Hybrid Honda Accord

azhah

This is certainly not the case in AZ. Two dealers in my area have actually raised the price since I bought mine. They are still pretty much only taking pre-orders but now are asking 2K over for non-nav and 4K over for nav version. I think the other posters are correct in that where there is demand it is high. In texas they seem to have oil in their veins and care little about fuel efficiency. If your economy is based on pertoleum products why would you want to promote less use of it? I know that's a generalization but didn't Bush make a statement about SUVs being the Texas car of choice or something along those lines?

viet

Certainly, the demand on HAH in Texas is much less than that in CA, AZ, NY and other big industrial cities. Ilene bought her HAH in Plano, TX at MSRP with lot of free accessories installed on her car while I had to pay for those accessories.

dewey

"Those kinds of tone may have worked in old-time Japan or China"

 

These ads are created in America by Americans for Americans. These ads have as much in common to old-time Japan/China as Budweiser ads.

 

viet

Yes, that kind of tone has been around for centuries which has meant to show off the superior and also inferior egoism in a mix of highly mental complexities.

1winglow

Perhaps you like to be told what to do, but Americans in general don't.

1winglow

you mean it's been around centuries ago.

 

If you like to be told what to do with your money by car manufacturers, go ahead, buy a HAH and enjoy your superior/inferior ego whatever.

backy

What's the big deal? Car manufacturers are telling us what to do with our money all the time: "Buy an Accord!", "Buy a Camry!", "Buy a Mustang!" etc. I didn't see any car ads during the Super Bowl last night that went, "We don't care how you spend your money--buy whatever car you want, even if it's not one of ours."

gagrice

I didn't see any car ads during the Super Bowl last night

 

All I saw was high speed Cadillac ads, except the lame ads for Prius & Mustang convertible. None grabbed my fancy to go test drive a new car.

falconone

Lame ads? Most car ads are lame! The Prius one and ones for the Honda hybrids have been some of the better ones. The GM ads are geared towards lower income folks.

gagrice

The GM ads are geared towards lower income folks.

 

I noticed that with all the Cadillac ads for the XLR.

lori2

I just bought an accord hybrid a month ago (and love it). I am only on my 3rd tank of gas and realize it takes awhile to break the engine in. However, I am consistently getting 22 mpg for mixed driving. That is what I got on my '98 Accord and what my friend gets on her Acura TL. I would have expected better. What are other people getting? I would also be interested in hearing what people are getting in milage for non-hybrid V6's as well as 6 cylinders.

Sylvia

Please continue the car ads discussion in Car Commercials: The good, the bad, and the annoying! in our News & Views area.

 

Thanks!

dewey

"Perhaps you like to be told what to do, but Americans in general don't"

 

  

    

Huhhh ???? The only ads that do not tell you what to do are the traditional Asian Zen-like Infiniti ads of the early 90's. These ads showed rocks and trees without a car. If you want to discuss this further why dont we go to the site referred to by Sylvia!

hondamon

Hi Lori2,

 

Did you mean to say 32mpg? 22mpg is way low as I'm getting 29 city and 35 highway and I've averaged as much 38mpg on the highway if I keep my speed @ 65. Speed and acceleration will greatly effect your MPG with this car.

 

I've got 3100 miles on mine and have noticed a steady increase in MPG as the miles mount up.

rlk

I shipped my car to California about 2 weeks ago but I had around 1800 miles and seem to avg. about 29-30 mostly city but with some highway although it is up some steep hills. 22 seems awfully low unless you drive like a racecar driver;) or the weather is very cold. previous posts have mentioned other websites where the hah mpg is compared in a nice bar graph form. right now there are 7 cars listed

viet

I got same MPG as Hondamon. I guess everyone loves to drive a car that has the power and acceleration of a Mustang or Corvette and the gas consumption of a Civic or a Corolla. Paying less for fuel is still more fun.

gagrice

22 seems awfully low unless you drive like a racecar driver;)

 

In all fairness to the drivers that are getting low 20s in the HAH, only one person has gotten close to the EPA combined 32 mpg. The 26 mpg average for the 7 drivers reporting is 20% below EPA. With two out of the 7 getting under 22 mpg. Luckily the other two Honda hybrids deliver on the advertised mileage.

viet

Lori2,

 

You better learn the "Eggs juggling philosophy" while driving your HAH to achieve the Civic and Corolla's MPG. Kidding!

azhah

I've been getting 30MPG average consistently since I first drove the car off the lot. I've had tankfull averages as low as 27.5 and as high as 34. To date I've not had a chance to test real long highway driving but did get over 40 MPG on a short trip. I'm guessing either there's something not right with your new HAH or you have some unusual situation going on.. Always driving up hill?

backy

Let's see now... so far we have data from all of 7 people. All of the data has been collected in the dead of winter, on brand-new engines, over less than a 2-month period. Under those conditions, only 20% under the EPA overall rating is pretty good I think. A better indication of the HAH's fuel economy performance will be once there is at least a full year's worth of data, across a range of temperatures, on broken-in engines, and more miles. I wonder how the Insight and HCH did after being on the market less than two months?

robertsmx

In all fairness to the drivers that are getting low 20s in the HAH, only one person has gotten close to the EPA combined 32 mpg.

 

I guess you missed all others, right here, (including rlk) who are getting mileage within range.

gagrice

I guess you missed all others, right here, (including rlk) who are getting mileage within range.

 

He has posted 28.7 mpg combined. Is that close enough to EPA for you? It is not for me. I can see someone bragging about the mileage on a car when they get better than EPA. To act like the car is a success when the averages are way below the EPA does not seem like a good advertisement for a car purported to be energy efficient. The truth is none of the hybrids except the Insight has gotten EPA estimates even after a year. The Prius is supposed to be 55 mpg combined. With 100 drivers the overall average is a mediocre 48 mpg. You can fault the EPA, and their methods. I fault the manufacturers for not setting the record straight for buyers. I think it is false advertising. I hope they win their class action lawsuits against the automakers.

robertsmx

He has posted 28.7 mpg combined. Is that close enough to EPA for you?

 

Why do you continue to insist on EPA estimate over what he actually claims to be getting? EPA estimates are obtained under standard conditions and if a person’s driving involves those standard conditions they should be getting numbers close to EPA’s. But, most people rarely do. How do you assume someone else’s driving style to fit EPA’s standards?

 

And here is what rlk claimed a post above yours:

“I shipped my car to California about 2 weeks ago but I had around 1800 miles and seem to avg. about 29-30 mostly city but with some highway although it is up some steep hills”

 

That sounds pretty good to me. Even if you continue to lug on to EPA estimate to judge hybrid technology, 28.7 mpg would be within 15% of the “combined average” if that happens to be 45% city driving, and rest on freeway. For 80% city driving, that would be within 6% of the estimate (and freeway driving in city isn’t the same as rural freeway driving).

 

To act like the car is a success when the averages are way below the EPA does not seem like a good advertisement for a car purported to be energy efficient.

 

Are you suggesting Accord V6 driven under similar conditions will yield similar mileage?

 

The Prius is supposed to be 55 mpg combined.

 

This is Accord Hybrid thread.

 

I fault the manufacturers for not setting the record straight for buyers. I think it is false advertising.

 

Make a case, not a statement. In other words, elaborate on your claim, as to how it is false advertising.

merlin180

>> I fault the manufacturers for not setting the record straight for buyers.

My understanding is the manufacturers are required by law to post the EPA figures. I don't know if they are then allowed to contradict them (though usually they would want to claim better than EPA, not as suggested in this case, less than EPA).

gagrice

Are you suggesting Accord V6 driven under similar conditions will yield similar mileage?

 

I would guess that most people with V6 Accords are getting that kind of mileage. That is the only reason I can think of to buy a small car is good mileage.

 

Make a case, not a statement. In other words, elaborate on your claim, as to how it is false advertising.

 

If I buy a home and the seller tells me the roof is good and the first rain that comes along it leaks. I am going after the seller.

If a salesman tells me a car will get 32 mpg combined for the average driver and it only gets 28 combined I will go after the car company. If I can document that I have gotten EPA or better on my previous cars with my driving style I will have a case against the manufacturer. I may not win, court is always a crap shoot. That was the one plus for the 1978 Honda Accord it got better mileage than advertised, never under 28 mpg, mostly 30 mpg.

 

I think what you are failing to look at, is this is about getting the most out of a gallon of fossil fuel. And the hybrids are not delivering as they are advertised. With the one exception, the Insight.

backy

If you go after the car company, you will lose--unless you can prove that an agent of the car company told you, "You will definitely achieve at least the EPA numbers for fuel economy, regardless of how you drive the car, its condition, driving conditions etc." Because the window sticker on the car has a disclaimer, to wit:

 

Actual Mileage will vary with options, driving conditions, driving habits and vehicle's condition. Results report [sic] to EPA indicate that the majority of these vehicles with these estimates will achieve between: xx and xx mpg in the city and between xx and xx mpg on the highway.

 

I don't have the window sticker for the HAH, but maybe an owner can post the ranges for that car. On another car I bought in '04, the numbers in the ranges are about 20% on either side of the EPA estimates. Hmmm... and the HAH owners reporting on the greenhybrid site are reporting an average of what, 20% lower than EPA averages so far?

gagrice

Because the window sticker on the car has a disclaimer, to wit:

 

Trying to win such a lawsuit would be costly & foolish. I hope that the negative press and media reports will have an enlightening affect on those that think they are buying an economical car in the HAH. If you want a fast little car that you can feel sort of "green" while driving and you have an extra $5k-$8k to throw away, I say go for it. There are cleaner more economical Accords on the Honda showroom floors.

backy

Foolish? I agree, but then you were the one who stated that is what you would do...

 

With the average price of cars today near $30k, which is the price of the HAH, looks like lots of people have that extra money to "throw away". But the HAH is the only mid-sized car available in the U.S. that offers the combination of high power and compact-car fuel economy. If you choose to "throw away" money on a car, that's not a bad choice IMO.

rlk

Once again, I am not driving in dead of winter conditions. The weather was maintaining a constant 75-85degrees and the tanks I reported were all with the a/c running constantly (except for a half a tank where I was sweating it out to see how much of a difference the a/c really made...truth be told it was about 1mpg, not a big deal)

I agree that we need to let the engines settle in before making assumptions that this car will not live up to EPA. My first tank I was disappointed too but since then it has increased and is now steady around 29-30.

 

I'll be sure to report on my first tank once I pick it up in California and try some more highway driving.

rlk

Actual Mileage ....indicate that the majority of these vehicles with these estimates will achieve between 24 and 34 mpg in the city and between 31 and 43 mpg on the highway.

 

I would say the majority are easily getting mpg within these estimates.

robertsmx

I would guess that most people with V6 Accords are getting that kind of mileage.

 

It’s a guess after all, based on assumptions.

 

If a salesman tells me a car will get 32 mpg combined for the average driver and it only gets 28 combined I will go after the car company.

 

Question: Where is the sales person quoting the numbers from?

 

If I can document that I have gotten EPA or better on my previous cars with my driving style I will have a case against the manufacturer.

 

You cannot. EPA estimating procedure has been a long time issue. Even EPA acknowledges that, and does not suggest the ratings as something you’re bound to get (hybrid or not). I’ve yet to figure out how automakers are at fault at following EPA standards?

 

I think what you are failing to look at, is this is about getting the most out of a gallon of fossil fuel.

 

How am I failing to look at this? After all, getting 29 mpg in City is getting the more out of a gallon than comparable vehicles that CANNOT!

larsb

is in the future, when the cars are broken in and the weather warms up.

 

ALL CARS will average 10%-15% lower MPG in cold temps, regardless of how much they cost.

gagrice

But the HAH is the only mid-sized car available in the U.S. that offers the combination of high power and compact-car fuel economy.

 

I think it has lived up to the high powered advertising. I feel it is trying to squeeze into the "green scene" without offering any environmental advantages. It is kind of like offering someone a piece of rich chocolate cake. Then telling them if you eat it your gonna get fat. The HAH offers that decadent speed and marginal mileage gain over the V6 Accord. It has worse pollution than several other cars in it's class.

electrictroy

"I just bought an accord hybrid a month ago (and love it). I am only on my 3rd tank of gas and realize it takes awhile to break the engine in. However, I am consistently getting 22 mpg for mixed driving."

 

.

 

22mpg is accurate is you're doing lots of stop & go driving. But I think you could improve that:

 

- find a highway for some practice

- Cruise at ~55mph and watch the instant MPG bar. Practice keeping it as high as possible w/o losing speed.

- When you stop, don't slam the brake. Very lightly press the pedal until the "chrg" bar lights up, so you can recapture energy to your battery.

 

troy

backy

The HAH emits less tailpipe pollution than the V6 Accord, does it not? It also has less emissions than most cars on the road today.

 

Faster than a V6 Accord but with lower tailpipe emissions, and better fuel economy than a 4-cylinder Accord--and that's a bad thing? I'd hate to see what kind of abuse you would throw at owners of regular V6 Accords--those terrible people who own cars capable of "decadent" speeds and pollute more and gulp more fuel than owners of any other Accord!

electrictroy

www.fueleconomy.gov doesn't have a pollution score for the Accord Hybrid.

 

How are you guys making comparisons?

 

troy

backy

EPA emissions ratings for the cars, plus the fact that the ICE on the HAH spends part of its time shut down (when the car is stopped), and the V6 Accord's ICE runs all the time.

robertsmx

Yep, that is something I questioned a long time ago. The website only states GHG emissions for Accord Hybrid which is just 6.0 tons (compared to Accord I-4 at 7.0 and Accord V6 at 7.8).

gagrice

How are you guys making comparisons?

 

Scroll down to car number 13, it has an EPA emissions rating of 7. Not particularly great. As you will see on your journey down the list the Accord's, Camry's & Altima's are much cleaner burning. Outside CA the HAH gets a 6 rating.

 

http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/midcar-05.htm

gagrice

Foolish? I agree, but then you were the one who stated that is what you would do.

 

Ok, so talk is cheap. I have been divorced 4 times and never paid a cent to an attorney. I'm 62 and don't plan to ever give an attorney any of my money. Except the thieving lawyers in Washington that squeeze us all.

backy

Looking at the list, it shows the HAH is the cleanest 6 cylinder car, period (for the CA version), and the cleanest 6 cylinder car of any that are sold in all States. In fact, the HAH tops the 4-cylinder stick shift Accord in both emissions and fuel economy, for versions that are sold outside CA and states that follow CA regs.

viet

I just filled up my third gas tank today. My HAH's current odometer reading is 1,080 miles.

 

Digital MPG on dash: 29.6 - 29.7 mixed driving, mostly in cities.

 

Manually calculated MPG: 30.07 mostly city driving.

 

It's just getting better and better with a quick and responsive acceleration of a 300HP Mustang. I still have not driven much long distances on highway.

 

Viet

MPG conscientiously,

Faithful 5 (automatically speedy) eggs juggler until they break on...mine or somebody's head.

viet

My friend can achieve 70+ MPG on his Insight as he always imagines there are a couple of eggs under his accelerator. I am serious. That's what he told me. He is an engineer. Sometimes he buys wrecked cars without engine/ chassis damage and rebuilds it to drive for saving.

viet

HAH's sticker MPG is 29 - 37. Since Xmas I constantly have got 30 MPG for cities. In a short trip on highway of 31 miles I got 36.5 MPG. Today manually calculated MPG mostly in cities is 30.07.

autoengineer

EPA spent years defining and refining their tests to be non-biased; its intended use is as a guideline and for comparison to other similar models, not as an absolute measure.

 

There are many factors that influence mileage: most are mentioned in these threads, several important ones are not: in the winter the gasoline companies mix an additive to reduce waxing (clogging) which also reduces mileage, all cold starts require an extra rich mixture (choke) until the engine warms up - can take 5-10 minutes of normal driving depending on the thermal mass of the engine, if the owner chooses to use lower octane than optimal the engine will "retard timing" to compensate - this also worsens mileage, humidity of the air increases mileage as the water expands increasing the pressure in the combustion chambers, viscosity of the engine oil as well as the differential and transmission is higher at colder temperatures. Someone mentioned weight in the trunk... what about weight of the passengers, or how much gas was in the tank? 17 gallons of gas weighs as much as another person. You can be sure honda (and the other manufacturers do everything they can to maximize results of these tests.

 

There is no way anyone will win a suit in this case.

 

Bottom line is enjoy your high tech cars... it is great to see a company come out with high mileage and high performance in such a decent package.

 

I am considering purchase of an HAH. My real question is one of reliability... who purchased the extended warranty and what is your expectation of hybrid component maintenance costs over ten years?

rlk

I purchased the extended warranty simply for piece of mind. Being that I will soon be driving this car 25 miles to and from work daily in the bay area, I thought it would be wise to shell out the $ for the warranty up front.

As far as maintenance costs for 10 years, I honestly don't plan on keeping this car for more than 6 years so I am just hoping that everything goes good until it is time to upgrade again. If the accord holds true to it's predecessors I may consider keeping the car longer although I'm sure there will be more advanced hybrids on the road by that time.

electrictroy

http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/midcar-05.htm

 

Okay, the scores for smog-emissions aka "dirt":

 

CALIFORNIA

V6 Accord = 7

Accord Hybrid=7

 

45-STATE SCORE

V6 Accord = 6

Accord Hybrid=6

 

They ARE indeed equal in cleanliness. That's a useful guide. Thanks Gagrice!

larsb

quote E-Troy:"They ARE indeed equal in cleanliness.-"end quote

 

That depends (again for the stubborn readers) on the total GHG emissions....

 

A car which "scores" a certain EPA number but produces MORE Greenhouse Gasses is NOT (did I say NOT?) as clean as a car which scores the same and emits FEWER Greenhouse Gasses.

falconone

Divorced 4 times? Hmmm wonder why.

electrictroy

Only PM, NOx, CO, HC are considered "dirty" because they are poisonous even in small quantities, to humans and animals.

 

CO2 IS NOT DIRTY. That's a factually inaccurate statement. CO2 is not poisonous in small amounts. Dinosaurs lived for 75 million years with *three times* the current CO2 levels, and they were not harmed.

 

CO2 is a greenhouse gas not dirt.

 

.

 

Now please note, I'm not saying we should not be concerned about CO2/greenhouse gas. But to say "Car A emits more CO2 and therefore A is dirtier" is not an accurate statement.

 

It's more accurate to say "Car A & B are equally clean, but Car A contributes more to the greenhouse effect".

 

troy