Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Most popular vehicles
Popular New Cars
- New Acura MDX
- New Acura RDX
- New Audi Q5
- New BMW 3 Series
- New BMW X3
- New Buick Enclave
- New Cadillac Escalade
- New Chevrolet Equinox
- New Chrysler 300
- New Dodge Challenger
- New Ford Edge
- New Ford Escape
- New Ford Expedition
- New Ford Explorer
- New Ford F-150
- New Ford Focus
- New Ford Mustang
- New Honda Accord
- New Honda Civic
- New Honda CR-V
- New Honda Fit
- New Honda Odyssey
- New Honda Pilot
- New Hyundai Elantra
- New Hyundai Santa Fe
- New Hyundai Sonata
- New Hyundai Tucson
- New Jeep Compass
- New Jeep Grand Cherokee
- New Jeep Wrangler
- New Mazda 3
- New Mazda 6
- New Mazda CX-5
- New Nissan Altima
- New Nissan Maxima
- New Nissan Rogue
- New Porsche Cayenne
- New Ram 1500
- New Subaru Crosstrek
- New Subaru Forester
- New Subaru Impreza
- New Subaru Outback
- New Tesla Model S
- New Tesla Model X
- New Toyota 4Runner
- New Toyota Camry
- New Toyota Corolla
- New Toyota Highlander
- New Toyota Prius
- New Toyota RAV4
- New Toyota Sienna
- New Toyota Tacoma
- New Volkswagen Jetta
- New Volvo XC60
- New Volvo XC90
Popular Used Sedans
- Used BMW 5 Series
- Used Chevrolet Impala
- Used Chevrolet Malibu
- Used Chrysler 200
- Used Dodge Charger
- Used Ford Fusion
- Used Ford Taurus
- Used Honda Accord
- Used Honda Civic
- Used Hyundai Elantra
- Used Hyundai Sonata
- Used Tesla Model S
- Used Toyota Camry
- Used Toyota Corolla
- Used Volkswagen Jetta
Popular Used SUVs
- Used Acura MDX
- Used Acura RDX
- Used Ford Edge
- Used Ford Explorer
- Used Honda CR-V
- Used Honda Pilot
- Used Hyundai Santa Fe
- Used Jeep Compass
- Used Lincoln Navigator
- Used Mazda CX-5
- Used Nissan Rogue
- Used Subaru Crosstrek
- Used Subaru Forester
- Used Tesla Model X
- Used Volvo XC90
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Infact improvized CVT should get same / better mileage than Manual. That is why Prius & Escape comes only in CVT. Otherwise, Toyota must have offered Manual-Prius atleast for Japan / EU.
Ford-Freestyle is offered only in CVT version.
Currently CVT is superior to Manual.
I see the article mentions says 5 gear transmission? I'm kinda surprised. I thought they'd at least use 6 gears (like my friend's Honda Acura TL) to provide more options for optimum engine speed.
troy
quote azhah-"generally CVT is required for hybrids that are able to run on electric only. Without the variability the motor could not efficiently drive the car."-end quote
So, as an attempt to interpret that statement, does that mean that WITHOUT a CVT, the Accord Hybrid has no chance to "efficiently" drive the car?
Here's the part Gary will appreciate:
Maybe that is one of the reasons why most drivers are reporting lower than expected miles per gallon results from the HAH?
No. Since the HAH cannot run on the IMA alone.
Sorry let me clarify.
In a system where an electric motor and a gas engine share the same driveline and are capable of operating independantly (the HAH cannot run the IMA without the ICE) a CVT is required (prefered). This is due to the BIG difference in the HP/Torque curves of ICE vs electric motor.
Does that help?
While a CVT tranny specifically designed for the HAH would likely provide even more mileage and efficiency, the HAH is, by design, a hybrid that is (almost) indistinguishable from its counterpart in both looks and driveability
I tend to think it was marketing; the clutch issues are probably already worked out with the HCH, which is offered with a manual transmission.
Hmmm, I believe the Honda Civic Hybrid with manual transmission gets better MPG than their CVT...
The manual tranny HCH is rated at 1 MPG better than the CVT in combined MPG, so having a CVT that is THAT CLOSE to the manual tranny is definitely an engineering accomplishment.
The ECO (3 cylinder operation) along with the IMA might not work as well with the manual also.
YES.
The debate as it was going NO.
You're confused too! ;-)
That being said, discussions are bound to cross specifics and as long as they are tied to the chore subject in any way, I don't see that as an issue.
Why are you here? To find out more about the HAH or debate global warming and whether CO2 has anything to do with it etc etc.
To participate in discussions, constructively. This may be one of the few times I'm actually talking at a personal level.
Next time you want to be extremely specific on the topic, just make sure you're not spending a post or two simply rebuttling someone else's.
Moving on (and I hope you read this in, in case the moderator chooses to delete it).
BTW, CVT discussion is almost as closely tied to HAH as GHG discussion is. Correct?
The ECO (3 cylinder operation) along with the IMA might not work as well with the manual also
No. VCM activation/deactivation is all about load conditions/throttle opening. It doesn't matter whether you have manual or CVT or automatic transmission.
Civic Hybrid has its own variation of VCM, but it activates only during deceleration to improve regenerative braking efficiency.
...Yes I do...No I don't
hehe.
Sorry couldn't resist.
I know I've been far too critical. Please forgive me and carry on!
Why? How many cars costing $30,000 have 6 or more speeds in their automatic trannies?
I'm awake.. It would seem if the mileage results posted for the CVT HCH are accurate that Honda may have been wrong using a conventional automatic over the proven CVT. Whether the CVT is worthy of the V6 in the Accord is an unknown. Honda is not at the leading edge of automatic transmission design anyway. The 6-7 speed DSG transmissions that are on the market in several brands is far superior. I'm sure Honda will get a DSG transmission in the next 5-6 years.
I'm sure they believe they had good reasons to leave the HAH non-CVT.
They are achieving an engineering first this fall - FOUR new engines for the Civic line, all introduced at the same time - something NEVER DONE by any car company ever before.
I've never heard anything but good about their manual Transmissions. It is the current 5 speed automatic that has given them so much grief. They don't seem to fail until more than 60k miles so it will be a while before we know how they hold up in the HAH.
* Money: the HAH is a relatively low-volume car. Honda would need to design a new CVT for the HAH, as I think it's unlikely the one from the HCH and Insight would be able to handle the power, or fit on the V6 for that matter. Instead, why not just tweak and existing transmission--which is what they did. Also, Honda would need to add the cost of the CVT to the HAH--and people on this discussion have already complained about the price premium for the HAH vs. conventional Accords.
* Time: developing a new CVT would take resources and time. Honda is a relatively small car company. If they devote resources to a new CVT that can be used on relatively few cars, they might delay other projects like the all-new Civic powerplants.
How about the V6s high performance rating? Could it be that current CVTs aren't quite ready for the close to 300HP(raw)that the 7th generation Accord V6 puts out? Or, along the same lines, might it be that the target buyers (performance minded ones that is)would prefer not too much "change" all at once? CVT do provide quite a different driving experience. Not that it's bad but it may take some getting used to for a certain group of auto enthusiasts, much like the rear vs front wheel drive thing.
Another Accord Hybrid (non-NAVI) going for just $28,900 from the same dealership I purchased the Insight from Vern Eide - Honda/Mercedes in Sioux Fall’s SD.
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
It's arguably the most annoying thing about the car, at least to me. I'm trying to learn to glide to where I want to be without removing my foot from the brake enough to have the engine restart itself, but I seem not to be that skilled. And, in any case, I need to whip through the putting-the-car-into PARK at the speed of light, but no matter how fast I am, I sense the engine clicks in briefly anyway.
Does any of this make sense?
As complex as it sounds, and as annoying as it is, it isn't annoying in the grand scheme of things.
I find the bobbly-bobbly ride of my wife's 2004 Camry SE (without any real handling gains and with mucho numb steering) much more annoying...........
.
A belt-driven CVT can not handle Horsepower > 150. If they installed that into an Accord Hybrid, it would stretch the belt & cause slippage.
troy
.
Which car? Is it a belt-driven CVT?
troy
http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/030402.htm
or
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/suv/112_0305_3way/index6.html
Also this one:
www.nissan-global.com/EN/TECHNOLOGY/INTRODUCTION/XTRONIC_CVT/
I suppose Honda could have leased this CVT from Nissan, but they probably prefer not to.
troy
The original price of $ 32K is far too expensive for a brand like Honda and that too with a mid-size car like Accord.
I also read adds of Civic-Hybrid-Manual costing $ 18.2 K instead of 20 K. As more Prius is available for sale, both HAH & HCH may feel the pinch. In Cargo capacity both Prius & HAH are nearly the same.
At $27 K, Escape-Hybrid offers lot more space.
Honda got to take notice.
That is why Honda should launch a Hybrid-CUV. Are they missing the boat.
BACKY: "Why? How many cars costing $30,000 have 6 or more speeds in their automatic trannies?"
.
Mercury Montego does.
Also BMW's 7-Series and the Jaguar.
Even cheaper ~$20,000 cars like the Beetle or Cooper have them.
I was expecting Honda to do the same, for increased fuel economy in the Accord Hybrid.
troy
The Montego, New Beetle, and Mini Cooper are under $30k and do have 6-speed automatic available. I don't think you can get a 7 Series for $30k (if you know where I can do that, let me know) and I don't think there are any Jags with 6-speed auto trannies that are under $30k.
Expecting Honda to put technology into the HAH that they don't even offer in the more expensive Acura TL isn't reasonable, IMO.
Except that's not what they actually cost.
I went to the local Ford dealer last weekend to try the Hybrid Escape - driving it was OK (nice to see it could actually move on the electric motor only) but IMHO it suffers from having the "ford" interior and feel. I also found the tranny *very* high revving during acceleration from a stop light - OK I was flooring it, but eased off as I thought it was about the explode.
However the thing that rally annoyed me was the sticker. Sure it had the usual sticker (with all the features/ EPA numbers etc) but then right next to it was an extra sticker that said:
Base Price: 28K (or whatever)
ADP: 3K
Total: 31K
The salesman told me ADP = "Additional Dealer Profit,..... because we can" i.e. blatant profiteering... and they wonder why they have a bad reputation.
The Ford ADP means the Hybrid Escape is about the same price as the HAH at my local Honda dealer. Although I'm tempted by the space/utility/high driving position of the Escape, the interior and driving experience of the HAH is far more to my liking.
I know the IMA battery-pack will disconnect itself "in the event of a collision".
Any idea how bad does the impact has to be for that to happen?
Assuming the car is not written off, can the IMA battery-pack be re-enabled or does it have to be replaced?.
My concern is that even after a moderate impact, the cost of repair might be greatly increased by having to replace the IMA battery-pack.
I don't like the Ivory Leather Interior, so the exterior can be "Silver Frost Metallic" or "Graphite Pearl".
I prefer the Graphite, but have safety concerns that in low/overcast light, the car would become pretty invisible to other drivers on the very similar colored roads.
Anyone with a Graphite colored car, HAH or not, care to comment?
The Honda dealer near me in El Cajon CA was even more blatant. They added "Dealer Markup" $3,000 on both the HAH I sat in and was not allowed to test drive and the Odyssey EX-L that was not available for test drive.
Dodge even topped that. They had 3 Vipers sitting in the showroom with $9,995 added to the MSRP.
If you pay much over Invoice your going to lose that money unless you keep your vehicle till it rusts out from under you. Used Blue Book Prices are based on Invoice.
Please let me post something, perhaps unusual, for this long President weekend.
- Nissan: The guy who wears flashy three-piece suit but wears nothing underneath except a cheap underwear.
- Ford Escape: Tempting to follow suit with Nissan on the "Cheap underwear strategy" (ref. with Merlin180's quote).
- HAH: Shy, low profile and may be a "boring" hybrid Accord but trying so diligently and intelligently for years to win customers. It is a true street racer, an environmental friendly and also a nicely fuel conservative sport car. What can one ask for more with accurate 255 responsive HP plus and its MPG of 30 - 38+ ? A highly sophisticated engineering combination right?
Nissan? Who cares
FEH is a PZEV so it is far cleaner emissions wise, can carry a far larger range of stuff, can actually go places you would not take a sedan of any type, and can drive out on the streets when you do have 5” + of snow on them. The AH lacks most if not all of this capability. If you wanted to show how Green you are, you would have purchased an Accord PZEV instead. If you want to show how fast you can go, well then you have your car. Doing so however negates all of the advantages of what the AH offers to those that purchase them for FE or for being environmentally conscious CO2 alone, not SMOG related emissions.
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
hah max torque 232 @ 5000 rpm
murano max torque 246 @ 5800 rpm
i'm sure honda can and will do better in the future.
American Honda Motor Co customer relations continues to insist that this is "a characteristic of the car," which I interpret to mean that they don't have a plan to fix it. They say they observed the problem in all the other HAHs they tested ... and yet, nobody on this board (except me!) seems to have the problem.
I am not happy at the prospect of having a car for the next 8 years or so with a lousy FM radio.
I took delivery on DEC 26 and admittedly used the XM for the first 2 weeks. Now I float around on NPR on FM on my hour long commute, and have not noticed the problem you experience. Sorry this doesn't help. I think Honda's excuse sucks. Let us know what happens!
I've noticed that after pulling out from a parking space and putting my HAH in D, when I hit about 3 mph I hear and feel a loud click in the front end of the car. Anyone else feel this?
Also, my city mileage (stop and go) is hovering around 25mpg with 1386 miles on the car. I'm jekyl and hyde, coasting one minute, flooring it the next. But I'm working on it!
I would suggest you take your HAH to other Honda dealerships for other diagnoses. I have never got any problems with my radio channels and have enjoyed it very much. The FM, AM, XM and CD have extremely soothed off my long tired days at work. Honestly, when I took delivery of my HAH not many Honda salesmen/women knew much about the HAH as I did. It's all about my researches and keen interest in a new Honda's hot product that made me conducted extensive researches on it. Good luck.
I do not know how bad is the "plastic bag noise" when you turn on the FM channel. The HAH is a new product and Honda dealers' service guys still have been trained on it. So, please do not trust anybody. Seek a second opinion on your FM issue. You may even consider writing to Honda headquarter to address that issue and file your legitimate complaints. The HAH is an expensive "electronic toy" so you have every right to file complaints. I have followed up with the "Honda Accord's issues/ solutions" in other Edmunds's room and have watched out closely for any possible noises on my HAH. So far, I have been happy with my HAH. My sisters bought some lemons of Mazda Miata, Toyota Previa. They made wrong decisions to buy those and finally advised me with negative feedbacks on those inferior cars. My sister-in-law bought a Honda Civic EX only after a quick test drive and felt like it. They are not engineers (or logical people) so their decisions are not comprehensively and technically oriented. Good luck "my friend". May God bless you with your "HAH lemon". Just kidding.
The "plastic bag noise" is quite annoying. I have indeed already written 3 letters to American Honda Motor Company customer service. The Honda dealer service department had my car for weeks and was in daily contact with Honda's national technical support people, and those national tech support people are the ones who concluded "it is a characteristic of the car." And the national customer service person continues to say that "it is a characteristic of the car." I am getting nowhere with Honda on getting a resolution to this problem. And I do NOT understand why Honda says it is a characteristic of the car when nobody else has this problem.