Lease Termination Fees and other costs

sanfermin

I have a Tundra 12 months into a 36 month lease. When I leased the vehicle it was with a special that Toyota was running that used a 24 month residual value for a 36 month lease. I have paid the lease off and would like to buy the vehicle and sell it. How do I/Can I negotiate a lower price than the residual in the contract since it is so early (24 months to end of lease)?

Any info/advice would be great!

kyfdx

Unless the lease is near the end of term, they won't negotiate the payoff... They have no incentive to do so.

If you've made your lease payments in advance (not sure why you did that), then you've given the bank a gift.

I'm fairly certain you are stuck with that vehicle until the lease end. You might check with the bank to see what the current payoff is.. Unfortunately, you might find that it is higher than residual, even though you've made all the payments. It is possible that they are holding your early payments in an escrow account and crediting them each month.

Good luck.. I'll be interested to see what the bank says.

regards,
kyfdx
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sanfermin

Thanks for the reply.

You were exactly right. I just got off the phone with the bank and they said exactly as you said . . . although they didn't hint at negotiating later - but that seems like an obvious no brainer.

The payoff is actually about 1000 less than the residual at this point . . . not sure why that is either.

-Dan

kyfdx

If the payoff is less than the residual (possibly from making the payments early), then that is a good thing..

The problem with flipping your leased car, is that you usually have to pay sales tax before selling it to the next guy... Of course, you can always trade it in..

Good luck...

psyten

So I seem to have run into a major problem with my leased '06 Altima SE that I am hoping to get some information on. The car was legally parked on the street where some idiot kids decided to pull out and broadside an SUV. The SUV in turn lost control and plowed into my parked vehicle (luckily I had walked out of the car 1 minute before). The insurance quoted approximately 7 grand visual damage, but it is likely to rise to about 10 grand. The entire left rear side is smashed in and the car got thrown up on the curb from the impact. The gas tank is pushed in including the rear two wheels facing in all different directions. The insurance refuses to declare a total loss despite the 10 grand and it sounds like the body shop is pushing to do the work.
Here is where my questions arise. I understand that if it was a total loss, I'd be ok and go get a new one and start all over paying all the lease fees all over out of pocket. However, I refuse to drive the car after such a major wreck since it will not have the same structural integrity anymore. Moreover, I will keep paying for a new car although it has lost significant value at this point. The payoff amount is a little over $18,000 and the dealership said if I were to trade it in for a new one after the repair, they will only give me $14,000 to $15,000 since it will have a carfax on it. Unfortunatelymy state, nor the state of the accident, nor the at-fault insured's state allows for Diminished Value claims. I am afraid I stand to lose 4-5 grand because of this kid's stupidity and am looking for any information that can help me in this case. Insurance is saying the threshold to total it is 12grand, but they seem intent on fixing it and saying I should be happy with that since I will have new parts. I honestly don't care for the new parts since I was happy with the 1yr old car as it was before the idiot caused this mess. Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance!

tidester

I think I know the answer to this question but did your contract include gap insurance?

Regarding "the kid," your insurance company (or you) should consider going after him to make you whole.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

psyten

Thank You for your response. I would love to hear your additional thoughts on this issue. My understanding is that all Nissan leases come with GAP insurance so I am not worried if they total it out. However, I do not know if GAP insurance covers the difference in devaluation of the car. I am strongly considering trading the car in once it leaves the shop, but I do not know if GAP insurance will cover that difference in the loan. As for my insurance, they seem to be dragging their feet and don't really care to make me "whole" again. That is the unnerving thing to me.
Thanks!

kyfdx

I'm very sorry to hear about your car. Here are a few things to consider.

1) If they total your car, then between the insurance and the GAP insurance, the leasing company that owns the car will be made whole. Your lease will end. This situation is a good lesson on paying as little out of pocket as possible, at the inception of a lease.

2) If they don't total the car, and you refuse to drive it, that will be a decision that will cost you money. Obviously, the leasing company and the insurance company do not share your opinion on the structural integrity of a repaired car. Your only choices at that point will be to trade the car in (and..as you surmise, take a very big hit), or to park it and continue making the lease payments (also, fairly expensive).

3) It is doubtful that you'll have a diminished value claim, as the car isn't yours.

I hope that your car is totaled. I'm sure that will be best for all involved. Most people consider this situation one of the advantages of leasing. Once your lease is up, then you walk away from the car, and have no worries about the diminished value. If you insist on not driving the repaired car, it will be that decision that triggers your financial loss.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

regards,
kyfdx
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bobst

Since you "refuse to drive the car after such a major wreck", I see only two courses of action for you.

1) Park the car, keep paying for the lease, and return the car after the lease is ended.

2)Return the car to the dealer after it has been repaired and tell them you want to end the lease. They will tell you how much you have to pay to end the lease.

I suggest option 2).

psyten

Thank You for your input on this issue. I must agree with both of you that a total loss would be best for all parties involved excluding the body shop (which will lose the hefty work price tag). I feel like the insurance and the shop are in it together and each keeps dumping the issue on the other. I am wondering if I can bring in my own appraiser who will do an honest estimate. As far as I am concerned the current shop will not get the work and I will end up bringing the car to Nissan for the body work. Any further input would be much appreciated. As for refusing to drive it, I do not trust the car which has been so mangled and rebuilt. A month down the road I don't want to be sitting in the bushes off the highway because some supsension piece gave out after being rebuilt. So much for having trust in insurance companies to make one "whole" again.

psyten

Are there any other ideas you guys could suggest? I am getting the feeling that I will be driving this car until my lease is up while at the same time praying that nothing goes wrong while I am on the highway. Thank you all for your thoughts and well-wishes.

dtownfb

If the work is done properly, the car should be fine to drive. You are smart in having the work done at a Nissan body shop. Nissan has a vested interest in this vehicle since it is still their vehicle. Who knows? They may get working on it and really drive the cost.

good luck.

kyfdx

Not sure what your car is worth.... but, if you are nearing the 70% of value level in repairs, then drop in and talk to the estimator... and let him know that you really, really don't want that car back. Tell him that you'll be eternally grateful if the car has enough damage to be totaled, and that while you don't want him to do anything unethical, could he please look really hard and find every little bit of damage?

You'd be surprised how empathetic body shop guys can be... They deal with stressed-out people every day.. And, while you would think they would be motivated to get the repair job, they are usually in tune with the customer's needs. (Unless, of course, you need the car repaired in a hurry).

I know.. all this sounds dubious, but its worked for me a couple of times.. and.. you have nothing to lose.

Of course, if you aren't even at the 50% level of damage, this won't do you much good.

regards,
kyfdx

paisan

I don't know about your specific state, however, I believe you can bring it to whatever shop you choose to have it repaired. This is where it benefits you...

Find out where the Mercedes Benz, BMW, and Ferrari Dealers in your town bring them to be repaired. This shop will likely help bump up the quote for 2 reasons...

1) They don't want to work on your Nissan, when they can get significantly higher paying jobs from the MB, BMW and Ferrari folks, so they'll price you out pretty high.

2) Even if they do accept the work, the price of their labor and parts and paint will likely be higher.

I've seen it done successfully in cases similar to yours, besides you want the BEST repair out there.

-mike

psyten

Hi Mike, thanks for the great advice. I have been very polite and patient with the body shop and the claim adjuster, but they are both dumping the issue on each other. Neither is willing to admit the real damage which is at 7k so far, although they are even refusing to ackowledge replacing the rims or tires which were both damaged. They also keep telling me the frame is bent but they'll get it fixed in a snap. I have pushed for them to tear the car down and get it appraised for internal damages, but they are admant that they will find little damage. I am considering bringing it to the local porsche/audi/bmw/benz dealership for the body work if it comes to that. Thanks for the advice. Anyone have experience in having an independent appraiser? How much are they and where is it possible to find one? While I am not pushing either party to do anything unethical, it seems they are set on fixing the car and are really low-balling the extent of the damage. I've noticed they have left out some key pieces in the initial estimate that they plan to refinish rather than replace. I think, ultimately, I would just like an honest estimate from someone that is impartial. Thanks to you all for all thoughts and comments.

paisan

Keep us posted. If you were in the NY/NJ area I could recommend a few places to go.

-mike
Motorsports and Tuning Host

dtownfb

Definitely get a second estimate for the job. i would stick with a Nissan shop to get the estimate. Again, they have a vested interest to make sure the car is repaired properly. Let them know your concerns. Also have a conversation with your agent about the process. While the estimator has the pull in this job if your second opinion is much higher then the original estimate, your agent can get involved.

Good luck

joel0622

I would also call the leasing company and ask them if you can be held liable for any faulty repairs or the use of non OEM parts at lease end. Would hate to see you get it fixed now and then get smacked with big charges at lease end. The residual on your vehichle and lease end price were based on a car that had not had major damage done to it.

psyten

So the leasing company were not very helpful since nissan's insurance department is located in India. They all gave me the standard response of its your problem and goodbye. I've finally dragged the car over to Nissan who say there is significantly more damage than insurance was quoting me, but its probably not totaled. They are handling the problem now and seemed very professional about it so far. We'll see what happens now, taking a little breather from all the drama so far. Thanks for all your input on this. I have never encountered such a situation, so I am learning.

inafix

Hi, Due to several unforseeable circumstances, my 2003 infinity M45 was repossed in Jan 2006. I was 3 months behind when repossed and the letter to redeem the car was to pay in full 30,586.31. I know I am responsible for the past due, unpaid tax, late charges and towing charges totaling $2534.54. Storage fee had not been determined. I just received a bill from Nissan totaling $10,723.46. I ran the vin through car fax and see they sold it at auction Feb 2006. I cannot find my original lease agreement so do not know what the early termination fees are. I am very close to declaring bankruptcy and I know Nissan did not take too much of a loss on this car-it was in perfect condition with under 12K per year. Any idea if Nissan negotiates? I actually didn't break the lease-they did. Any suggestions on how to proceed? Thanks very much

tidester

I'm sorry to hear about your misfortune.

Was your car new when you leased it? If so, it would seem that you only had a few more months left on the lease so I am puzzled by the $10,723 figure. Typically, you're responsible for all the payments you would have made had you gone through the entire lease.

Also, I'm sure you'll find some clause in the lease contract that specifies you will make all payments on time and you would be considered to be in default otherwise. I.e., Nissan (Infiniti?) did not break the lease.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

blane

In their efforts to protect the highly profitable big banks and other lenders, those wonderful folks in Washington have made declaring bankruptcy a virtual thing of the past. Bush signed the "Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005" in April 2005 and it took effect October 17, 2005.

Declaring bankruptcy may not be as simple an option for you as it might previously have been.

steine13

my 2003 infinity M45 was repossed in Jan 2006.

Please tell me the dates are confused and the car was repo'd in January of 2007... are you saying this thing has been dragging out for 15 months?

Any idea if Nissan negotiates?

I doubt it, but you could try... the thing is, once they picked up the car, you were out of options. $10 is a lot of money, but considering an M45 is a, what, $60k car, give or take, that sounds fairly charitable. It's almost certainly legitimate.

I actually didn't break the lease-they did.

You broke the contract when you stopped making payments. I'm thinking if you'd'a bought a Camry you'd still own it, unforeseen circumstances or no.

Any suggestions on how to proceed?

You need to sort through a lot of things. If BK is an option, you'll need a lawyer, and it's gonna be painful.... the old wipe-the-slate-clean type of BK is probably not available to you if you had the whats-it to lease a big-bucks Infiniti. You need professional advice, not from some internet message board. We could tell you what the car brought at auction, but not if it was over a year ago.

So long as BK is in the picture, I wouldn't pay anybody anything until it's clear what has to be paid and what may go away.

Good luck,
-Mathias

inafix

Hi, Lease was 39 months @504/mo and car was new. Full payments were made for 24 of the 39 months. Had possession of the car for an additional 3 months before they repossessed. According to the prepo letter dated the day after car was taken, Unpaid adj lease balance was 28051.77. Fees as described earlier 2534.54. If I wanted the car I would need to pay 30586.31 plus storage. Too high and out of the question.

So my question is, I do owe 2534.54 fees and some storage. Car was taken 1/17/06 and sold at auction on 2/15/06 (don't know if there is anyway I can find out what the selling price was)so storage fee is less than one month. Not sure about auction, but I would think that the starting price would be set to cover any additional monies due on the lease (aside from what I owe) so Nissan would not be at a loss. Difference between invoice rec and what I know I owe is 8188.92. Is there room for negotiations in that 8188.92?

Do you have any suggestions how I should handle this? The car is only one of a few bad debts (approx 50K total) we have and have had some luck negotiating with other collection agencies to accept 50% or less of the amount due. That's why I thought that if when speaking to the collections agency if I stated that we were considering declaring bankruptcy they may be more inclined to negotiate.

Thanks for any advice and suggestions you can give me. We have all learned our lesson and hopefully will never travel this embarrassing road again. :sick:

tidester

Lease was 39 months @ 504/mo and car was new. Full payments were made for 24 of the 39 months.

That means you had 15 payments remaining and, had you terminated the lease early, you would have been responsible for 15 times $504 = $7,560 plus fees. With the figures you provided, the penalty adds up to $28,501.77 - $7,560 = $20,941.77. Something's definitely wrong here!

I would contact the leasing company directly and ask them to give you a detailed explanation of how they arrived at their figures. And you really do need to find your copy of the contract!

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

qbrozen

Kinda makes sense to me. $7500 in payments plus $2500 in the aforementioned storage fees. Add an early termination fee, and probably some paperwork and I could see hitting that $10.7k number they demanded pretty easily.

joel0622

OK, I am guessing that the rules on this are pretty standard across the industry so I will tell you exactly what is in the contract on a Ford Lease in regards to the lenders rights if you don't live up to the contract you signed.

DEFAULT: If the finance company retakes the vehicle, you must repay at once (a) the difference, if any, between the Unpaid Adjusted Cap Cost and the value which could be realized by the wholesale sale of the vehicle. (b) any other amounts then due under the lease (except charges for excess wear and mileage).

The value which could be relized at the wholesale sale of the vehicle will be: (a) the net amount received by the Finance Company upon sale of the vehicle at wholesale or other commercially reasonable manner, or (b) as determined by a proffesional appraisal obtained by You at Your expense within 10 days from default, from an independent third party agreeable to the finance company. You must also pay all expenses including, reasonable attorney fees, payable by finance company to obtain, hold, and sell the vehicle, collect amounts due, and enforce holders rights under this lease.

So in a nut shell what it is saying is that you broke the lease early so if you want out you pay the difference between what the vehicle brought at auction and what is owed to clear the lease completely. The whole remaining payments thing went out the window when you defaulted on the agreement. So ya, I can see these charges being spot on.

qbrozen

somehow, i don't think that is quite the case here, though. I agree that he should pay the difference between auction and buyout. i had a friend do this very thing (a ford, no less).

however, this car's buyout was $30k. There is no way this car (M45) only fetched $20k at auction.

florisa

My friend has leased a 2006 Toyota 4-Dr SR5 4X4 4Runner The truck was leased for 5 yrs, however the buyer has realized she's way,way, way over her milage and its only been 1yr. She plans on returning the truck and would like to turn around and finance it instead? I'm not sure if that's such a great idea?? The truck was listed for 32,661.00 / her monthly pymts 424.86 for 59 months .... The residual value would be 14,083.60 (I feel she's buried). She's asking me for advice, but I just don't know what to tell her (Can you please help?)

kyfdx

Since she still has 4 years left on her lease, it might not be a bad idea to do what she has proposed.. She might not be much worse off than if she had bought it in the first place... (Unless she lives in a state where the sales tax is paid upfront on a lease).

She should call the bank, and get the payoff for the lease (be sure to ask if it includes sales tax). It is likely to still be $30k-$31K plus tax.. That will be $600-$650 per month for 5 more years, but if she is blowing out her mileage, it will be worth it.... plus, she will own the truck.

Better to do it now, than wait until she is 30K over on her mileage.. assuming she can afford the payment.

regards,
kyfdx

qbrozen

i always say never to buy a lease out early. Finance costs on a lease don't accrue over time. They are built in up front. So if you buy out a lease early and finance it, you are financing financing ... know what I mean? In other words, paying interest in the new loan on interest that was already built into the lease. So just keep driving the thing until near lease end and THEN buy it.

kyfdx

Depends on the finance company.. BMWFS splits the finance charges evenly over each payment.. The lease actually pays down faster than a comparable car loan! (well, assuming the loan was for 7 years). AHFC used to have a mechanism to recover some of the unpaid finance charges if you exited a lease early. Not sure if they still do that, though.

The reason the payoff on leases seems higher, is that you aren't paying as much each month. The goal of a lease is to not build equity, which is opposite of most car loans (60 months and below).

If this lessee is going to rack up excess mileage charges at $0.20/mile, then she needs to do something.. Buying a vehicle that she likes is a better deal than trying to dump the lease.

At least... if she makes payments on a loan, she will be right-side up at some point in the future.

regards,
kyfdx

joel0622

At least... if she makes payments on a loan, she will be right-side up at some point in the future.

Yep, right about the time she makes her last payment.

You just need to decide when it is you want to pay for your buying mistake. If it is in your budget now to take on that type of payment then go ahead and pull the trigger

kyfdx

On a 4-Runner? I think about payment #40-#45 on a 60-month loan...

joel0622

I am basing my exaggerated guess off of this. the poster said.

The truck was leased for 5 years, however the buyer has realized she's way,way, way over her mileage and its only been 1yr

Way, way, way over to me means like she has put 50K on it in a year and already exceeded her 50K allowed for the term of the lease. So if she financed today what sounds like a butt load of money on this ride she will have over 250K miles on it at the loan term. Not a large market for 250K mile vehicles.

Sounds to me like some one was shopping for a payment and nothing else.

kyfdx

Well.. someone is going to have to come back and give us all the details..

I just assumed it meant she realized she would be way over at the end of the lease.. Like, 90K instead of 50K..

joel0622

You are probably right. If my scenario is correct some one deserves to pay the stupid tax.

qbrozen

well that is some interesting info.

i guess we need to know how toyota works.

my sister certainly never got a break getting out of her honda leases early. and i know i didn't on my mazda lease.

guess i'm leasing a bimmer next time.

zoomandyzoom

My 48-month lease on my 2003 Mazda Protege is ending on 6/21/07, meaning I have only one (May's) monthly payment left. I plan on buying the car at lease end, and then selling it, since it's worth quite a bit more than the buyout amount stated in my lease contract. I was allowed 48k miles for the term of the lease, the car currently has 34k miles.

My concern is this: the Mazda dealer where I leased the car is saying that they have to charge me registration fees (expires in June), plus another doc fee, in addition to the payoff amount. Plus, they say that they will be taking an odometer reading AND checking for damage beyond normal wear and tear, just like I were turning in the car and walking away. I don't understand why they're doing this, since I'm going to be buying the car anyway. I have never leased before, so this is all new to me.

I live in California, if that matters. Has anyone who has ever leased a Mazda been through this before? Is this make-specific, or do other manufacturers and/or dealers do this, too? Please help and advise, if you can! Thanks! :confuse:

kyfdx

None of that sounds right, though I have no idea how Mazda Credit handles their leases (assuming that is who has your lease).

Have you called the bank to ask them about purchasing at lease end? I'd leave the dealer out of it, if I could.

steine13

I'm with kyfdx on this one; leave the dealer out of it as much as possible... if you had moved from LA to SF since you leased the car, you certainly wouldn't have to go back to the original dealer.

That said, I believe you will owe a number of fees, since the car is going to change ownership as you buy it out. You will have to go to the DMV to get a new title and maybe a new registration and plates. You will also owe sales tax on the buyout price.

I do not think that any Mazda dealer enters into the picture. As far as the requirement of checking the car out and reading the odometer, the person who told you this may simply be confused. Not a lot of people buy out their leases.

Your Protege is worth more than the buyout because gas has risen a lot since '03; that's why you're buying it.

Please let us know how things turn out.
-Mathias

yeltzen

I apologize if all of this is answered elsewhere, but I'm turning in a lease in a few weeks, and I have some questions:

1) Do I need to have someone come out and appraise my vehicle? Or is this done at the dealership when I turn it in?

2) Should I return the vehicle to the dealership I leased it from, or somewhere else?

3) Is there any less vague definition of "normal wear and tear"? I have a very small dent near the rear window of my Jeep that has a few small scratches near it. Some of the interior (plastic) is scratched up a bit as well from moving luggage and so on in and out. Is this considered normal? Or is this excessive? The car will have about 12,000 miles under my limit, which I know doesn't matter, but still.

4) When I replaced the tires, I opted for decent tires that didn't cost $150 apiece like the standard Wrangler tires the Liberties come with. In my agreement there is a clause about "tires of lesser quality than the original". By "lesser quality", does this mean "lesser value"?

5) I don't plan on buying another Jeep/Chrysler. How much does this screw me?

Thanks so much.

tomc1227

I will be turning my Infiniti in at the end of June, and I have a California DMV registration renewal payment due the day after I turn the car in. Do I have to pay this or can I just disregard it as I won't have the car by the due date? :confuse:

murphy4

I lease a 2006 Volvo V70 2.5t last year. It has been a great car and really want to keep it. Our issue is we now a new baby to add to the other two. The backseat is very tight for three boys in cars seats.

How painful is it to change into a bigger car at this point? We lease it for three years and are only about half way through. It is leased through Volvo, does it help if we roll into a new Volvo. Do they help out?

Help.....

qbrozen

very painful!

no, it doesn't help to roll into a new volvo.

no, they don't help out.

how old are the 2 kids? is the new baby here now or still on the way? if still on the way, when?

murphy4

the kids are five and two. the new one just arrived. so i guess we will need to make due.

fredrickk

I really won't suggest leasing through a leasing company rather than the manufacturer's financial company. I recently called up a leasing company to inquire about leasing a G35 coupe. I was told this:

$5500 down
$590 month/63 months/15k miles annually.

I did some quick math. That actually equals to FINANCING the car, NOT LEASING.

By the way, this "company" I called was "theleaseoutlet" (theleaseoutlet.com)

steine13

No no no, I don't think you understand.

You're not financing it, you're leasing it.

So after you paid for the whole thing, you give it to them!

I think it's brilliant. Wish I'd thought of it!

Thanks for the laugh,
-Mathias

qbrozen

So the 5-year-old is in a booster. I would be surprised if you couldn't fit 2 car seats and a booster in the V70. And, if it doesn't, then what you really need is a minivan, which volvo doesn't offer anyway. And, no, I don't think an XC90 would work for you. If you've got the 5-year-old in the 3rd row, you've got to climb back there to strap him in, then you've got almost no room behind the 3rd row for enough stuff (stroller, playpen, what have you) for all those kids.

Just my .02.

fredrickk

The down payment doesn't do much to the monthly payments itself. The down payment on a leased car shouldn't be more than the first month's payment, tax, registration, "doc fees" (if applicable), etc. If you want the monthly payments to be lower, go on a shorter lease. Or, sometimes, manufacturers may be "deals" on a relatively short lease. I'm about to lease my second car. The monthly payments that was offered are the same, regardless of my down payment. Good luck