Purchasing Used Vehicles

tempo9

My disabled son is choosing between a 1998 Buick LeSabre with 83,000 miles on it in pretty good condition; we are getting it inspected tomorrow and will get a CarFax report as well. car is being sold by "Louiie's Cars" (not real name)... runs and rides well. Dealer wants 4995.
The other car is a garage kept 2000 Park Avenue loaded with 107k miles sold by an elderly gent for 6,000. Car is in pristine condition; we haven't driven it yet.
Question: If the Park Ave is in good running/mechanical condition which would be the wisest choice? He has very little money and doesn't know how to fix cars.
HELP!

Thank you
Tempo9 (devoted to my Toyota Highlander :confuse:

jipster

When you say "dealer wants 4995" for the LeSabre, is that the asking price, or his bottom line already negotiated price? I may take the LeSabre if I could get it for $4k... otherwise a Park Avenue in "pristine condition" sounds pretty good. I would imagine the Park Avenue sucks down the gas a little quicker though.

cccompson

Gas mileage should be the same since both have the great 3.8 motor. Some '00 Parks had stability control and, if so equipped, that alone would make it a better choice.

All other things being equal, I would always buy from a private owner (especially an original purchaser) before any dealer (new or used).

imidazol97

The question is that about 30% of the 98 leSabres would have had an upper intake manifold leak if the DexCool was not changed out every couple of years from when it was new. The original DexCool was changed early on, but deteriorated seals. The upper manifold has date stamps on it in circles that show if it's the original or was replaced with a GM replacement. Ideal would be another company's replacement used. Replacement would be $2-300 at a good shop. Not a lot.

The 2000 Park Avenue is after the lower manifolds were changed slightly to ameliorate the EGR hot tube problem that deteriorated the upper in some cases by leaving more air space in the factory design. Since the 1998 does not have paperwork to indicate the replacement has occured with a good replacement, I'd pick the Park Avenue. Your mechanic that checks the car should check for upper and lower gasket replacements. If a problem they often occured at about 75K miles. I also think the Park Avenue may have some maintenance but it's a few hundred pounds heavier that means a little difference in start and stop driving, but little for longer drives in the gas mileage.

vincem1948

With gas prices the way they are, I'd check out which has the better mpg. My 05 LeSabre gets about 25mpg adn it has 84,000 miles on it. Other than a gas cap error code, I've had no problems with it and I bought it with 16k on it.

imidazol97

That's very typical of the cars. It's a shame Buick chose to discontinue them.

You have a Series I 3800 motor and they are great and even better than the 3.8 L they evolved from. The Series II came in 96 or 97 with a slightly different design for the upper intake manifold. The EGR gases go through a plastic tube inside the upper which deteriorates with age and heat. The tube has coolant on the other side of it and sometimes coolant starts seeping into the intake air pathway. Replacements were improved in design and the new parts after 1999 had the improved design.

The gas mileage difference between the two cars would be minor. I'll bet they are both rated then at 29/20 or 29/19.

theessenceofla

Hey Folks,

I just graduated college and looking into getting a fairly new (but used) car!!

What do you think about mazda 3i Auto for first car? Also I have found a seller that's got 2006 mazda 3i for $12000 with Automatic transmission,ac,cd player etc (the basics) with about 20000 miles on it and still under warranty....

is it worth biting?

theessenceofla

no response to my above question yet? Come on people, help me out!

You gotta have something to say about this :-)

Also my other option is

$15500- 2008 Hyundai Elantra GLS ($15500 OTD with everything) or
$12250- 2006 Mazda3i ($12250 OTD with similar features as elantra but 20000 miles)

I plan to keep either car for 3-4 years max...
And actually I can afford to put about $5000 down with loan rates @ about 5% for either of those cars through my CU..

So what's the better option? Or are they both about the same? I am 22 btw...

oldfarmer50

"...is it worth biting?..."

A base level 2006 Mazda 3i as you describe it has a private party value of a little over $14K according to Edmunds TMV. Dealer retail is about $15.2K. I assume this is a private deal so your price of $12K sounds good. Those figures assume perfect condition.

The Mazda 3 is a highly rated car in most reviews.

My only advice is to have it completely checked out by a mechanic. Do you know the seller? Does he/she have any service records? Good luck and report back to us how it goes.

theessenceofla

No I don't know the seller personally but here is the new situation:

I see why it's cheap

It's privately owned now but it was a rental car for 4 months and it has about 4000 miles from rental car. Since then, another owner has used it.

I am going to get it checked by mechanic but this requires thinking

20000 miles (2 owners- I will be 3rd)
$12000+tax
No accidents or anything else on autocheck though

still a good deal?

jipster

It's privately owned now but it was a rental car for 4 months and it has about 4000 miles from rental car. Since then, another owner has used it.

I am going to get it checked by mechanic but this requires thinking

20000 miles (2 owners- I will be 3rd)
$12000+tax
No accidents or anything else on autocheck though

still a good deal?

This deal smells... bad. A car rental for 4 months? Just because it has not shown anything on autocheck does not necessarily mean it has a clean history. Not all accidents will show up on auto-check or Carfax.

I tolds ya to get the Hyundai... so get a going. :mad:

jenfog

We're looking to get a different minivan, and found one that looks really good but we're not sure it's worth what they're asking, nor sure what they gave for trade in is true since from what we've found the trade in amount they offered the previous owner is higher than KBB or TMV. Any help?

The specs on the vehicle we're interested in is as follows: 2001 Oldsmobile Silhouette GLS, around 55k miles, one owner local trade in, all leather seats, 6 captains chairs for seating (No bench seat), all seats recline and back two rows fold foward to create a sort of table area, dual comfort zones for air/heat and another zone with controls in the rear, rear controls for a "second" radio with two headphone jacks, trip computer, parking sensors, cruise, all power, heated driver/passenger seats, driver seat position memory for two drivers, power sliding doors, new to relatively new tires, AM/FM/Cassette/CD, radio controls on steering wheel. The interior is spotless, the exterior has very minor scratches for the most part except one piece of molding on one of the sliding doors is coming off but could be easily fixed and a couple dark yellow scuffs on the front bumper. Basically, this car is fully loaded with just about every option we can think of for the interior of the vehicle, especially for a 2001. Sounds like a good deal, but is it? Especially since Oldsmobile no longer exists as a company, it makes us wonder if it looks as good as it truly is.

According to KBB, trade in would have been around $5290 to $5725. By TMV, trade in at $4986. However I'm not sure how accurate either is. They're telling us (and showed us a document) they gave the previous owner a few months ago $6199 as a trade in value despite it's needing to have the AC repaired/replaced as it wasn't working. Are the amounts I'm finding from KBB and TMV accurate for the specs on this vehicle? I guess what we don't understand is why would they offer so much more for trade in than these places are reporting it's worth? And what would be a fair offer from us for this vehicle to purchase it? As it was left,the final offer was $7300 plus document fees plus TT&L. Good, or no? We'd really appreciate some help if anyone can give any.

corvette

Price seems high. You're aware of the intake manifold gasket problems with GM's 3.4-liter V6? Figure $1000 to fix it when it breaks, if you catch it in time.

eaasy

Too many claims of quality, efficiency, and performance out there. I'm 71, excellent lifetime driving record, competed in SCCA and independent events years ago, tend to be generally dissatisfied with reviews as well as advertising. I'd like suggestions based on the following (needs and wants are equal). I want to buy a one to three year old used card whose attributes are equally regarded for the following: Price (nothing else matters if I can't afford it), Comfort (I'm 6'3 and 220), Performance (don't choose to become a road hazard), Durability (retired, won't spend time tinkering and taking in for repairs), Freshness (prefer under 15,000 miles of prior use). In a sense, almost any brand would do, but those with lengthy warranty would seem to make sense given my age and good health. My driving is equal parts (1/3 each) local errands of 1 mile or so round trip, metro use on thoroughfares and freeways of 50 miles or more, and extended road trips of 1,000 to 3,000 miles round trip. Most frequent are the one milers, least frequent the extended trips, but they add up to about equal applied mileage.

Make-model-style-options ideas are most welcome. Start with a Honda Accord EX-L V6 coupe, and know all suggestions are appreciated.

Eaasy - Fort Worth

oldfarmer50

"...from what we've found the trade in amount they offered the previous owner is higher than KBB or TMV..."

I think you may be looking at the wrong part of this transaction. It doesn't matter what the dealer offered the previous owner, it only matters what YOU think the car is worth.

Many times a dealer will pay more for the trade and then make it up by charging full MSRP for the new vehicle. They also make up for high trade price by selling overpriced "extras" (sometimes called mop & glo here) on the new vehicle. So what they tell you they "have invested in the vehicle" is of no concern to you.

Use KBB "dealer retail" as a starting point in negotiations, NOT the price you should pay. TMV is better IMO because it is based on what people have actually paid.

As far as Oldsmobile not being made anymore I wouldn't worry. As long as GM is still in business there will be parts. You might use that fact as a bargaining chip though, to get the price down.

Good luck. Have an independent mechanic look the car over and let us know how things went.

jeffyscott

Use KBB "dealer retail" as a starting point in negotiations, NOT the price you should pay.

Yes that is definitely not what you should pay. KBB dealer retail is certainly way high. KBB describes it as something like dealer asking price. So it may be the dealer's starting point, but should not be the buyer's...edmunds TMV or KBB private party is, I think, a better target for the buyer.

dtownfb

I would go to the Chevy Venture and Pontiac Montana forums and look over those posts. You'll probably see some common problems, one was already mentioned.

bolivar

End with a Honda Accord EX-L V6.

theessenceofla

Just to Update,

I got the car and I ended up getting mazda 3i. More fun to drive and less out of pocket expenses and loan payments now.

I checked CARFAX and AutoCheck
I had the car checked out by a Mechanic
I called the dealer to see if any work was done (bulb change) and if it was still under warranty (yes!! till 50,000 or 2010)

Everything checked out and I drove home with it

Summary:-

Age: 22
19,600 miles 2006 mazda 3i touring
4.6% CU loan with Auto Debit payments
No Gap & No extended warranty
$12000 +$350 (Sales Tax and title and plate transfer)

Having a car to drive!! Priceless!!!

Thank you all for your help and input. I am happy and that's the most important thing!!

isellhondas

Coming in late here...

Those really weren't very good cars. Not horrible but not very good either. With Oldsmobile out of business body and trim parts may be impossible to find but the mechanical parts should be available.

It's a car they are porbably having trouble selling.

imidazol97

>body and trim parts may be impossible to find

Rockauto.com and gmpartsdirect.com seems to have the interior and exterior body parts just fine. It's only a 2001.

Check out the listing on rockauto.com.

Also recycled parts car-parts.com is an interesting place to browse for parts.

isellhondas

Good information to know.

robbieg

Not sure where to post this, but I am trying to figure out if there is a program that compares a specific used car purchase with a specific new car purchase. For example, if I am going to spend 25000 on a new car financed over 5 years with a down payment of $6000. I can chose either a new 2008 vw passat or a 2006 cadillac sts, for example. I know that it costs more to finance a used car than a new car. Say I want to sell the car in 3 years, which one would I have the most equity in?

qbrozen

Well, you can check out Edmunds True Cost to Own figures.

here is the STS v8

dtownfb

You should read this month's addition of Consumer Reports. They talk about the advantages of buying used over new.

robbieg

I did check out the TCO feature. Basically, I am debating about getting a new Accord or an off-lease Lexus ES 330. I was expecting a bigger drop in projected depreciation the first year for the Accord but it just wasn't there. I guess if you are buying a domestic car, it make much more sense to buy used than it does if you are buying a Honda.

jeffyscott

I guess if you are buying a domestic car, it make much more sense to buy used than it does if you are buying a Honda.

I think that is true. The pricing of used Hondas and Toyotas is (to me) ridiculously high.

But, even in the case of domestics or other supposedly faster depreciating cars, if you get a big discount and rebate it can also get to the point where new seems to be a better deal. One who get 25% off MSRP on a domestic will see less depreciation than one who only gets 15% off on the same car.

foona

I''ve been searching for a used car for my kid in the 4 to 5K range. Is seems most private sales people are asking edmunds dealer retali price (from edmunds usec car appraiser).

Maybe with a weaker economy there's more demand for lower priced used cars? I would have though deals would be plentiful.

Anybody else come to this conclusion?

oldfarmer50

"...It seems most private sales people are asking edmunds dealer retail prices..."

Boy ain't that the truth. They also seem fond of pricing their cars at KBB "excellent" and then tell you the tranny slips, the car is full of dents and rust and the power windows don't work.

I think some people actually think that their busted-up over miled junker is worth that much but I think the real reason is that they are hoping for a home run. Just as some people feel "taken" if they pay $2 more than their neighbor, they feel bad if they take $2 less for their "baby".

I would consider a Craigslist price a starting point. Haggle a little and see if the asking price is truly "firm". If they won't eventually settle for Edmunds TMV then walk away. You'll eventually see it posted again on Craigslist in a few weeks.

mandy81

I have more or less settled on this vehicle but these are the issues and one will determine whether I buy it or not.

1) fairly insignificant but still an issue passenger side mirror has a crack on the bottom of it. it doesn't affect the use dealer will replace at my expense. this is a no brainer b/c I can get it fixed else where cheaper.

2) major issue IMO. in the middle row the seat behind the driver adjusts but when sales rep open door he was able to push the seat back and pull it forward w/out using the lever. he did do something to lock but I am not sure what. this to me is a safety issue especially b/c I will be the primary driver w/ my 8 and 5 yr old in it. I feel the dealer should fix this and not at my expense am I wrong for feeling this way. This is my first time buying a used car. It is the recline mechanism not the seat sliding back and forth.

oldfarmer50

"...but there are issues..."

Either make the repair of these items a condition of sale or get an estimate of repair cost from an outside shop and deduct this amount from your offer.

My guess is the dealer will opt to fix it for you.

bolivar

On the seat repair - make sure it truly 'works' after someone repairs it. If they just 'lock' it into place, so it will no longer move, I'm thinking a cheap screwdriver jammed into the track would accomplish this, but not be much of a true repair.

Why would I worry about something like this? Ask me about the repair done on a Corvette A/C I bought...

leonfam

I'm looking into buying a used vehicle. I've printed the TSB and recall info available on Edmunds. But..I can't figure out how to find out if this specific car was affected by the recall. The current owner (first) couldn't remember, but was going to check the records for any recall-related service he had done. I'd like to confirm on my own.

The issues are related to trans and air bags...kinda important...
thanks

bolivar

Two ways:
-Go to the dealer with the VIN number. They call tell you all recalls and whether or not they have been applied to the specific car.
-Go to this site. It will tell you if the year, make, model has any recall and a short description of what they are
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/

millikin54

I am planning to look at some BMW and Lexus CPO SUVs this week, but I am not sure how much haggling can be done on these vehicles. I usually buy new cars and that makes it much easier for me to know my target prices before getting into discussions about the final numbers.

Additionally, the listed prices for the vehicles I've researched tend to be pretty close to Edmunds' pricing. My general experience tells me that most used vehicles have a few thousand dollars that can be haggled, but I don't know about these situations, since I'm figuring that most of them are from leases and their residual values were likely inflated, so BMW/Lexus probably took a small hit on them already.

I'd certainly like to hear from anyone that is more familiar with this process.

Thanks.

qbrozen

Well, my understanding of many CPO programs is that they require a good bit of money be put into the car by the dealer. There are typically rules they need to follow, such as new brakes, even if the current ones have plenty of life, new wiper blades, full service, etc, etc. Then there is the actual cost of the extended warranty.

All in all, depending on the vehicle and manufacturer, you are possibly looking at $2k on top of the typical profit, which is $1k-$2500. So my suggestion is to find out what the car in question is truly worth as a trade by posting the info on The Real-World Trade-in Values board. Then I'd be shooting for $3500-$4500 over that number for a CPO car from BMW/Lexus.

Now, you ARE looking at SUVs, which are getting hit hard these days, so I'd probably start them out with an offer of $2k over trade-in value and work from there.

millikin54

Thank you for your input.

Quickly running the pricing on an X5 (for illustration purposes) shows a delta of around $7,000 between trade-in and retail CPO prices. So $2,000 above trade-in value still leaves round $5,000. The value of the certification itself seems to be around $3,000 (based on the price difference via Edmunds, retail vs CPO pricing). That seems to leave a fairly realistic target of about $2k under asking.

Unfortunately, I also need to trade in an SUV (Durango w/ Hemi), so I'll likely need at least part of that $2k to absorb some negative equity in my own vehicle. Fortunately I bought the Durango used and it had already taken an $18k depreciated hit. Depending on which trade-in appraisal calculator I use, I'm anywhere from $0-$2k in the negative. I figure I should do no worse than break even with asking price and full payoff on my trade-in (which would be my absolute break off point). Hopefully I can do even better than that. At least I now have a gameplan.

qbrozen

well, just don't put any stock in trade-in numbers you get off of any free internet guide (including Edmunds).
Use that link I provided and ask an expert (volvomax, in this case) what REAL trade-in values are of both the BMW and your Durango.

millikin54

Thanks again for the tip. I just posted over there.

vlane

I get the impression that more people are buying used cars as opposed to new ones and with the increase in demand comes the associated higher costs. Also, people are selling cars that they owe a lot on so they need to get full value. Interesting observation though. :shades:

vlane

The Mazda 3 is a good car, as good as any for the price in its class. It's good that it's still under warranty because it does have some well known maintenance issues.

marys236

I'm looking at a 2007 Sonata GLS 4cyl, auto., 37k miles, sunroof, power drivers seat, at a Hyundai dealership. The dealer has it listed on their website for $11,995, which seems like a good price. It would still have about 23k left on the warranty, which is nice. I'm wondering if there's any room to negotiate the price down further. I test drove it today, and they tried to tell me the price was $14k. I had no intention of buying the car today anyway, so I left and told them I'd call next week, but I'm assuming I can get the car for what they have listed on the website, $11,995 (TMV is $13237 for dealer retail). It's a former rental car, and has been on their lot for about 60 days, but it looked like it was in good shape.

corvette

Many dealers have an "internet price" as well as a lot price, and it looks like that's what you're running into. There is probably not a lot of room for negotiation in the $11,995 price, but there may be some.

Don't get too attached to this particular Sonata--they were very popular with rental fleets, and I see a lot of the 2006-present models on used car lots.

marys236

Don't get too attached to this particular Sonata--they were very popular with rental fleets, and I see a lot of the 2006-present models on used car lots.

There are several of the 2006-2007 Sonatas on this dealership's lot right now , so I think I should be able to get a pretty good deal on one. This particular one has been "marked down" because its been on the lot for a while, which makes me think I could get them to come down a little more. Maybe I'll offer $11,500? I wonder why they have had trouble selling it, I couldn't see anything wrong with it, but I know nothing about cars. It's silver, maybe that color's not popular.

alamocity

I would also suggest that you have a mechanic look at the car before purchasing just to make sure there are no problems with it.

oldfarmer50

"...I wonder why they have had trouble selling it..."

Because it's a former rental.

corvette

Because it's a former rental.

Formal rentals sell all the time... Nothing is selling well right now.

dtownfb

Offer $10,00 and see what happens. If they have a bunch, maybe you might get lucky.

The car market is really tight right now. Not many people buying and credit is tough to come by.

tidester

The car market is really tight right now.

It's a transient effect. Gas and oil prices are plummeting, the general economy will oscillate for a while but eventually settle down and the cars people have will continue to age.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

doing_research

Hi,

We are currently shopping for a used vehicle in the Atlanta area and came across a # of good deals offered by Atlanta Best Deals, LLC (autotrader.com ID 53579222) and GA Best Car Deals (autotrader ID 100012080). Has anyone ever done business with them and would like to share their experience? Know anything about their reputation? I am just wondering if it is worth the extra money buying from the manufacturer's dealership. Thanks for your input.