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Owe more than it's worth... I'm upside down and I can't get up!

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Comments

  • alteredwithinalteredwithin Member Posts: 2
    I can pay I just don't want to. I want another car lol but from what you are telling me I am stuck with this I don't need my paycheck getting garnished. Thanks for the information you are the only one that was able to give me a straight answer.
  • occupant1occupant1 Member Posts: 412
    Maximas have good resale value. Keep an eye on the TMV for your car, check it every month or two. And when your cash in hand equals the difference between what you owe and what you can sell it for, you're ready to get out from under the payments.

    Another idea is to list your car for sale as "take over payments" and possibly someone with less than stellar credit can get your bank to accept them and pay off the note, leaving you free and clear.
  • pch101pch101 Member Posts: 582
    I don't need my paycheck getting garnished.

    This may not be a factor. Reposssession laws vary by state as to whether a "deficiency judgment" (a judgment that requires you to pay the amount above the value of the vehicle in the event that it is repo'd) is permitted. Read the link below from the Federal Trade Commission for more information.

    That being said, I would either keep the loan current or else try to sell the car on a TOP basis, as was suggested above. Perhaps as an alternative, you can refi the loan or otherwise find a way to reduce the interest rate, if that happens to be high. Whether or not you are upside down, the lender is not going to hesitate to take your car if you stop making payments.

    You don't want a repo on your credit rating. That will be an expensive mistake that you will literally pay for with all of your future borrowing costs just as long as the repo is on your credit report.

    FTC link
  • grandtotalgrandtotal Member Posts: 1,207
    I can pay I just don't want to

    I'm sure you don't, and you shouldn't have to. Just drop the car off at the dealership and post the keys in their mailbox, they'll take care of the rest.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    I can pay I just don't want to. I want another car

    Wow. Just .... wow!

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    LOL!

    best advice yet.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    best advice yet.

    Anytime now I expect to read a post from someone who owes $25K on a Chevy Aveo...
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    Anytime now I expect to read a post from someone who owes $25K on a Chevy Aveo...

    and doesn't like the color, so they HAVE to get something new ... but want a lower payment.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I had someone not long ago that owed almost that much on a two year old Montero.

    They bought it when Mitsibishi was doing their Zero down zero payments for X amount of months and then they rolled in a few thousand dollars of negative equity... They had only been making payments on it for 18 months I think and hadn't even paid off the taxes/registration fees yet.

    It would have been funny if it was not so sad.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...not only burned Mitsubishi but a lot of folks who thought they could get ahead by not making payments on a vehicle for a year. I heard that Mitsu's finance arm had to do a lot of repos. But hey, they were briefly the most popular cars in many of Philly's marginal neighborhoods!
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    The same is true with regard to those 6/12/24 month no interest appliance and electronics deals. I forget the exact percentages, but an overwhelming majority of people don't pay it off during the promotional period. We've taken advantage of those deals numerous times(TV, fridge, dishwasher, washer/dryer, ZTR mower), but we always paid them off before any interest accrued.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,285
    I can pay I just don't want to.

    That was the vibe I got, I just wanted to be sure...
  • sky23213sky23213 Member Posts: 300
    Ditto.
    This thread gets a desperate posters every now and then that are quite the same. I remember the gal that had to have a SUV at the end of 2005, when the gas prices were attached to a booster rocket and Metro Transit and bike shop were raking it in. Then a few months later she could not afford to put gas in it.
    I have no pity towards them any more.
  • yusuf1yusuf1 Member Posts: 17
    Hello, all. My mom got a 2006 Chevy Malibu last July. Well, just last month she had complications from heart failure and had to have triple bypass surgery. Of course now she's in recovery and probably won't be able to work to keep the car.
    Suggestions? We know the finance company wants the money, not the car. Is there any way out of this short of repossession?
    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Yusuf1, talk to the finance company, explain the situation and if it is a prime lender they will work with you. Just make sure that any promises to pay are kept. If they work with you and you fail to hold up your end they will come and pick up there car. Finance companies are very understanding with folks who are straight up with them and hold up there end. They justhave no compassion for those who feed them a line just to get another 30 days of driving without paying.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I have had a time or two of having to do pretty much exactly what joel0622 describes. I've got a few physical problems that will lay me low for a while and I am the one at home that writes the checks and keeps the finances. In early 2002 I was pretty incapacitated for a month. Even when I could get around and do a little that payment didn't seem on the rush list when I was busy with recovery. I made a call to the lender on my car loan and explained the situation. They could not have been nicer about it. I proposed just skipping a month and extending teh loan out a month. No problem.

    My one other experience like that in my memory was a credit card that has an insanely low interest rate from quite a while ago on a transferred balance deal. Again I was ill and missed a deadline. This resulted in a late fee and the great interest rate turning into an ugly one. My wife made one phone call and they took off all fees and brought the interest rate back down. This was not a company normally known as nice guys. If you are straight with them they will usually make something work.

    Just a note - if your credit stinks and you have a history of late payments or defaults the above will not hold true.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    One thing to think about.

    Is your mother going to lose this car anyway? In other words, she is not going to be able to get the money to make payments? And, there is noone that will take the car and take over the payments? (Be very careful here. You don't want someone else to physically have the car, not make payments, and your mother still have the loan in her name. You need to have a lot of confindence in the person taking over the loan...)

    Is the car worth more or less than the remaining loan amount?

    If it is worth more than the loan amount, selling it for this would be the way out.

    If it is not worth the loan amount, and it will be lost in any case, don't make any more payments, these will essentially be lost money. Just call the finacnce company and make arragement to return the car. This is still a repo, but there is no reason to have the car towed, with possibly personal items inside that have to be retrieved, etc.

    If it's a lost cause, give it up.
  • bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    A thought for this thread....

    I recently saw a relative lose a car. Bought from one of those By Here, Pay Here places, I think.

    He was behind. They sent out a couple of girls/young women to talk to him. If he would have given up the car, I think they (since there were 2 of them, one to drive his car), would have taken it.

    After talking to him, and another family member talking to them, they did not take the car. I think they might have gotten $100 or so, which still did not get him caught up on the loan.

    In a few days he got some more money together, which he paid aganist the loan. But in a couple more weeks he continued to be behind and lost the car.

    Anyway, I got to thinking about this. They send out a couple of young girls, not 'Big Fred' with a tow truck, greasy overalls, and a big wrench in his back pocket. These non-agressive girls can successfully pull a few more dollars out of him. (From 'loans' from family members that are not actualy loans since they will never be paid back.) They probably come by a time or two again and pull some more money, but he never has enough to be 'caught up'.

    The car is taken back. Any of this additional money they were able to pull out of him after he got behind is just more gravy for the BHPY seller. They've got the car again, it's a semi-junker in about the same condition as when he got it a few months ago, they will be able to resell the car again for the same amount he bought it for.

    Anyway - The bottom line. If you are going to lose the car, let it go. Any money given in the last few days is just gone. It is an expensive way to get a few more days transportation.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Any of this additional money they were able to pull out of him after he got behind is just more gravy for the BHPY seller

    I guess thats one way to look at it. Another way would be that they collected more of the money in which he/she signed a contractual agreement on.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I would never, ever let the car be repossessd if there was the slightest way to avoid that. That is a major, major mark on your credit report. The missed payments that lead to the repossession are in addition to that, so you are taking a really bad situation and making it worse.

    If in this case the car is worth, say, $1K less than the loan balance I'd try to get the $1K together. A decent credit record is worth more than that and a bad mark on your credit stays there for at least three years.

    Obviously there are individual cases but as a rule you want to keep those things to a minimum.

    Plus there is the validity of a signed contract and a moral obligation to live up to it.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    guess thats one way to look at it. Another way would be that they collected more of the money in which he/she signed a contractual agreement on.

    But you're not familiar with how BHPH works...it's in their business plan to repo as many cars as possible, but only after squeezing as much money as possible off the borrower. It's a viscous circle for most buyers.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Any of this additional money they were able to pull out of him after he got behind is just more gravy for the BHPY seller.

    Do I have this straight? You lend me $1,000. I pay back $100 then skip town. I can have a clear conscience because you're holding gravy, right?

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    But you're not familiar with how BHPH works...it's in their business plan to repo as many cars as possible, but only after squeezing as much money as possible off the borrower. It's a viscous circle for most buyers.

    I am not familiar with them? Well thank you for pointing that out to me. I will make sure they know that when I am standing out front this evening before we close BS'ing with 3 or 4 of them that are here to buy are wholesale pieces from the weekend. Maybe one them can explain it to me.

    You saying they are in the business to repo cars is crazy. they in the business to have a very, very strong AP Account, a large group of people making there payments on time every week. When they open the door on Saturday morning the want a large pile of envelopes laying there that came through the slot from FP's (Friday pays)

    They do not want to chase paper

    They do not want to pay a repo man

    They do not want to hassle with a PO'ed customer

    What they want is you to pay your fricken car payment like you promissed you would when you signed the contract. I think it is funny how allot of you think you can just wipe your feet on these guys because they are a BHPH lot. That speaks volumes.
  • bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    How about the stories where people tried to pay cash for a BHPH car, and they would not sell it?

    How about the story about the Camero a few years old that had been sold 18 times by the same lot?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    Do I have this straight? You lend me $1,000. I pay back $100 then skip town. I can have a clear conscience because you're holding gravy, right?

    No, that's not quite straight. Now, I definitely don't agree with defaulting on an agreement.

    BUT, in your analogy, he only got back $100 out of $1000. In the car situation, he got $100 PLUS the $1000 car back ... at which point he'll sell it again for $1000.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    I think it is funny how allot of you think you can just wipe your feet on these guys because they are a BHPH lot. That speaks volumes.

    I can wipe my feet on them because as a CPA, I've had close financial relationships with several of these BHPH shops. I've also terminated my services to all of them . I don't do business with folks when I'm not morally comfortable with their business plan. I've also cut clients involved with resort sales (selling "memberships" to people that can't afford it at 20% interest, repo'ing, then selling it again...), cash advance stores, and just plain folks I don't like. Not everyone can pick their clients, but I do and it's worked out well.

    I really doubt any are going to tell you "yeah, we love it when folks default" as these guys are trying to keep a low profile. Last thing they want are legislators breathing down their necks like some of these other questionable businesses.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...if a person owes money on a car and dies? Does the car get repo'd or is the loan written off? Say the person was single and had no family or life insurance.
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    Be rather convenient wouldn't it, if your estate could keep all the stuff that you financed before you kicked the bucket! :shades:

    With or without a family or estate, I doubt that the dealer will leave the car sitting in the driveway for long. Alive or dead, no pay no car!
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    i would guess it goes into probate and becomes either an asset or liability of the estate, at which time they decide weather or not to satisfy the loan or to let it go back. Just a guess on my part though
  • pholliephollie Member Posts: 45
    folks,
    I've got a 2004 Aero 9-5 Wagon that has about 18 months to go on a 4 year lease. So far, unlike my prior Saabs, this car has been flawless. My question is, what should I do as far as the lease goes. If I keep driving at the present rate, I'll be at 62000 miles on a 48,000 lease. Also, my warranty is up at 50k too if I'm not mistaken.

    Should I try to get out now? Consider an extended warranty and try keeping it next year? Its about $10k upside down at this point due to having to roll in negative equity from a sludged Saab. Thanks.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    A few things you can do that I tell my lease customers if they want to get out early.

    Get the exact payout, and if you're upside down because of a dealer's appraisal, see if you can sell the car yourself privately. With Honda, lease customers can sell the car themselves, pay the payout to Honda Finance, and keep the rest for themselves if there is any equity left that way.

    I don't know if you can do that with Saabs though.

    If you're upside down $10k even when you sell it privately, see if anyone would want to take over your lease, but that might be a tough sell, as the warranty is almost up.

    If you do really like the car though, and you think it's worth keeping, then I would seriously consider getting the extended warranty, so that you have some protection after you buy out the car.

    Otherwise you have to ask yourself if it's worth buying a warranty on a car you will be returning in 18 months.

    One thing to be weary of is having excess mileage penalties, AND repair costs added on to a car that's not yours. The costs could add up quite quickly.

    The thing I wouldn't do is to roll the negative equity into another car. This way you'll just drive yourself to the poor house.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,617
    Not rolling over negative equity is good advice, but will be impossible to follow, if you want to get rid of this car..

    The cheapest way out? Buy a $3000 beater, and park that Saab when it hits 49,900 miles.. That way, no out of warranty costs and minimal mileage charges.. At the rate you are driving, that will only be 10 months of driving a beater..

    When the lease is up, turn in the Saab and sell the beater, and start with a clean slate... This is way cheaper than paying maintenance/repair bills on a used Saab, or buying an extended warranty and paying the over-mileage charges.. Of course, you won't be driving a Saab for a year.

    Don't lease for four years.... and don't take a lower mileage allowance than you need..

    regards,
    kyfdx

    Edit: Buy the beater now.. Use it to commute... You'll still have the mileage on the Saab to use for weekends/travel..etc.

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  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    That's a good idea too.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    Kyfdx, why in the world would they want to do that? The $3000 they spent on the beater is about what the projected mileage charge would be on the lease. And the insurance and upkeep of an old POS car could possibly end up costing as much or more then out of warranty work would on the SAAB.

    My advice is to not make payments on something to have it sit in the garage. Drive it, if you go over on miles so be it but at what you project your mileage would be at .20 a mile you are talking about $2800. Don't try to trade it you would lose 4 times that.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,617
    And the insurance and upkeep of an old POS car could possibly end up costing as much or more then out of warranty work would on the SAAB.

    If your old POS car needs a bunch of work, you can just dump it... You are out $3000 at most...

    A Saab out of warranty? The potential loss is unlimited (well.. at least up to the residual value) ;)

    I do agree... driving the Saab and racking up the mileage charges would be preferable to trying to trade it in for a $10K loss..

    But, I'll stick with my beater recommendation.. I want that Saab in warranty until it leaves my driveway..

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    You probably make sense, I have never owned a Foriegn Car so I am not familiar with the maintanence/repair cost on some of them.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,617
    I don't want to paint with too broad of a brush... It isn't the foreign part that is the problem.. specifically, it is the Saab :cry: part..

    Also, I try not to look at it, as making a payment on a car that is sitting... His payment is what it is, because of the mileage allowance.. So, he has sort of already used up those last payments, even though he hasn't paid them yet... If he had taken a 15K/yr allowance, his payment would have been even higher. I'm guessing that he went for the 4yr/48K lease, because with the negative equity from his last car, it was the payment that fit his budget, even though it didn't fit his driving needs.

    Another reason I like the idea of the beater, is the idea of doing penance for making poor car decisions.. Instead of trading into another nice car, you get to feel the consequences.. hopefully, keeping you from making the same mistake the next time.. :)

    Just kidding on that last part (maybe)... I really do think buying a nice $3000 car to put 12K miles on over the next 18 months is the best idea.. Plus, you'll still have your Saab to drive to McDonalds on dates.. ;)

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  • pholliephollie Member Posts: 45
    Funny thing (not really), I was told my Saab lease was for 15k a year. In fact, I remember the salesman saying that specifically. But when I checked it later on....it was only 12. My fault for being too emotional at the time of purchase. I had just gotten the bad news that my previous Saab, that I couldn't wait to get rid of, was filled with sludge. This is before they suggested synthetic oil or offered any warrenty. I got hosed. So here I sit with a leased car with three months to go with a blown engine that they blame on me.
    Lesson learned, instead of getting mad, then resigned to paying the higher price...perhaps I should have fought more.
    Needless to say, whenever I make my payment today...I'm not happy. I like the car just fine...just not for the price I'm paying and the situation. From now on its synthetic oil changes, a file folder for receipts and cross my fingers.

    Bottom line...I have to pay the money sometime...either at the end of the lease...or now by bringing cash on top of my trade. What say you?
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    "I like the car just fine...just not for the price I'm paying"

    So what's the problem? It sounds like the car is almost as good as new and the price you are paying each month is the same as it was when you began the lease.

    As Joel suggested, keep driving the car and pay for the additional mileage when the lease is over.

    You aren't losing anything. If the original lease had been for 15K miles per year, it would have cost more, so it all evens out.

    Next time leae a more reliable car like an Audi or a Jag.
  • gogiboygogiboy Member Posts: 732
    "I had just gotten the bad news that my previous Saab, that I couldn't wait to get rid of, was filled with sludge. This is before they suggested synthetic oil or offered any warrenty. I got hosed. So here I sit with a leased car with three months to go with a blown engine that they blame on me."

    phollie--

    Maybe I'm missing something here, but given your tale of woe with the first Saab I'm surprised that you bought a second, particularly since corporate Saab has laid the blame for the sludge on you, which I find questionable.

    As has been pointed out there are no great solutions to your predicament. Kfydx was quite helpful to me on the "real world trade in" forum and suggested roughly $2900-$3400 for an old Civic I own. Given my history with the car I would trust it infinitely more than your significantly newer Saab and would expect to spend considerably less on repairs. I wouldn't even view driving a Civic as penance although you might. So I concur with kfydx that a sensible used car (aka beater) might be cheaper in both the short and long run--especially if the Swedish stars fail to align.

    Gogiboy
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    the good news is your car is performing well. some other things to consider are tires and brakes. will they be needed before your lease is up? they can be expensive.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • pholliephollie Member Posts: 45
    Good point. Never considered brakes. The tires are in good shape. See, my point exactly. The good "angel" on my shoulder says pay the money...suck it up. But the bad angel says, its a Saab. Get out now and pay 5 grand or else you could be stuck with a leased car, over miles, needing service and heaven forbid...a big Saab like problem.
  • grandtotalgrandtotal Member Posts: 1,207
    Keep it. Drive it. Pay the over mileage charge at the end. Learn from that. Buy a 12 month extended warranty. Enjoy.

    The fact that you don't own the car makes no difference, you are still responsible for it. Protecting yourself with a warranty if you feel you need to just makes sense. You insure it even though you don't own it, a warranty, if you feel you need one, is no different
  • pernaperna Member Posts: 521
    Next time leae a more reliable car like an Audi or a Jag.

    You want a REAL Saab story, buy an Audi and mile it up. ;)
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    A reporter seeks to interview people who know or suspect that they are upside down in their car loans. (See http://www.edmunds.com/advice/strategies/articles/104952/article.html for an explanation.)
    Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than April 25, 2007 with your daytime contact information and a brief description of your purchase and your trade-in, if you had one.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    I had just gotten the bad news that my previous Saab, that I couldn't wait to get rid of, was filled with sludge.

    So, if you were not thrilled with your SAAB experience, why in the world did you give them more money?

    So here I sit with a leased car with three months to go with a blown engine that they blame on me.

    3 months on the lease couldn't have been more than $1000, would you have been better off just paying off the lease and turning the car in?

    Was that a Turbo SAAB? How often was the oil changed?

    To the foregn comment, older SAABs were Sweedish, since the mid-90's SAABs are no different than Chevy Malibu, pure American car made in Sweeden from GM parts bin.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Member Posts: 2,798
    I am in a reverse predicament.

    I have a car that is worth about $20K, I owe $12K, I did not put any money down, it is 2 years old... and not sure if I should cash out, lol. I think it is at the highest point of its resale curve.

    Any suggestions?
  • sky23213sky23213 Member Posts: 300
    I feel your pain, I'm pretty much in the same boat :D
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    I have a car that is worth about $20K, I owe $12K, I did not put any money down.

    Did you trade a paid for car in? If not please share with us what kind it is?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,617
    Easy... Honda CR-V..

    Mine is worth $11K-$12K and I owe nothing... :)

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