Purchasing Used Vehicles

beutndrkns

The trim is LE. I haven't had it looked at by a mechanic yet.

im_brentwood

Do that before you go anywhere with pricing. By all means do offer $6k.. but the #s I gave you were what we'd tell you to expect to get it if you owned it yourself ($5500-6k trade-in, dont take under $7k selling it yourself).

But if this Van has problems or has been in an accident, then $500 is too much. Don't even talk money until you find out what's wrong with it. Anyone who tells you that a 9 year old Van with 100K on it is free of problems is lying, you want to find out how much work it needs and when it will need it.

ronl3

I recently bought a car, and I'm very unhappy about how things went down. It's the day after, and I'm almost feeling shell-shocked. Seems I was the victim of something called "packing"... this is where the sales people get you to agree to handling a certain monthly payment to get you financed. The number they get you to agree to is a higher number than what it is actually going to cost you to purchase just the car. After they get you to say OK to this number, they pad your sales contract with a alot of extras to take you up to your "OK'd" monthly payment. In my case, it was an extended warranty and GAP insurance which added almost $3,000 to the amount I was financing. Never in the course of our discussions, did they ask me if these were things I wanted. They just showed up on the contract. Anyway, I need to get rid of these two things ASAP. I expect that if I go back to the dealer I'm going to run into a lot of resistance, and maybe even downright lying to get me to keep this insurance. Due to the fact the sale isn't even 24-hours old yet, the policies haven't been issued. Should I go to both vendors (First Extended Service Corp. on the 36-mo. warranty, and GM Gap on the Gap Insurance) and tell them I don't want the coverage before they issue? Or, should I wait till the policies are issued and then cancel? Anyone had any experience with this?

joel0622

If you do not go back to the dealer and re-contract then your payment will not go down. They will send the refund checks to the bank to lower the balance.

I didn't know there were still people out there packing payments to the tune of $3K anymore. Years ago it was a normal practice.

FYI read any contract before you sign it. I am not condoning the actions of the dealer, it is a crappy way to do business. Just saying that as an adult you are ultimately responsible for any contract you sign.

jan_sct06

Hello all. I am relocating to Chicagoland next Wednesday from a city and start work the Monday after; so I am looking to buy a car in the 3-4 days before work begins. I have been looking at Honda certified used cars and am wondering if it's okay to buy one without having an independent mechanic check the car. Since I'm new to the area, I don't know of any good mechanics; however, my boyfriend (who's helping me move in) and I both know next to nothing about cars. The Edmunds guide says a manufacturer-certified pre-owned car does not need to be checked by an outside mechanic, but other internet sources have suggested otherwise. What do you all think?
Many thanks in advance for the help!

stickguy

I would not worry about it as much if you are getting from a reputable dealer. it will also be under warranty, so if anything crops up, you will be covered. But, if you want to be sure, have it looked at. Maybe AAA can help you out?

On a side note, what Honda is this? Normally, you pay a lot for the CPO benefits, and Hondas are not normally good buys used.

it is quite possible thay you can get a brand new one for about the same money (maybe even less!) with the '07s having to get moved to make way for the '08s. Especially if you want an Accord.

In any case, make sure to check prices (look in the paper for advertised specials) on the new equivalent to the CPO you are considering.

jlawrence01

I would not buy any used car without a full independent inspection.

Having said that, are you sure that you'll be saving much by buying pre-owned? Chicago is a very competitively priced market where there are more than a few Honda dealers.

What suburb?

jan_sct06

Thanks to you both for your help! I am looking at 03 civic ex sedans that are at least 40,000 miles, priced around $13K, which I think is still better than buying new. However, I am definitely going to check out the new prices. I've read that Civics are much more popular than Accords, but I will give the 07 stock a shot.

As y'all suggested, I will also call around for nearby mechanics and talk to AAA (I am already a member!) to see if they can help.

I am going to be in Schaumburg but am looking at dealerships all over - Honda of Lisle, Community Honda, Planet Honda, McGrath Honda Hyundai, etc etc.

user777

CPO programs vary, and from what I've been led to believe, what work actually is done at a participating dealership to recondition a vehicle is well... uncertain.

definitely, for any used vehicle, i would be paying some independant to look a vehicle over. of course, i'd like to have that assessment done by someone i have some history and trust, but here's an opportunity to establish that history and trust.

yeah, i think i'd be looking at a new '07.

guss

A new 2007 Civic Ex will probably run you about $18k to $18.5k depending on how many they have left. Color choice at this point is very limited right now, but if you like beige you will find some good deals.

For $5k more I would take the warranty and be the first owner.

jan_sct06

Good to know, guss. Unfortunately, this is my first job out of college, I hate debt/loans, and I just don't think I should buy a car that costs more than $15-16K out the door... I guess I should start looking at sub-$15K sedans, but I also might sell the car in 2 years. So, we shall see.

jeffyscott

Not the question you orginally asked, but...if I was spending $15-16K on a car, I'd go for a new one. That is just me though, I have never been able to bring myself to spend a lot on a used car. For me it's either used for under $4000 or new.

I've recently seen ads for new 2007 Focus at about $10,000 including college grad rebate, maybe that is not as exciting as a 5 year old Civic and it would surely, at that price, not be equipped like the Civic EX, but still...

asafonov

Jlawrence posted here a month or two ago that he bought a new Corolla LE in Chicago for under 15k, not sure if this was OTD (included taxes and registration or not.) For $1500, I would take a 2007 new Corolla over a 3 (4?) year old Civic.

british_rover

I think I would get the Focus. They aren't bad cars at all and for a few thousand less then a Used Civic I think it would be a good deal.

Plus the Ford has that 100,000 mile powertrain warranty.

jeffyscott

No, it's GM with the 100K power train. But Ford's is 5 yr/60 K mi on the power train...for those who do not put too many miles, this is just as good as GM's 5yr/100K.

With regard to the original question on CPO, I don't see why one would need to have it independently checked out, don't you get a bumper to bumper warranty with CPO?

im_brentwood

I think I would get a year old Focus..... save $4k+++++

jlawrence01

I paid $13950 ($15050 OTD) for a brand new 2007 Toyota Corolla at Pauly Toyota in Crystal Lake, IL, 20 miles NW of Schaumburg.

And for the record, the Corolla was about $1500 less than what I could get on a similarly equipped Ford Focus at the local dealerships.

They are making some good deals on the Nissan Versa's and the local Nissan (M'Lady) dealer has some pretty good deals on '07 preowned Altimas.

I did NOT shop Honda at all.

british_rover

I knew it was five year something warranty. Probably doesn't cost hardly anything to extend it out to 100,000 miles on a cheap car like the Focus either.

jeffyscott

I think I would get a year old Focus..... save $4k+++++

Pretty sure no one is going to sell you a 1 year old focus for $6K.

im_brentwood

Nobody is going to sell you a brand new one for $10k either.. unless it's some unsaleable equipment combo.. like a 3-door base without air, power, seats, transmission...

jeffyscott

So that's what they are advertising at $10K, eh?

Still, they apparently are giving $3000 general rebates on these, plus $500 student...subtract that from invoice and you start at $11,500 for SE sedan (add ~$700, if you want automatic). I could be wrong, but I just don't believe you will be able to buy a one year old SE sedan for $7500 (or $8200 for automatic).

And Edmunds agrees with me .

jan_sct06

Thanks so much to all of you for the advice! One reason I was thinking of buying a used car is so the insurance premiums could be lower, but just comparing quotes on esurance, geico, etc. it looks like the Civic would cost more to insure in some cases (vs. a new 07 Hyundai Accent, which I'm considering). Elsewhere in the Edmunds forums someone said that Ford Focuses are more expensive to insure because a large proportion of initial buyers were young, aggressive, accident-prone.
Two primary concerns of mine, in addition to cost, are safety (a good car + ABS) and resalability. I might move back to a city in a couple of years and want to be able to sell the car. That is another reason I wouldn't get a Focus (and maybe shouldn't get an Accent). I am definitely going to explore some of the new car deals, though!

suydam

I personally wouldn't want a Focus, no matter how cheap it was. But I agree with some posters about investigating the Corolla or even a Nissan Versa. Generally insurance costs are lower on a new car, even if it costs more.

It's also important to recognize that tossing around numbers like, oh well, what's another $2k, actually matters to some people on a budget. An extra 2 grand can mean a car payment that's just a little too high. So I see the rationale for a used Civic, and they are great cars. A CPO Civic is probably a pretty safe bet. Most important is not getting yourself into a car that's beyond your comfort zone cost-wise.

cccompson

A late model Civic (especially a CPO) is about the worst used car value in the universe because of its very high price.

jeffyscott

It's also important to recognize that tossing around numbers like, oh well, what's another $2k, actually matters to some people on a budget. An extra 2 grand can mean a car payment that's just a little too high. So I see the rationale for a used Civic...

The prices of used Civics are so high, that there are a number of new cars that can be purchased for the same or less cost. The Focus was just one example (personally, not being a fan of vague steering, etc.) I'd take one over a Corolla. So that is an alternative rationale for buying a new car, of whatever model. I would be definitely be biased toward getting a new car, perhapas with a bit less on it than a Civic EX, rather than a 5 year old 40,000+ mi. model, if I were looking to spend $15,000.

Another one that seems to come close to the used Civic price is Mitsubishi Lancer, looks like discount financing is available on that, too. Mitsubishi also has the long warranty, like Hyudai.

Civic would be an easy car to re-sell, so I can see that as a consideration, if the plan is to only keep it a couple years.

I have not found that insurance is less on a new car, it generally will be more due to the higher value. Insurance can be a huge factor in the car budget for younger drivers. My son could probably afford a new car, but the collision coverage would make his insurance cost about equal to the car payment on a cheap new car.

im_brentwood

Well,

Let's forget the college Grad rebate, it doesn't even apply to 5% of their sales. And remember, most people are not buying cars AT invoice, some are, but not most.

So let's take the $11,500, add back the $500 college rebate, the $500 or so over invoice that most dealers usually get for these (Or that's what my friend who owns 3 ford stores says). Add $700 for the automatic.

$13,200.

Oh, and a local Enterprise Car sales had "$8,995" on the windshield of 06 Focuses.. or is it Foci?

Cheap deal? Yes, but you can get em for $9k or so if you look.

And I could care less what TMV says.. go read RWTIV again and see how inaccurate it's gotten lately.

suydam

are often lower on new cars because many insurance companies offer a "new car discount" which essentially encourages you to buy new rather than used. Of course after a year you lose the "new car discount".

jeffyscott

Oh, and a local Enterprise Car sales had "$8,995" on the windshield of 06 Focuses

Well...when I look on the enterprise website, the cheapest is a 2005 for $10,499 and has over 40,000 miles.

Let's forget the college Grad rebate

I think the person who was looking at the used civic is a recent graduate, that was why I included that extra rebate.

im_brentwood

I'm just saying what I saw.. besides, I've seen them sell for close to that routinely on eBay.

And they may well be a recent college grad, but reality is, less than 5% of buyers of those cars are.

joel0622

The Focus warranty is 100K mile powertrain on all models up to the 2008, then it goes back to the 60K like the rest of our line up.

joel0622

BTW another great thing about the college grad program is that you are capped on the rate. You are guaranteed a max level 2 rate which on a Focus would be 3.9. Also if you opt for an 2008 model you could get the SYNC system which is cool as hell, we just got the first one in. It will sell us allot of cars I do believe.

british_rover

SYNC does look very, very good but it was stupid of Ford to design this really cool integration system then leave Volvo/Jag/LR out of the loop.

We all have our own voice integration systems that are good but don't look as good as SYNC. They are one generation behind the SYNC system it seems and don't integrate iPODS nearly as well.

joel0622

SYNC does look very, very good but it was stupid of Ford to design this really cool integration system then leave Volvo/Jag/LR out of the loop.

I agree 100%, the only thing I can figure is it has something to do with the on again off again sale of that auto group. With the exclusive Ford has on it for the next 1 1/2 years they were probably worried about putting it in those lines and then selling them.

baseballmom97

Our lease is up in two months on our 2004 Sequoia. I will be replacing it with a GMC Acadia. However, my husband is thinking of replacing his 1999 Acura RL sedan with 93,000 miles. He is hoping to sell this for $8,000 - $9,000. He really needs something that is good in snow and on ice because he is an ER doctor and works very odd hours when the snow plows aren't always out yet.

We are considering whether we should buy the Sequoia at the end of the lease. The residual value is $24,178. Leasing company will not negotiate on the price, however, after researching on Edmunds and some local Toyota dealership sites, this looks to be a fair price. The 2004 Sequoia will have 37,000 miles on it at the end of the lease. It will probably need all new tires as the tires are worn and the brake pads need to be replaced soon.

Should we buy the '04 Sequoia which needs all new tires and brake pads or should we lease a new car for him or an'06. We are considering either an Infiniti FX35 althought the gas mileage is only a little better or some other smaller SUV?

I know this is a lot of questions at once but we are really struggling with whether to buy or lease used or new. It seems that buying cars is a losing battle no matter what...

czaplowka68

HI EVERYONE,
I Just bought 2006 Subaru Outback…..from E-Bay! It was a salvage title vehicle. The seller described the damage as minor; no structural damage, no blown air bags…. I bought it, I went to pick it up, and it looked good so I drove away. At home a car mechanic had a look at it…..diagnose…….serious front collision; blown air bags, frame damage……WHAT TO DO!? Did the seller have a right to lie about the accident and the damage? What does the low say in case like this? Anyone? An idea what to do?

tidester

Did the seller have a right to lie about the accident and the damage?

Absolutely not! It's an outright misprepresentation. Your first clue about problems was that you were dealing with a salvage title so you already knew the Outback had some very serious problems. However, that does not give the seller the right to lie.

I don't know how much you paid for it or whether it's worth taking any legal action (I doubt the seller will be willing to take it back and refund your money) but,at the very least, your first course of action will be to inform ebay.com about the fraud perpetrated on you. This may help to avoid further victimization.

Good luck!

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

qbrozen

why would you think a salvage title = minor damage???

czaplowka68

Thank you for responding.
Do you know if the car dealer, who is selling salvage title car, is obligated by the low to revile the info about what was wrong with the car? Is there a low saying that he has to? I'm looking for the base for legal action.
regards

czaplowka68

I know, I know............

imidazol97

>your first course of action will be to inform ebay.com about the fraud perpetrated on you.

EBay could care less. They'll talk big but they don't want to cut off their fee payers.

qbrozen

I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV, but I don't think you have a leg to stand on. It was branded as salvage. I don't know what else needs to be disclosed in that case. Sure, a laundry list would be nice, but its not like he was hiding the salvage part of it.

I just hope you paid an appropriate price for such a vehicle.

tidester

I'm looking for the base for legal action.

Maybe a lawyer or two will chime in. Anyone?

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

british_rover

As long as the seller disclosed the salvage title then I think the buyer is out of luck.

greanpea68

WHAT TO DO!? Did the seller have a right to lie about the accident and the damage? What does the low say in case like this? Anyone? An idea what to do?

Need to know more information about how much you paid? Did the title say salvaged title. Did you do a car fax?

cccompson

Whether it's a good price on the Sequoia depends in large part on how it's equipped. If it's a loaded Limited, that's a good price. Tires and brakes are not all that pricey and you know the history of the vehicle. It will last forever and drink lots of gas. Only you can decide how important fuel ecomony is in your equation.

Sometimes there's some great leases out there - Volvo recently had one on their XC90 (maybe they still do).

Wish I could find a nice '99 RL with 93K for 8!

cccompson

And I'd like to see a screenshot of the ebay ad. It may still be available in a category called something like "completed."

Surprise, surprise, sellers of salvage vehicles always seem to minimize damage.

The fact that the bags were blown has zero effect in the grand scheme of things. The car does not have a "frame," as such, that could have been damaged.

tony5oh

Long post...
Sunday I looked at a 2002 Sonata GLS: pearl white, AT, 45613 miles, Carfax 1 owner. Nice driving and pretty clean car. It has a cracked taillight lens and the antenna was missing - dealer said he'd fix both and since it had been on the lot 45 days, he'd knock $500 off the price.
$7988 - $500 = $7488.
Today I had it checked out by a wrench - the 3rd brake light (LED) isn't working, one fog light is out, and the rear brakes need some work b/c the pass. side outboard pad isn't making full contact w/the rotor - the rotor's worn in the middle but not at each edge.
I tell them all the findings when I return from the wrench. They say they'll fix it all and take the car off to the shop they work with while I'm talking w/sale guy.
So I make sales guy my offer and at this point he kind of chuckles and says that they are a no haggle dealer. Price on the window is the price you pay. Salesmen are paid $200/unit and all their units are priced $800-1200 above their cost. He says they are hi-volume (100 units/mo) so it works out well for everyone.
This isn't what I expected b/c the guy I talked to on Sunday didn't say anything about no haggle and lowered the price w/o me saying a word about anything.
So the deal would have been:
7488
+295 (non-negotiable dealer prep which includes 30 day/2000
mile warranty)
+ 49 (fee for them to do the paper work)
+700 (tag, tax, title)

Edmunds shows retail $6995 and NADA was $7825 and this is in the Tampa Bay area of FL.

Who's heard of a "no haggle" used car dealer?
And
Does this seem like a fair deal?

I walked b/c the no haggle thing was blindsidingly unexpected - had a tough time believing it after the guy on Sunday failed to mention it.

qbrozen

yes, if I'm not mistaken, carmax is no haggle. (?)
And there is a fairly significant chain here in NJ that is also no haggle. But I have found their prices to be consistently above market value, so I don't deal with them. Sounds like you may have found the same type of place. And if Edmunds says retail is $6995 and they want $7500 and they claim it is priced only $800-$1200 above their cost, they are obviously full of it. (or they need a new buyer because they are WAY overpaying for their vehicles)

tony5oh

good point about carmax - I guess I just think of them differently b/c they are such a big chain. This place is an independent lot - never heard of a dealer like this being no haggle.
oh well...plenty other cars out there.

qbrozen

oh well...plenty other cars out there.

That's exactly the right attitude.