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Since you've offered to help him make it easier to not use a selt belt, maybe you could talk coach him with some speeding or reckless driving tips too. Or how about buying him a six-pack of beer to drink while he's driving? Why stop with the seat belt?
My sister drives drunk sometimes. What do I tell her? "I hope you get arrested before you hurt or kill somebody". I'm sure not going to assist her in her irresponsible behaviour in any way.
So, nobody here is going to help you either, on the Mazda3 or any other car for that matter.
fitzy75 and wolf, I've had the same hard-start issue with my Mazda3 (hatch, 2.3, auto) over the last month. It's worse in the morning, and also when the car has been left in the sun. They replaced the relay in the ignition just yesterday, hoping that would do it, but it didn't do anything really. It takes 4-5 seconds to start a brand-new car. Bizarre. perrito
My 3s has a build date of 11/03. I purchased it on 12/07/03 and haven't had a single problem other than a little excessive rear brake dust (no premature wearing, just dust). I am completely happy with my purchase, and convinced that I am in a reliable, feature-loaded, fun to drive car that - for its price - couldn't be beat.
I think many readers forget that the people who visit this forum are only a small percentage of overall 3 owners, and that people in general are more likely to report a problem than praise the lack thereof.
EVERY first-year model vehicle is going to have some problems; the fact that the Mazda3 has been out for 7 months now and hasn't had a recall should set your mind (somewhat) at ease. How many other new model cars can claim that?
The simple answer is that it comes down to what you feel comfortable with. Personally, I couldn't wait to sign on the dotted line, and I haven't regretted my decision for one moment since.
We are moving to Tampa FL at the end of this month and I will be buying a new compact car when we arrive. After lots of test drives (in Chicago) I had decided on a 3i.
But these posts about the A/C being weak are giving me second thoughts, the last thing I need in Tampa in August is weak A/C!
Anybody in a warm climate think the A/C works fine? Do all 3's have weak A/C or is it just a problem with some cars?
I wish I had thought to try the A/C out when I test-drove; but I already told the local dealer I will be buying in Florida so I don't really want to ask for another test-drive. Functional A/C is something I took for granted.
The A/C on my 3S produces only a whisper of cool air. One of my co-workers has a 3i and says his A/C is also very minimal. Here, in the mountains of Colorado, it isn't a major inconvenience, but if I lived in Florida, good A/C would be a important feature.
If a cold AC is a factor in your car buying decision - then RUN FROM THE MAZDA3 -
The AC works fine on a cool cloudy day - but who need a cold AC on a cool cloudy day? - When the temp is above 85 and the sun is out the AC in the Mazda3 does not cool the car - cool air comes out of the vent - but the car never really gets cool. After a few hours in the Mazda3 on a hot day - the back of my shirt is wet with sweat.
The dealer says AC is working as designed - Mazda customer service told me to go see my states attorney general if I have a problem with the AC performance -
Didn't I also recall them saying they're doing testing in the California and/or Nevada deserts to find out exactly what the problem is so they can fix it? This is getting repetitive.
I have had my Mazda3 almost 6 months - I complained about AC performance about 5 months ago - I don't think I was the first customer to bring this problem up - and I know that many other customers (and potential customers) have similar problems. Mazda has had at least 5 months to come up with a fix - they have not.
So is Mazda incompetent or do they just not care about the customer? It could be both.
The simple fact is - if you need a cold AC system - then you should take the Mazda3 off your shopping list. If you live somewhere that only has a few hot days or if you don't mind sweating as you drive down the highway - then the Mazda3 MAY be a good choice.
Let me be blunt.....it sounds like you have no concept of how the automotive engineering community works. You don't just wave your magic wand and "poof" there's the fix. It takes months of testing and analyzing to weed out the true root cause of the failure. You can't fix the failure until you know what it is, that means designing the actual fix for it will take longer. I heard that perhaps the A/C system is too small, so packaging becomes a concern. What about frontal crash results. What happens when you put a larger Condenser in the front of the car? Does it do more damage in a crash? What about installing a larger compressor? How does it affect the performance of the engine? Does it create a larger power drain, or maybe even eat into the fuel mileage?
What about the insulation, or perhaps lack thereof. You mention that on a cloudy day, the car does not get as hot and the A/C seems to perform more adequately. Maybe Mazda didn't insulate the roof well enough to protect against radiant heat from the sun, or maybe the glass they used doesn't insulate well enough. Engineers have to think about everything, not just the customer's happiness. Give them the time do fix it right. I hate to say it, but if it's a fix on a large enough scale, they'll wait until a model year changeover.
Thanks for your input z71bill (and others). I figure that it will be hard enough adjusting to the Tampa heat (coming from Chicago) with good AC. Since you are in Houston it is likely I will have the same sweaty back problem in Tampa. And I sweat a lot :-)
It is a shame because I really liked the 3. Maybe I should go with a 2005 Ford Focus instead.
You having any of the mentioned problems with your 3?
Not yet... but I've probably driven it less than 200 miles thus far, and I'm so focused on driving the stick (never got around to learning that...) that I'm not very likely to notice some of the more subtle issues. Thus far, everything seems well. Though I can spot some brake dust on the rear rims already... anyone tried to piece together whether the rear dust is better or worse on cars with the ABS/EBD package?
Anyway, from what I can tell, the dust isn't really so much a problem as just an anomaly. The rims are really open, so I can see how this car would show more dust than others -- just weird that it's on the back wheels.
A few things to consider and respond to if you wish. Be a blunt as you like my skin is thick enough to handle anything YOU can throw at me.
Auto air conditioning has been around for several decades - it is really not new technology. How hard can it be for a competent auto company to design an AC system that cools a car. I just sold a 1981 Pontiac that had a colder AC than my 2004 Mazda3 - If you think this is acceptable then your standards are too low.
Don't you think Mazda should have identified this problem BEFORE the car was put into production?
Is it acceptable business practice to continue selling a product when you know it has a major defect? If you say yes (as Mazda obviously has) then taking a year or two to solve the problem is no big deal (unless you are one of the people who happen to buy a car with a defect).
BTW - I ran one of the largest manufacturing companies in Texas for over 15 years - its products are sold in all 50 states (USA) and about 25 other countries (including Canada). When I took over responsibility for the company it was one of the smaller companies in our industry -it is now the largest - I think I know a little bit about how things work. Not claiming to know everything about everything - but I darn well know how long it should take to figure out this type of a problem - and it is much closer to 6 weeks than 6 months. This of course assumes that you have employees that know what the heck they are doing and a management team that is paying attention to the business.
And please - before someone chimes in with something like - My AC works great - if that is really true then finding a solution and fix for all the Mazda3's with defective AC systems should be that much easier - Right?
I'm not saying there are no Mazda A/C problems, but I live in West Texas and I think my A/C works just fine. Then again, I've owned a few VW's which are known to have weak A/C systems. On top of that I'm one of the last persons to ever complain about either heat or cold. (I've lived in Germany for several years - I know what cold is.) Don't know if this has been of help to anyone or not, just my 2 cents.
I wonder if this board could do some kind of survey to see if there is some kind of correlation between build date of the car and a/c problems. My build date is 04/04 and my a/c works fine for being in an area with constant 90+ heat. *knock on wood*
Mine is one of the first (build date 11/03), and the A.C is less than effective. I don't tend to use it all that much, but had i been told it was this mediocre, I would have saved the $1000 + AC tax. i think the point to bear in mind here is that when a person buys a car with AC, he/she does so with the expectation that it will be at least on par with comparable systems in the marketplace, and this one is not. Shoving a probe in a vent and telling me it is to spec (my dealership's response) leaves a bad taste in my mouth. One of two situations exists here, either there is a defect in some cars, or the system is simply underpowered. In the first case, 5 months is more than enough time to solve the issue given that the AC system is really not a terribly complex unit. If the second is true, it raises some serious concerns as to what else slipped through the cracks in the design process. Mazda is attempting to market this car to young, educated consumers. This demographic (of which I am a member) will invariably move up the automotive food chain in future years. If this issue is not solved to my satisfaction, it may very well impact my future buying decisions.
An A/C isn't very complex, but a car is. What if it's not the A/C system at all that's causing it, but another component of the vehicle? A faulty batch of roof insulation perhaps? Some bad wires that lead into the A/C unit? And if it's a faulty run if parts, that makes it a lot harder to find, since the problem won't be on every single car (which is true in this case).
Don't think of it as AC, nor as an AC issue. That's a bit faulty. Try thinking of it as environmental control, and you can see a lot of components go into it besides just the "A/C unit."
I have a very keen awareness of the complexities of a modern vehicle, and how seemingly unrelated parts may affect the function of specific systems,however. The air conditioning system is largely stand-alone. In order to verify it one need only check the compressor, the evaporator, the condenser, the associated piping and valves, and ensure a full supply of refrigerant. If all these check out, there is no obstruction in the vents, and the fan blows correctly, then the system functions as intended. The fact that the technician was satisfied with the temperature, and one can assume the volume of the air coming from the vents (on two seperate occasions), indicates all is as it should be. As for faulty roof insulation, short of neglecting to install it, that is a big stretch. Obviously ambient temperatures, humidity and an individuals personal preferences will also play a part in determining the effectiveness of the unit, but i am clearly not alone in questioning its capacity. I would also like to point out that the system in the 99-03 Protege was much better, which eliminates the theory that Mazda historically undersizes units in their economy cars. One can assume that this car underwent some sort of testing regimen that included hot and cold weather proving. This testing should have verified the sizing of various components, and brought to light issues prior to production (such as inadequate insulation). I know certain things get missed, but the assurance that my system works as intended, and no real commitment from Mazda to investigate and solve this issue is frustrating. I hope this will get resolved in a positive fashion, but am beginning to fear that Mazda will simply make a quiet design change in the 2005 models (before bad press creeps up), and leave people like me to sweat. I still love the car, but I for one will think twice before buying another Mazda
... and one can assume the volume of the air coming from the vents (on two seperate occasions), indicates all is as it should be...
Remember the posts last winter about the defroster being slow to clear the windows? Maybe there is a relationship between that problem and the A/C problem. Perhaps the blower is not putting out air in sufficient volume. Just a thought.
These are not exact numbers - but they are close - my memory is not that great.
When I have the fan set on 2 I get 54 degree air, set the fan on 3 air temp goes up to 60, at 4 the temp goes up to 66 degrees. Some drop in temperature as you increase fan speed will be true for all AC systems.
The problem is not just air flow - if you just increased the fan speed you would get air that is not very cool. I find that at fan speed 3 it actually cools better than on 4.
I just sold a 1981 Pontiac that had a colder AC than my 2004 Mazda3 - If you think this is acceptable then your standards are too low.
Your '81 Pontiac probably had one of those old freon-based systems... which worked like a charm. AC in general just doesn't seem to be as good now since the refrigerants are required to be more ozone-friendly.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not apologizing for Mazda here. But it's best to compare apples to apples, and in this case your '81 Pontiac is an orange.
Before someone chimes in with something like - My AC works great - if that is really true then finding a solution and fix for all the Mazda3's with defective AC systems should be that much easier - Right?
I'm not sure I see the logic here. I'm a computer programmer, not an automotive mechanic or engineer, but I find problems are much easier to troubleshoot and solve when they occur consistently than when they're sporadic. When a problem occurs across the board, you know it MUST be a significant, fundamental design flaw... not always so for occasional issues. But maybe it's different for cars, I dunno.
Is it acceptable business practice to continue selling a product when you know it has a major defect?
I think referring to underpowered AC as a "major defect" is a little bit harsh. The exploding CR-Vs and the Explorer tire snafus are major defects... this is just an underperforming element.
Is having the temperature in your car 10 degrees warmer than you'd like a major inconvenience? Yes, if you live in someplace like Houston. But designing, producing and selling something inferior is very different than designing, producing and selling something that's defective. It's not like Mazda has been explicitly promising AC performance of X and people are getting something less than that, or that the AC system is breaking (so far as I know). People just expect X and aren't happy with what they're getting. They're right to be unhappy, but I just don't see poor AC as a "major defect," just a really disappointing aspect of an otherwise pretty well-regarded product.
Of course, I live far enough north that my opinion may be somewhat skewed.
I am very happy with my Mazda3S. For a first year car, I am impressed at how well thought out most aspects are. It is still a great value for the money. I think Mazda will come up with a fix because they don't want to lose those sales in Houston, Miami, and other warm locales. It is important for us to publicize this issue so that it cannot be ignored. I remember having a Toyota Corona for 9 years, 128K miles, with NO air conditioning. With what I have now, I would rather have no A/C unit; just role the windows down. Hopefully when the fix arrives, we will be offered some sort of retrofit. Just keep up the discussion.
R134-A (VS R-12) is not the problem - Both of my other vehicles use R134-A - and they both have ice cold AC. So cold in fact that even on a 90 degree day if I leave it up at max cool it actually gets TOO COLD in the vehicle.
You post "but I find problems are much easier to trouble-shoot and solve when they occur consistently than when they're sporadic" is not really on target. I would agree if sometimes on a hot day the AC worked great and other times it did not. My AC never cools the car on hot days. It is consistently worthless. I have a hard time understanding how this problem can be that hard to figure out.
The point is if 75% of the cars have great AC performance and 25% do not - then it would be simple - replace the defective part with a good one and you are done. No need to do a bunch of testing - or change EPA mileage ratings - or test engine performance as someone posted as excuses to why it is normal / acceptable to take more than 6 months to figure out this problem.
As far as this problem being a major defect - I look at it this way. When the temp is over 90 degrees I normally leave the 2004 Mazda3 in the garage and drive my 6 year old pick up truck. If the car is not able to get me from point A to point B in reasonable comfort - then it is in my opinion a major defect. I did not buy the Mazda3 so it could sit in the garage. I could just roll down the windows - and when I get home take a shower - but that is not my idea of a good diving experience. Maybe I just have higher expectations.
"The point is if 75% of the cars have great AC performance and 25% do not - then it would be simple - replace the defective part with a good one and you are done."
Ok, which part is defective?
Oh wait, first we have to figure out WHICH cars are having the problem, so we can pick out the 25%, THEN we have to test them all and see which of the zillion parts in the car is defective (ASSUMING it's the same part in every car).
One other question: Did you offer your car to Mazda Corporate so they could do complete and through bumper-to-bumper testing on it to determine which part is defective, since you definitely have one of the 25% vehicles? Or did you want to take it back home with you? How many other 25% people do you think wanted to give up their cars long enough (weeks+) for Mazda to do that?
I suspect Mazda already has checked into this and already knows what the problem is. They're probably now figuring out the overall cheapest way to get their butts out of this one.
I also have an "underwhelming" performing A/C system. I had the dealer check it at 1500 miles when I got the oil changed, and they said the A/C was roadtested with a temp reading of 38 degrees, which would be within manuf. specs. If it was really 38, would I be bringing in the car to be checked...I don't think so. I also seem to be having a problem with inconsistent cooling (the air will be "cool" for a couple minutes, then muggy and almost warm for a couple mins) even at constant speeds. There is a TSB for the RX-8 about a similar problem, and I posted a link to it a while back... so hopefully Mazda will create a TSB for the Mazda3 soon before the summer is over
When the air is performing at its "best", it is bearable, but the air in my mom's former 97 Ford Escort was great, and typically needed to be set to mix of warm & cold air to prevent freezing hands and toes.
I love pretty much everything with my Mazda3 except for the A/C. I even have window shades for the front windshield and leave the windows cracked open to help keep the interior cooler, but it doesn't seem to help much.
R134-A (VS R-12) is not the problem - Both of my other vehicles use R134-A - and they both have ice cold AC.
Okay, now we're on apples and apples, and the comparison is fair. Like I said, I wasn't apologizing for Mazda, just trying to keep things even.
On a completely unrelated note: what on earth do you need 3 cars for (other than because one of them has crappy enough AC that you're unwilling to drive it when it's hot)?
Maybe I just have higher expectations.
Okay, so the AC blows (or rather, it doesn't), and clearly that's not living to up expectations (yours or many other people's). What do you think of the rest of the car? Any other problems? Personally, for under $20k, I find the car when taken as a whole (again, I live north) wildly exceeds my expectations.
For those reading this board who don't live in hot climates, I strongly recommend the 3; I love mine (thus far, anyway!).
"I complained about AC performance about 5 months ago"
That would mean you started complaining around February. You were using the A/C that early in the season?
I'll use the example I used before, the Infiniti G35. It's a completely different problem but there were widespread complaints about how noisy the A/C was. Some people didn't have the problem though. The car came out around March I think it was and the fix was ultimately found around August/September IIRC.
The difference here is Infiniti had told dealers and I believe even Infiniti customer service themselves were letting customers know they acknowledged the problem existed and a fix was trying to be found. The fact Mazda hasn't acknowledged the problem and at least said they're trying to find a solution should send up a red flag.
Whether they are actively looking for one or not doesn't matter, for some people this is a big deal and will go as far as to trade it in (and take the hit financially for trading in so early). To me if they really are looking for a fix they should at least say something. It's unprofessional because some people will be left wondering if they're trying to fix it or even care at all.
If the complaints are widespread (I don't know if they are or not) and they STILL won't acknowledge it then to me it's obvious that the fix will be expensive and they simply will take their chances at making some customers unhappy. If it's not widespread and they don't acknowledge the problem I still think it's a case of being too expensive.
The problem here is some people run the A/C ALL the time. I only run the A/C in the summer and on the first two lowest settings, but I know people that run the A/C 80% or more throughout the year and almost always run it in the highest setting. Does Mazda think that these types of people are the only ones complaining? Since Mazda hasn't acknowledged a problem it's pure speculation whether they honestly feel it's a problem or they feel it's these types of people only that are complaining.
If they did say there's a problem with the A/C they run the risk of having people that didn't think it was THAT bad but would want the TSB or recall done anyway. This all goes back to the fix being expensive or not. Honestly if it is expensive then it may be better to sweep it under the rug.
What if a customer comes in knowing about the TSB for the A/C and complains but the dealership finds no problem with it? This will enrage the customer because it's not cold enough yet the dealership finds it to be sufficient. Some people get hot more easily than others. This may just be a case of a weak A/C and some people simply won't like it or it may be a legitimate problem.
Which one is it? Who knows. They will either fix it in later Mazda3's (if they haven't already) and leave the early customers holding the bag or they think it's a weak A/C and not worth fixing. That is the only way I think Mazda is in the right, it being a case of a working but overall weak A/C compared to other cars. If it's any other case then I think they're being unprofessional by not helping the customer be satisfied with the car and giving them a decent working A/C. I think it all comes down to it being an EXPENSIVE fix if they never come clean and admit to the problem. If it's a case of a working but weak A/C (compared to other cars) then I think Mazda has a case and it's unfortunately one of those things that people take the chance when buying a new car out of the gate.
"The difference here is Infiniti had told dealers and I believe even Infiniti customer service themselves were letting customers know they acknowledged the problem existed and a fix was trying to be found. The fact Mazda hasn't acknowledged the problem and at least said they're trying to find a solution should send up a red flag."
Mazda HAS acknowledged it. They're currently doing testing to pinpoint the problem so they can issue a fix. Probably end up being a voluntary recall if they can get a handle on the affected VIN series, to avoid the TSB issue you were mentioning. A recall with a specific VIN series can exclude a lot of the ones who cry "wolf."
You always miss the point - Mazda should know by now which part is defective - do you think that they have been working on this problem for 5-6 months and still don't have a clue as to why the AC does not cool the car.
I did offer to let Mazda corporate use my car to try and fix the AC problem. They did not even bother to reply to my E-mail.
I also ask them about the RX8 - which has a problem with the AC amplifier - if you read the Mazda service bulletin (07-002/04) it describes my problem to a T. I did call my dealer and ask for the part number of the AC amplifier for both the Mazda3 and the RX8 - I was hoping they were the same part number - they are not.
PREZ - I live in Houston Texas it is hot and humid all year long - so yes I use the AC in February. If you lived here you would too.
Drywall 3 vehicles - I use my 4x4 truck mostly to pull my boat (sometimes a travel trailer) - when it was new it was my daily driver - but it still has a lot of miles left in it and having an old PU has its advantages - I can go off road now and don't really care if I get a few chips in the paint.
I also have a Tahoe - that my wife uses most of the time - we also use the Tahoe on our family trips and to pull the TT. By the time we load everything up I always wish we would have purchased the Suburban. I
My daughter (gets her DL next week) will eventually get the Mazda3.
I have had a few other problems with the Mazda3 -rear brake dust & CEL that took 3 trips to the dealer before it was fixed. I can live with these - The AC issue is different -
I have a 3i 5speed with 800 or so miles on it and there's a slight clicking noise coming from the lower right side of the dash that you can only hear without the radio or air conditioning on. It makes the noise when going over semi-rough pavement or bumps. I took it to the dealer and they said they did something to the door to fix it but of course it's still doing it. What's the best way to get this corrected without seeming like a picky freak. It will eventually drive me nuts. Do I have to ride in the car with them to point out the noise? Do all cars make some noises that you just have to live with? I'm sort of at a loss. Thanks in advance.
I thought about keys...and change and everything else that I could have added to make noise. It's just something internal in the dash. It's driving me nuts, though!
Well, I haven't noticed anything else clicking. You sure you don't have something in the ashtray that might be moving? Broken piece of plastic or something? Maybe you should yank it out and check again.
I have a Mazda3 hatch with about 16K miles now, and I am quite unhappy with the performance of the AC, I have emailed mazda and they replied - nothing useful or promising, they asked me to try another dealer... Recently, I was on a trip to the death valley, CA in a rented Sentra and the AC was very cool even when the weather was schorhing hot outside... Also I noticed the car was so much quiter than my mazda3 when the windows are open while travelling... That is another thing that I wish the Mazda was better.
So here are my complaints with my auto tranny M3.
1) AC 2) Road noise 3) Need more torque (may be manual is better) 4) Brake dust
If you have been reading this board you know I am also a very unhappy customer - the weather forecast for Houston this week is sunny - mid to upper 90's and Houston as always will have high humidity. This kind of conditions means I will park the Mazda3 (during the day anyway) and drive my old PU truck.
Based on your E-mail it sounds like Mazda is not even going to try and fix our problem. When I E-mailed them they gave me this reply :
Dear William,
Thank you for contacting Mazda North American Operations. I appreciate the opportunity to respond to you.
I have spoken with our Product Engineering Department regarding your inquiry. They advised that Mazda is aware of this concern, and it is under further investigation with our Engineers in Japan.
If they are now just telling customers to go see another dealer they have changed their tune.
Shame on Mazda for treating your customers this way.
Hi z71bill, I have been reading this board on the ac complaints. My previous car did not have AC and so a cold AC is a high priority for me, but it turned out to be a little unfortunate, though the summer will be over here in a couple of months and though I dont drive or park that often in very hot weather (I would rather ride my motorcycle then)..., I really wish Mazda does something to make its customers happy. In the future I will be careful about buying a new model since it will have some problems in the first one or two years....
This is my first post on Edmunds. It's been entertaining and enlightening reading these Mazda3 discussions. Just put down a deposit for a 3S 4-door here in MA. The manufacture date is April 04.
Yesterday I made a point of trying out the A/C on the dealer lot. Seemed like a fair test -- the car had been sitting in the 87 degree sun all day with all windows closed. I climbed in, kept all windows shut, idled the engine cranked up the A/C.
Took about 2 or 3 minutes for the air to cool down to a reasonable temperature -- and after about 5 minutes it was very comfortable for me.
I can see why folks in the hotter climates would be very concerned about the A/C issue -- but for my needs (at least in the case of my particular car) I expect to be a very contented Mazda owner. This will be my 4th Mazda -- and have never experienced serious mechanical problems or design flaws with any of their cars.
With that said, I do hope Mazda responds to this issue soon.
I did the same test before purchasing the Mazda3 (except it was only around 80 degrees) - I was concerned that a black interior would be hard to cool - I wanted to make sure before I signed on the dotted line.
I still ended up with the AC defect -
Just for fun ask the dealer what they will do if - after you have the car a few weeks/months -you are not happy with the AC performance. They will of course say that since the car will be under warranty it will be fixed. Then ask them HOW WILL THEY DETERMINE IF THE AC IS WORKING OR NOT. In other words WHAT IS THE STANDARD that they use to determine AC performance.
Guess what - they have NO STANDARD. As long as cool air is coming out of the vent & the pressure reading on the system are within factory specs that is good enough. So if on a 95 degree day the temperature inside your car is 91 degrees Mazda does not consider this to be a problem.
I would be interested to know how your dealer answers these questions.
I did the same test before purchasing the Mazda3 (except it was only around 80 degrees) - I was concerned that a black interior would be hard to cool - I wanted to make sure before I signed on the dotted line.
I still ended up with the AC defect -
Just for fun ask the dealer what they will do if - after you have the car a few weeks/months -you are not happy with the AC performance. They will of course say that since the car will be under warranty it will be fixed. Then ask them HOW WILL THEY DETERMINE IF THE AC IS WORKING OR NOT. In other words WHAT IS THE STANDARD that they use to determine AC performance.
Guess what - they have NO STANDARD. As long as cool air is coming out of the vent & the pressure reading on the system are within factory specs that is good enough. So if on a 95 degree day the temperature inside your car is 91 degrees Mazda does not consider this to be a problem.
I would be interested to know how your dealer answers these questions.
"Hey". I've had my M3 5 door for about 450 miles. My concern isn't with the MPG (about 23 city with almost no break-in period thus far). But, I may have a fuel gauge calibration problem.
I'm at 1/2 tank after only 100 miles, and the "low fuel" light comes on at about 250 miles. I filled it up, and only got a tad over 11 gallons in a 14.5 gallon tank.
Is that normal, or can they re-calibrate the fuel gauge? A buddy said foreign cars are like that, and he wasn't surprised to see about 4 gallons left after the low fuel light. But, I've had a Toyota and a Honda, and there were only about 1.5 gallons left when the light came on.
So, based on what you folks are seeing on your M3s, do I have a calibration issue or is it standard? It's just a bit annoying to be on 1/2 tank after only 100 miles.
We drove a M3s sedan last night with the sole purpose of evaluating the AC (I'm the guy moving to Tampa). It was about 6 PM on a 90 degree day in Chicago with high humidity.
The AC *was weak* and did not cool the car effectively. The salesman even noticed this and changed the AC to recycle the air inside the cabin.
What was interesting is that we also drove a M6i; same engine, bigger car. And it cooled off just fine. If the AC systems were equal, you would think the M3s would cool off better: same engine, smaller car in terms of cabin space (and weight). But this was not the case.
Not claiming that this was very scientific but it sure seems to me that something is wrong the the AC on the M3. I cannot roll the dice on this in Tampa, AC is too important in that climate. So the M3 is off my list which is a real shame.
I have had my 3s for about 2 months and I can tell you that it does not have a great AC. Before I got this car I had a 92 Nissan 240SX which I consider to have had a great AC system (on some days you could see moisture condencing on the air when it was on high in Tucson). I moved to Denver about 2 years ago and never had the 240's AC on high. It was just too cold.
Yesterday was the first day that I have felt like the 3s AC was under powered. It was just that I had left the car out all day in the 95 degree weather in direct sun light. So the interior was just too hot for the AC to take effect and at 4:30 in the after noon opening the windows does nothing since it is still almost 90.
On the other hand I always felt that the AC in my wifes 2001 Civic LX Sedan was under powered, even in the Denver area most June to August days my wife's car doesn't cool down on the 15 to 20 minute highway drive from work. The 3s seems to have a stronger AC than her Civic but not by much. Now I have done no temperature testing but this is just my feelings on the subject. One other note, her car is the gold color with tan interior and my is Titanium Grey with the Black Cloth interior. Who car do you expect to be hotter and which should cool down faster? Well the answer is the 3 is hotter but cools down faster.
If you wanted a car that would immediately have cool air then you will have to pay more than the $16K we both paid for our cars.
Comments
Since you've offered to help him make it easier to not use a selt belt, maybe you could talk coach him with some speeding or reckless driving tips too. Or how about buying him a six-pack of beer to drink while he's driving? Why stop with the seat belt?
My sister drives drunk sometimes. What do I tell her? "I hope you get arrested before you hurt or kill somebody". I'm sure not going to assist her in her irresponsible behaviour in any way.
So, nobody here is going to help you either, on the Mazda3 or any other car for that matter.
I've had the same hard-start issue with my Mazda3 (hatch, 2.3, auto) over the last month. It's worse in the morning, and also when the car has been left in the sun. They replaced the relay in the ignition just yesterday, hoping that would do it, but it didn't do anything really. It takes 4-5 seconds to start a brand-new car. Bizarre.
perrito
I think many readers forget that the people who visit this forum are only a small percentage of overall 3 owners, and that people in general are more likely to report a problem than praise the lack thereof.
EVERY first-year model vehicle is going to have some problems; the fact that the Mazda3 has been out for 7 months now and hasn't had a recall should set your mind (somewhat) at ease. How many other new model cars can claim that?
The simple answer is that it comes down to what you feel comfortable with. Personally, I couldn't wait to sign on the dotted line, and I haven't regretted my decision for one moment since.
But these posts about the A/C being weak are giving me second thoughts, the last thing I need in Tampa in August is weak A/C!
Anybody in a warm climate think the A/C works fine? Do all 3's have weak A/C or is it just a problem with some cars?
I wish I had thought to try the A/C out when I test-drove; but I already told the local dealer I will be buying in Florida so I don't really want to ask for another test-drive. Functional A/C is something I took for granted.
The AC works fine on a cool cloudy day - but who need a cold AC on a cool cloudy day? - When the temp is above 85 and the sun is out the AC in the Mazda3 does not cool the car - cool air comes out of the vent - but the car never really gets cool. After a few hours in the Mazda3 on a hot day - the back of my shirt is wet with sweat.
The dealer says AC is working as designed - Mazda customer service told me to go see my states attorney general if I have a problem with the AC performance -
So is Mazda incompetent or do they just not care about the customer? It could be both.
The simple fact is - if you need a cold AC system - then you should take the Mazda3 off your shopping list. If you live somewhere that only has a few hot days or if you don't mind sweating as you drive down the highway - then the Mazda3 MAY be a good choice.
What about the insulation, or perhaps lack thereof. You mention that on a cloudy day, the car does not get as hot and the A/C seems to perform more adequately. Maybe Mazda didn't insulate the roof well enough to protect against radiant heat from the sun, or maybe the glass they used doesn't insulate well enough. Engineers have to think about everything, not just the customer's happiness. Give them the time do fix it right. I hate to say it, but if it's a fix on a large enough scale, they'll wait until a model year changeover.
It is a shame because I really liked the 3. Maybe I should go with a 2005 Ford Focus instead.
Not yet... but I've probably driven it less than 200 miles thus far, and I'm so focused on driving the stick (never got around to learning that...) that I'm not very likely to notice some of the more subtle issues. Thus far, everything seems well. Though I can spot some brake dust on the rear rims already... anyone tried to piece together whether the rear dust is better or worse on cars with the ABS/EBD package?
Anyway, from what I can tell, the dust isn't really so much a problem as just an anomaly. The rims are really open, so I can see how this car would show more dust than others -- just weird that it's on the back wheels.
Auto air conditioning has been around for several decades - it is really not new technology. How hard can it be for a competent auto company to design an AC system that cools a car. I just sold a 1981 Pontiac that had a colder AC than my 2004 Mazda3 - If you think this is acceptable then your standards are too low.
Don't you think Mazda should have identified this problem BEFORE the car was put into production?
Is it acceptable business practice to continue selling a product when you know it has a major defect? If you say yes (as Mazda obviously has) then taking a year or two to solve the problem is no big deal (unless you are one of the people who happen to buy a car with a defect).
BTW - I ran one of the largest manufacturing companies in Texas for over 15 years - its products are sold in all 50 states (USA) and about 25 other countries (including Canada). When I took over responsibility for the company it was one of the smaller companies in our industry -it is now the largest - I think I know a little bit about how things work. Not claiming to know everything about everything - but I darn well know how long it should take to figure out this type of a problem - and it is much closer to 6 weeks than 6 months. This of course assumes that you have employees that know what the heck they are doing and a management team that is paying attention to the business.
And please - before someone chimes in with something like - My AC works great - if that is really true then finding a solution and fix for all the Mazda3's with defective AC systems should be that much easier - Right?
Then again, I've owned a few VW's which are known to have weak A/C systems.
On top of that I'm one of the last persons to ever complain about either heat or cold. (I've lived in Germany for several years - I know what cold is.)
Don't know if this has been of help to anyone or not, just my 2 cents.
Mazda is attempting to market this car to young, educated consumers. This demographic (of which I am a member) will invariably move up the automotive food chain in future years. If this issue is not solved to my satisfaction, it may very well impact my future buying decisions.
Don't think of it as AC, nor as an AC issue. That's a bit faulty. Try thinking of it as environmental control, and you can see a lot of components go into it besides just the "A/C unit."
Obviously ambient temperatures, humidity and an individuals personal preferences will also play a part in determining the effectiveness of the unit, but i am clearly not alone in questioning its capacity. I would also like to point out that the system in the 99-03 Protege was much better, which eliminates the theory that Mazda historically undersizes units in their economy cars.
One can assume that this car underwent some sort of testing regimen that included hot and cold weather proving. This testing should have verified the sizing of various components, and brought to light issues prior to production (such as inadequate insulation).
I know certain things get missed, but the assurance that my system works as intended, and no real commitment from Mazda to investigate and solve this issue is frustrating.
I hope this will get resolved in a positive fashion, but am beginning to fear that Mazda will simply make a quiet design change in the 2005 models (before bad press creeps up), and leave people like me to sweat. I still love the car, but I for one will think twice before buying another Mazda
Remember the posts last winter about the defroster being slow to clear the windows? Maybe there is a relationship between that problem and the A/C problem. Perhaps the blower is not putting out air in sufficient volume. Just a thought.
When I have the fan set on 2 I get 54 degree air, set the fan on 3 air temp goes up to 60, at 4 the temp goes up to 66 degrees. Some drop in temperature as you increase fan speed will be true for all AC systems.
The problem is not just air flow - if you just increased the fan speed you would get air that is not very cool. I find that at fan speed 3 it actually cools better than on 4.
Your '81 Pontiac probably had one of those old freon-based systems... which worked like a charm. AC in general just doesn't seem to be as good now since the refrigerants are required to be more ozone-friendly.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not apologizing for Mazda here. But it's best to compare apples to apples, and in this case your '81 Pontiac is an orange.
Before someone chimes in with something like - My AC works great - if that is really true then finding a solution and fix for all the Mazda3's with defective AC systems should be that much easier - Right?
I'm not sure I see the logic here. I'm a computer programmer, not an automotive mechanic
or engineer, but I find problems are much easier to troubleshoot and solve when they occur consistently than when they're sporadic. When a problem occurs across the board, you know it MUST be a significant, fundamental design flaw... not always so for occasional issues. But maybe it's different for cars, I dunno.
Is it acceptable business practice to continue selling a product when you know it has a major defect?
I think referring to underpowered AC as a "major defect" is a little bit harsh. The exploding CR-Vs and the Explorer tire snafus are major defects... this is just an underperforming element.
Is having the temperature in your car 10 degrees warmer than you'd like a major inconvenience? Yes, if you live in someplace like Houston. But designing, producing and selling something inferior is very different than designing, producing and selling something that's defective. It's not like Mazda has been explicitly promising AC performance of X and people are getting something less than that, or that the AC system is breaking (so far as I know). People just expect X and aren't happy with what they're getting. They're right to be unhappy, but I just don't see poor AC as a "major defect," just a really disappointing aspect of an otherwise pretty well-regarded product.
Of course, I live far enough north that my opinion may be somewhat skewed.
You post "but I find problems are much easier to trouble-shoot and solve when they occur consistently than when they're sporadic" is not really on target. I would agree if sometimes on a hot day the AC worked great and other times it did not. My AC never cools the car on hot days. It is consistently worthless. I have a hard time understanding how this problem can be that hard to figure out.
The point is if 75% of the cars have great AC performance and 25% do not - then it would be simple - replace the defective part with a good one and you are done. No need to do a bunch of testing - or change EPA mileage ratings - or test engine performance as someone posted as excuses to why it is normal / acceptable to take more than 6 months to figure out this problem.
As far as this problem being a major defect - I look at it this way. When the temp is over 90 degrees I normally leave the 2004 Mazda3 in the garage and drive my 6 year old pick up truck. If the car is not able to get me from point A to point B in reasonable comfort - then it is in my opinion a major defect. I did not buy the Mazda3 so it could sit in the garage. I could just roll down the windows - and when I get home take a shower - but that is not my idea of a good diving experience. Maybe I just have higher expectations.
Ok, which part is defective?
Oh wait, first we have to figure out WHICH cars are having the problem, so we can pick out the 25%, THEN we have to test them all and see which of the zillion parts in the car is defective (ASSUMING it's the same part in every car).
One other question: Did you offer your car to Mazda Corporate so they could do complete and through bumper-to-bumper testing on it to determine which part is defective, since you definitely have one of the 25% vehicles? Or did you want to take it back home with you? How many other 25% people do you think wanted to give up their cars long enough (weeks+) for Mazda to do that?
I'm waiting to see a TSB on this any day now.
When the air is performing at its "best", it is bearable, but the air in my mom's former 97 Ford Escort was great, and typically needed to be set to mix of warm & cold air to prevent freezing hands and toes.
I love pretty much everything with my Mazda3 except for the A/C. I even have window shades for the front windshield and leave the windows cracked open to help keep the interior cooler, but it doesn't seem to help much.
BTW I have a 1/04 build date.
Okay, now we're on apples and apples, and the comparison is fair. Like I said, I wasn't apologizing for Mazda, just trying to keep things even.
On a completely unrelated note: what on earth do you need 3 cars for (other than because one of them has crappy enough AC that you're unwilling to drive it when it's hot)?
Maybe I just have higher expectations.
Okay, so the AC blows (or rather, it doesn't), and clearly that's not living to up expectations (yours or many other people's). What do you think of the rest of the car? Any other problems? Personally, for under $20k, I find the car when taken as a whole (again, I live north) wildly exceeds my expectations.
For those reading this board who don't live in hot climates, I strongly recommend the 3; I love mine (thus far, anyway!).
That would mean you started complaining around February. You were using the A/C that early in the season?
I'll use the example I used before, the Infiniti G35. It's a completely different problem but there were widespread complaints about how noisy the A/C was. Some people didn't have the problem though. The car came out around March I think it was and the fix was ultimately found around August/September IIRC.
The difference here is Infiniti had told dealers and I believe even Infiniti customer service themselves were letting customers know they acknowledged the problem existed and a fix was trying to be found. The fact Mazda hasn't acknowledged the problem and at least said they're trying to find a solution should send up a red flag.
Whether they are actively looking for one or not doesn't matter, for some people this is a big deal and will go as far as to trade it in (and take the hit financially for trading in so early). To me if they really are looking for a fix they should at least say something. It's unprofessional because some people will be left wondering if they're trying to fix it or even care at all.
If the complaints are widespread (I don't know if they are or not) and they STILL won't acknowledge it then to me it's obvious that the fix will be expensive and they simply will take their chances at making some customers unhappy. If it's not widespread and they don't acknowledge the problem I still think it's a case of being too expensive.
The problem here is some people run the A/C ALL the time. I only run the A/C in the summer and on the first two lowest settings, but I know people that run the A/C 80% or more throughout the year and almost always run it in the highest setting. Does Mazda think that these types of people are the only ones complaining? Since Mazda hasn't acknowledged a problem it's pure speculation whether they honestly feel it's a problem or they feel it's these types of people only that are complaining.
If they did say there's a problem with the A/C they run the risk of having people that didn't think it was THAT bad but would want the TSB or recall done anyway. This all goes back to the fix being expensive or not. Honestly if it is expensive then it may be better to sweep it under the rug.
What if a customer comes in knowing about the TSB for the A/C and complains but the dealership finds no problem with it? This will enrage the customer because it's not cold enough yet the dealership finds it to be sufficient. Some people get hot more easily than others. This may just be a case of a weak A/C and some people simply won't like it or it may be a legitimate problem.
Which one is it? Who knows. They will either fix it in later Mazda3's (if they haven't already) and leave the early customers holding the bag or they think it's a weak A/C and not worth fixing. That is the only way I think Mazda is in the right, it being a case of a working but overall weak A/C compared to other cars. If it's any other case then I think they're being unprofessional by not helping the customer be satisfied with the car and giving them a decent working A/C. I think it all comes down to it being an EXPENSIVE fix if they never come clean and admit to the problem. If it's a case of a working but weak A/C (compared to other cars) then I think Mazda has a case and it's unfortunately one of those things that people take the chance when buying a new car out of the gate.
Mazda HAS acknowledged it. They're currently doing testing to pinpoint the problem so they can issue a fix. Probably end up being a voluntary recall if they can get a handle on the affected VIN series, to avoid the TSB issue you were mentioning. A recall with a specific VIN series can exclude a lot of the ones who cry "wolf."
Oops, then my last post was a waste of time. If they've acknowledged it and are trying to find a fix then there's nothing more to do but wait it out.
I did offer to let Mazda corporate use my car to try and fix the AC problem. They did not even bother to reply to my E-mail.
I also ask them about the RX8 - which has a problem with the AC amplifier - if you read the Mazda service bulletin (07-002/04) it describes my problem to a T. I did call my dealer and ask for the part number of the AC amplifier for both the Mazda3 and the RX8 - I was hoping they were the same part number - they are not.
PREZ - I live in Houston Texas it is hot and humid all year long - so yes I use the AC in February. If you lived here you would too.
Drywall
3 vehicles - I use my 4x4 truck mostly to pull my boat (sometimes a travel trailer) - when it was new it was my daily driver - but it still has a lot of miles left in it and having an old PU has its advantages - I can go off road now and don't really care if I get a few chips in the paint.
I also have a Tahoe - that my wife uses most of the time - we also use the Tahoe on our family trips and to pull the TT. By the time we load everything up I always wish we would have purchased the Suburban. I
My daughter (gets her DL next week) will eventually get the Mazda3.
I have had a few other problems with the Mazda3 -rear brake dust & CEL that took 3 trips to the dealer before it was fixed. I can live with these - The AC issue is different -
So here are my complaints with my auto tranny M3.
1) AC
2) Road noise
3) Need more torque (may be manual is better)
4) Brake dust
Based on your E-mail it sounds like Mazda is not even going to try and fix our problem. When I E-mailed them they gave me this reply :
Dear William,
Thank you for contacting Mazda North American Operations. I appreciate the opportunity to respond to you.
I have spoken with our Product Engineering Department regarding your
inquiry. They advised that Mazda is aware of this concern, and it is
under further investigation with our Engineers in Japan.
If they are now just telling customers to go see another dealer they have changed their tune.
Shame on Mazda for treating your customers this way.
Yesterday I made a point of trying out the A/C on the dealer lot. Seemed like a fair test -- the car had been sitting in the 87 degree sun all day with all windows closed. I climbed in, kept all windows shut, idled the engine cranked up the A/C.
Took about 2 or 3 minutes for the air to cool down to a reasonable temperature -- and after about 5 minutes it was very comfortable for me.
I can see why folks in the hotter climates would be very concerned about the A/C issue -- but for my needs (at least in the case of my particular car) I expect to be a very contented Mazda owner. This will be my 4th Mazda -- and have never experienced serious mechanical problems or design flaws with any of their cars.
With that said, I do hope Mazda responds to this issue soon.
I still ended up with the AC defect -
Just for fun ask the dealer what they will do if - after you have the car a few weeks/months -you are not happy with the AC performance. They will of course say that since the car will be under warranty it will be fixed. Then ask them HOW WILL THEY DETERMINE IF THE AC IS WORKING OR NOT. In other words WHAT IS THE STANDARD that they use to determine AC performance.
Guess what - they have NO STANDARD. As long as cool air is coming out of the vent & the pressure reading on the system are within factory specs that is good enough. So if on a 95 degree day the temperature inside your car is 91 degrees Mazda does not consider this to be a problem.
I would be interested to know how your dealer answers these questions.
I still ended up with the AC defect -
Just for fun ask the dealer what they will do if - after you have the car a few weeks/months -you are not happy with the AC performance. They will of course say that since the car will be under warranty it will be fixed. Then ask them HOW WILL THEY DETERMINE IF THE AC IS WORKING OR NOT. In other words WHAT IS THE STANDARD that they use to determine AC performance.
Guess what - they have NO STANDARD. As long as cool air is coming out of the vent & the pressure reading on the system are within factory specs that is good enough. So if on a 95 degree day the temperature inside your car is 91 degrees Mazda does not consider this to be a problem.
I would be interested to know how your dealer answers these questions.
I'm at 1/2 tank after only 100 miles, and the "low fuel" light comes on at about 250 miles. I filled it up, and only got a tad over 11 gallons in a 14.5 gallon tank.
Is that normal, or can they re-calibrate the fuel gauge? A buddy said foreign cars are like that, and he wasn't surprised to see about 4 gallons left after the low fuel light. But, I've had a Toyota and a Honda, and there were only about 1.5 gallons left when the light came on.
So, based on what you folks are seeing on your M3s, do I have a calibration issue or is it standard? It's just a bit annoying to be on 1/2 tank after only 100 miles.
Thanks for the gut check!
Rick
The AC *was weak* and did not cool the car effectively. The salesman even noticed this and changed the AC to recycle the air inside the cabin.
What was interesting is that we also drove a M6i; same engine, bigger car. And it cooled off just fine. If the AC systems were equal, you would think the M3s would cool off better: same engine, smaller car in terms of cabin space (and weight). But this was not the case.
Not claiming that this was very scientific but it sure seems to me that something is wrong the the AC on the M3. I cannot roll the dice on this in Tampa, AC is too important in that climate. So the M3 is off my list which is a real shame.
Considering you are moving to Tampa - you are making the right decision - a car without a good AC would be hard to live with.
Yesterday was the first day that I have felt like the 3s AC was under powered. It was just that I had left the car out all day in the 95 degree weather in direct sun light. So the interior was just too hot for the AC to take effect and at 4:30 in the after noon opening the windows does nothing since it is still almost 90.
On the other hand I always felt that the AC in my wifes 2001 Civic LX Sedan was under powered, even in the Denver area most June to August days my wife's car doesn't cool down on the 15 to 20 minute highway drive from work. The 3s seems to have a stronger AC than her Civic but not by much. Now I have done no temperature testing but this is just my feelings on the subject. One other note, her car is the gold color with tan interior and my is Titanium Grey with the Black Cloth interior. Who car do you expect to be hotter and which should cool down faster? Well the answer is the 3 is hotter but cools down faster.
If you wanted a car that would immediately have cool air then you will have to pay more than the $16K we both paid for our cars.
Corey