Nissan Titan vs. Ford F150

andy71

It's somewhat surprising that the Ford F150 has the smallest engine and the least horsepower compared to the Dodge Ram Hemi and Nissan Titan yet it out tows and out hauls both of them. Is Ford being a little optimistic about the truck's towing capability? Ford did a great job re designing the truck both interior and exterior wise but I think they should have added another 50 or so horsepower to get a leg up on the competition. While nobody buys a pickup truck for drag racing, it seems people like to brag about their vehicle's 0-60 time.

ANT14

Thr frame is much stronger in rigidity and torsion which allows it to tow more. If it had a V-10, it could easily tow 12000lbs. if need be.

bowke28

the payload on the model that does 9900 lbs. is over 2000 lbs. the increased payload allows for more tongue weight, which translates into additional towing capacity.

most 1/2 ton trucks can actually PULL well over 10k lbs. the problem is the available tongue weight, since trailer weight is about 10x the tongue weight.

twinbladesz

If your getting the King cab with no option and you weigh 150lbs then you can tow 9500lbs. But remember that is for a striped down truck. The thing is the trailers will get heavy pretty quick. Propane water your stuff etc. Go over to the board I was telling you about. It will give you good advice. They can pull the weight stopping it and going up and down hills will be another story. Ask Bowke about his experience when they hitched a pretty heavy trailer to a Titan. DO not overestimate the abilities of your rig.

nvbanker

The WSJ reports today that Nissan has a 122 days supply of Titans, and a 118 days supply of Armadas on the dirt right now. They're not exactly flying off the lots.

andy71

Well, truck buyers are intensely loyal to their brand and will take a lot for a new comer like Nissan to get a significant portion of the pie. Even though the Ford's engine is slightly less powerful than the Nissan's it is more refined and quieter. The exhaust note of the Nissan's engine could get tiring in a long drive not to mention the resonance issue.

nvbanker

Those Titans are loud, even outside the truck. Bucks the NVH trends.

keanec

Yup, they are loud, but no they don't get tiresome. I can barely here mine on the highway unless I decide to pass. Also, most people turn on the radio when they are driving and that covers whatever you can hear. My wife and I don't turn on any music or sound when we travel and we drive around 60-65 and we just don't hear/notice it. Most people who drive Titan say the same thing.

nvbanker

We sure hear Dr. C's Armada when they start it up on my street.... I don't think it's unpleasant though either. Sounds kinda nice, actually.

bearbrawn

My wife (and dog) always heard me pulling up in the driveway in my old Dakota.

The Titan is so quiet I can sneak up on them now.

But yes, when I jump on it at a Greenlight... it may sound intimidating to some.

iowabigguy

And the winners are??? Not Nissan, they are down the bottom of the pack with the VWs and Hummers. Not Ford, although they are rated higher than Nissan. The winner is Chevrolet with an average rating of AVERAGE. So much for Nissan's reputation. Hyundai is the surprising brand. It came in better than Toyota by 2 points.

kg11

It seems like only a few weeks since I was laughed off the board for suggesting that one would sell if the quality was good. (actually I think it was Kia)

GM must have come a long way since they built my '01 2500HD

nvbanker

I'm confused....Chevrolet was #1, with a rating of Average? Of course, longevity of a platform always increases initial quality rating, which is one reason Buick does so well. Chevy has the oldest truck currently in production. They should have it right by now. Also, they have the least innovative products, so no startling technology to cause glitches there.

dustyk

The point deviation from the latest JD Power Initial Quality Survey is a statistical dead heat for Acura (117), Chevrolet (119), Chrysler (120), Dodge (121) Lincoln (121), and Pontiac (122), all hovering around the industry average. Hyundai was at 102, Toyota 104. That's a statistical dead heat as well.

For those desperately in need of bragging rights and feeding ego a difference of one will mean something. Since this survey is a limited time period early in the production year, it too suffers from problematic statistical disturbances. For example, if one manufacturer had start-up, changeover, or supplier problems a later survey may have been kinder.

There are a few of things that should be recognized. The gap between "domestic" and Asian nameplates have diminished considerably in 10 years. In addition, the industry average of 1190 problems per one thousand units is far away from the average of 10, 20, and 30 years ago. In the sixties it was around 5000-6000 problems per thousand. How soon we forget.

Asian nameplates are obviously not a guarantee of quality success. Nissan and Mazda are unfortunate examples. Cadillac and Buick now have less initial quality issues than Toyotas.

From a company perspective GM's 120, Chrysler's 123, and Ford's 127 are also statistical dead heats.

Interesting for all the Chrysler mini-van bashing, they are second to Honda Odyssey. (Where's Toyota? Number 3?!)

Dodge heavy duty RAMs are number one followed GMC and Chevrolet HDs. (Where's the invincible SuperDuty?)

Ford Explorer Sport Trac and Ranger beat out Tacoma (Can't be true!).

Sonata beats out Alero and Malibu.

Dodge Stratus Coupe beat out Celica and Mustang (This is heresy!).

Tundra, F-150, Cadillac, F-150 Heritage (Where's the over-hyped Titan?)

There must be enough deflated egos to cause a wind storm.

Dusty

nvbanker

If our favorite wins, we gloat. If our favorite loses out, we disqualify the survey. Very interesting analysis, Dusty. Thank You

keanec

"...Since this survey is a limited time period early in the production year, it too suffers from problematic statistical disturbances. For example, if one manufacturer had start-up, changeover, or supplier problems a later survey may have been kinder...Tundra, F-150, Cadillac, F-150 Heritage (Where's the over-hyped Titan?)

Hey big guy, you use these two statements in the exact same post? Ya, I guess I am one of "those guys"!! But I expected these results and so do many people. I actually thought the results for Nissan and the Titan wasn't as bad as it could have been. Hey - new plant - 4 new vehicles, new employees, new state where cars haven't been made before, and a whole new product line! That is a recipe for disaster. BUT, I am not defending them I am just happy that I have a truck that does everything it is suppose to (IMHO better aver all than the rest)and I only have 1 problem with mine in the 1st month I have owned it and I am happy with that.

Besides, it is still a kick as truck!!!

nvbanker

You're happy with a problem the first month? Well, you're easy to please then. Must have been a former GM customer, eh?

keanec

"you're happy with a problem the first month? Well, you're easy to please then. Must have been a former GM customer, eh?"

Nope, haven't owned a GM since I had a saturn 10 years ago. If you reread my post you should understand why I am happy with one problem. 1. The truck has more to offer than all the rest and it delivers. 2. I am not stupid enough to think you can build a new factory, hire all new employees, design a whole new line of vehicles, then produce the damn things without any problems. I don't live in a dream world.

Most times when a company introduces a revamped product, the quality will suffer a bit a first. Ford did really well with the F-150, but the fact they picked up the quality on all their vehicles helped. There has been issues with the F-150. Now understand that Ford just re-engineered a product they have been making for years while Nissan, built a whole new product line with a new plant. Much more prone to mistakes.

Also, look at the way JD Powers measures its results and you will find that the average number of problems is over 1 problem per vehicle. They measure everything in problems per hundred vehicles.

By the way, the problem I have is I don't like the FM radio reception. Not a major problem in any book but I mentioned it because others have the same problem. I also knew about the radio issue before I bought so I was prepared.

dustyk

>>>Hey big guy, you use these two statements in the exact same post? Ya, I guess I am one of "those guys"!! But I expected these results and so do many people. <<<

Please read my post carefully. It sounds as if you missed the main point of it.

In the now defunct "Titan vs. Dodge RAM" discussion, that portion of the Titan "we are better than you" crew made quite a point about the presummed superiority of Titan's assembly and component quality just because it's a Nissan. The underlining message is that words driven by juvenile male-ego can never be taken back, they live as historical testiment to the foolishness of making assumptions.

If you were not part of that truculent little kiddie car club population, and for the moment I figure you weren't, you have no need to be sensitive.

Dusty

nvbanker

The whole post. I totally got what you were saying. But, consider this: Nissan sets itself up for some criticism by being of Japanese decent. So, we expect perfection from their vehicle, new or old. We shouldn't, but we do. So when you have "just one problem in the first month", we're amused, and not impressed. It also presupposes that you'll have another problem the second month, maybe.

Ford, OTOH, is of course, the worst vehicle made in the world, so we expect total crap from them, and on a new introduction, we expect 1 problem per day. Fix or repair daily, right?

It was fun to crank you, anyway. Enjoy your Titan, and keep us informed. But let me tell ya, your "only had 1 problem the first month" wouldn't be a good slogan for Nissan to use, so don't expect them to contact you about doing a commercial for them. Nor will it entice more people to buy the already slow selling truck.

kg11

It didn't have any problems in the first month but it's a P.O.S. It took 3 months for the Allison trans to suffer catastrophic failure. The second trans didn't make it to my house. The leather seat came unstitched in the first year. The engine knocks. The speed sensor failed. The cam position sensor failed. And now the third trans don't like to downshift in hot weather.

I've finally ruled out the Titan and the only two left on my list are F150 and F250. I don't anticipate any problems in what will be my first Ford P.U.

ANT14

Kg, New F-250 HD coming out towards the end of this year. Newly styled inside and out, as well as upgraded 3V versions of the 5.4L V8 and 6.8L V-10. New 5 Speed Torq-shift automatic, improved 6.0L Powerstroke Diesel.

In case you wish to wait a bit for that....

keanec

I agree with you, but consider that Toyota as a whole had the best ranking in JD Power with a ranking just over 100 problems per 100 vehicles, or said differently, just over 1 problem per vehicle in the first three months. Looking at that, I figure if I don't have any problems in the next two months, I am doing fine no matter how people perceive it. There are Titan owners who are getting many problems and there are some getting zero. They had some (and have more)bugs to iron out. You might call them a Japanese manufacturer, but the Titan is more American than any of the other FS trucks.

I am not very photogenic to be in a commercial anyway!! :-)

I will/do enjoy it! I think it was an awesome first attempt by Nissan and although they can fix some things, so can every other full size truck manufacturer. I think if you look at the strengths/weaknesses of each of the full sized trucks you will find that the Titan is right there with the rest of them. What put it over them for me and others was two main things.

1. All the little extras (Utility trac, tailgate lights, storage box, etc... you can go on and on with all the things Nissan added that others haven't)

2. The fun to drive factor! It just makes you feel different. I drove all the trucks (except Toyota) and none of the others touch the Titan in the fun to drive catagory; not even the Dodge Hemi.

derykf

Couple of months in I still haven't found anything to make me regret the decision to buy the Titan. Having owned Ford's and Chevy's in the past, I never attracted as much interest from people on the street/parking lots as I have with the Titan. I think by the end of the year Nissan will hit its sales target of 100K units.

kg11

I can wait

ANT14

KG, Here's a link to the ordering guide, which will give you some ideas of packages, equipment, engines, toys, etc.

http://www.fordaxz.com/pdf/2005.F250.OG.pdf

It's in PDF Format...

nvbanker

Ok, on the fun to drive factor, I can agree. The Titan is a very nice driver in every respect. One reason I like it was that it fit me like a Ford does, and was at least as much fun to drive. It reminded me of a Ford, actually. I'm sure that's no accident. Ford has been the gold standard of trucks for a long time.

bowke28

here in a ford town, nothing can even come close in sales volume...not even chevy...but the 4 dealers here in louisville combined to sell more titans than many larger cities without an auto factory.

jrc346

I just read about the new 6.2L V8 for the F-150. Do you have any details, like when it is coming out. Whether or not it will be offered in the Expedition or Superdutys?

ANT14

Yes, the in-house name for that project was/is Hurricane.

No set date yet because currently supplier's are bidding for the project, so much will depend upon how quickly they get their act together.

Look for around 350HP and torque of well over 400TQ. If anything, it's power ratings could match that of the 6.0L Powerestroke diesel. Expect the usual VVT, ETC, gadgets as well.

As for which vehicles receive it, that has yet to be finalized. But yes the F-series range will get it. This year the Expy is coming standard with the 5.4L 3V version. The 4.6L is no longer being offered. Could the 6.2L find a home there? It does fit.... It'll probably NAVIgate into another vehicle first. Details still being worked out.

bowke28

in the next couple years will get an extended version...like the 1/2 ton suburban. maybe for that truck??

ANT14

Yes, that is a possibility as well.

mickeysmstr

I visited this site about 6 months ago when I was getting ready to purchase a new truck. I did visit both Nissan and Ford dealerships (refused to consider a chevy, toyota is not fullsize, and dodge looks a little cheap inside IMO). I went with the F150 Lariat SuperCrew - and I can say after 6 months and 6500 trouble-free (and squeak-free) miles, I know I made the right decision (for me). I've had many oohs and ahhs over my dark green machine and the ride is fantastic. Power with the 5.4L is fine, even when towing my 20' Chaparral. The only think I'd have to knock about this package is that Ford saw fit to equip the new Expeditions with Sirius-compatible radio, but apparently not their higher volume pickups. Go figure?
Regardless, I'm a happy camper and expect to remain one for many miles to come. Congrats to Ford on this redesign.

lions

are the fords made in Mexico or USA, think twice before going south

ANT14

Depends on the model, most are US made... Focus production is being consolited to Michigan, to make space for the (new midsize sedan formally called Futura). Freestar/Monterey made in Oakville Ontario, example. There's 3 F-150 factories, one of them is in Mexico.

bowke28

makes the heritage right now, and will be retooled to make the 6-cyl. manual xmission models.

aspesisteve

I test drove the '04 F150 STX super cab and the Nissan Titan XE King Cab today. Both seem like fine trucks, but I will choose the F150. Why?
The F150 had a Cadillac drive, which I prefer - very quiet and felt roomier to me, plus I like the looks just a bit better.

The Titan was better at doing 0-60, no doubt, but the ride was relatively harsh when compared to the F150. When I told the Nissan guy I was going to see the F150 (I already had), he of course wanted to see if I would negotiate without seeing the F150 - he had some slimey sales veteran tell me how the Titan has much better re-sale value, better gas milege and more room than the F150. It seemed pathetic that the guy had to give me a bold face lie when faced with competition. I had to wash my hands after meeting him. That's not a knock on the truck, just another slimey sales person.

Tomorrow I will pick up my F150 - if you want to see what I paid, you'll have to read about it on the F150 board.

bowke28

actually, everything he said was correct. i wouldnt bash a competitor to get a sale, but he DID tell you the truth.

twkuehne

I have to aggree with the last post. Everything you said the Nissan sales person tell you was completely factual. Nissan resale value is much much higher on comparable vehicles than Ford (or any other "domestic" manufacturer). That could be due to the fact that a large presentage of Ford's are made in Mexico and the ones that aren't made there have most of the components shipped from there. Nissans, for the most part, are American Designed, Engineered, and Manufactured. Gas mileage is slightly better on the Titan. And finally, there is in fact much more room in King and Crew Cab Titans than the comparable F-150's. I also find it interesting that you think that Titan is rougher as it exhibits much less nose dive and body lean (F-150 is getting killed in all magazine comparisons on performance). Lastly, I find it interesting you called the sales person a sleazy liar when he told you the truth, especially in light of the fact that YOU LIED TO HIM about having already looked at the F-150.

ANT14

"Nissan resale value is much much higher on comparable vehicles than Ford (or any other "domestic" manufacturer). That could be due to the fact that a large presentage of Ford's are made in Mexico "

Resale value has nothing to do on where a vehicle is manufactured. It's because there's so many on the road, that it doesn't create a "gotta have it" demand for it. And a large percentage of F-Series trucks are made in the U.S., not in Mexico. Mexico just manufactures 1/4th of it, where as it's designed, engineered, built for, and profits go to, An american company HeadQuartered in the U.S.

twkuehne

I have to aggree with the last post. Everything you said the Nissan sales person tell you was completely factual. Nissan resale value is much much higher on comparable vehicles than Ford (or any other "domestic" manufacturer). That could be due to the fact that a large presentage of Ford's are made in Mexico and the ones that aren't made there have most of the components shipped from there. Nissans, for the most part, are American Designed, Engineered, and Manufactured. Gas mileage is slightly better on the Titan. And finally, there is in fact much more room in King and Crew Cab Titans than the comparable F-150's. I also find it interesting that you think that Titan is rougher as it exhibits much less nose dive and body lean (F-150 is getting killed in all magazine comparisons on performance). Lastly, I find it interesting you called the sales person a sleazy liar when he told you the truth, especially in light of the fact that YOU LIED TO HIM about having already looked at the F-150.

twkuehne

Ok. I guess I needed to write a book to explain everything. Build location does give a hint at quality. Quality and reliability does in fact effect resale. And actually you also were only partially correct. The biggest drop in resale comes from rebates. Ford (and other domestics) are notorious about 3, 4, 5, and even 6 thousand dollar rebates. If a new car sells for 5 grand under sticker than the previous model years of the vehicle on preowned lots drop in value for obvious reasons. Nissan doesn't do this. Quality, Reliability, Value are the reasons Nissan has such high resale. Built in the USA (not may be built in US or south of the border) is just a plus. Helping the American economy is definitely a good thing

aspesisteve

I don't know how you can say the Nissan Titan has a better re-sale value than the F150 when you consider it's in it's first year of production. Has there ever been a Titan re-sold?

Also, if you consider I got $7,000 off MSRP, which is commonly advertised in my area, I have greatly enhanced my re-sale value. It put both products similarly equipted within a couple hundred dollars.

As for gas milege - there's no difference when comparing the the 5+ litre engines.
 I got the 4.8 litre engine so my milege will be slightly higher.

As for roominess - again, it was not truth but fiction.

I would give kudos to Nissan for having a more compact design from bumper to bumper. The bed is 4 inches shorter and you loose an inch in the back seat vs. the F150 short bed, but the truck was 11 inches shorter overall.

ANT14

" Build location does give a hint at quality. Quality and reliability does in fact effect resale."

So because some are built in Mexico, people will perceive it as being low quality?

BTW, the F-150 is rated by JDPOwer's as most dependable full size truck. So if that's one factor, the F-150 is ahead on that fact. Edmunds also chose the F-150 as a Best Bet in trucks for used vehicles.

bowke28

dude...you are SO far off here. ill address your mistakes one at a time...

1. "Also, if you consider I got $7,000 off MSRP, which is commonly advertised in my area, I have greatly enhanced my re-sale value."

WHAT?!?!?! im not even gonna respond, because even the most die-hard blue oval guys know better.

2. "As for gas milege - there's no difference when comparing the the 5+ litre engines. I got the 4.8 litre engine so my milege will be slightly higher."

actually, the titan 5.6L is rated 2 MPG better in the city and 1 MPG better on the highway than the 5.4L from ford. the 4.6L (i see how much you know your truck) is rated the same as the 5.4L.

3. "As for roominess - again, it was not truth but fiction."

shall i post measurements? the only way there could be more room in the F150 is if you got a split bench seat, which you probably do with the base engine. the titan has an optional center console in front, which eliminates some volume...but if you compare apples to apples, you are plain wrong.

4. "The bed is 4 inches shorter"

only if you got a supercab long bed.

5. "the truck was 11 inches shorter overall."

again, only comparing a king cab titan to a supercab long-bed f150.

also, before you try to counter my facts, sir, please note that i sell both nissans AND fords. stop while you are still ahead.

kg11

The Titan I test drove on sunday had the same mpg rating as the F150 FX4 I bought today, 14/18

bowke28

i was looking at 2wd.

4wd are about the same.

aspesisteve

-Sales people in denial
this is why a customer will lie to you.
it can be pretty ugly getting off the lot when you tell a car salesperson you going to buy the competing product.

so you've conceded the interior space and the gas milege. The standard, or short bed on the F150 super cab is 6.5', while the Titan XE KC is LESS.

Care to comment more about the stellar re-sale value of your Truck the first year it's on the market?

kg11

I told the salesman (a nice guy) exactly why I would be buying a Ford. I don't like the suspension or steering on the Nissan. In fact I hated the steering. As I was shaking his hand his managercame scurrying out of the office wanting to no why I was leaving without a truck so to be polite I told HIM what I didn't like about the truck. It's a good first effort and maybe with a little input they'll do better next time. He asked if there was any way to change my mind.As he followed me off the lot he offered me discounts, magazine articles to prove I don't know what I like, and finally begged me to take a stack of his cards to give to my friends and family as I was walking away.The dealership is a national chain and won't have the oppertunity to sell me anything in the future.

iowabigguy

Exactly why is a vehicle made in America better than a vehicle made in Mexico? I that based on fact or racist perception?

Now I can see someone saying an American made car is better for the American economy than one made in Mexico.

I remember when people used to say the same thing about Japanese products.