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Nissan Titan vs. Ford F150
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Comments
"The F-150 is only the #1 selling truck because of brand loyalty, not because it's the best".
Those same people will say;
"The Camry is the best selling car because it's the best".
Maybe Ford has earned some of the bigotry they face. Certainly they have been inconsistent over the years, but they have also put out some great product and changed the course of automotive history more than once. So far, I think Bill is making great strides to get back on course. I'm not selling my Ford trucks yet, and in fact, I'm dickering on a new Mountaineer for my wife as we speak. She looked at the Pathfinder, the Rx330, the Envoy, and the Durango - she likes the Mountaineer best, and the one we are coming to the end of the lease on has really been excellent. So, unless the deal sucks, that's probably what she'll get. It's up to her, you understand......:) But I agree.
Or were they both junk?
And does the quality of either of these really matter today?
Just read the following story from NY Times.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/27/business/27auto.html
However, also know that since Bill Ford Jr. has taken over as CEO, Ford has launched ALL of its lastest vehicles without a problem. Also The Escape and Focus are fixed (sources being JD Power and Consumer Reports) and are doing very well with quality and reliability. Again, this is not an attempt to change your mind, nor is it a personal stab at you. I just wanted to raise the possability that maybe, times are changing.
You said, "I don't have any ill feelings toward Ford neither do I have any true affection toward Toyota"...please...all you've done is "try" to bash Ford...every manufacturer has flaws and we could all post links to derogatory articles about each company...so what!...The F-150 is the best selling vehicle and all of your Ford bashing won't change that abit...I really hope you can deal with that
I have no problem with the Ford F-150 being the best selling truck. You just proved my point. Ford is a one horse show. The F-150 is the only reason Ford can barely keep their head above water.
That's innacurate. What facts back that up? Don't forget about the Mustang, Focus, Mondeo, and Escape. (just to name a few) Not to mention Lincoln, Mercury, Mazda, Range Rover, Aston Martin and Jaguar. Ford Motor Credit pulled in a record 1.8 billion last year. I guess all of that money must be from F-150 finances. Despite a bad 2002 for Ford in the States, Canada, U.K, have hardly missed a beat. Ford Russia has tripled business last year. Open your eyes up to the big picture.
The reason Ford trucks are the best selling truck for 22 years in a row is because they appeal the most to the consumer. That means it's a truck that offers the most for their money. It's a truck that can be put to work, and it has a reliable track record. People have been coming back to the F-Series for years. Why? Because people trust the F-series. Nobody is forced into anything, but if buying a vehicle is casting a ballot, we all know who wins.
BTW Toyota quality has gone down hill lately. My '75 Celica wes a great car. My '84 4X4 truck was awsome. The '95 Tacoma was pretty good, and my '03 Corolla is no better than a over priced Kia
The Ford Escape was last years best selling small SUV, while the Explorer was last years best selling mid-size SUV.
The Ford Econoline was last years best selling Full-size van, the Ranger was best selling small pickup, and the F-150 was the best selling truck and vehicle.
Woe are these days at Ford.
Between that and cash rebates how does Nissan respond?
thanks
Now, pertaining to corporate arrogance from an automaker, Nissan was mentioned by a statement Carlos Ghosn made.
Titled: Will success breed arrogance at Toyota? Only time will tell
http://www.detnews.com/2004/insiders/0401/10/c01-31225.htm
"So, I asked Nissan Motor Co. CEO Carlos Ghosn, what do you think of all these cars coming from Detroit?
“It’s a good start,” he replied simply. Then he extolled the virtues of his full-size Titan pickup truck as the best on the market and made pretty clear that Detroit’s ballyhooed “year of the car” doesn’t look as impressive as the local automakers think. "
AGG,
"Has anyone thought about how the soft dollar relative to international currency's has affected the full size pickup wars?"
Japan purposely undervalues their yen to increase it's profits on exports. Japan sold a record 20 trillion yen in 2003, a strategy that slowed the yen's rise against the dollar to around 10% for the year, and they have spent around 3 trillion Yen on interventions a week ago, to prevent the yen from sinking below 106 yen.
Japanese manufacturer's were profiting around $2000-3000 per vehicle because their government was braking WTO rules and kept yen low. Because this issue came up in the last WTO meeting, the world community is keeping a closer eye on Japan, while they are trying their hardest to keep the yen low, BUT it's going up....
Also you NYTimes link required me to create a membership to view your article. Sorry, but I don't care to sign up for that. Why don't you paraphrase what was so important for us?
BTW, you're right, the full size may not sell as well outside of the states, but you can bet the compact trucks do. Asia, south america, africa, they all love the Ranger. Anyway, you're most entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't make you right... :P
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BTW, I read the NYT article. In fact I get a copy of the New York Times free at work every morning ;-)
What I don't understand is what in there makes you think that Ford is doing so bad? Them turning a profit for the first time in two years? Bill Ford himself saying that the size of the company doesn't matter as long as they put out quality products? Or is it what is said at the end of the article saying how this (Toyota becoming #2 in world sales) most defiantly is NOT the end of the big three?
Just a couple of comments about all the above posts.
Ford is not dying! They have had some quality problems and Bill Ford is aware of it and is/has fixed it. At some point we might start seeing more mergers/aquisitions like Daimler-Chrysler only because there is a huge over supply of capacity in the world. Any of the Big six could be involved.
The F-150 is not the sales leader, IMO, as it is semantics to say the Silverado/Sierra isn't the same vehicle. The GM twins outsold the F-150 last year. So, from my perspective, GM is the full sized truck leader - Sorry all you F-150 people who keep on claiming it as #1. If you don't agree, fine, it is MY opinion and sales fact that GM sold more full sized trucks than Ford.
As to the F-150 being a good truck - I am sure it is. But, how much competition has it had? If you wanted a full-sized truck you bought A Ford, a GMC, or a Dodge, PERIOD. That changed in December when Nissan started selling the Titan and Toyota started selling a very limited Full size (Tundra DC). There just hasn't been anywhere near enough competition in this segment to say the F-150 is the most awesome vehicle because it sold so many. Look at the competition in Mid-sized cars - how many different kinds do you have to choose from?
I was a huge Ford fan until the mid 90's when they started having huge quality problems with the Windstars, Taurus's etc... I have been watching what Bill Ford is doing closely and I think he is going in the right direction, but only time will tell.
The last thing is Ford/GM/Chrysler is not in any danger from Nissan/Toyota in the near term of losing their sales leads. The total of all the f-series trucks sold last year was over 800,000. Many of those were 250s and 350s and configurations that Toyota and Nissan don't offer. Nissan and Toyota also don't have the capacity to put much of a dent in a market that had over 2.3 mil in sales last year. Down the road, who knows? If any of us do, we could make a fortune on the stocks!! :-)
Not everyone qualifies for 0%, in fact, a small percentage actually qualify for that amount... The profits are made on those who get a higher percentage based on other issues/credit report.
"Sorry all you F-150 people who keep on claiming it as #1. If you don't agree, fine, it is MY opinion and sales fact that GM sold more full sized trucks than Ford."
Yes if you count the Sierra and Silverado together, they did sell more than the F-150, BUT if you wish to tally it that way.. Then... The Taurus and Sable together, made the #1 seller, not the Accord or Camry. The Navi and Expedition is then #1 for fullsize SUV sales. The GrandMarquis/CrownVic/TownCar are then the best seller's for Fullsize cars. See the issue?
Yup I see the issue and I always have, but I still believe that any twins should be counted together. In that vein, the Taurus/Sable would qualify, but the Crown Vic/Town car wouldn't. The price points/options have to be close to be considered a twin. eg. the Armada and the new QX wouldn't be considered twins.
by the way, even counting the sable/taurus as one I don't think they sold as many as the Camry
According to who? That's why the industry doesn't count them if they share platforms. Just imagine if we were to count details such as those. For example, the Freestar uses a modified version of the Taurus, so could that be counted to? As in... what ARE the limits to where a platform strays from it's original.
Then if we do similar price points, then why stop at just price points when a Camry can flunctuate from $18K-30K ? Or even the Avalon, since it's built on a Camry platform, but has a few other modifications. Would the AudiA4 be counted onto Passat's platform tallies since it's almost in the same neighborhood in pricing, but JUST not quite since some Audi A4's can tally up to $40K, or maybe the much more expensive S4 version?
Would Ford's new Freestyle sales, be counted onto the 500/Montego totals since they share the same platform, but 2 are sedans, while another is a crossover? Could they be counted into the totals of the Volvo S60/S80/V70/XC70/XC90 since they all use Volvo's P2 platform?
Toyota's Matrix sales are tallied into the Corolla sales since they share platform, even though the Matrix serves a different purpose altogether. Yet the Honda Elements sales are not tallied onto the Civic's sales, even though they share the same platform, and the concept is also different.
So that raises numerous other issues and questions regarding individual sales, which is why the industry measures them by nameplate, and not platform sales.
ive owned 3 tempos, and had good luck with all 3. i own a 2003 focus, and so far its bulletproof. all the recalls were right after the initial launch. none for the last 3 model years.
anyway...about the chevy/gmc...yes, they are the same truck...but a GMC buyer wont buy a chevy and vice-versa. so if you stopped making one or the other, the sales #'s wouldnt exactly merge. the explorer/mountaineer/aviator are the same, but ford doesnt count them together.
Bowke - yes they might lose some sales, but it is more dealer related than GMC people hating Chevys. Up here people buy GMC/Chevy based on which dealer they like/ don't like. Period. It could be different where you are from but if it is, it shows buyer ignorance as they are the same vehicle. If GM removed all GMC dealers they would probably remove a large part of GMC sales. Convert the GMC dealers to Chevy (or vice versa), like Chrysler did with plymouth, and they would lose some sales, but not a large part.
Hey guys, these are just my feelings so take take a pill over them. I just don't think Ford should be touting so much about the F-150 being the best seller when there is a lot of other stuff they can strut about the F-150 :-)
And it is out job to knock some sense into you
If you did not want us to argue over your statement then you shouldnt have posted it on a very public message board lol
My point was, what exactly signifies as "twins"... Is it a price point, is it a change of a grill, is it having 2 doors less? There's alot of descrepencies when it's measured as twins. The F-150 is the best selling vehicle in the world, even if your twins are measured together.
But whichever method you use to classify them as twins and if such results come up with anything being higher selling than the F-150 and that is the result that makes you happy, then keep going with it.
If GM and Chevy really thought the Silverado could hold its own and get a #1 sales figure over te F-150, i am sure they would do so. They want that #1 sales figure, and if they can get it, they will...
Toyota is already thinking about long term. One result is the Toyota Prius. Lexus is coming out with the Lexus RX400H this, which will pair a V6 engine with the hybrid synergy drive. The combined drivetrain will produce 270 Hp, will get over 30 mpg, and go 0-60 in less than 8 seconds. If Ford ever can produce an SUV like that then they can legitimately claim they are trying hard. Ford cannot even play catchup let along recapture market share. What exactly do they have to offer? The Taurus oops I mean the Five Hundred? Freestar ( a rebadged Windstar with the same horrible engine)? FOUND ON THE ROAD DEAD sounds like a very good acronym for Ford. And one more thing; Ford Ranger is not the most popular pickup truck in the world. It is the Toyota Hilux (Tacoma). I have been all over Asia and I have yet to see a Ford Ranger. Halo cars like the GT or the new Mustang isn't going to improve Ford's bottom line.
So far I have seen NOTHING that you have said that has contributed one tiny BIT to this actual discussion. Just Ford bashing, and put downs. I suggest you learn some message board etiquette and/or get out.
Dogface5: You stated
"And I hate to say this but the "only" people who buy Ford are people who don't know any better."
Don't know better huh? Interesting, but a Taurus is a good value! My wife and I have had 5 generations of Honda Accords. They have been good cars, but we just wanted something different. Fords had treated us good in the past, so we went back. Seems like this discussion would be better in a forum similar to the "Return of GM's might. Any hosts out there know if such a discussion has been started yet?
Again, the mentioning of issues from decades ago is irrelevant, it's 2004, let's update a bit of history. Volvo's in fact where soooo good, that they decided to sell to Ford, so they could concentrate on their heavy-truck segment. While they were purchased in the black, Volvo had so-so reliability in the early 90's, and simply didn't have the resources to grow. Ford took over, and their reliability/dependability have both improved. While introducing new vehicles.
"Mazda is only one third owned by Ford, so your claim that Ford "owns" Mazda is a bit of an exaggerations. "
Uh, in Japanese company laws, if 1/3rd shares are owned by an outsider, it's WHOLELY owned. Mazda has a 1/4th interest and it wasn't till about a decade ago they upped and bought up to 33%, to wholely own it.
"I have been all over Asia and I have yet to see a Ford Ranger"
Not sure which villages you went to, but numerous cities I went to, I saw Ranger's...And they even have versions there NOT available in the U.S. Let's not forget Africa, and Latin America where they are also popular.
"Like talking to a Brick wall"
I agree... But at least the topic hhas moved along though, now I check the topic and see there's 10 new entries, whereas before it just died off...
As for taking things personally. I don't, do you? I think it just shows poor character when you say things like:
"you must be smoking something if"
"delusional state like you"
"FOUND ON ROAD DEAD" (purely childish)
"crackpot notion" Just added this one, thanks!
"do you know how to read?" and this one
Then you sound off a parade of gibberish about how Ford was dead yesturday. Furthermore, your claims are totally, and extremely outlandish with no factual support whatsoever. And that is why your posts don't bother me:-) I wont be able to convince you that Ford is recovering, but I am confident time will.
Yes, and unfortunately I'm able to read all the babble and mis-information your posting.
"Have you heard of a magazine called Consumer Report? Read the "New Car Preview 2004" and see who builds the most reliable cars."
So all your babble stems from Consumer Reports?? Are they your holy grail for all your automotive information, need to read a bit outside of the box to some real automotive sources. Example: Try WardsAuto, Detroit News, JDPower's, AutoWeek, R.L.Polk etc. NOT Consumer Reports, Car and Driver, nor MotorTrend, which are questionable resources in the industry. They make you, as well as many other's incorrect arm-chair critics.
"if you own one third of a company that means you don't own 2/3 of the company."
Uh because, the other 2/3rd are NOT owned by a single entity, cept thousands of other's. So if you have .000111% vested interest, while one WHOLE owner has 1/3rd, he just out-owned you.
"That is precisely why the number of Mazda sales isn't added to the number of cars sold by Ford Motor Company"
Incorrect, Ford doesn't add them to their Ford tally, just like they add their PAG numbers together, and tally that seperately. Because they can, wish to, want to, care to.
"Ford Rangers weren't meant for the African Safari. "
Says WHO, Consumer Reports? It's all about market concentration and how certain products are available, or manufacturered, or imported. If that's NOT a market Ford wishes to concentrate, then naturally you won't see much of them there. Ford is concentrating in China, Indian and SouthEast Asia which their market share has increased in those areas.
"Next time check the facts before posting something"
I think it's YOU who need to check your facts before you post your information, and I hope you verify them through creditable sources/sites like I have just displayed, and NOT from your Consumer Report magazine.
best seller by default when GM and chysler quit making their fullsizes.
Finally, and on Topic, the Titan is a hellova truck from a performance standpoint. But I can't stand the spartan interior, and the exterior is so so. It's not yet going to drive me from Ford. Maybe someday it will, but not now.
If this makes me stupid, dogface, so be it. Enjoy.
If this means I drive bad cars, motown. Whatever.
They're damn good bad cars.
Still a Ford man afterall I guess.