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Comments
I will look into the "crayons." I don't know how to post a picture in my message otherwise I can show you all the damage.
Laura
Thanks for the informative thread.
I am thinking of buying an HAH. But I have heard mention of a 2006 model coming out in ~Oct 2005. Is that right? What changes might you expect? It it worth waiting for those to come out, and will a 2005 model instantly depreciate at that point? No crystal balls, I realize, but your best opinions, experience, rumours, and guesses would be great.
Thanks
R
Just took delivery of my silver HAH last night. This car is so much fun. I will post more later after I put in some real miles.
cal_cal :shades:
"the Toyota Prius, Honda Insight, Honda Civic, 2005 Ford Escape, 2006 Toyota Highlander Hybrid and the 2006 Lexus RX 400h hybrids"
I figured they just hadn't gotten around to updating the website and applied for the CSF tag for my new 2005 HAH.
Well, I figured wrong. My HAH was rejected for the CSF tag.
I would hope that Virginia would follow the lead of the IRS, which includes the HAH as one of the vehicles eligible for the federal clean fuels deduction.
Has anyone else tried to get this tag for a HAH in VA?
Thanks
My son got hit in the rear 2 days ago while he was "stealing" and driving my HAH. I had to drive it to the Insurance Inspector 80 miles away for immediate inspection. He reset my NAVI on "minimize highway" that I was not aware of. It was about 20 miles more for the trip and I was a bit upset when I found out while I was on the Friday afternoon rush to get my HAH inspected. But it happened to be a real good chance for me to fully test my HAH on winding and hilly roads handling, merging, sharp turns, cruise control on long trips, accelerating, radio, voice NAVI, small winding roads handling, etc. It means all aspects of my real long trip were tested.
Let me confirm with you folks one thing: My "butt wounded HAH" still performed so well and so impressively. It handled so well all curves and hills like a real sport car. The NAVI, cruise control were so accurate on hill and down hill roads. After I set my cruise at a certain speed it kept it at that speed very accurately. It was so great. The NAVI was the most useful tool to guide my trip. It is really worth the money I paid for. It is a MUST for long trips/ out of town drivers. I just relaxed and the NAVI guided me on the road.
I am willing to buy another HAH soon after I have to give up my current HAH to my son. He said he did 100 MPH to beat the truck guy the other day. He said the HAH was very fast. Oh my goodness. That was why my HAH's MPG is always low after he drives it. A 20-year-old male student hit him in the rear bumper when he fully stopped his HAH after another car on a traffic jam up. So it was not my son's fault. The other guy might do another high speed drive on his old 96 Corolla too. That's why old parents like us are growing more gray hairs very fast.
The HAH is a great piece of art and engineering. It is defintely not a dumb appliance. We, car enthusiasts do not like driving "appliances". I also love to keep
my car in immaculate condition inside out. I am going replace my rear bumper today. There is a big steel/ iron reninforcer underneath the HAH's rear bumper. It looks very sturdy.
My MPG yesterday was 31 after I got another tank. But it includes my traffic jammed up, town driving and my son's low MGP too.
you are a funny guy. I love your posts. Glad no one was hurt in the accident. Better let your son drive the old Accords till he gets over his desire to speed.
$26,864 for a non-NAV hybrid or $27,130.00 . There may also be a dealer fee ($100-300) on top of this price. $29,800 or less for the NAV models, but fewer of these are listed.
Car transport is cheaper than you think - I have used a transport company twice when buying a car to get a good deal and avoid having to fly and drive it back.
Don't overpay at your local dealer when other dealers are willing to save you money :-)
Dennis
That being said, I just don't understand the blind devotion of Honda owners. Maybe I will after I've owned mine a little longer.
This vehicle does NOT have great handling, it is numb and lifeless. The best compliment in that regard I can come up with is "mediocre".
Comparably-priced or cheaper Accord competitors also offer a much richer level of trim. For example, stability control, trip computers, fog lights, automatic lights (some even offer Xenon), electrochromic mirrors, trunk mechanisms that don't crush the trunk contents, soft leather, auto door locks, etc. The HAH doesn't even have a washer fluid sensor (unless you live in Canada). Many competitors also out-handle the Accord and best it on collision safety and avoidance.
But there are many things that make our Accords special, including Honda's sterling track record for reliability, and the efficiency and performance of a well designed hybrid system.
I wish you years of safe, happy driving in your HAH. I will also enjoy my other cars as well.
Joe
After 100K miles, Honda, Toyota have proven that they still perform real well. I have owned so many Honda autos and bicycles for the last 40+ years so I am convinced that my mechanic is right. My Accord EX 95 I4 had constantly offered MPG 27 / 32 until I replaced its engine/ transmission and now it continues to roar, purs and proudly accelerates again and again. No questions asked. No complaints whatsoever. It is only a smallest, oldest Accord in my fleet of all Accord V6 EX and I am still fond of it very much just like I love my brand new HAH.
I have talked to so many mechanics and auto-pros including mechanic friends of mine and many other people. They all said "Japanese are very smart and very skillful to put together pieces to build great cars".
I have posted in this forum an URL which proved that lot of car owners are so happy with their Honda cars which run for some 200K+ miles, even 300K+ miles or 600K miles on a Civic.HONDA ARE TRUELY PERFORMANCE CARS.
If one can sacrifice the "Historical Names" of BMW, Mercedes Benz, etc. to buy "cheap" (but not cheap at all), popular cars like Honda/ Acura or Toyota/ Lexus he/ she should have great, reliable, durable cars for years. In fact, good car like my HAH costs equally to a BMW 325i or a baby Mercedes. Yet my HAH offers more HP and other amenities. I love realistic and proven values, not just the names themselves while those names may be only historical pasts.
you certainly sound like a happy camper with the HAH and every single Honda you own or owned. Congratulations!
But why do you always compare your car with a MB or BMW?
There is not a single vehicle among these German marques that compares to an HAH These German RWD vehicles are not made for FWD fuel efficient consumers(at least not until they introduce more diesels in 2007) They are marketed to a different customer altogether and to say that most drivers of German marques solely seek a "Historical Name" is somewhat presumptuous.
I am so sorry for my comparisons that may make you or somebody uncomfortable. However, my friends and relatives who used to own and drive MB or BMW now already switched to Honda CRV, Pilot, Accord, etc. They did complained that their MB and BMW costed them too much on gas and maintenance. My brother-in-law's MB 2.9 liters got too many problems at 110K miles. One friend of mine who has a BMW 7## series complains about costly maintenance.
I have no discomfort whatsoever!
The only comparable German car to an HAH will be the upcoming hybrid Jetta in 2007 (Porsche will most likely share the same hybrid system).
A HAH vs. a BMW 3 series? You are kidding, right? The medicore drivetrain/chassis of a Accord cannot even compare to a BMW!
That does not mean the HAH or an accord are a bad car in any way. The Hondas are just good in things that BMW is not: Value priced(especially the 4 cyl. Accord) and fuel efficient!
Although having said that, the new BMW 330 gets a 13% boost in fuel economy and HP simulataneously at the same price as the old model---that in itself is pretty good value and engineering.
Sorry to hear about the high maintenance lifestyle of your friends/relatives. My wife and I drive MB/BMW and several relatives drive German marques with no hefty maintenance charges. High maintenance costs for our family would be unacceptable as most my relatives(including myself) are frugal accountants!
I doubt that maintenance on a German car is any more than a Lexus after the warranty is up. California Lexus dealers are extortionists in my book. Honda is no better. $7000 to repair the CVT in a Civic hybrid is pretty high maintenance on a 2 year old car.
Viet I do see your point about maintenance and repairs. Certainly the fact that my warranty was ending was part of my decision. I was afraid of having the technicians with the white coats working on my car, and what they would charge.
The HAH is new technology but I fully expect it to live up to Honda's high standards, and intend to keep mine for 7 years or more.
I wish everyone the happy state of ownership that Viet expresses, for all of their cars.
That's how I feel about my Chevy Malibu Maxx. It has surprisingly good driving dynamics and fuel economy. It is very comfortable, full of cool and useful amenities, and only cost $16,800. It's built on the Saab/Opel/Vauxhall platform, which gives a delightful ride without the quirks. It has stellar build quality and collision safety ratings. Also the best paint job I have ever seen on a car.
My GM's have always served me well. What's my point? Each morning I get to decide whether to drive the HAH or the Maxx, I can compare the cars fairly, Most Honda owners wouldn't consider a car like the Maxx, but they really should. I'll accept the poor resale factors for the car, but they are so cheap to buy and resale is not material if you hold on to your car.
Again best wishes to fellow readers of this group especially Viet.
Joe
BTW here are some of the amenities on my Maxx LS (low end) not found on the Accord. Again LS trim ($16,800) vs Hybrid trim ($28,000), Note that my Maxx is just under a year old and has only been in the shop once - for a recall adjustment to the ABS system.
Remote Start with very long range (factory equipped)
The trip computer will inform you when you need to replace the remote battery
Very useful trip computer also used to personalize the car
Dial guages in both English and Metric, you can set via trip computer when traveling between US and Canada
Seats fold flat. Rear seats recline
Power adjustable pedals
Separate audio system for rear passengers (using headphones)
Truly comfortable seats with proper support and anti-whiplash headrests
Power outlet in trunk
Music stays on until driver door is open. May not sound like much but it is something very endearing when you get used to it.
Trip computer factors in driving severity when recommending oil changes
Low washer fluid warning
CD text, Radio RDS text, another small but nice touch
Clips for parking passes and receipts (taken from Saab)
Speed sensitive radio volume
Compartments in trunk to hold items such as groceries
Programmable door locks can be set to passive security mode
Lights can be programmed to turn on (front and backup) when you use the remote to unlock the car in the dark. Another thing that you learn to love
Horn can be set to chirp when you lock and/or unlock the car using the remote
Rear passengers have their own sunroof with dual shades.
These amenities are on the Accord Hybrid but not the Maxx LS:
5 speed auto trans (only 4 on the Maxx)
Fabulous Hybrid drivetrain
6 disc CD changer with XM (optional on Malibu)
Radio controls on steering wheel (not in LS trim on Maxx)
Climate control (requires LT trim on Maxx)
Honda EPS steering is better than the Malibu's
Modern cars are much better now. A while ago, my friend's 82 Chevy was so lousy. When I turned the car to a shopping center at about 8MPH one half of the car was almost lifted up from the street. Its suspensions were not independent. It was so funny.
Let me try to understand your post #3072. You wrote "My trade-in was an '02 Audi A4 which exceeded my expectations in every way. Unfortunately I had to give up the car because the console was ruining my knee. Sure do miss it though."
Does this mean that you spent many thousands of dollars to change vehicles when a two dollar piece of foam cushioning would have resolved your "knee" problem?
Any Honda or Toyota, even a hybrid is going to be a lot better as far as that goes.
I am not sure viet has driven a BMW or Audi though, I can't imagine anyone that has spent any seat time in one being "excited" about the handling of an Accord. Accords are great cars and the Accord hybrid is really nice - but it is a FWD car and the steering, road feel, and handling just can't be compared to what the Germans offer. Of course, they offer it at a LOT more money and they break a lot more. So maybe viet should be excited :-) ?
Dennis
Likewise, I sent my current 99 BMW323i to a BMW dealership three years ago and they wanted to charge me $5800 for repairs. I was ready to sell my BMW and buy whatever was rated #1 in CR and JD Power until........
I went to an independent who charged me 650 dollars instead of 5800. The rest of the charges were bogus!
After relying on this independent mechanic for three years my car has been problem free ! I would have wasted my money if I bought an extended 3 year warranty!
The moral of my story:
It's usually not the car itself, but the honesty/competence of your mechanic that leads to car satisfaction!
CR 2005 reported that European cars' quality is slightly going down with more problems compared to Japanese cars. I do not like the idea of spending $500, $1,000 or more every time driving a (BMW, MB) car to the dealer for minor maintenance service. Also, making good friend with at least 2 mechanics (engine and auto body) to get some discounts when one needs to service his/ her cars is not a bad idea at all.
you are so right. Hondas have the prettiest glove compartments and consoles worldwide.
And yes, as a BMW/MB owner I live everyday in auto shop repair rooms!
Long Live Honda!!!
But let us compare apples with apples.
For example:
A Honda S2000 compared to BMW Z3---I pick a Honda S2000.
My HAH litterally "glued" on the roads like a toy on racing tracks. I tried it last Friday and I enjoyed the ride very much.
The other day I mentioned about a car that half of its body was litterally lifted up when I turned right to a shopping center at 8 MPH. It was a Camry 1990, not a Chevy. I felt really funny at that time. That's why we love to buy newer models every 3 or 4 years to enjoy better technology.
http://www.hondanews.com/CatID2001?mid=2005070148995&mime=asc
It's not a "Hotrod Hybrid" and is not marketed as such.
Honda has ALWAYS SAID from Day One that they can and will "hybridize" *ANY* car in their model line.
What that means is that they are saying "Hybrids are NOT just 70 MPG Insights and 50 MPG Civics."
Hybrids are ANY CAR which has a hybrid drivetrain installed.
That means from Civics to their largest van or the Ridgeline, ANY car can be hybridized to help it improve MPG "in it's own class" of vehicle.
Translated to it's most simple form, it means this:
Hybridization is NOT only for small cars with small engines.
That philosophy is not a mistake - it's a great long term vision.
Toyota has pledged to make hybridization an option on ALL of it's cars by 2010. Does that mean they are dropping all their cars and trucks and only making Priuses? No - it means that LIKE HONDA, they want to hybridize ANY CAR in their line to improve IT'S MPG in it's own class of vehicle.
The idea that "hybrids" are small, underpowered, goofy looking cars is outdated and is not reality. By saying you think the HAH was a mistake, you are denying the current reality of Hybrid Cars and Trucks and SUVs in the year 2005.....
Wrong for YOU, maybe. If someone wants the quickest Accord sedan and the one the gets the best mileages then the Accord Hybrid is both. To me that breathes some excitement into hybrids.
One problem is that SOME folks just assumed they were buying a hyper-mile car like an Insight or maybe the Civic hybrid. Not doing their homework let to some folks being disappointed.
Now if Honda made the Accord hybrid run on batteries alone (for the commuting crawl) and MAYBE made an I4 version for those that need something larger than a Civic/Prius and wanted REALLY GOOD mileage - I would have no problem with that.
But Honda pretty much hit the mark they were aiming for with the Accord hybrid. Sounds like it was the wrong target for YOU, though. I do think no spare (save weight, right?) and no moonroof (open roof adds drag, no roof saves weight) were the two big misses. If you pay $32k for a car it should have a spare (there is room) and it should have a moonroof.
Dennis
The V-6 hybrid does not interest me at all. It has speed that I don't want or need, and it does no better than a 4-cyl manual tranny at the gas pump (in real driving conditions - not EPA).
You have missed my point. IF the HAH was successful as you are saying, it would not have dropped in sales from 2000 units in April to 1000 in June, the best car sales month so far this year. The HAH is not a popular vehicle. I believe if Honda was serious they would have made it in the 4 cylinder first with much better mileage. With a price closer to the other Top of the Line Accords.
Remember: in coming years we are going to have MANY MANY Hybrids as options on *NOT ONLY* the most popular cars, but cars which only sell a couple of thousand a month.
And remember also: Hybrid acceptance is in it's INFANCY in the USA. It will grow and grow and grow as more people become educated about the benefits of the technology.
The HAH is not that popular for the same reason the HCH is not the most popular car - people see the higher price and shy away, without taking the time and effort to understand the real benefit.
That issue will change as we have MORE and MORE Hybrid models available and the price comes down accordingly for the technology.
Remember: We are on pace for about 200,000 Hybrids to be sold this year in the USA, up from only 80,000 in 2004. It's a GROWTH thing !!!