Owe more than it's worth... I'm upside down and I can't get up!

british_rover

Bah I never even realized. It looks like a "q" on my monitor.

As long as I am all mixed up I thought Bill was involved with Lambos at some point. Am I thinking someone else?

thenebean

i always have to do a double take to see if its Q or G!

too funny

-thene

im_brentwood

Involved in Lambos for a short while... I've always said, if Detroit ever made a car comparable to, say, a 5 series that I would get one. They did and I did!

Still got a mess of weird old stuff.. BMWs mainly and, of course, the Vauxenslobbins.

qbrozen

The STS is bigger, though, ain't it? More like 7-series?

by the way, i dropped you a line. did you get it?

fezo

Yeah, but he's not answering his mail.....

im_brentwood

STS is a bit bigger than a 5, much smaller than my 7s.

I will answer mail stat!

blueiedgod

Not sure if this is the right place but so many topics dont know where to post. So here goes.

I am in the market for a 2007 honda civic w/nav. And trading in a 2005 Chevy Equinox LS with 23000 miles on it. TMV value is like 13,800(I owe 16.xxx) or so for the chevy.

I got to my first dealer and they give me a rock bottom price of 25,500 OTD in which I think I can get it lower but they arent budging. So off to the 2nd dealer they come back with a price of 27,450, at this point I am floored. I ask the dealer what they were giving me on the trade and he jumped around the question trying not to answer me so I finally got it out of him. He says 11,xxx, so I proceed to ask him why so little, when the trade value is closer to 14,000. He tells me that the dealership is a wholesaler dealership, so I told him to sell the civic for wholesale but my witty remark didnt get a good response.

So I was getting no where with him and he was giving me the manager calling other people on a saturday to get more for my trade run around.

So I am not sure where to go from here, most people are paying 21,xxx for the civic, I know I am taking a hit in the neg equity but I am sure I can work with dealer #1 another 1000 dollars. Or just go to another dealer and see what they say.

Problem 1) Everyone is dumping their SUVs when the gas prices go up and jumping into Civics/Corollas.

Problem 2) If you think your car is worth more, sell it your self, see what it s worth, and how many people come knocking on your door to buy it.

Problem 3) You are trading a GM vehicle to a Honda dealer. People who shop Honda are not going there to look at GM, so the dealer will have to wholesale it, since their chances of selling it themselves are low.

Solution, hold on to the Equinox, it will take 5-10 years of driving the Civic to break even on this transaction, if you are doing it solely because of the gas prices.

fezo

Of course my question is if the first dealer is offering a $2K better deal why are you futzing around at the second dealer? You must have a high pain tolerance.

The advice to hang on to what you have is good unless your reasons are other than gas prices. (sure, if you know a repair that will cost more than your negative equity is coming up by all means go for it!)

If you are going to buy either go back to the first dealer and take it or try more dealers. I do find if someone is pegged up high and not moving quickly off that price that it's not worth the time.

yusuf1

Hello, all. Here we go again. 1999 Honda Accord LX, 180,000 miles on. Just fixed the timing belt, now the ac fan and motor went out and it's hot here!! Getting tired of putting dollars into this thing..is it finally time to trade? If so, suggestions on how to go about it? Thanks.

mac24

So, referring to the discusion title, how much do you still owe on your Honda?

lemko

...if I still owed money on a 1999 vehicle of ANY MAKE I'd be concerned.

qbrozen

well... I would NEVER trade a miled-up Accord. Private sale is the ONLY way to go!

bdc2020

It wouldn't suprise me based on some of the things I've read in here!

cdnpinhead

certainly goes a long way.

Kirstie_H

- not accepted in these Forums. Post & fallout removed.

joel0622

not accepted in these Forums. Post & fallout removed

Ya'all been busy lately. Must be the summer heat waves.

yusuf1

Hello, again. Paid the car off in January. I'm sure I can get another 50-75k miles out of it but is it worth it? Been getting these odd solicitations in the mail from local dealerships about how I've been "pre-approved" for a certain amount so come on down and we'll hook you up!! Yeah, right. Still getting the ac fixed then it'll be the brakes and so on... Given my situation I'll be at the mercy of the dealerships so should I just submit?

shipo

"Given my situation I'll be at the mercy of the dealerships so should I just submit?"

Only if you want/need a new car. You have two other options:

1) Get a good "Do It Yourself" manual on your car. Brakes are a fairly easy DIY job these days. For the A/C, simply find a good independent A/C shop and have them do the work for a fraction of what your dealer would charge.
2) Find a good independent shop to maintain your car. They will typically cost you half or less compared to what the dealership will charge.

Best Regards,
Shipo

geffen

Currently i'm thinking of trading in the car I have however the dealers i've been to have both given me about the same appraisal value which is about $2000 less than what I owe, is it best to come up with cash to take up the negative equity or roll some of it into the new car purchase with rebates?

cccompson

If possible, it's best to sell it on your own for $2000 more than the dealers are offering.

Failing that, it's a question of which way will cost you the least. If you can get a higher rate of return than your financing cost, borrow it. If not, pull it out of your pocket.

stickguy

That 2K is not different than the rest of the cost of th enew car. You owe the money, and either pay it now, or finance it and pay it later.

SO the real question is, do you want to pay of 2K now or pay interest on it? Pretty much the same question you have if you charge a new TV, and the bill comes.

The logic behind not rolling over the negative equity could be easily extrapolated to not borrowing any money at all, or at least taking out a much shorter term car loan.

blueiedgod

Currently i'm thinking of trading in the car I have however the dealers i've been to have both given me about the same appraisal value which is about $2000 less than what I owe, is it best to come up with cash to take up the negative equity or roll some of it into the new car purchase with rebates?

If the new car financing rate is lower than the rate a bank will give you for having $2000 sitting there, then finance the negative equity.

If the new car loan rate is higher than what banks will pay you to have $2000 sitting there, then pay off negative equity with cash.

If you don't have the cash, don't trade. Sell your self to minimize the loss, or just keep the car.

msmitch25

I was browsing this website yesterday and found a pretty good rebate on a brand new dodge grand caravan. I figured I could use the rebate to cover the negative equity on my current vehicle which is about 3K - 3500 dollars. Is this a good idea or should I just stop the bus and get off now!

cccompson

If you are truly trying to get right-side up, get off the merry-go-round now. Buying a Grand Caravan will likely only aggravate your situation as their resale is not the best.

shipo

"If you are truly trying to get right-side up, get off the merry-go-round now. Buying a Grand Caravan will likely only aggravate your situation as their resale is not the best."

That might could be true, however, after owning two of them and communicating with many-many other owners, the Gen 3 and Gen 4 versions (2007 is the last of the Gen 4s) are very well engineered and very long lived. That said, I'm not recommending that msmitch25 take this course of action. Slice it and dice it any way you want, the best course for her to take is to stay with the current ride.

Best Regards,
Shipo

steine13

I agree in general, but as Terry used to say: It depends, and not the kind you wear.

If the present car is, say, a '94 Jaguar XJ12, I'd say have at the Dodge...

In general, the only car I'll allow to 'get out from under' is a fully unsexy Corolla.
-Mathias

shipo

"In general, the only car I'll allow to 'get out from under' is a fully unsexy Corolla."

Hey, after spending the ten years spanning the mid 1990s through the mid 2000s driving sweet German sedans (with three pedals under the dash no less), I'm now driving a 1998 Dodge Grand Caravan (that we paid off in 2001) with nearly 150,000 miles on the clock. Talk about reversal of fortune AND unsexy, that's it. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

kyfdx

I've now been driving a Honda CR-V (2 different ones) for 9 years....

Very nice, practical car... but, I feel like I've wasted my 40s...

shipo

"I've now been driving a Honda CR-V (2 different ones) for 9 years...."

Dr. Shipo has just the prescription for you. Go fetch an ED 535i SP 6-Speed in Munich and spend a couple of weeks with Mrs. Kyfdx tooling around. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

roadburner

Dr. Shipo has just the prescription for you. Go fetch an ED 535i SP 6-Speed in Munich and spend a couple of weeks with Mrs. Kyfdx tooling around.

EXCELLENT advice!!! However, if you don't want to spend quite that much, you could do what I just did- I picked up a Mazdaspeed3 to pass the time until Munich sees fit to offer a limited slip and or an M Sport package on the 1er coupe. Talk about re-living a misspent youth; at 50 years of age I find myself getting challenged at nearly every traffic light by tuner cars, Mustang GTs, Daytona R/Ts- you name it. I think I'm going to fit the Mazdaspeed cold air intake in order to insure my Stoplight Grand Prix winning streak continues. :P
My 12 year old son is very impressed; last night he informed me that I wasn't "an old fogey, like a lot of other Dads."

shipo

...at 50 years of age...

Oh geez, not another kid from 1957. Hmmm, my Brother-In-Law, one of my two business partners and his wife, a neighbor, and my doctor and my wife and me, all kids from that fine year. :shades:

Best Regards,
Shipo

roadburner

Oh geez, not another kid from 1957. Hmmm, my Brother-In-Law, one of my two business partners and his wife, a neighbor, and my doctor and my wife and me, all kids from that fine year.

And my wife as well; a very good year...

kyfdx

I'm just a young pup.. 1958.. But, I was in the class of '75..

sebring95

I was browsing this website yesterday and found a pretty good rebate on a brand new dodge grand caravan. I figured I could use the rebate to cover the negative equity on my current vehicle which is about 3K - 3500 dollars. Is this a good idea or should I just stop the bus and get off now!

That nice rebate they're offering reduces the resale value by (at minimum) an equal amount. So really, you wouldn't be gaining anything by using that to cover your negative equity. Instead of your current $3k shortfall, you'll also have to then add-in the immediate depreciation of the new vehicle as well as some tax expense. I'm guessing you'll be $10,000 upside down within minutes of closing the transaction. But hey, you'll have a new car that you'll HAVE to keep a long time to just get back to being $3k upside down.......

davids1

If your goal is to get out of the negative equity spiral, then no!

If your goal is to get into a vehicle that you plan to own for 10 years, then yes!

dtownfb

What is your current car? And how much do you owe on it?

rlms56

I have a 1999 Mercedes SLK230 with a loan balance of $20,000. It's not worth more than $15,000 if I'm lucky enough to sell it on my own, $13,000 if I trade it in. My question is, are loan companies ever willing to work with you on the difference? Meaning will they knock off $$ to put an end to my misery? Long shot I know but was just curious. :confuse:

qbrozen

No. You owe what you owe, end of story. They have absolutely no reason to give you a break UNLESS its a lease, in which case, they will take it back at the end of the lease, so it might be in their best interest to negotiate a buyout with you. But I take it yours is not a lease, so you are out of luck.

roadburner

If you have access to a good credit union you could sell the car yourself and finance the deficiency with a 1-2 year personal loan from your CU.

blueiedgod

I have a 1999 Mercedes SLK230 with a loan balance of $20,000. It's not worth more than $15,000 if I'm lucky enough to sell it on my own, $13,000 if I trade it in. My question is, are loan companies ever willing to work with you on the difference? Meaning will they knock off $$ to put an end to my misery? Long shot I know but was just curious.

If I owed you $20,000 and offered to pay you $13,000 would you take it?

lemko

How long ago did you buy the car?
For how long did you finance it?
How much did you finance?
What was the interest rate?

s1ark5

First let me say this I dont know anything about cars at all and sales people can really do a number to me if they wanted to.. Saying this My dad bought me a 05 TC a while back and I moved to Tampa, FL and I had to trade it in for a 4 door car because my wife is due with our first child in september, this happened 2 months ago. I have been driving the Sentra but I really do not like the car at all! I am financing the car paying 334 a month for 75 months. I dont know what kind of a deal that was that I got, as I said I i have no clue when it comes to financing and buying a car etc you get the idea....

Now I thought hey I really like the new Civic. I went to the Honda dealership yesterday wanting to know if I can somehow trade my Sentra for a new Civic and be in the ball park of 350 monthly payments. They said they can give me a deal that pays 380 for 84 months. I said no, i cant do that. So what I want to know is, would this be a good deal for the Civic. Obviously give them my Sentra 07, put 0 down on the Civic and pay about 365 a month for 72 months.

what do you guys think?

blackexv6

Well, looks like you are going to lose a lot of money. Your '07 Sentra lost about $4-5k in its first year depreciation. Check out kbb.com or edmunds.com to find out what your car is worth, need to know trim model & mileage.

That being said, a new '07 civic LX auto can be purchased for around $16.5k and an '07 Civic EX for $18.5K. (Check the prices paid forum here). You can get 0% for 36 mo. right now.

If I were you, I would keep the Sentra for another year or two. You are basically throwing money away that can be used for payments over the next 2 years.

A general rule I use is to keep a car at least 3 years. That is what most leases are based on - the depreciation settles out at that point. A 2 year lease payment will be more than a 3 year.

forbesj

Quite simply, you got yourself in to a ripoff of a deal on the Sentra. Do you have the loan details? Did you seriously trade the tC in to get the "deal" you have now? If you traded the tC in, you might not be upside down, so the car would count for something, but this looks to be a car you simply can't afford. What's the balance on your current loan?

How is your credit? If you have no idea, you need to get yourself a credit report.

A 75 month loan on a new car is insane. An 84 month loan is even crazier. If you can't afford a 60 month loan on the car, then don't buy it; it will cost you so much in interest compared to a shorter loan that it's not funny.

You need to learn about how to properly finance something before you go to a dealer. If you go there, and tell them you can afford X payment, they will do anything they can to get the price where they want it to be - IE, very high.

Did you seriously trade the tC in on that? The monthly payments on your loan are are so high and go for so long that you are paying $25k on your loan on the Sentra on top of whatever the tC was worth. If they gave you $10k on the tC, then you're paying $35k for a Sentra.

For comparison, I just bought a Civic Si. $5500 down, no trade in, 60 month loan, payments in the low $290 range. I'm paying about $3000 in interest, not $10k+.

Without seriously looking at this, it appears to me that you are going down a very wrong path right now, and you have yourself in a situation where you aren't going to be able to get anything resembling a good deal given the situation you have yourself in. If you need another car, I'm going to recommend that you buy something used, or pay off the Sentra as quickly as possible.

The "deal" they offered you on the Civic has you paying $32k for it. Even if it was an Si, it'd be a horrible ripoff. If it's an LX, you'd be paying only half on the car, and half interest. That's just ridiculous.

Assuming a $21k loan (Civic Si, most expensive one), over 7 years, to get to a 380/month payment, you are getting offered an interest rate in the 12-13% range. Your credit is likely not so hot. If you're talking about an LX, the interest rate is closer to 20%. If your credit is this bad, you need to repair your credit and get yourself financially secure before you buy a new car. An EX would be in between the two, but definitely not an acceptable rate.

If you give me more of the details, I can try and help you out, but I can already ascertain that my answer will be that it would be an incredibly financially stupid thing for you to buy a new car.

Have you, by any chance, worked up some credit card debt? I'm thinking you have, as these interest rates are utterly ridiculous.

Google "auto loan calculator", and you can see how the different terms affect your payments, and you can see exactly how much money you are spending on paying the bank to let you borrow money (interest).

s1ark5

lx for 16.5K? The honda dealership I went to yesterday had msrp 20K for an lx and then out of the door price of 23K...I knew that was wrong. But I really want the Civic, I HATE the sentra!! what do you suggest I do?

s1ark5

No I trade my TC which I owed about 12K on it and they gave me just that 12K. I got the sentra on 75/month loan. I have really really good credit. 735 score.

forbesj

^^ Read my response.

I don't care if you really want the Civic; from the limited information you've given, buying the Civic would be a tremendous ripoff.

Get some quotes online. Offer something like $16,500 for the LX, and see if you get any bites.

Please share the current loan details on the Sentra - how much the tC traded in for, how much you owe on your loan, and your current interest rate.

If you want the Civic, save up a few thousand dollars as a down payment, and get a shoter duration loan. Live with the Sentra for a while longer, because you are going to be losing thousands of dollars on the car, AND you are going to be upside down on it, so you are going to need to ADD extra money into the value of the loan.

In short - the Sentra is worth a lot less than what you owe on the loan, so the dealer will pay you thousands less than what it's worth - this will mean that for a $17k car, you would need to likely take out a $20k loan to pay on it.

If you are then talking about an 84 month loan, it's going to be 4-5+ years before you're not upside down on the Civic, and given how much you've been swapping cars around, you will be doing nothing other than digging yourself further in to a hole.

If you want to continue making poor financial decisions, buy the Civic, but this recommendation isn't because the car is only slightly out of your price range; it's way out of your league.

s1ark5

Ok here is my situation in detail. I traded my TC I dont owe anything on it any more since i traded it in. I recieved the Sentra. I am paying 334 on the sentra for 75 months. I just do not like the car at all. I wanted to get the civi. so I went to the Civi dealership I said can I make the trade for the Civic and pay about 340-350 a month , with 0 down, and the same length. They gave me 380 a month for 84 months, i said No. I really want the civic, i like it alot. That is my situation. I have really really good credit.

s1ark5

I just bought the Sentra last month, and I owe 20K on it. I made one payment so far. the rate is 6.5%.

themistocles

ouch you owe 20k on it after trading in your tc?
really you should never ever ever ever trade in cars to dealerships... When i was lookin for my 07 civic si, they asked if i wanted to trade in my jetta, so i asked what they would give me for it( 97 jetta GL, low 72k miles, clean title, moon roof all that jazz, nothin wrong with it, nice paint). They offered 700-900 dollars!!! i flat out said dont insult me and said im going to another dealership. lol.. well anyway, i ended up selling the jetta through classifed ads for $5,500..
dealerships will take advantage of you if you dont know what your doing. you gotta make sure you atleast get msrp for the car if not invoice. Your just gonna be throwin money away if you trade it in.. sell it private party. you already took a hit tradin the TC it looks like, dont take another.
Good luck to ya man!