Hybrid Honda Accord

azhah

I know! I see this argument over and over again. I certainly didn't buy the car thinking I would save money. I would've saved a lot more money buying a used Yugo! Well, maybe not in the long run

The same thing goes for performance mods. Does a turbo save you money over a non turbo? Of course not. Is it worth it to many to get the extra power? Obviously it is. If one thinks of the HAH as a performance option with the added benefit of fuel economy the extra cost seems about right especially given that this is the HAH's first year.

Though it is not always the case, I think many people who make this arguement do so to make themselves feel better about the vehicle they have. IMO

viet

Can somebody please show me how to replace Accord 95's windshield wiper blades? Do I pull our worn rubber and insert new rubber or replace the whole set that I bought at Kragen?Thanks.

electrictroy

"I know! I see this argument over and over again. I certainly didn't buy the car thinking I would save money."

.

Yes YOU don't care about money, but *some people DO* buy a hybrid, because they want to save money w/ less gas burned. When they ask, "Will I save money?" we need to be honest with them, and tell them "no".

troy

larsb

quote E-Troy:" "Will I save money?" we need to be honest with them, and tell them "no"."-end quote

Some people DO save money.......trade an Avalanche for an HCH like I did and see if you do not save money....fuel savings alone in Year One are $1,600.

Another Example: If you buy a car every 3-4 years and never pay off a car, you ALWAYS have a car payment. The last time I did not have a monthly car payment was 1991.

So anything I can do to reduce my costliest ongoing vehicle expense (refueling) "can" be money in my pocket.

dwynne

Well, I just posted the numbers - the Accord hybrid does not pay for the extra cost of a cash purchase for a long, long time - far more than most folks will drive the car.

Even in your "always has a car note world" (and that is a LARGE and FULL world since most folks are like this ) the extra price and lack of incentives on the hybrid means you will be paying more each month to drive it. Of course, not as much as the cash price will need to be recovered in gas savings each month - but as I pointed out real-world differences are not that great - to even get the cash difference to 200k miles took the bloated EPA numbers. Of course, the hybrid COULD pay you back at trade in time with a return of more of your investment. Too early to tell, but as long as the IMA stuff is "Honda reliable" then you will get some of your money back when you are done with the car.

If you have traded your Avalanche for an I4 Accord you would have save almost as much on fuel and be paying a low lower car note each month.

As was posted, the question is can someone save enough money in fuel to justify the price of the hybrid VS the other Accord sedan models. The answer for most folks, is no.

If someone wants the quickest Accord sedan or the Accord sedan that returns the best fuel mileage, then the hybrid is the answer to both questions - money no object. And that is a pretty good answer

Dennis

larsb

quote Dennis-"If you have traded your Avalanche for an I4 Accord you would have save almost as much on fuel and be paying a low lower car note each month."-end quote

The problem with that comparison is that the I4 Accord is not even REMOTELY COMPARABLE to the Hybrid Accord - they are $10K part because the Hybrid is a $10K superior car in comfort level and accoutrements....

I just wanted to pipe in an point out that not everyone will lose money with a Hybrid purchase.....it just depends on the scenario....

Me being an avid Hybrid advocate and an optimist can see the Black easier than the Red, so I want to put that information out there to counter all the pessimists...

azhah

OMG!

Where did I say I don't care about money?!? Why would you make such a blatant statement? I think I have made the case very clearly that the HAH is not a money saver. To date I've not talked to one person who bought the HAH thinking they would recover the extra cost. I have talked to many of them on many sites and in person. I don't understand why so many here want to twist people's words around. Why do some posters have to be so personal and hostile!?!

We're just talking about a car here not politics or religion!

I'm through here. If this was your goal Troy you have succeeded. There are other places far less hostile and more constructive. Enjoy your endless punitive debates, I'll be out enjoying my Hybrid.

To those of you who've been kind and constructive...Thanks! It's been a pleasure! There is nothing more to contribute here other than raising my blood preasure.

larsb

Don't leave on account of any particular poster - there is a level of irritation you need to steel yourself at when dealing with these boards.

Thin skin is not the way to go - we want you to stay !!!

dwynne

I am not a pessimist, just a realist

One thing to note, being an early adopter helps everyone else out. If the idea adopted is flawed, it will be modified or tossed before the rest of the general public gets its hands on it. If the idea has merit, the early adopters pave the way for the better versions and cheaper prices to come.

I just gave away my first DVD player to a co-worker. It is a first generation Sony and I probably paid a ton of money for it (selective memory recall) but thanks to folks that did pay the high price you can get a good player now for cheap.

Same with the new generation of "performance" hybrids - the Accord being the first. I am all about performance, and I don't want to have to sacrifice performance to cut down on gas use. The new breed of hybrids will hopefully allow this are of the market to expand with lots more choice. So even if the Accord hybrid is not your cup of tea, the concept is very exciting and bodes well for cars down the road that ARE ones you would like to own and drive.

Dennis

dewey

" would've saved a lot more money buying a used Yugo!"

Fuel economy of a Yugo is better than the HAH.
A used Yugo is slightly cheaper than an HAH
A used Yugo will get much more head turning attention than most exotic cars.

What more do you want in life? :P

dwynne

Or conversely, I get 14-15mph on premium around town in my M5 - but I do have 394hp under my right foot. OK, that is too much, but it can be fun. :shades:

I think the pay-back question is a natural since you have 3 choices - I4, v-6, and hybrid of the same (more of less) car. With other cars you have to balance the "Every once in a while I need to carry 7 people" against "the Pilot only gets 17mpg city" type thing. So while any of the Accords get better mileage than the Pilot, none can be comfortable carrying more than 5 adults.

Dennis

dewey

Payback may not have relevence to a few, but it has relevence for the many.

It is inevatable that most people will do a break even analysis before buying a car which is marketed as a gas saver. Is that not obvious? Most people do not buy a HAH merely for the performance How can you consider an HAH just based on performance when there are so mant rear wheel drive performance cars that can make mince-meat out of this Honda gas saver?

dewey

Perfomance hybrids will play a bigger role in the future!

There is no doubt about the above statement. The only problem is that a performance vehicle is not only defined by its performance(performance vehicle is a misnomer). Performance is only half the story the other half is the agility/handling of the vehicle.

Unfortunately hybrid technology is heavy and heaviness hinders the agility/handling of any vehicle. That is the Achille's Heel for Hybrid Performance vehicles.

Fortunately that is not a problem with diesels. A BMW 330d has a combined mpg in the mid 40s(significantly better than the HAH) and can go 0-100 in 7.4 seconds(slightly slower than the HAH) The adavantage of the 330d is its relative lightness in weight. That is why it handles like a dream!

rocketman51

BMW 330d? Is that available in USA. For sure not in the peoples republic of California. A diesel performance car would be nice, if it could be had for $35,000 or so. Maybe some day. Here in CA we are paying $2.69 a gal for Diesel. Some places more than Unleaded Regular, some places much more. I saw Diesel for $2.98 a Gal at a Shell on I-5 this morning as I rode my 275 miles to work. Glad my BMW RT bike gets in the high 30's at 80 MPH. Lovely spring day today. Just look at the bugs on my faring and helmet. LOL

dewey

$2.98/gallon OUCH!!!

Sounds like a Oil Company Conspiracy to gouge as much as they can!

In Ontario Canada diesel is almost equal to the cost of regualar gas. And I think that in itself is outrageous. In Europe diesel sells for about 20% less than regular gas.

Based on $2.65 -2.98,n o wonder Americans are far more eager to buy hybrids than diesels.

Sylvia

Thanks!

PF_Flyer

What If - Gasoline is $5 a gallon in 2010?
Report Your Local Gas Prices Here

electrictroy

"Some people DO save money.......trade an Avalanche for an HCH like I did and see if you do not save money....fuel savings alone in Year One are $1,600."

.

$1600 fuel savings??? Wow, that's a big chunk of change. But still, did you *really* save money?

- NEW avalanche + used train-in value - New Hybrid Civic + $1600/year savings
= - $35,000 + $27,000 - $20,000 + $1600/year
= - $28,000 + $1600/year
YEARS TO BREAK-EVEN (via fuel savings) = 17 years

Sorry, but I don't see the supposed savings you claim you are getting??? I see that you are several thousand dollars *in the hole*. I'm sorry.

troy

(note: all the values are estimates, unless the original poster wants to give me the actual dollars he paid)

larsb

Sorry to only give part of the story.....:)

My old Avalanche payment: $880 per month until March 2008
880 x 35 = $30,800
My current HCH payment: $429 per month until June 2010
429 x 62 = $26,598

Insurance = $18 cheaper per month
35 x $18 = $630

Fuel: I spent $2200 between July 2003 and July 2004 on the Avalanche. The Civic will cost me about $600-$700 a year, so worst case is $58 per month for the HCH versus $183 per month for the Avalanche:
35 months x $125 = $4375

So in the next 35 months, I'm saving:

$15,785 in car payments
$630 in insurance
$4375 in fuel

Total 35 month savings:

$20,790

or, an average of

$594 per month or about $6900 per year.....

I think the "hybrid premium" is paying off for me.....

Kirstie_H

Honda Accord Hybrid - worth the extra $$$?

kirstie_h
Roving Host
Host, Future Vehicles & Smart Shopper discussions

Sylvia

have been given - this discussion is about the Honda Hybrid Accord - not the Civic, not about how much $ you might save if you buy a hybrid, etc.

Postings will be removed that are off-topic and you will not get the deleted post in email as a courtesy.

rocketman51

OK, Back to subject. I would like to make HAH handle better when I get it. So I would like to lower it 1" or so. Step up to +1 rims. 17" x 7" rims with 215-50-17 tires. Anybody have any experience with lowering there HAH, if so what kind of springs or shocks. Also what kind of offset on the rims. I see that Koni lists sport shocks for 2005 accord. Anybody know how stiff they are? I do not want to make it ride like my Dodge PU. LOL

viet

Hi Rocketman51,

It's a lot of money to modify your HAH that way. The HAH is solid like a rock, yet it accelerates and runs quietly and fast like a feather. The ride is firm. It is really a sport car. I enjoy it very much. No need to modify anything. The torque is real nice and the MPG is great.

avenger1

In message #2805, I posted the above headline and asked if Honda shot themselves in the foot by putting all of their eggs in one basket (hybrid) when diesel will be hitting the shores in 2006.

I thought they (honda) would be stuck admitting the HAH was just a stop-gap measure until Diesel took a hold. I also stated that Hybrids would look like a bad alternative compared to Diesels (cost and mileage). Perhaps they can present Hybrids as the PERFORMANCE side of efficiency, and Diesels as more FRUGAL in terms of mileage.

Well, it looks like Honda WILL be faced with the above situation....

In a recent Automotive News report, Honda senior managing director Michiyoshi Hagino was quoted as saying:

"We are working to meet the regulations, and we are going to offer diesel cars in the United States in the very near future,"

Hagino's statement was made on Tuesday at the 2005 SAE World Congress, which is being held this week in Detroit.

Hagino is further quoted as saying that the company is "very much aware" that there is a large number of customers in the U.S. who would like to buy a Honda diesel, but Honda has not yet been able to meet the regulations for diesel engine emissions in the US, and their current technology doesn't allow them to meet those regulations.

The full article is available to Automotive News subscribers here:
http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=12068

Kirstie_H

A reporter with a national magazine is on a series of articles with real people and their car buying experiences. The reporter is looking for people who have recently purchased a car and had an interesting car buying experience using non-traditional methods. Specfically, the reporter would like to speak with people who have purchased a Mustang, Chrysler 300, Dodge Magnum, a Mini Cooper hardtop or convertible or a hybrid vehicle of any make. If you fit what the reporter is looking for, please email the details of your car buying experience with your contact information to kholguin@edmunds.com by Friday, April 22, 2005.

jrct9454

I read the article in question, and it is FAR from a commitment by Honda to supply diesel cars in the North American market.

Look, I'm a big fan of diesels, and would love to see Honda solve the emissions problems for the US market, AND am pretty confident that between BMW, VW, Mercedes, and Honda, along with the nationwide switch to low-sulfur fuel, there is hope....but if I had to bet on it, I would wager that we will never see a diesel-engined Honda in the US market.

Telling us that they are working on it is not the same thing as a commitment to doing it.

electrictroy

That's okay.

We can still buy Ford, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and Volkswagen diesels.

Honda will just lose out.

troy

Kirstie_H

Let's try to stick to conversation about the hybrid version. There are plenty of other discussions in which you can speculate about the future directions of Honda (and diesels).

kirstie_h
Roving Host
Host, Future Vehicles & Smart Shopper discussions

PF_Flyer

We have a discussion dedicated to tires:

Tires, tires, tires

Just don't want this to spin off of the HAH

PF Flyer
Host
News & Views, Wagons, & Hybrid Vehicles

The SUbaru Crew Chat is on tonight. The chat room opens at 8:45PM ET Hope to see YOU there! Check out the schedule

dwynne

But it IS a point of concern for hybrid owners or those thinking about it - and it does come up every few weeks (it seems)

Dennis

larsb

I am virtually certain that any talk about the spare tire and acquiring a spare tire and what it might cost and where to get it is

without a doubt

suitable discussion for the Honda Accord Hybrid, which is a car which does not come standard with a spare tire.

Kirstie_H

If you own a hybrid vehicle and live in New England, a reporter would love to hear about your experience.
Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com by May 1, 2005 with your daytime contact info and any brief comments you care to share via e-mail.

solar_dad

Does the nav on the HAH support display of local freeway/highway conditions, congestion, etc.? Thanks.

Mike

bklynguy

The HAH navigation does not have the NavTraffic feature that the 05 Acura RL has. Maybe the 06 Accord/HAH nav system will have it (for sure the next-gen Accord). I wonder if the 06 TL will get it ?

solar_dad

Bklynguy, thanks for the quick reply. BTW, the auto club (AAA) has a portable traffic unit for $80 plus a $7 monthly fee.

Mike

blane

solar_dad:

To which AAA location are you referring? The one in the NY metropolitan area has not published anything in their monthly magazines.

solar_dad

I saw it in the Southern California AAA magazine - the company is at trafficgauge.com. Right now, they only serve So Cal and Seattle.

Sorry - I thought they were nationwide.

Mike

rich57

I also think that information and advice on the availability of the spare tire for the Accord Hybrid is very appropriate for this forum.

Those who are not fortunate enough to own this car in no way can recognize that many of the dealers are not even aware that the wheel kit is available! It is true my dealer (Honda Cars Of Mentor) had no clue.

Non-Hybrid owners can't imagine even why we are concerned --- they've never heard of an IMK (Instant Mobility Kit).

As a result, ONLY a forum dealing exclusively with the HAH would be helpful; far from spinning off topic. IMHO

nowakj66

I take delivery on my HAH on Friday. When I inspected my car last week prior to delivery, I noticed a scratch near where the front seat passenger's knee would be, on the gray plastic of the console.

My dealer says they have buffed out the scratch and will replace the center console if it is not to my satisfaction.

I currently have a 2003 Accord and the plastics have been scratch resistant. I assumed the HAH would be the same.

My salesman noted that the HAH uses lighter duty plastics than other Accords and that this in fact results in a 54 pound weight savings.

My questions are:

1. Is this true?

2. Have others noticed issues with durability of the interior plastics?

gagrice

in fact results in a 54 pound weight savings

That is interesting. So they saved a couple hundred pounds by eliminating the moon roof. Forty or so lbs with no spare tire. That is about 300 lbs less than the EX. Yet the HAH is about 300 lbs heavier than the V6 EX. What does that redistribution of the weight do to the handling of the HAH? How heavy are the batteries?

dwynne

I think if asked, most hybrid owners or potential owners would give up 1 or 2 MPG and a tenth or 2 in the 0-60 to have a moonroof and a spare.

Dennis

gagrice

most hybrid owners or potential owners would give up 1 or 2 MPG and a tenth or 2 in the 0-60 to have a moonroof and a spare.

I would give up a couple seconds of that worthless 0-60 statistic. The truth is the HAH could get 10 MPG better with the moonroof and spare if they had not opted to make it a street racer. With the mediocre sales maybe Honda will get the picture and dump that V6 and build a 4 cylinder hybrid that acts like a V6 and gets better mileage than a straight 4 cylinder.

backy

What does that redistribution of the weight do to the handling of the HAH? How heavy are the batteries?

Since a lot of the extra weight is in the batteries, which are in the rear of the car, that may help shift weight distribution towards the rear--which would be a good thing for overall handling since front-drive cars are typically front-end heavy. We know what 50-50 weight distribution does for handling in cars like BMWs. Anyone know the weight distribution numbers of the HAH vs. regular V6 Accords?

leinad

am I hearing/reading correctly? that there is no REAL SPARE TIRE included with the honda accord hybrid?

thanks for any info.

And for those who have bought the Accord Hybrid, how do you like them so far?

falconone

Mediocre sales for the HAH??? You can't get them here other than MSRP. Definitely not as popular as the Prius but it must have something to do with the fact that the mileage gains aren't as appealing. I agree, they should have put a 4cyl in and made it similar to their civic setup.

gagrice

Mediocre sales for the HAH???

That is based on my observation when I went and looked at the HAH. I was not given the opportunity to drive it. I did sit in it and mentioned the lack of head room. They had it on the lot for 10 days without much interest. That surprised the saleman. It was marked up $3000 over MSRP which I am sure discouraged many potential buyers. I think Honda missed the boat. An accord that got an honest 40 MPG combined would have been a winner IMO.

sinepman

I suppose that the 3k premium was the killing point. I think that dealer should rot in you know where!! Was down in FL last week and the dealers there can't keep 'em on the lot. Definitely not as successful as the Prius but still a step in the right direction. GO HYBRID!!!

backy

How long ago was it that you looked at the HAH? If it was right after introduction, market conditions have changed since then.

gagrice

I think it was January. I did not like the head room and I assume it was adjusted all the way down. I told the salesman it seemed very close where my hand was tight between my head and the roof. I did like the NAV in the Odyssey EX he had. They were also asking a $3000 premium on that vehicle.

tld

I saw my first HAH in freeway rush hour today as he was driving next to me in stop and go driving. I found it interesting that when he was dead stop and the traffic started to move he would sit there until the traffice was 20 yards ahead and start moving. Is it taking that long for the vehicle to start? What is this experience like? As soon as you take your foot off the break does it start or do you hit the gas and it starts cranking then leaps? How seamless is this?