Purchasing Used Vehicles

johnoh

2007 Honda Accord EX-L PZEV 4Cyl - 9200 miles - $16400 (+6.5% Tax + 283.50 Title+doc) = $17.7k

It's certified so it qualified for 3.9% over 60mo.

They did try to push wrap warranty, but since i didn't research it, I didn't want to buy it. But looking back it doesn't seem like such a bad deal for $905.

Also considered New 2010 Hyundai Sonata, New Honda Accord LX...

This seemed like the best deal for the amenities, and only 9.2k miles

eugene123

Hi folks -

I am a new poster and new buyer in the used car world. I am deliberating if I have found a great value-buying opportunity or if I've come across a sucker's trap.

I have come across a certified used '08 AWD Limited Highlander with premium sound, leather and moonroof (no navigation) with about 30,000 miles on it. I've never bought a used car, but it is a Certified Used vehicle being offered by a Toyota dealership in Maryland. It looks to be in good condition with one big caveat for me - it has had 2 prior owners within the last two years. While it checks out on carfax and is certified, it gives me some sense of hesitation. The listing price is nearly $32K and seems a bit pricey to me. The Edmunds price seems to be closer to $30K.

The questions for the community are this:
- Should I be automatically suspicious given it has had 2 previous owners?
- If I trade this car in or sell it in the future, will it hold significantly less residual value for me in the future as the 3rd owner vs. if I were only the 2nd owner?
- What's a reasonable price range to pay if this car is really in excellent condition? Are there any "tricks of the trade" of how much a dealer will typically mark a sticker price above their floor? Can I getaway with a deal given it has had 2 previous owners?

stickguy

no, being 2 owners is not a big deal. it may also have been passed from one dealer t5o another. Carfax sometimes looks odd, but if the car checks out, and it is certified, then being 2nd or 3rd is of no relevance.

as to the price, I have no idea. Seems a bit pricey, but certified cars at a dealer are always listed for top $$. Cehck sourse, and look for other similar units listed elsewher3e, and feel free to offer whatever you are comfortable with, based on the market.

jipster

Dealership mark-up on used cars is usually quite high. I think you would be able to get it anywhere from Edmunds trade-in value to Edmunds private party value.Dealerships pay wholesale, which is below trade-in value. Start at trade-in and see how you can do. Have a set price you don't want to go over. Walk if things are taking too long or they pressure you, and think things over.I wound't worry about the 2 owners. If you're looking to spend around $30K, I'd go ahead and spend a little more and buy new. But, that's me, good luck.

eugene123

Thanks!

singh7

Hi all, I am moving to TX in about 2 weeks and wud need to buy a car as soon as possible,, was looking at ecarone dealer near Plano TX, looking to get something around 22-24K, like a 2007-2008 acura/3series/lexus es......have no idea how much the mark ups are and how to negotiate,,,,from all my reading looks like the rule is to start with the trade-in value and dont go past the private party value......now does this applies to premium brands as well,,,,does their quicker depreciation means higher markups? and also, has anybody dealt with ecarone at ecarone.com or their ebay store???

isellhondas

Yu can analyze this to death. Just know market forces determine pricing.

Offering the trade in value probably won't buy a car but you can offer anything.

psmith1854

Hello, this is my first post, and I seek some advice. Looking to purchase a used hatchback or similar vehicle in the next 3-6 months. Currently drive a Mercury Mountaineer and/or Saturn SC2 depending on the day.

I need some help with my decision. The only thing I have set in stone is I want a white car, small for good gas mileage, and something fun to drive. I also have a 3 yr old daughter ( will be 4 by the time purchase is made ) and I need room and safety for her too. My main concern is getting her in and out of the back seat when taking her to pre-school. She will only be in the car 4-5 days a week, the other times her mother will be picking her up, or we will be using the Mountaineer.

I'm also looking for something reliable, since I drive 52 miles one way to work. I only work 4 days a week, so we are looking around 410-430 miles a week approx. I need something that is reliable, good gas mileage. Repair costs and maintenance are of also concern.

I have 3 cars in mind that are listed below, but I am open to any suggestions of other models, and/or opinions of listed models.

Mini Cooper S -

I've test drove the MINI and I loved everything about it. The interior is nice and doesn't feel cheap. Its good for my 52 mile one way trip to work daily, can seat 4, and its fun to drive. My only concern is that getting in the back seems to be a bit of a hassle.

Mini Clubman S

Same as above, but I haven't test drove one. The added clam door is nice, but I just am not sure about its looks. My main issue with looks is the rear, but its just a car right?

Volkswagen GTI

I like that they offer a 4 door model, and it seems to be a very fun car to drive. Yes the MINI has the Countryman, but I personally dislike the looks of that car. Doesn't seem like a MINI to me. The interior is nice, but not as nice as the MINI. It also dont have as many options as the MINI, but thats good, because options add up quickly. Mileage is good also.

I'm sure I've left out some things, but hopefully this will give you guys a base idea of what I am looking for and wanting to get out of my new vehicle.

stickguy

I guess you want something with style and a level of sport/performance.

You also left out a price range.

anyway, until you listed your options, my first thought was a Toyota matrix/pontiac Vibe. Would fit the functional bill perfectly, and be cheaper, but may be too bland for you!

I would add to the list a Subaru WRX hatch, and a mazda 3 (potentially a mazdaspeed).

You did not mention if you wanted a stick or automatic, which could eliminate the mazdaspeed (stick only I believe). Not sure if you can get a WRX variant with an AT.

most likely the sube, mazda (and for sure the Toyota) will be cheaper to maintain. The GTI should not be too bad, and no idea how reliable/cheap to maintain the Minis are these days.

also, I would stay away from any 2 door. major, major hassle if you have to deal with car seats. Not such a big deal once the kids are getting in/out and doing all the buckling work by themselves!

psmith1854

yea I guess I left those out.

I'm looking more towards 5 speed, unless I purchase a GTI.

Price range considering I am looking used would be around 13k - 17k.

I was considering the Clubman because of its Clam door. If I go the route of any other brand/vehicle I want to go towards a 4 door model.

backy

If you are looking for excellent highway fuel economy, how about a used Jetta or Golf TDI, vs. a GTI?

psmith1854

Well I want something sporty to drive. Something to make the drive less blah if you want to put it that way.

backy

On a highway drive, how will the sportiness help you?

psmith1854

half of my drive is country roads, and I take random trips from time to time. If I can stay away from Highways, I do.

I just want something fun to drive. I've drove bland cars since i've started driving and I want something fun to drive everyday, and something I will enjoy driving for years to come.

kyfdx

4-door GTI seems like the best choice, considering you want back seat access, and a lot of fun... But, I'd still get a stick-shift...

stickguy

Maybe he can buy Q's GTI. Must be pushing a year now, so he should be about ready to move on to something new!

qbrozen

Was about to chime in here ... no, stick, mine is not for sale. I still love it.

Hence why I do support that choice to the original poster. I went through exactly the same choice starting back around May. Trust me, the Cooper is right out. You would find that out yourself if you go to test drive. There is NO space in that backseat. I also checked out the mazdaspeed3. Depending on how tall you are, it might be a decent choice. I didn't fit comfortably, personally. Plus, I was disappointed to find out 2nd gear maxed out at like 53-55 mph, which is a problem for my autocrossing hobby.

You can go out and test drive a wide variety, like I did, but I'm pretty sure you'll find the GTI is the best all around choice. It is very comfy. Has a comparatively HUGE back seat. Handles amazingly well. Has plenty of power all through the rev range. And is stylish.

I also suggest the stick, though. If you do go with one with the DSG, please buy a certified one with less than 40k and make sure you have the fluid changed at 40k and every 40k thereafter.

For all models, you also have to be aware of a problem with the cam follower on the fuel pump. They wear down and cause big problems when they finally wear all the way through. This is an item that must be replaced on occassion. Again, on one with under 50k, you should be good, but you will want to replace it immediately to be on the same side (you may even want to pay to have this checked out prior to purchase). Other than that, nothing major to fret about.

Prices hold pretty strong on these. I picked up my '07 4-door with moonroof and 50k miles back in July for about $15,500. You might be able to do a hair better at about $15k now. But that would be non-certified.

morton22

I'm looking at an 08 Mazda3 Touring model sedan with auto, 29k. The dealer is listing it at 11,999. If I bring a bag with $10,000 cash, any chance I can drive it home?

qbrozen

I'd be a bit wary even at $12k. Bottom trade-in value is $10k. $12k would be a GREAT price unless something is wrong with it or it has a shady history.

morton22

I'm also looking at an 08 Civic Coupe LX, with auto and 30k. A ton of these lease returns must have come up for auction recently in L.A. because virtually every dealership has one or two. Most are being offered at 15,000. On the edmunds site trade in for this model is 9800. What's a good offer, 11,000? 11,500?

graboid

Hi everyone, my car search for the past several months has brought me here to Edmunds.

I'm looking for my first car, and I would really appreciate some help.

Like everyone wants in a car, it needs to be reliable, not require too much maintenance, but if it does it won't be too difficult and/or expensive. Also, good fuel economy would also be nice

I have up to $5k to spend and I'd like something with 100k on it or less and with a manual transmission.

Can anyone suggest some specific cars for me to look into?

Thanks

stickguy

well, the manual eliminates many choices, making the task easier!

an obvious option is a Honda, most likely a Civic, but normally these are premium priced, so that price point is either going to be much higher priced, or mega miles.

So, in terms of cars that fit your criteria, and can often be had at a reasonable price, there are a few. depending on how well equipped, and miles, you are looking somewhere in the 2000-2002 MY, maybe newer.

Oh, and to me, in this range, condition and maintenance should trump year and miles (within reason)

1) My favorite would be a Protege. Various trim levels to choose from, but not that hard to find in a stick, and a very nice car.
2) you may even find an early (2004?) mazda 3 now for that money.
3) Sentra is reliable, but IMO not as nice a car
4) you can find a Focus cheap, probably newer, but not sure how many sticks.
5) Might find a nice Hyundai elantra. I like the GT 5 door.

if you want something a little bigger, harder to find with a stick, but not impossible. Look at a mazda 6.

backy

"Reliable", less than 100k miles, and less than $5000, and with a stick, don't make it very easy.

For example, I just did a search on cars.com within 100 miles of the Twin Cities, a pretty big metro area, and found these cars that MIGHT fit the bill:

2002 Subaru Imprezza, 87k miles (stick)
2003 Ford ZX2 (aka Escort coupe), 93k miles (stick)
2002 Saturn SL, 96k (stick)

And that's it! So this kind of car is rare. When you find one, be prepared to buy it NOW because they will likely go fast.

P.S. I doubt you'll find a Protege or Mazda3 (or Mazda6!) with under 100k miles for under $5k, or a Sentra. You might find an Elantra, but sticks are rare. A couple of Foci showed up on my search, but around 2000 MY and all automatics. You might find a stick if you look hard, or are lucky.

stickguy

I wouldn't wish an Sl on anyone. I did think of the sube, but was worried that one with miles might be maintenance intensive.

also not sure where the OP is from, and subes are somewhat regional.

in Jersey, a quick check turned up a 2003 protege with 103K on it for $4,995.

but that was cars.com, so a dealer, so more money. Something like this you can likely do better private sale.

stickguy

heres a not bad looking one.

http://southjersey.craigslist.org/cto/2290046337.html

close on the miles and the price. heck, I like this one myself. Always liked these.

http://southjersey.craigslist.org/cto/2244462475.html

graboid

I should probably add my location: the SF bay area

I've looked at Elantras, Proteges, and Foci, and I like all of them

I'd love a Protege5, but in my area they are too expensive

The bottom line: I just want to get the best car I can within my budget

Thanks for all the replies everyone! I'll definitely keep you posted

bolivar

Tremors. One of my favorites.

Kirstie_H

I'm partial to the Protege, because it was a fun manual to drive. I had one for quite awhile, and I beat the heck out of it mileage-wise, didn't take great care of it (not bad, but not great), and it ran just great. Bought it with 22K on the clock, sold it with mileage in the upper 80's, and the only repair I ever had was replacing the alternator.

Looking back I wish I'd have kept it because - to the original point - it would have made a great first car for one of my kids.

qbrozen

Oh, stick, why would you go an post that $3500 protege? And its in the town I work in. Good thing I don't have $3000 laying around to blow. Although I suspect it is NOT an ES, which is the one I would want.

I'm partial to P5s, of course, but they are considerably more expensive.

Being in SF, the OP has a tougher task at hand, from what I've heard about that area.

But, anyhoo, an '02 Protege LX manual with under 100k is worth all of $2000 as a trade-in. So buying one for $5k should be a breeze ($4k-$4500 would be more like it). Just have to find it.

A comparable Civic LX is more like $3500 trade ... so you should be able to buy private party for your pricerange, but you'd be standing in line to get it, probably.

An Elantra GT hatch or Focus ZTS sedan are both right there with the Mazda in terms of value. So I would focus on those 3. And finding an '02 with under 100k shouldn't be all that tough.

I'll throw another one at ya, too. A 2002 Saturn SL2 manual with under 100k is worth $1750 on trade. So paying $4k for such a car would be decent.

stickguy

the cheap one does look like potentially a good buy for a station car, or for a teen. Just needs a moonroof to be about perfect! Or just be an ES.

The P5 is only a few towns from me, but I really am not looking for something like that at the moment.

tcugrilla

I am an outside sales rep that drives 40K miles a year and carries material that is up to 5 ft long. Currently I drive a 2009 Jeep Commander that is killing me with the lack of gas mileage and the price of gas. I have decided to get an older car sub $15000 that already has the depreciation taken out of it and gets moderately good gas mileage. I am looking at a Toyota RAV4, Honda CRV, Subaru Outback, Volvo V50, or other wagons. Your suggestions for a vehicle that is trustworthy with high mileage is greatly appreciated.

qbrozen

out of those, I would focus on the RAV and Subie. IMO, the CRV has such high resale value that its just not worth buying used. At 40k per year, I'd avoid european cars altogether.

I also might look at a Focus wagon. Much cheaper purchase price. I mean, after all, you are really looking for something inexpensive and completely disposable when driving that much. Another to keep an eye out for (but they are rare) is a Saturn Astra (although technically european, at least it is inexpensive).

orlando_m

Hi,

I've just arrived in the US. I understand the insurance premium penalty for not having a US driver license is very high. At the same time, car leases require higher insurance covers (100/300/100) than what I might choose as a person with low assets (20/50/20 or something like that).

So, in a nutshell, I believe I will pay quite an heavy insurance premium, maybe $500 per month, if I lease a new car like the Hyundai Sonata 2011. If I purchase the same car, and reduce insurance cover, I will only pay $250 or so.

Therefore, does it make sense to purchase a new car? I will likely take financing with help of someone's credit guarantee.

Or should I simply buy an old car for $5000 or so and drive it for an year till I build up my 'driving history'?

Please let me know if this is the wrong forum thread to post this question.

Thanks!

backy

Welcome to the USA!

If you buy the car with cash, you can have whatever collision and comprehensive coverage you want on it. You can have NO collision and comprehensive coverage if you choose. But most (if not all?) states require basic liability coverage on cars. You must show proof of insurance when you license the car. So you cannot avoid insurance on any car you drive.

If you buy the car using a loan, as you say you plan to do, the lender will require you to have collision and comprehensive coverage on the car. So you will not save anything on insurance compared to leasing.

You should be able to get insurance for much less than $500 a month unless you have a terrible driving record.

Your best bet to save money is to do what you said... buy a low-priced used car, with cash. You will save money on car payments and save money on insurance. Also, try to get your driver's license as soon as possible.

orlando_m

Thanks Backy.

Are you saying that financing companies ask for the same insurance cover on a loaned car as on a leased car? I had thought I could choose the cover if I bought the car (albeit on finance).

From what I saw on geico / progressive websites, the premium goes up or down depending on the coverage for driver, property, bystander - it's required to be 10/20/10 in Florida but it'll be at least 100/300/100 if I lease the car.

Collision and Comprehensive don't have that high an impact on the insurance premium.

That's why I was wondering - what's the best way to reduce car insurance premium.. I don't have any driving history in US, so that's why I'll get stuck with a 'new driver' penalty on the premium, I guess that will go away with time.

Thanks for your time again.

backy

When you borrow money to buy a car in the USA, the lender retains title to the car until the loan is paid in full. They dictate what minimum insurance coverage you must have on the car. They want to protect their asset.

The best way to reduce the insurance premium is buy a cheap car, with cash, that requires no collision or comprehensive coverage, and you only need to have the minimum liability coverage required by law.

Kirstie_H

As backy said, welcome to the US!

I have helped several new immigrants make purchasing decisions, and agree with backy that you should buy an older vehicle with cash to reduce your insurance premiums, and also to not go through the trouble of getting someone else's financial guarantee.

You don't have any bad credit or good credit - just no credit. This is good in the sense that you can build up from "no credit" faster than bad credit. Same with driving history. During the year you are driving the older vehicle, make sure to do stuff that builds up your credit "presence" in the US. If you can get a credit card, use it to buy things, as long as you can pay off the balance every billing cycle.

Good luck, and if you need recommendations on good vehicles in the $5000 price range, let us know - our members are always happy to help spend other people's money.

kuyaromeo

Ok, so I have been looking for a specific car . . Black, 2010 or 2011 used Cadillac SRX AWD with NAV. Not easy to find . . . the NAV part . . many of the models are AWD w/o NAV or FWD with . . so it has been hard to find one that is in my price range.

Dealer nearby calls me today and explains that there are a few of them available on the Auction, and they can pick one up, but they would need me to put a deposit on the car in order to get it. Basically he explained that they currently have 2 used SRX's on their lot and just cant afford to go get another without a deposit.

I don't mind putting a small deposit, of say $500 . . but is this normal? If it is normal that's fine . . how much is too much?

orlando_m

Kirstie, Backy, this is very helpful of you, thanks!

What would be the best buy in the $8-10K range? I'm assuming I'll need to spend another $2K for tax, tag, title and insurance. Do dealers have 'delivery fees' and other such fudgy add-on charges for pre-owned cars as well?

As an newbie, I'm afraid of getting duped by a dealer re the quality of the vehicle I purchase, that's why I'm wondering if the extra insurance premium will be worth the peace of mind that a new car brings.

orlando_m

On the 'dealer dupes me' front, is it any better to purchase a used car from an authorized brand name dealer, or to go to one of the shops that deal only in used cars

plekto

The best used vehicles come from private party/individuals as you can see history of service and repairs, paperwork, and also see the person and their lifestyle. ie - A car in an upper-middle class area of town that's in a well kept-up household is likely to be far better maintained than something that's in a squalid parking structure in a bad area of town. You also avoid rental vehicles by doing this. Trade-in values are terrible for most people so they'll be happy to get low Blue Book value for their car - it's more than the dealer will give them and thousands less than the dealer will gouge you.

Factors to consider:
1: you want the other guy to eat as much depreciation as possible.
2: You want a midsize upper-middle range vehicle with a V6 engine. These are solid and safe cars that are designed to last 200K miles or more.
3: You want something less than 6-7 years old if possible.

This combination of factors unfortunately leads to a problem where European and Japanese vehicles often are poor choices. They hold their value too well and anything midsize typically costs well beyond 8-10K But it's great for domestic vehicles. (GM and Ford)

A typical vehicle would be a 2005 Buick LeSabre. It's a pretty decent vehicle, nearly indestructible, and has all the features that you want that typically are hard to find or impossible to get in a budget car.

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listin- - - - gId=65457727
This is typical. Almost certainly owned by an elderly person with this sort of mileage and one owner. Asking $10900, would almost certainly accept $10K. (dealer probably is offering $8K)

You could buy this and hardly spend a dime on it in the next ten years. Leather, tons of features, premium audio - it's worlds better than even a new Civic or Corolla, because, well, it cost almost twice as much new and should be a better car.

robr2

Basically he is offering to go get you the car you are looking for and will expect you to buy it or forfeit your deposit.

qbrozen

sounds acceptable.... but of course the contract will have to specify "pending buyer's inspection." You'll also want to land on an approximate price first. You don't want to help the dealer out of a mistake if they pay too much for the vehicle at auction.

backy

What kind of vehicle are you looking for? There's so many choices.

If you can give us some idea of what is important to you, it would help us to recommend something. For example, in these days of $4 (and soon $5) a gallon gas, many people are looking for fuel-efficient cars. But others want a larger car, or maybe an SUV or minivan instead of a car. Also, what kind of equipment does the car have to have? Or are you just looking for basic transportation?

qbrozen

While Plekto makes a good point about a maintained car being available private party, the pitfall there is that you have no buyer protection. If you purchase from a dealer, you have recourse if you buy a lemon (check your state's laws on this matter).

Your fees will vary greatly by state as well. For instance, here in NJ, I'd be paying 7% tax, about $285 DMV fees, and about $200 doc fee. So on a $10k car, you are talking about ~$1200. Any fees beyond that should be questioned.

You should definitely consider a certified pre-owned car. Many come with a warranty that meets or exceeds the warranty on a new car. Finding a CPO car in your pricerange may be tough, though. It would definitely be something lower on the food chain, like a Hyundai Accent, Nissan Versa, Scion, or whatever that small Toyota is.

orlando_m

Gbrozen, Plekto, thanks for your inputs.

I would prefer a dealer than an individual, because I assume a dealer has lower incentive to hide a car's problems and 'dupe' a buyer as it's not just a one-time deal for him.

I'm looking for a mid-size to large sedan that has adequate safety features. My daily commute is only 6 miles, so mileage is not that important. I'll likely drive on the weekends, or sometimes carry friends/relatives who visit my town for the rides, so the bigger the car, the better it'll be.

If anyone has recommendations for a good dealer around Orlando - I'll be grateful.

I assume it's standard advice to begin engaging dealers over the internet first? Or should I go get a couple of test rides to get a feel of what I'd like to buy - brand wise, and then start the internet rounds?

Kirstie_H

Hm... I think many people would disagree with you about private party vs. dealership. There are as many bad dealerships as there are bad people.

You will definitely need to go look at vehicles on the lots and take some test drives to find a vehicle that you like. There are just so many options. That's the fun part. Most of the time, you can get just as good a deal in-person as you would using the internet.

I recently bought a used Ford Escape for around $7,000, and I love it! It is a small SUV so it doesn't guzzle gas that much. I also drive very little, so that was not most important. I wanted some room, a little ground clearance, and my trim level offers 4x4 (which you probably wouldn't need).

As for dealership recommendations, while you are waiting to see if our members in here have any ideas, you can look at our dealership reviews from consumers:
http://www.edmunds.com/dealer-reviews/

qbrozen

The second option. Figure out what you want.

For a large reliable car, I suggest looking for a lightly used Ford Crown Vic/Mercury Grand Marquis/Lincoln Towncar. All the same vehicle in different levels of cushiness.

However, they aren't all that cheap. Even an '07 base Crown Vic with 50k miles is going to run you more like $11k.

An '07 Chevy Impala LS with 50k might just squeeze under your budget ceiling. I can't speak to their reliability, though. An '07 Taurus SEL would be around $9k.

orlando_m

The Taurus sounds very interesting, I'll look it up.

Kirstie, you're right about the dealership/people comparison, I'll look at classifieds as well.

How do I go about the tax / tag / title in a private purchase?

plekto

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listin- gId=64721759

This is what you get, though, from a dealer. Base model, no leather, no options... You know what that means...

Virtually 100% of all cars in this price range that are 4-5 years old will be ex-rentals. An ex-rental is many orders of magnitude riskier, dealership or not, than a private party and careful searching. Also, dealership cars in this price range will have 80-100K miles if they are not ex-rentals. And, worst of all, while there is a small bit of lemon law protection, no dealership will give you the old records. So you don't even know how often the oil was changed.

All for 2-4K more than a private party deal. Awesome! That's more than a whole new transmission will run you. You can find a perfect car at a dealer that's not a rental, but you'll drive yourself mad and spend 2-3 months doing so.

What you are looking for is something that basically an old wealthy man bought and died, got too old to drive any more, or traded to a fancier car. In Florida, this isn't that hard to find. This means three brands as well:

Cadillac, Buick, Mercury. You need to buy one that is not the base trim as that gets rid of 90% of the rental fodder. Keep the mileage under 50K.

note - my father is such a man - he bought a new CTS. His old Park Avenue at 15 years old still drives and operates nearly perfectly. At 6-7 years old, there's little to nothing to worry about on these cars. Same with a 6-7 year old Grand Marquis LS that's privately owned. Just be sure to get your mechanic to look it over and check to see that all of the receipts and records are there and you'll be fine with anything like this.

note 2 - That Park Avenue gets 5mpg better than a Grand Marquis. I've owned both and it's pretty much like comparing two nearly identical cars in terms of handling(or lack thereof - heh), size, and power. But not identical MPG.

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listin- gId=64833812
This is a much better bet. I doubt if your most anal mechanic will find much wrong with it. Most are just as thorough as any checkup at a dealership to certify something.