BMW X3 vs Subaru Forester XT vs Infiniti FX 35 vs Toyota RAV4

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I disagree. Sales do not equal good styling. Explorer isn't the best looking SUV, not by a long shot. It's not even in my top 20.

    -juice
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    "Explorer isn't the best looking SUV, not by a long shot."

    Hey, there's no accounting for taste. I happen to think Ford SUVs are the best looking. Why? Good proportions, lines... no exaggerated features... minimal. I love Audi wagons for the same reason.
  • kcrudupkcrudup Member Posts: 26
    "How anyone can look at any of the recently-redone or forthcoming offerings from BMW and think "wow - great looking cars!" is utterly beyond me. They are butt-ugly."

    I love the look of the new BMWs- I almost bought a 540i (but got an FX45 instead) and have loved the look of the new 7-series since I first saw it.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    It's your money. I'm certainly not alone in holding the opposite view. I have yet to read even one single review of the newer BMWs that had any complimentary things to say about the new bodies. On the contrary - they've been almost universally panned.
  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    "But mariner, these guys are stuck in neutral where aesthetics are concerned - not to mention performance. "

    - Uh, the Forester XT is second fastest SUV on the market next to the Porsche Cayenne Turbo.

    I will give Infiniti this, the FX has road presence whether you like the looks or not. They definitely stand out.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    So does a bad haircut. Standing out is not necessarily a good thing.

    As for being stuck in neutral, that's what X3 and FX drivers seem to be when XTs go blasting past. The XT provides more smiles per dollar than anything else in the category.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    I think it's perfectly natural for sports cars to have panache and stand out, like fashion models who are well-endowed.

    SUVs? An SUV that tries to make a fashion statement is about as attractive and ridiculous as some fat slob who shows up on a beach in leopard-skin Speedo.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Ford SUVs are the best looking...Good proportions, lines...no exaggerated features... minimal. I love Audi wagons for the same reason.

    I'd grant that the latest Explorers are definite improvements over the earlier ones, but I'd never, ever mention them in the same breath with the breathtaking Audi Avants. Now those are clean, classy, sophisticated designs - unlike anything new lately from BMW.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Was talking about SUVs. Wagons are a different story and I wasn't comparing the two. All SUVs are fat slobs. The difference with Ford is that they don't dress them in the leopard-skin Speedo.
  • fx35_rulesfx35_rules Member Posts: 3
    It's not about speed (although it has plenty for me). It's not about handling (handles great). It's not about money (I agree based purely on the raw numbers the Subaru is a better deal). It's about style. That is what we (FX owners) are talking about here. A vehicle that is not about blending in and being "another gray box" but being unique.

    And make no mistake- form does follow function here - an SUV this big that grips the road and handles like a sports car must be doing something right.

    I put the FX in the same category as the Apple Macintosh (shouldn't have opened that can of worms!), Mini Cooper, etc... Think outside the box–don't drive one!
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    "I put the FX in the same category as the Apple Macintosh (shouldn't have opened that can of worms!)"

    Please tell me you don't have a Mac. If so I'll throw mine out the window right now. ;-)
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    There's the difference, that's for sure. The Macintosh has zero appeal to me. Likewise the abomination called the new Mini. The original Austin Mini was a huge leap forward in barebones transporation. The new BMW-"inspired" one is overweight, oversized (for its capacity, compared to the original), unattractive, and overpriced.

    As for the FX or X3, I simply don't have a strong enough stomach to own either one.
  • petewat3petewat3 Member Posts: 83
    lol..............yep.
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    if someone likes the looks and that is the biggest reason, buy it. but someone explain to me how anyone can buy a pontaic aztek. are they blind lol.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    "The Macintosh has zero appeal to me."

    You just went from being Albert Einstein to Curly in my mind. Just kiddin'
  • fx35_rulesfx35_rules Member Posts: 3
    Loyal Mac owner since the original 128
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    ...and that's the prettiest vehicle in Bangle's portfolio.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    "The Macintosh has zero appeal to me."

    If you were in a creative profession, you'd be saying the same about a PC. In advertising, graphic design, etc., MACs rule.

    Bob
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Yooda man!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Explorer is not ugly, but it's the farthest from "Stylish" that comes to mind. It is ultra-conservative, even boring.

    I do think the FX is among the most stylish SUVs, now that can be good or bad, depending upon your own tastes.

    I'll give the XC90 props for managing to be both stylish and practical, though.

    -juice
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    In case it wasn't already obvious, I'm a substance-over-sizzle guy. The very first Mac ads at the Superbowl long ago were so profoundly insulting and offensive that nothing Jobs has ever done since could reverse that overwhelmingly negative reaction.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    For your information, that very first Mac ad that ran in the 1984 Super Bowl is considered by advertising pundits as the best ad that has ever been made.

    Furthermore, I work intensely on BOTH Mac and PC platforms and am here to tell you that PCs are Yugos, Macs are Lamborghinis!
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    i have to be creative and very careful about the spots i pickout
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    That "so profoundly insulting and offensive" commercial you refer to is considered by many to be one one of the greatest TV commercials ever.

    Bob
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    I'm well aware of that, and I think that's a shocking indictment of the advertising community. I would/will never support any product whose ads savage intelligent, thoughtful users of competing products as that one did. It was in horrifically bad taste.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    that if you use a PC in a profession like graphic design, you're just asking for trouble. It's like being in France and all you can speak is Spanish. Yeah, you can survive, but you're doing it the hard way. The advertising/graphic design world is probably 90% – 95% MAC-oriented.

    Bob
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    "It was in horrifically bad taste."

    The Bud ad in this year's Super Bowl with the horse that farted... THAT was in bad taste.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I agree with you on many things, but not when it comes to your creative comments.

    Bob
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    the horse that farted... THAT was in bad taste.

    Nothing but agreement from me on that. This year's entire crop of ads was pathetic. When was the last time you saw an ad in which a vicious mongrel dog jumped up and clamped its jaws on a woman's breast? Yet somehow it's suppposed to be funny, to some retarded element of the populace, when it happens to a man.

    Heads should (and, I predict) will, roll.
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Mobil with their tagline... "Drive your engine clean" What a crock.

    Story...
    I have a friend who was a militant non-smoker, yet he was an Art Director on the Winston account. Compromise your principles? Happens every day in the advertising world.

    On the other hand, I know of people who have left the profession rather than be hypocrites.
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    I'm not sure I see the relevance of either unless you're talking about horsepower in relation to the latter.

    tidester, host
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Sorry. Yep, I had a feeling that was coming. ;-)
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Nice try! ;-)

    tidester, host
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    I agree with you on many things, but not when it comes to your creative comments.

    I have no quarrel with the Mac, although I also have no interest in it. I don't even have a problem with Mac users, except when some of them sneer at the allegedly self-evident low IQs - knuckledraggers, don'tcha know? - of anyone using anything else. My issue is with the collective mindset, from top to bottom, of the company that makes Macs.
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Although we advise against it, if you must compute and drive then the Mac is the best choice as the single button mouse control is less demanding of the driver's attention than those complicated multibuttoned-wheeled varieties prevalent in the pc world. That the shape coordinates with your vehicle is icing on the cake! :-)

    tidester, host
  • fx35_rulesfx35_rules Member Posts: 3
    That reminds me of a (true) story...

    When I was in design school (20+ years ago...YIKES) we were asked by our packaging design instructor to come up with packaging for a new brand of cigarettes that would be marketed to children.

    We all spent the next week designing endless variations on that theme. Hours and hours of design concepts... When we arrived for our class the following week, as usual, we all pinned our sketches on the wall for our instructor to review.

    The instructor came in to the room, walked up to the board and tore up all of the sketches. We were stunned. He then turned around, looked us in the eye and said, very seriously. "You have to draw the line in this business - and know when to say NO".

    It was a very powerful lesson....
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    That was a very interesting story. I wonder if anything remotely like that ever happens in law school?

    Nah. Of course not. What was I thinking?
  • kcrudupkcrudup Member Posts: 26
    Yeah, I've heard the sneers re: the designs, from other folks, too. I just don't get it. If I had $90K+ to drop on car, I'd have a 745i in my garage right now- it's a very nice looking car!
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I like Bangles designs. If he hadn't done anything, he would have been mocked in the industry as well. Very tough spot to be in, tampering with what most people consider to be perfection.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    it would go for an Acura NSX.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    "I like Bangles designs. If he hadn't done anything, he would have been mocked in the industry as well."

    Bangle will be mocked plenty when the stack of negative sales figures rolls in, but not as much as BMW for going with his trash.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    Great call!!! FX does look like a Mac. Love the Mac but hate the look. Looks like hockey helmet that was run over by an FX.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    artists and designers who were trashed in their own time because they were deemed too "radical," and who, over time, have proven to be leaders in their field. I wouldn't write off Chris Bangles just yet.

    Don't believe me? Study the art and times of Monet, Manet, Renoir, Van Gogh, Picasso, and many others. Their art was despised by much of the public in their day. Today their art is considered priceless.

    BTW, when I was in college (30+ years ago), I had a teaching assistantship teaching several classes in art history, one being modern art history. Art history I found to be a fascinating way to study (regular) history, because you really have to understand the customs, political climate, and social standards of any given time period to understand the art of that time and its relevance. So, in many ways, I see this criticism of Bangle and other provocative car designers as being nothing more than history repeating itself.

    Bob
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    B-i-i-i-i-i-g difference between fine art and industrial art.
  • ballisticballistic Member Posts: 1,687
    Bangle's notoriety will never compare to the stunners penned by automotive design masters, such as Raymond Loewy ('53 Studebaker Starlight coupe, Avanti), Bill Mitchell (1st Buick Riviera, Sting Ray, 2nd-gen Corvair), or Virgil Exner (a decade of influential Chrysler designs), or dozens of Italians such as Bertone and Guigiaro.

    Bangle's work is utterly pedestrian by comparison.
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