Whatever you do, do not purchase from these guys. Made a deal over the internet with the internet mgr. on a 06 Murano. 39 month lease based on purchase price at invoice. Got to the dealership and they had added several markup items to the price. Theft guard, tire guages, paint protection, all to the tune of $1800. Now they won't honor the original deal. What a bunch of scam artists!
Just a final word on this episode with the dealer,,,I finally filed a complaint with the Connecticut Better Business Bureau. They contacted the appropriate person at the dealership and my deposit was promptly credited to my card account. They obviously have the ear of the dealers and I'm very pleased with their efforts. I would now recommend their assistance to anyone finding themselves in such a bind with their dealer. I believe there to be a BBB in just about every state.
Many Thanx to you folks who suggested the various avenues to take with this and especially the CT BBB for their fine efforts in bringing all this to a close.
I brought my car (2004 C230K) in to a local dealer because the SRS "system restraint service" light kept coming on. Also, I am planning a road trip so I wanted a check up on the tires and fluid levels, etc. My service advisor was extremely rude at first when I dropped my car off in the morning. In the afternoon when he called to tell me that I needed $$$ service, he sounded a bit nicer. My car is barely 2 years old w/ a 25k mileage. Early last year, I got both rear tires replaced because there were nails found in them. This time around, just 1.5 years later, I was told that all 4 tires needed to be replaced, plus the front brake pads and rotors.
So the following day, I was scheduled to pick up my car in the afternoon. At noon-ish, the service technician called to say that the camber screws also need replacing. Should camber screws ever be replaced?? I expressed my conern in having to replace all these parts so soon and he kinda quickly told me that all these wear items were worn out in a short amount of time due to the way I was driving... I'm still not sure whether I buy it, but in the end, the damage was a whopping $2,000.
Anyone share a similar bad experience? Can I get these services done outside of a MB dealer?
Shouldn't MB be covered bumper to bumper including the maintnenance items for the first 4 years or 50,000 miles? Or did they do away with that?
I've had bad experiences at both Chrysler and Nissan dealerships.
1) Had the timing belt replaced on my Plymouth with V6 motor. A few days after leaving the dealership, the radiator cracked open where the upper radiator hose connects and experienced a complete loss of coolant. Dealership said it was a "coincidence" and did nothing. I say the mechanic dropped a tool or accidently hit the top of the radiator which weakened it causing it to crack when good and hot under pressure.
2) Nissan dealership service manager said its "brake fluid flush" consists of removing some of the brake fluid from the reservoir with a "turkey baster" like tool. It takes about 15 seconds. It does NOT consist of flushing the brake fluid from the wheel cylinders or calipers.
3) Another foreign dealership said that I should check with the parts department to see if the parts are in stock before making an appointment. I'm supposed to be an expert on what parts are needed.
Hmmmm....I'm not so sure about that...if the mechanic had to remove the top radiator hose, he could have weakened an already cracked upper pipe...it's not his "fault" but he might have administered the death blow. I'm sure it would have happened eventually anyway. I don't think dropping anything on it could do this....this is a typical plastic radiator problem.
I agree, extracting brake fluid from the reservoir as a "flush" is a cmoplete waste of time and money.
in few earlier scheduled visits, i mentioned the vehicle seemed kind of loud. this was never responded to. a couple of weeks ago, i brought in in because the airbag light was flashing again. i thought about the 'loud', but decided to not mention it. just fix the airbag light. they call me after the time i asked for it to be ready and say they noticed it needs a new wheel bearing, can they keep it overnight? time to eat dinner. i'll continue a bit later, in case anyone wants to read the rest of the continuing story.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
My one day old car was stolen from the car dealer. Brought it in for something minor(daytime running lights) 12 hours after I picked it up new from another (located farther away)dealer.
I get a call in the afternoon from the service manager informing me that the car was in fact stolen from their warehouse. Apparently, the thief found the keys and drove off.
Fast forward three weeks, the car is recovered in decent shape. Now the dealer's insurance is telling me that they are going to clean up the car and give it back to me. The car was recovered with 300 miles more than I had on it.
I don't want this car back. Its not new. Its a used vehicle as far as I'm concerned. In any event, won't the resale value be permenently affected by the vehicle being a theft recovery?? I hope the dealership is willing to swap me a new car. Depressed in nyc.......
i'll try to make it over to the show tomorrow. by then all the removable parts are off the show vehicles. since i have had a loaner that had only 1400 miles on it for the last few days, i did get a dose of 'new car smell'.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Subtitle: SLOWER THAN MOLLASSES for service; 'Bait and Switch' Fanatics! Consumer BEWARE
My story: I got a nice invitation in the mail 'celebrating the relaunch' of Tom Chevrolet-Hyundai as Clay Chevrolet-Hyundai. Well all that money Clay spent on Tom Chevrolet? None of it went to service. Anyway, the invitation says "We invite you to visit us in Norwood for a FREE oil change and brake inspection (a $50 Value)." (Now I don't mind PAYING for an oil change or PAYING for a brake inspection, as long as it's done efficiently and honestly.)
I called up Clay (Tom) Chevrolet a few days ago and scheduled an appointment for the oil change and brake inspection. I got there today five minutes ahead of time and was told by the desk attendant that everything was all set, my car should go in next, and it will be an hour wait *on top of that* (an hour wait for an oil change and brake inspection? Anyway, I showed some pity (they didn't look THAT busy, however), and waited. and waited. and waited. at 12:45 (FORTY FIVE MINUTES AFTER MY SCHEDULED APPOINTMENT), my car (yes, a chevrolet) was STILL PARKED WHERE I HAD LEFT IT. So I asked for my keyes and left, and the desk attendant didn't seem the least bit apologetic (he seemed almost relieved to get rid of me).
Now this is not the first bad experience I had with them, there's another one and it was the same situation: Slower than mollasses. They had much more interest in eating their take-out lunch that arrived than servicing their customers.
How does a dealership like this survive in the wake of the Midas and Jiffy Lube franchises that do everything more quickly, cheaper, and with higher customer satisfaction rates?
Dear isellhondas - where do you suggest I go then? I guess a reliable and trustworthy chevrolet service department, but my fear is that 'reliable and trustworthy' and 'chevrolet service' don't go together very well. An independent mechanic i guess is the ideal scenario.....
If you don't like your dealer, I would ask family, friends and neighbors for a referral. A lot of very good independents out there who are honest and do good work.
Unless you live in the middle of the desert, I would assume there are probably several Chevy/GM dealers in your area. You could do like Isell recommends and ask other Chevy owners that you know where they have their cars service, and what their experiences have been.
You could also check a few of your local Chevy dealers on the Better Business Bureau's website...but keep in mind, I would bet most every service department, regardless how good they are, have had complaints filed against them with the BBB (remember, there are a lot of unreasonable custoemers in the world too). You just want to look at the number and types of complaints to see if you notice any general patterns.
Worst case, you could just randomly visit a couple for simple things like oil changes. You should be able to guage their service level from the way you are treated, and from looking and listening to how they treat other customers that are there at the same time as yourself.
Took my almost 3 yr old Malibu Maxx to the dealer to get some items fixed under warranty, including the famous front end rattle from the steering box. I was told that I needed a new control arm and my front and rear brakes done. The control arm, along with several other minor items were covered, but of course the brake job wasn't.
My question is this - how long (how many billable hours) should a 4 wheel disk brake jobe take? They billed me for 5 hours @ $99.00 per hour. The brake job with parts and tax cost me $748.00. This seems very excessive to me.
With todays prices that doesn't sound bad. Were the rotors all re-surfaced? That adds some time to the job. I like your account name. I'll bet it wouldn't have cost that much in 1950!
If they did the whole she-bang and used quality parts, that sounds fair enough (for a dealer). You could get cardboard brakes at one of the quickie-chains for 1/2 the price but the ONE thing you never skimp on is brakes.
Wow. The first time I changed out my own brake pads, it did not take me 5 hours even though I had to figure out what I was doing as I went along, plus make a trip down to the parts store to get a long breaker bar since the caliper nuts must have been impacted on and on and on. Now I can see the flat rate book specing out that much time, but a decent mechanic with a lift and power tools should take a couple of hours max. Okay, I guess if they rebuilt all 4 calipers, resurfaced the rotors, changed out the brake fluid and maybe wait on parts at the parts desk, you could get there :-)
About 10 years ago I took a Quest van with about 100K into what is now Value Brakes here in Memphis. By the time they got through recommending replace this caliper, etc. they were up to almost $400...plus to get the 'best warranty in the business' they advertise, you had to pay to replace the brake fluid ever 10K miles...wow. Needless to say I kept with the advertised 4 wheel $99 special.
I thought VB was a rip-off with their tactics, but the dealer apparently has even higher pricing.
Well "pads" isn't a "brake job", that's a pad replacement. A brake job would be (if done professionally I mean), new pads, new rotors, new anti-rattle clips, new pins, repack wheel bearings, flush entire brake system, power bleed system.
You know, you get what you pay for basically. Of course, the dealer has the highest labor rates.
So for a comparison, you need to see a) the two repair orders side and side, and b) you need to know the brand name of the parts installed.
Yes, it depends on what is done. The new pads I put on had the new hardware included. Rotors might be replaced if they can not be turned and stay within specs. Not sure about repacking bearings...would depend on the setup. The Jeep GC rotors slipped on the outside of the hubs. If service schedule calls for repacking at 100K miles, you might want to wait for that. I guess a professional brake job would also include servicing/rebuilding the calipers at a minimum as well. Flat rate book pricing probably includes time for ALL of those tasks, even if they are not needed on a particular job.
Of course, if the dealer replaced all 4 rotors as part of the job, then you probably got a great deal since I would think that would run at least $50-$75 or more each at a dealer. (Just checked at Napa online store...for example 2005 Malibu front rotors $75.99 each, rear $55.49 each)
Back when I was younger and running a repair shop with a friend (dinosaurs roamed the earth freely at that time), we simply wouldn't do a patch-up brake job. You either let us tear it all down and at least inspect it or you went somewhere else. Sure it cost more to come to us, but your car never stopped better.
Nowadays, with many cars using cheesy OEM rotors and 'quiet" pads that wear out so quickly, I think going whole hog on the brakes is more important than ever.
confused...the original poster was charged 5hrs at 99/hr. is that the going labor rate? yeow!
ok, is it ethical / acceptable to use the book for time (ex 5hrs) when 5 hours isn't spent by the employee.
that seems like an excessive repair anyway one looks at it.
did the person get new rotors? even with new rotors (which correct me if i'm wrong should have sped up the job at maybe $150 per pair), that seems like hundreds and hundreds too much doesn't it?
were the fronts and backs disc brakes?
ok, if they were, that would be what 300 for rotors, and pads all around, generously what a couple hundred, then the flush/fill.
Depends on what part of the country you are in. Where I live $130/hr is possible at some dealerships.
The debate on what is ethical is interesting, that is, is it honest to charge a "flat rate" when your technician in fact doesn't take that long to do the job.
It doesn't seem fair, but on the other hand, if a person is extremely good at what he does, and through years of experience can now do something in 1/2 hour that takes a rookie mechanic 2 hours, why do we punish the expert?
My only gripe with flat rate is that yeah, you pay for 2.0 hours if it only takes the mechanic 1.0, but you get a great job and so what's the complaint? BUT...if the mechanic runs into unforeseen difficulties and can't beat the flat rate (say, he breaks a stud or strips a bolt), then they charge you more...or try to.
Yeah, flat rate is an estimating tool basically, isn't it? Isn't the mechanic like a roofer?..."yeah, it'll cost $5,000 using this type of shingle, etc." The shop needs a way to estimate the job to you.
Of course, to be fair, sometimes the flat rate isn't in the mechanic's favor.
well, i don't want it to ever be NOT in the mechanic's favor. i mean i don't want the mechanic cutting corners. i want a great job if done in less, equal, or more than the estimated time. period.
no, i don't want it to cost more if they break a stud.
yes, if i complain of brake probs, they quote me a job, get in there and find a leaking line and everything else in spec, i EXPECT them to be honest and say, it didn't need a full job, just re-attachment of the line, flush and re-fill.
and if i'm paying for a brake job that includes rotors, i want to the new rotors please, not "well, your rotors were within spec" so not needed (but allow them to pocket additional profit by me paying full price).
i want to know if the guy/gal spent 10min on a 2hour job, yes I do. if i'm paying for a 2hour job and he/she raced through it, i want to know, yes i do. and if it was supposed to take 1 hour, and it took a novice tech 4, yes i want to know that too.
my explorer has 3 sets of brakes pads. the emergency brake pads cost more than the fronts or rears. go to otis ford, mention mark and get a discount. :surprise:
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
I was pressed for time this fall so I let my indie shop R&R the pads and rotors on my 1995 318ti. We used BMW rotors, Axxis Metalmaster pads, and also flushed the hydraulic(brake/clutch) system using ATE Super Blue Racing fluid. The front hubs are sealed units so there's no bearing service. Total cost? $627 I thought that was very reasonable, as the front pads will last @60K miles while the rears will go @110K miles- if I stay off the track, anyway...
My friend got a quote from a BMW for a full brake job on a BMW 750iL (V-12) and that was about $2,000. So we can always look to the less fortunate in our times of sorrow :P
there's nothing really cool about conversing with people on how much you have to spend to keep your ride on the road, unless of course you're part of some silly club that finds it one of the more meaningful and entertaining topics of conversation you can think of.
i see some ferraris and lamborghinis (sp?) in atlanta. some people have expensive toys, but why you'd want to drive a vehicle like this in atlanta traffic is, well, puzzling.
ok, for 6K, you get someone from the factory to fly over and install new pads and rotors for you right?
haven't i read in a forum here for some sedan, you have to remove the front bumper in order to replace the headlight bulb or something silly like that?
Since I started this theoretical discourse regarding charges for brakes, let me clarify my position - the brake job in question was merely a replacement of the pads on all 4 wheels (yes, it is 4 wheel disk brakes) and a resurface or the rotors on all 4 wheels. The charge for parts was $97.00 for the 4 sets of pads. Everything else was labor and tax. The total bill was $748.00. Now you may argue that you don't want the mechanic to cut corners, or that the charges were in the mechanic's favor, but this was a dealership - the mechanic is being paid a salary and the dealership is making the profit. Surfice it to say that this is the last repair I will authorize the dealer to make. I have a very honest and responsible shop much closer to home that usually maintains my cars.
Sounds like you got the ol' dealership ripoff. Good for you in finding an independent shop!
Even in dealerships, it's rare for mechanics to be paid a salary. They're generally paid using the flat rate system, so it's doubtful the mechanic pocketed much from your brake job.
Hummmm.... In my 1972 and 1981 Corvette, the battery was behind the drivers seat in a storage box area. Flipped the seat forward, opened the door, there is was. Toughest part was picking the battery up out of a box with your finger tips. I just tilted one end, put an old leather belt under it, and lifted it out.
Comments
Many Thanx to you folks who suggested the various avenues to take with this and especially the CT BBB for their fine efforts in bringing all this to a close.
Thanks all,,
Steve F
So the following day, I was scheduled to pick up my car in the afternoon. At noon-ish, the service technician called to say that the camber screws also need replacing. Should camber screws ever be replaced?? I expressed my conern in having to replace all these parts so soon and he kinda quickly told me that all these wear items were worn out in a short amount of time due to the way I was driving... I'm still not sure whether I buy it, but in the end, the damage was a whopping $2,000.
Anyone share a similar bad experience? Can I get these services done outside of a MB dealer?
Shouldn't MB be covered bumper to bumper including the maintnenance items for the first 4 years or 50,000 miles? Or did they do away with that?
1) Had the timing belt replaced on my Plymouth with V6 motor. A few days after leaving the dealership, the radiator cracked open where the upper radiator hose connects and experienced a complete loss of coolant. Dealership said it was a "coincidence" and did nothing. I say the mechanic dropped a tool or accidently hit the top of the radiator which weakened it causing it to crack when good and hot under pressure.
2) Nissan dealership service manager said its "brake fluid flush" consists of removing some of the brake fluid from the reservoir with a "turkey baster" like tool. It takes about 15 seconds. It does NOT consist of flushing the brake fluid from the wheel cylinders or calipers.
3) Another foreign dealership said that I should check with the parts department to see if the parts are in stock before making an appointment. I'm supposed to be an expert on what parts are needed.
Good grief!
As a guy who used to manage a large shop, I had to deal with a few people who loved to blame things on us.
" It never did that before so you guys MUST have done something!"
In your case, I would think it highly unlikely your cracked radiator had anything to do with a timing belt replacement.
I agree, extracting brake fluid from the reservoir as a "flush" is a cmoplete waste of time and money.
a couple of weeks ago, i brought in in because the airbag light was flashing again. i thought about the 'loud', but decided to not mention it. just fix the airbag light.
they call me after the time i asked for it to be ready and say they noticed it needs a new wheel bearing, can they keep it overnight?
time to eat dinner. i'll continue a bit later, in case anyone wants to read the rest of the continuing story.
You going to the autoshow this weekend?
I get a call in the afternoon from the service manager informing me that the car was in fact stolen from their warehouse. Apparently, the thief found the keys and drove off.
Fast forward three weeks, the car is recovered in decent shape. Now the dealer's insurance is telling me that they are going to clean up the car and give it back to me. The car was recovered with 300 miles more than I had on it.
I don't want this car back. Its not new. Its a used vehicle as far as I'm concerned. In any event, won't the resale value be permenently affected by the vehicle being a theft recovery?? I hope the dealership is willing to swap me a new car. Depressed in nyc.......
Any thoughts from the peanut gallery?
You took delivery, it's your car.
A theft recovery doesn't show up on a Car Fax or anywhere else so no big deal.
As a gesture, maybe the dealer can do something for you.
My story:
I got a nice invitation in the mail 'celebrating the relaunch' of Tom Chevrolet-Hyundai as Clay Chevrolet-Hyundai. Well all that money Clay spent on Tom Chevrolet? None of it went to service. Anyway, the invitation says "We invite you to visit us in Norwood for a FREE oil change and brake inspection (a $50 Value)." (Now I don't mind PAYING for an oil change or PAYING for a brake inspection, as long as it's done efficiently and honestly.)
I called up Clay (Tom) Chevrolet a few days ago and scheduled an appointment for the oil change and brake inspection. I got there today five minutes ahead of time and was told by the desk attendant that everything was all set, my car should go in next, and it will be an hour wait *on top of that* (an hour wait for an oil change and brake inspection? Anyway, I showed some pity (they didn't look THAT busy, however), and waited. and waited. and waited. at 12:45 (FORTY FIVE MINUTES AFTER MY SCHEDULED APPOINTMENT), my car (yes, a chevrolet) was STILL PARKED WHERE I HAD LEFT IT. So I asked for my keyes and left, and the desk attendant didn't seem the least bit apologetic (he seemed almost relieved to get rid of me).
Now this is not the first bad experience I had with them, there's another one and it was the same situation: Slower than mollasses. They had much more interest in eating their take-out lunch that arrived than servicing their customers.
How does a dealership like this survive in the wake of the Midas and Jiffy Lube franchises that do everything more quickly, cheaper, and with higher customer satisfaction rates?
Get with the program, Clay /Tom Chevrolet!
Avoid the chains.
You could also check a few of your local Chevy dealers on the Better Business Bureau's website...but keep in mind, I would bet most every service department, regardless how good they are, have had complaints filed against them with the BBB (remember, there are a lot of unreasonable custoemers in the world too). You just want to look at the number and types of complaints to see if you notice any general patterns.
Worst case, you could just randomly visit a couple for simple things like oil changes. You should be able to guage their service level from the way you are treated, and from looking and listening to how they treat other customers that are there at the same time as yourself.
My question is this - how long (how many billable hours) should a 4 wheel disk brake jobe take? They billed me for 5 hours @ $99.00 per hour. The brake job with parts and tax cost me $748.00. This seems very excessive to me.
Any thoughts?
About 10 years ago I took a Quest van with about 100K into what is now Value Brakes here in Memphis. By the time they got through recommending replace this caliper, etc. they were up to almost $400...plus to get the 'best warranty in the business' they advertise, you had to pay to replace the brake fluid ever 10K miles...wow. Needless to say I kept with the advertised 4 wheel $99 special.
I thought VB was a rip-off with their tactics, but the dealer apparently has even higher pricing.
You know, you get what you pay for basically. Of course, the dealer has the highest labor rates.
So for a comparison, you need to see a) the two repair orders side and side, and b) you need to know the brand name of the parts installed.
Of course, if the dealer replaced all 4 rotors as part of the job, then you probably got a great deal since I would think that would run at least $50-$75 or more each at a dealer. (Just checked at Napa online store...for example 2005 Malibu front rotors $75.99 each, rear $55.49 each)
Nowadays, with many cars using cheesy OEM rotors and 'quiet" pads that wear out so quickly, I think going whole hog on the brakes is more important than ever.
ok, is it ethical / acceptable to use the book for time (ex 5hrs) when 5 hours isn't spent by the employee.
that seems like an excessive repair anyway one looks at it.
did the person get new rotors? even with new rotors (which correct me if i'm wrong should have sped up the job at maybe $150 per pair), that seems like hundreds and hundreds too much doesn't it?
were the fronts and backs disc brakes?
ok, if they were, that would be what 300 for rotors, and pads all around, generously what a couple hundred, then the flush/fill.
but 750?
The debate on what is ethical is interesting, that is, is it honest to charge a "flat rate" when your technician in fact doesn't take that long to do the job.
It doesn't seem fair, but on the other hand, if a person is extremely good at what he does, and through years of experience can now do something in 1/2 hour that takes a rookie mechanic 2 hours, why do we punish the expert?
flat rate? isn't that what we always pay anyway?
Yeah, flat rate is an estimating tool basically, isn't it? Isn't the mechanic like a roofer?..."yeah, it'll cost $5,000 using this type of shingle, etc." The shop needs a way to estimate the job to you.
Of course, to be fair, sometimes the flat rate isn't in the mechanic's favor.
no, i don't want it to cost more if they break a stud.
yes, if i complain of brake probs, they quote me a job, get in there and find a leaking line and everything else in spec, i EXPECT them to be honest and say, it didn't need a full job, just re-attachment of the line, flush and re-fill.
and if i'm paying for a brake job that includes rotors, i want to the new rotors please, not "well, your rotors were within spec" so not needed (but allow them to pocket additional profit by me paying full price).
i want to know if the guy/gal spent 10min on a 2hour job, yes I do. if i'm paying for a 2hour job and he/she raced through it, i want to know, yes i do. and if it was supposed to take 1 hour, and it took a novice tech 4, yes i want to know that too.
go to otis ford, mention mark and get a discount. :surprise:
I thought that was very reasonable, as the front pads will last @60K miles while the rears will go @110K miles- if I stay off the track, anyway...
Its just like any other high end euro vehicle they are expensive to maintain.
there's nothing really cool about conversing with people on how much you have to spend to keep your ride on the road, unless of course you're part of some silly club that finds it one of the more meaningful and entertaining topics of conversation you can think of.
ok, for 6K, you get someone from the factory to fly over and install new pads and rotors for you right?
It makes a batter replacment like 7-8 hours book time.
Now you may argue that you don't want the mechanic to cut corners, or that the charges were in the mechanic's favor, but this was a dealership - the mechanic is being paid a salary and the dealership is making the profit.
Surfice it to say that this is the last repair I will authorize the dealer to make. I have a very honest and responsible shop much closer to home that usually maintains my cars.
Even in dealerships, it's rare for mechanics to be paid a salary. They're generally paid using the flat rate system, so it's doubtful the mechanic pocketed much from your brake job.
In my 1972 and 1981 Corvette, the battery was behind the drivers seat in a storage box area. Flipped the seat forward, opened the door, there is was. Toughest part was picking the battery up out of a box with your finger tips. I just tilted one end, put an old leather belt under it, and lifted it out.