumper was replaced with original honda part and check at Honda service center...As such CAR doesn't have any problem and sure, I've got it checked with Firestone and local maintenance shop...I got it inspected from Honda again and didn't find any problem, except some maintenance suggested by Honda service .....
I am sure CARFAX is a tool but what is the use of such kind of tool, which takes around 1 year to update the information...

I will be moving out of country by end of Jan so trying to sell this CAR...because of this newly added CAR history...nobody is taking interest in buying this CAR...

and if I check with dealer, they are saying $6K for the CAR, which I bought in 13K.....

suydam

I think you might be panicking unnecessarily. If there was no frame damage, and the bumper and hood were replaced, you should not have a problem selling the car to a private party because it will pass inspection just fine. I hit a deer last year and had exactly that kind of damage, repaired it and sold my vehicle two months later with no problems. I was very upfront about what happened and the buyer had it checked carefully.

qbrozen

I see ASKING prices from dealers typically $4k over wholesale. What they actually make is a whole different story. Let's say, between reconditioning, cleaning, and transport, and the fact I knock them down $1k off the price, they actually make probably around $2200. So I'd guess $2k-$2500 is more likely the norm or average.

joel0622

I am not sure what all the hoopla is about here. I must have missed something in of of the post. But with the scenario you give you are going to be in about the same shape in the Focus as you are in the CTS.

They are doing what is called "booting" you money.

Your Car $15050.00
Their Car $ 7000.00
Difference $8050.00

You will finance your payoff minus the $8050.

Will the C.U carry $8050 on the car? I saw one figure of $5K and another of $11K so I was not sure.

FYI these are the kind of deals I see buyers remorse kick in on all the time. She just thinks she wants a lower payment till she goes from what she has to what she is getting. An older Focus is transportation and nothing else really.

isellhondas

A lot of cars have been in "an accident". It's not the end of the world. A good body shop is perfecly capable of restoring a car to like new condition. Don't listen to these people who will tell you..." It'll never be the same". This doesn't have to be true.

And 6000.00 sounds like a lot of money but at today's prices, it doesn't take that bad of a collision to hit that number.

As far as selling it? Yeah, some people will be afraid and shy away from it, others will use the accident history as a tool to devalue the car, and many others won't care one way or the other.

isellhondas

No good answer here.

The guy who "fixed" it may have mis diagnosed the problem or maybe it was multiple problems. I would take it back to him and let him know the problem is still there. Let him know what your financial situation is. It could be something minor.

Good luck. I wish you well.

isellhondas

Where do you come up with this??

Some people read posts like yours and actually believe them!

I wish we made that kind of money on used cars!

british_rover

The most we have made on a used car all year was 4,100 dollars gross profit and that was on a 50,000 dollar used car.

I think that is a fair return on investment.

We average for closer to 2,000 dollars over all on used car gross.

No way are you going to see the commission sheet of the salesman who took the car in trade. Also if the car was a lease return or bought from an auction that sheet won't even exist.

jeffyscott

and did you cut the price on that car by $3000?

bolivar

You said "A lot of cars have been in "an accident". It's not the end of the world. A good body shop is perfecly capable of restoring a car to like new condition. Don't listen to these people who will tell you..." It'll never be the same". This doesn't have to be true. "

Oh, come now. Insurance companies pay thousands in 'diminished value' claims on repaired cars.

And your used car manager allows less on any car that he can determine has been in an accident.

isellhondas

Yes, you are correct.

Still, a properly repaired car can be just fine.

user777

Isell, I agree with your statement, a good shop doing good work can produce good results.

I had 10K damage on an '02 Accord several years ago (front end crunched, bumper, fenders, radiator, hood, yada yada) including airbag (both) deployment... that made it extra expensive repair-wise.

I tell everyone that it was fixed so well, and I'm not kidding, it drives better now than before the accident.

qbrozen

woohoo! I guessed $2200. What do I win??

corvette

(in Bob Barker voice): You've all overbid!

british_rover

Nope we did not. It wasn't my deal so I am not sure if any discount was given at all. I just saw the gross sheet on monday and noticed that it was the highest gross on the board.

ohiocat110

Hey everyone looking for a bit of advice,

Sometime in the near future I'm planning on buying a used sedan to use as a family car (2 kids in carseats). We're looking to spend 2-4K and pay cash, ideally around $3000-3500 so we have a bit left over to start a repair fund.

I suppose my primary concern is what cars can be considered to be reliable in the high-mileage range that are available for around that price? Many of the cars I'm finding through searches are around 1996-2001 year range, and anywhere from 70-150K miles. Any success stories? Any models to avoid like the plague?

I'm being realistic in that I don't expect to buy this kind of a car and not do any maintainance for a year, or anything like that. I'm just looking for some help in narrowing my search. Thanks! -Mike

oldfarmer50

"...We're looking to spend 2-4K..."

I would be looking at private sales. I don't think you will find anything decent on a dealer lot for under 5K. Unless you are very knowledgeable about cars, have it checked out by a professional. If you don't have a mechanic there are services that will go out and check out a car for you for about $100.

I personally would look for domestics as opposed to imports. The domestics have improved quality a lot in the past 10 years but because of public perception their resale value is much lower.

jeffyscott

Dealerships should just sell cars for what they paid for them.

Sounds like a great business model to me, maybe you should start-up a dealership.

jeffyscott

When two of my sons were looking earlier this year, there were a lot of good deals on Taurus/Sable...particularly in wagon form. (These did not appeal to them, of course.) I think these are fairly reliable (I think CR has then at average or above for most years) and safe vehicles as well as being cheap and easy to find.

Not a sedan, but used minivans also often seem to be available at bargain prices.

cccompson

You've got a tall order because three grand doesn't buy much anymore. Five seems to be about the starting point to get something decent.

I have to disagree with jeffyscott about the Taurus/Sable because the damned things (although attractively priced) are moneypits. Will second his thought about a minivan though - you get more bang for the buck and they are MUCH friendlier to use with carseats. If you're set on a sedan, most anything GM with the 3.8 motor is a fair bet.

isellhondas

I assume as I'm sure the others do that you are joking or trying to bait us.

But just in case you aren't...You should invest several million dollars into a business and then sell your products for what you paid for them.

A real success model that would be!

isellhondas

I actually agree on the domestic part IF you can find a good one.

Taurus/Sables CAN be a lot of car for the money but the 3.8 engines should be avoided. The 3.0's are better and you have to MAKE SURE the transmission isn't bad. The newer ones are better. I would lean toward a GM car and, yes, the 3.8 engines are incredible.

Saturns can be OK cars too.

tidester

Not to nitpick ...

Nevertheless, you did! Some would conclude that obsession with other's typing exposes one as an internet neophyte . Let's stay with the topic and leave proofreading to the professionals!

tidester, host
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