Yep...sounds about right especially if you don't get an itemized estimate before authorizing the job. Many of us have made that mistake a time or two and found out how the ole 'flat rate' book works. That is why many of us try and find alternate shops to perform necessary services. Also, beware of the 'scheduled maintenance' jobs pushed by many dealers. Many of these will include a lot of inspect this & that not called for in the Mfg service schedule that increase the price alot.
I'll go back to my original feeling that a mechanic that has done a couple dozen of these replace pad/resurface rotor jobs would normally spend maybe 2 hours doing the job.
haven't i read in a forum here for some sedan, you have to remove the front bumper in order to replace the headlight bulb or something silly like that?
If memory serves, it is part of the procedure in the repair manual for replacing the headlight bulb on the 2002-2006 Altima. But, if you have small hands, you can get at the bulb from behind the lamp housing just like any other car. To add insult to injury and busted knuckles, the earlier models had a grounding problem that caused the low-beam headlights to burn out more frequently than they should have, but Nissan did come up with a grounding adapter retrofit that fixed the problem.
Here's another problem with Vovo of Richardson sister dealership to Volvo of Dallas. They knowingly sell previously wrecked vehicles without disclosing that information. Sure, they're happy to show you a CARFAX, especially when it doesn't reveal the repair work they know has been done on the car. My future business is going to Park Place Volvo. I don't appreciate getting lied to. And car dealers wonder why they get such a bad rap.
DO NOT TAKE YOUR CAR TO ANYONE NAMED JUSTIN KNAPP IN PHOENIX. Apparently he owns and operates a BMW service center in downtown Phoenix. A good friend of mine did less than $13 worth of business with him yesterday and the guy flipped out over a simple mistake. I mean he TOTALLY lost his composure and professionalism was out the window. If he reacted this way to something so insignificant, I don’t even want to think of what he would to a $40,000 car. Unless you’re itching for some daytime TV drama, I would suggest you stay far, FAR away from this guy and his shop and warn your friends to do the same.
Does anyone know how to reach an actual person at NISSAN USA?
I filed a case on my Pathfinder on September 12th and have yet to receive a response on the 21st! When I call, they say, someone will call you within 24 hours. Leave a message on the specialist's voice mail, nothing.
The rudeness is just unbelievable!
I've owned 3 Nissan cars. This will be my last. This pathfinder is on its third engine and now the computer is broken. The dealer mechanic says I have to replace the wiring harness. I think he's giving up, and just trying random things in the hopes something will work. in the meantime, I'm out of a car, and no one seems to be able to fix it!
thanks for allowing me to vent. And of course, if you know how to break through Nissan's customer prevention system, I'd love to hear about it!
Or.... Edmunds could hire a private investigator to make sure that every single post in all these discussions are 100% accurate. Of course that may mean shifty, tidester and the rest of the gang taking a slight pay cut. :sick:
You mean some of the things I find on the internet may not be true?
Horrors!
Knowing this, I now have to make some adjustments in my love life, heath supplement purchases, automobile likes and dislikes (ba, humbug to Edmunds), political support and voting directions, etc, etc.
The list is endless.
My internet browsing had become the central guidance of my life. Now this must change. Is it time to fall back on my previous source of enlightment, television evanglists?
I am Justin Knapp. I wish I knew who this person was, because I do not charge for things that are $13. This person is obviously a FRAUD, and I would like to talk to her. I definitely do not put up with difficult clients who cannot afford their messed up cars, but $13 is a joke. This client cannot obviously afford the car she owns. Regards, Justin.
Im desperate for help! Just bought a brand new blacdk Hyundai Santa Fe 2007 about 1 month ago. After washing it 1 week into ownership-I saw deep scratches and little dents in hood as well as deep swirls in the paint that had obviously been hidden by a heavy wax job. Went to dealer (who just happened to change ownership during the short time since I bought the car) and they said they didnt have to help me. But I had spoken to a lawyer and I had a quote from repair place that had been highly recommended-they said the hood would have to be repaired and repainted. They seemed very above board. Dealer happens to contract work with this shop so they reluctantly agreed to have work done. They had it for a week. Picked up car a few days ago-was cloudy and lots of rain and dust before first bright sunny day yesterday. To my disgust, in the sun I noticed more swirls all over hood, a large scratch, and in my garage last night it was evident that the black paint on the hood does not match the black on the rest of the car. Hood looks terrible, hazy. Im so upset and frustrated. what can i do now? What recourse do I have. Help, please!!
If not, when repainted, they buffed it out. When you buff paint, you get swirls. Especially easy to see on black.
This might be just about as good as it gets.
Unless they actually used the wrong 'black' color. There are a lot of black colors. I sure would hope a body shop would be smart enough to match the correct color code on the car.
I try hard to talk my customers out of buying black cars for this very reason.
A wax job won't hide dents so my guess would be the dents happened after you bought the car or they were so small you didn't notice them when you took delivery.
Personally, I would have left it alone and lived with it. You will always have swirls that you will be able to see if you try hard enough.
Your gripe now should be with the body shop. They will probably have to strip the hood to bare metal and repaint it.
No the scratches multiple linear deep scratches across the entire hood (in a line)near the edge close to the windshield.They did not happen after I took possession of the car. They "magically" appeared after washing the car. The dents were very tiny not big craters.
The dealer admitted it was probably something that happened there-that an attendant likely dragged a pressure washer hose over the hood that had gravel on it.
Its insulting that you say that personally you would have left it alone-as if Im being "picky" or something. Far from it. The swirls were deep ones in a line along the scratches where someone obviously tried to buff them out. Not just normal light swirls. I paid good money (cash) in good faith and in return I expect as a consumer to get a nondamaged car. My gripe will always go back to the dealer because they sold me the car and it is their responsibility to make things right. The paint job issues are between them and the body shop not me and the body shop.
According to another reputable body shop I spoke to today, it might be impossible to ever get the paint quite right because it is not factory paint and they would have to blend it into the other areas of the car.
That really has nothing to do with my advise. Just my experience from a lot of years around auto shops and body shops.
I didn't mean to be insulting but I didn't get to see your car either. What is "bad" to one person can be hardly noticible to another. I MAY have left things alone or I MAY have complained loudly.
I just don't like my new cars to get touched up.
I guess I didn't read that the dealer sent it to a body shop of their choosing. If this is the case then, yes, it's their baby.
A quality body shop should be able to match that paint and do a good job for you. If they think you may be difficult to please they may leave themselves an "out" by telling you it might not be 100% perfect.
I know what youre saying. In this case im pretty sure Im being reasonable and not just a pain in the butt! I just emailed pics to the dealer GM after speaking to him on the phone. One problem with the whole thing is that the ownership changed about a week after I bought the car. The GM told me that if Im not happy beyond this, I will probably have to take it up with the previous owner, although he wasnt 100% sure. Do you know if this is true, or does the new owner of the dealership inherit problems with the purchase of the business??
I don't know. You would THINK the new owner would want to do the right thing.
Here is what we do and this eliminates the problem.
When we deliver a new car, we ask the buyer to walk around the car and inspect it. I'll tell them " It's speak now or forever hold your peace".
Some people (most) will take about 30 seconds looking the car over and I have had others take a half hour going over the car inch by inch. I don't care how long they spend. I want them happy and I DON'T want them coming back saying there was a scratch or something. I DON'T want a bad survey because of a bit of glue on a moulding or something.
Then, when the customer is happy, I have them sign a release form. I have had people get nervous, set the pen down and go back and re-inspect the car. That's fine.
On clearance cars that we are selling cheap, I'll tell them.."Look it over carefully. IF there is a small scratch or smudge, I'm not going to fix it for this price" They are always fine with that.
The warranty wouldn't cover paint unless it was a FACTORY defect. If some careless lot attendant dragged a hose over the hood, that wouldn't be warranty work.
I had a customer the other day ask me if a windshield ding on his nearly new Honda was covered by warranty! Honest!
Just because it is black paint doesn't mean someone has to put up with it. A random orbital buffer, such as the Porter Cable 7424, can remove swirls without a whole lot of expert skill by the user.
I've read that you can stand on a PC7424 and it won't damage the paint, although I wouldn't want to test that theory on my car.
You still have to use a quality polishing compound, which can vary depending on the severity of the swirls or scratches. My preference is Zaino but waxes and polishes are like a religion and people tend to be set in their ways once they find something they like.
i bought my car from a dealer, and the salesman told me they fixed everything in the car, when i asked for the maintainance list two times already. he said he was gona look 4 it. apparently he didnt, cuz he never showed it to me. so i believed everything was gona be ok. but two weeks later i had to go to them to have something in the wheels fixed. and then i went again in a month or so, cuz there was a problem with rotors, and 3 days after the last appointment, my WHOLE TIRE FELL OFF on the HIGHWAY! and when i went back they never even apologized, they said that maybe some one tried to STEAL MY RIM! how ridiculous could that be? i said i want my money back, cuz i've had too much troubles with this car in these 2 moths, (and its just 2 months passed since i purchased it!), but he said he would give me $11, 000 for the car i purchased from him 2 months ago for $14,000 (tax included). and its them that caused the problem, by not tightening the log nuts! come on, i could even get hurt if i didnt have this thought to move to the right lane and slow down more, and now they try to fool me again? i dunno, i personally wouldnt go to any dealer right now cuz all they care is about them selves, and we can kill our selves or get harmed, and they would say, "THINGS HAPPEN". well that doesnt help much!
what would any of you do if you were in my situation? cuz i just want them to take the car and give me money back. i really liked the car, but now - no.
WOW ... that's some story Mark. Based on your documentation(and others via e-mail) I would agree that Otis Ford truly sucks.
What has Otis Ford's defense been though? If they fraudulently put used parts on your car and did a horrible job with repair, why haven't you been able to prevail in court? I see you've been fighting Otis for 10 years... have they made no concessions or offers to resolve the issue?
the car is used, it has 3 months or 4000 mi warranty. and it wasnt "as is".thats why i bought the car form a dealer, so it wouldnt be as is. thing is, the salesman even said that they are going to check the car , so there is nothing wrong, and he said that they do a good job. i dont wanna sue them, i just want my money back, but if they dont want it to be in a good way, then its gona be opposite.(by-the-way im in New York state..) but i have the right to request all my money back, right? even the tax money, cuz it wasnt my fault..
The vehicle is running okay now, right? You might want to pay to take it somewhere and have them do an inspection on it. Give you a list of stuff that needs fixed so you get it all fixed while under warranty.
You might benefit from carefully reading the warranty to see exactly what is covered. I would not expect that it has a "satisfaction or your money back" provision. :shades:
Your horror story is really no different from any used buy situation. I know that you.. or did... probably hold the dealer in higher regards when you signed for that car. Probably because they are big and shiny? But in reality, when it comes to used cars, there is very little difference between them and the "Honest Willie's Spray and Pray Used Cars" on the next corner. Only notable difference is that the used car lot of dealers tend to deal in newer, lower mileage used cars than what Slick Willie's is willing to get involved with.
In the end, it is a business. It must make a profit. Every dollar that they spend on the car fixing things before the sale is one less dollar of profit they can make. That is the case everywhere at any used car lot. They have a bottom line to watch and will usually "inspect" a vehicle with blinders on. Some things they will fix, and somethings they let go. Largely, how much they fix before the sale has to do with how much they have in the purchase of the car versus what they can resell it at. The larger the profit margin, the more they will fix.
Now... as for laws... I don't know where you are, but I can tell you what used car purchasing is like in South Carolina. If the car lot approaches you and directly solicits your sale, then they have to warranty the vehicle for 3 days. If you approach them... which is how nearly all of these deals work. Then the car is sold as-is. If there is no factory warranty left then it is your baby. I seriously and truly mean this from the second you finish signing the paperwork. I don't care if after your final signatures, even before you even get to drive the car off of the sale's lot, even before you sit in the seat, even before the ink dries on the paperwork... if the car were to completely fall apart and burst into flames right there... even on the selling dealer's property... there is NO warranty. It is all your's... enjoy.
It is %100 buyer beware.
For this reason, you should aways have a vehicle inspected by a technician that you trust before committing to any used car purchase. Don't take the car lot's word for anything. Big dealer, little independent dealer, private individual... doesn't matter. Have the vehicle inspected by someone you trust. But, remember this, that very few things can be predicted. A good technician should be able to protect you from buying something that is already broken, but may not be able to predict something that is about to break even if it is a next-day situation.
I took my Chrysler 300 Touring in for a repair (no heat, still under 3/36k warranty, and I purchased the 100k extended warranty at time of sale) at the dealership where it was purchased. They said it needed a water pump and thermostat, but the water pump was on backorder. Odometer when I dropped it off:14936. They kept pushing me off, telling me the part wasn't in, and then when it finally arrived (1 1/2 weeks later), it did not solve the problem. SO, they determined a blockage in the fueling system was causing the issue, and several acid flushes later, the problem was solved. A total of three weeks in the dealership garage.
When I went to pick the car up, I noticed several issues:
1. My gas tank was empty. When I dropped it off it was nearly full (7/8 full). 2. The odometer read 15356. It was driven 420 miles! 3. An empty juice container was under the seat. I have never drank juice in the car. 4. A McDonald's receipt at 10:05pm at a city 20 miles away during the three week repair period.
I approached the assistant service manager, and he informed me that they had to drive that many miles to see if the heat was going to work. Obviously, I told him that was ridiculous.
I went to the service manager who looked at the vehicle and my evidence, and said he would get back to me. Still waiting on a call.
I have called Chrysler, and they informed me it was a dealership issue that I would have to take up with the owner, not Chrysler. They did document my case and provided me a customer care number.
So wise ones ---- what course of remedy do I pursue? Thanks.
I'd say get a notorized statement from a couple reputable mechnics stating 420 miles is not necessary to see if the heater worked. Present that to the service manager if his response is not satisfactory.
I'd ask that they eat the cost of labor on the repairs they made. You could take it to small claims court if not satisfied with answer. I don't think joyriding, stopping at McDonalds and drinking boxed juice is professional behavior when test driving anothers vehicle.
I would have to agree,,,nobody needs to test drive a vehicle 400+ miles to determine if its ok. Anybody living in any kind of cold climate knows a five or ten minute warm-up in the morning and your on your way. If the facility actually believes they are doing the right thing, they need to hire some real techs and a manager.
I would recommend starting out with the local Better Business Bureau and see what they have on these guys. I'm thinking this is such a blatant and ridiculous situation that this can't be the first instance of monkey business on their part. You might find out you are not the only one that they have tried to put the screws to, and what others have done to settle things with them. It almost sounds like they may be using a customer's vehicle for other reasons. Of course you would actually have to catch them in the act, but let's face it. Multiple similar complaints can be good evidence in recovering your losses.
I agree, their diagnosis is totally bizarre. Unless they meant blockage in the cooling system....but even so, "acid flushes"?
This whole thing sounds like it needs further investigation at the dealership level, perhaps showing the evidence to the CEO himself/herself. I think he/she needs to know what's going on in that shop.
I'd ask that they eat the cost of labor on the repairs they made
I understand your car was still under warranty. So, I'd want reimbursement on the extra mileage, 3 weeks of rental car (even if you didn't have one), a Big Mac... and a couple Happy Meals for you kids.
On the repair order, does the mileage in and mileage out coincide with your figures?
The other thing. If it does and it is fact that they drove 420 miles, assuming that they could actually drive it a constant 60 mph, that is 7 hours of driving!!
he informed me that they had to drive that many miles to see if the heat was going to work.
The most I have ever driven any vehicle on a test drive was 40 miles. If the vehicle didn't have heat in the first 30 miles, then it ain't gonna.
They said it needed a water pump and thermostat, but the water pump was on backorder. Odometer when I dropped it off:14936. They kept pushing me off, telling me the part wasn't in, and then when it finally arrived (1 1/2 weeks later), it did not solve the problem. SO, they determined a blockage in the fueling system was causing the issue, and several acid flushes later, the problem was solved.
I'm really having a problem understanding how it went from a cooling system problem to a fuel problem??? The fuel system, in no way, shape or form, has anything to do with your heating system.
Sorry, but none of that makes any sense, unless I am missing something.
1. I said fueling system, I meant to say cooling system. There was no talk of any fuel issue. My misspeak.
2. The repair order does indeed have the milage in and milage out, and it is 420 miles. In: 14936 Out: 15356
Sorry about the confusion with the fueling/cooling system. Typing this after midnight and angry was not conducive to clear terminology.
So, I know what they did is wrong. So do they. The question is...... what do I do from here to remedy the situation. This only occurred two days ago, so it is still fresh on my mind.
I would say if the warranty fully covered all repair work, they still owe you at least a tank of gas -- not pocket change these days! And if their McDonald's meal left behind any stains, crumbs, or smells, then you deserve an interior cleaning as well.
Send a certified letter to the owner of the dealership detailing the events and conversations you had with the service manager immediately!!! What they did was completely unprofessional and borderline illegal. If it was simply a tech taking the car home overnight to see how it responded first thing in the morning and stopped at McD's cause he got hungry at 10 pm at night. but to drive it 420 miles is ridiculous.
WOW!... that's a heck of a lot of miles! But, the only thing is... I don't see any mention from you about how long YOU have to drive it to make it act up. I mean, was this a constant, can't fire it up and get to the grocery store without overheating and loosing heat? Or was this a long-drive or intermittent problem for you?
I ask because, I've run some serious miles on customer's vehicles before on odd intermittent problems. I just had an air bag light problem that I could not ever make act up. I had it for WEEKS at a time. I drove it, the service manager drove it, the shop foreman drove it. I know we put over a hundred miles on it one time over a 3 week period while she was in a loner. It let, it would act up on her and right back it came. Weeks at a time again. I'd drive it, SM, foreman. The SM drove it home (80 miles round trip). Gave it back to her... then back again. She could make it act up in 2 or 3 weeks of her driving it.. but not me. So, again.. here we go. I ended up getting it to act up and I fixed it, but I drove it home twice, the SM drove it home twice, the SM drop it all over town... I know we put 500 miles on that Freestar Van.
For what it is worth, have you got the 3.5L in that car? My Chrysler experience has gotten a little rusty since I am now in a Ford dealer, but a Chrylser dealer tech friend of mine was telling me about how a passage from the T-stat housing is very common on those to become clogged with casting-slag materials from the factory causing overheat and loss of heater action.
Comments
I'll go back to my original feeling that a mechanic that has done a couple dozen of these replace pad/resurface rotor jobs would normally spend maybe 2 hours doing the job.
If memory serves, it is part of the procedure in the repair manual for replacing the headlight bulb on the 2002-2006 Altima. But, if you have small hands, you can get at the bulb from behind the lamp housing just like any other car. To add insult to injury and busted knuckles, the earlier models had a grounding problem that caused the low-beam headlights to burn out more frequently than they should have, but Nissan did come up with a grounding adapter retrofit that fixed the problem.
I filed a case on my Pathfinder on September 12th and have yet to receive a response on the 21st! When I call, they say, someone will call you within 24 hours. Leave a message on the specialist's voice mail, nothing.
The rudeness is just unbelievable!
I've owned 3 Nissan cars. This will be my last. This pathfinder is on its third engine and now the computer is broken. The dealer mechanic says I have to replace the wiring harness. I think he's giving up, and just trying random things in the hopes something will work. in the meantime, I'm out of a car, and no one seems to be able to fix it!
thanks for allowing me to vent. And of course, if you know how to break through Nissan's customer prevention system, I'd love to hear about it!
Mark
I don't like this.
Someone decides to come here and slam a shop and name names?
" A good friend of mine did less than 13.00 worth of business"
13.00?? In a BMW shop no less?
I just don't think it's right that someone can come here and slander a place of business. they could be a competitor or a disgruntled ex-employee.
This wasn't a dealer either, just a "shop".
I don't buy it...sorry!
Just my two cents for what it's worth.
Or.... Edmunds could hire a private investigator to make sure that every single post in all these discussions are 100% accurate. Of course that may mean shifty, tidester and the rest of the gang taking a slight pay cut. :sick:
Horrors!
Knowing this, I now have to make some adjustments in my love life, heath supplement purchases, automobile likes and dislikes (ba, humbug to Edmunds), political support and voting directions, etc, etc.
The list is endless.
My internet browsing had become the central guidance of my life. Now this must change. Is it time to fall back on my previous source of enlightment, television evanglists?
Some believe EVERYTHING they read in these forums. I get to deal with some of these people.
If nothing else, having the correct information on their vehicle will provide them with a way to double check what they are being told.
Regards, Justin.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Just bought a brand new blacdk Hyundai Santa Fe 2007 about 1 month ago. After washing it 1 week into ownership-I saw deep scratches and little dents in hood as well as deep swirls in the paint that had obviously been hidden by a heavy wax job. Went to dealer (who just happened to change ownership during the short time since I bought the car) and they said they didnt have to help me. But I had spoken to a lawyer and I had a quote from repair place that had been highly recommended-they said the hood would have to be repaired and repainted. They seemed very above board. Dealer happens to contract work with this shop so they reluctantly agreed to have work done. They had it for a week. Picked up car a few days ago-was cloudy and lots of rain and dust before first bright sunny day yesterday. To my disgust, in the sun I noticed more swirls all over hood, a large scratch, and in my garage last night it was evident that the black paint on the hood does not match the black on the rest of the car. Hood looks terrible, hazy. Im so upset and frustrated. what can i do now? What recourse do I have. Help, please!!
Is the paint clear coated?
If not, when repainted, they buffed it out. When you buff paint, you get swirls. Especially easy to see on black.
This might be just about as good as it gets.
Unless they actually used the wrong 'black' color. There are a lot of black colors. I sure would hope a body shop would be smart enough to match the correct color code on the car.
I try hard to talk my customers out of buying black cars for this very reason.
A wax job won't hide dents so my guess would be the dents happened after you bought the car or they were so small you didn't notice them when you took delivery.
Personally, I would have left it alone and lived with it. You will always have swirls that you will be able to see if you try hard enough.
Your gripe now should be with the body shop. They will probably have to strip the hood to bare metal and repaint it.
No the scratches multiple linear deep scratches across the entire hood (in a line)near the edge close to the windshield.They did not happen after I took possession of the car. They "magically" appeared after washing the car. The dents were very tiny not big craters.
The dealer admitted it was probably something that happened there-that an attendant likely dragged a pressure washer hose over the hood that had gravel on it.
Its insulting that you say that personally you would have left it alone-as if Im being "picky" or something. Far from it. The swirls were deep ones in a line along the scratches where someone obviously tried to buff them out. Not just normal light swirls. I paid good money (cash) in good faith and in return I expect as a consumer to get a nondamaged car. My gripe will always go back to the dealer because they sold me the car and it is their responsibility to make things right. The paint job issues are between them and the body shop not me and the body shop.
According to another reputable body shop I spoke to today, it might be impossible to ever get the paint quite right because it is not factory paint and they would have to blend it into the other areas of the car.
This is simply unacceptable for a new car.
That really has nothing to do with my advise. Just my experience from a lot of years around auto shops and body shops.
I didn't mean to be insulting but I didn't get to see your car either. What is "bad" to one person can be hardly noticible to another. I MAY have left things alone or I MAY have complained loudly.
I just don't like my new cars to get touched up.
I guess I didn't read that the dealer sent it to a body shop of their choosing. If this is the case then, yes, it's their baby.
A quality body shop should be able to match that paint and do a good job for you. If they think you may be difficult to please they may leave themselves an "out" by telling you it might not be 100% perfect.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Here is what we do and this eliminates the problem.
When we deliver a new car, we ask the buyer to walk around the car and inspect it. I'll tell them " It's speak now or forever hold your peace".
Some people (most) will take about 30 seconds looking the car over and I have had others take a half hour going over the car inch by inch. I don't care how long they spend. I want them happy and I DON'T want them coming back saying there was a scratch or something. I DON'T want a bad survey because of a bit of glue on a moulding or something.
Then, when the customer is happy, I have them sign a release form. I have had people get nervous, set the pen down and go back and re-inspect the car. That's fine.
On clearance cars that we are selling cheap, I'll tell them.."Look it over carefully. IF there is a small scratch or smudge, I'm not going to fix it for this price" They are always fine with that.
Another thing...no car is ever PERFECT!
The warranty covers paint, doesn't it?
I had a customer the other day ask me if a windshield ding on his nearly new Honda was covered by warranty! Honest!
At the very least the dealer should cover it.
But, like was said, black is probably the worst color for swirls in the paint.
I've read that you can stand on a PC7424 and it won't damage the paint, although I wouldn't want to test that theory on my car.
You still have to use a quality polishing compound, which can vary depending on the severity of the swirls or scratches. My preference is Zaino but waxes and polishes are like a religion and people tend to be set in their ways once they find something they like.
If used, was it purchased 'as is', or was there some written warranty?
What state are you in? There is a state or two where I don't think the car can be sold 'as is', it has to provide some reasonable level of service.
But in most states, a used car sold with an 'as is' statement - it's your problem.
What has Otis Ford's defense been though? If they fraudulently put used parts on your car and did a horrible job with repair, why haven't you been able to prevail in court? I see you've been fighting Otis for 10 years... have they made no concessions or offers to resolve the issue?
but i have the right to request all my money back, right? even the tax money, cuz it wasnt my fault..
james
In the end, it is a business. It must make a profit. Every dollar that they spend on the car fixing things before the sale is one less dollar of profit they can make. That is the case everywhere at any used car lot. They have a bottom line to watch and will usually "inspect" a vehicle with blinders on. Some things they will fix, and somethings they let go. Largely, how much they fix before the sale has to do with how much they have in the purchase of the car versus what they can resell it at. The larger the profit margin, the more they will fix.
Now... as for laws... I don't know where you are, but I can tell you what used car purchasing is like in South Carolina. If the car lot approaches you and directly solicits your sale, then they have to warranty the vehicle for 3 days. If you approach them... which is how nearly all of these deals work. Then the car is sold as-is. If there is no factory warranty left then it is your baby. I seriously and truly mean this from the second you finish signing the paperwork. I don't care if after your final signatures, even before you even get to drive the car off of the sale's lot, even before you sit in the seat, even before the ink dries on the paperwork... if the car were to completely fall apart and burst into flames right there... even on the selling dealer's property... there is NO warranty. It is all your's... enjoy.
It is %100 buyer beware.
For this reason, you should aways have a vehicle inspected by a technician that you trust before committing to any used car purchase. Don't take the car lot's word for anything. Big dealer, little independent dealer, private individual... doesn't matter. Have the vehicle inspected by someone you trust. But, remember this, that very few things can be predicted. A good technician should be able to protect you from buying something that is already broken, but may not be able to predict something that is about to break even if it is a next-day situation.
When I went to pick the car up, I noticed several issues:
1. My gas tank was empty. When I dropped it off it was nearly full (7/8 full).
2. The odometer read 15356. It was driven 420 miles!
3. An empty juice container was under the seat. I have never drank juice in the car.
4. A McDonald's receipt at 10:05pm at a city 20 miles away during the three week repair period.
I approached the assistant service manager, and he informed me that they had to drive that many miles to see if the heat was going to work. Obviously, I told him that was ridiculous.
I went to the service manager who looked at the vehicle and my evidence, and said he would get back to me. Still waiting on a call.
I have called Chrysler, and they informed me it was a dealership issue that I would have to take up with the owner, not Chrysler. They did document my case and provided me a customer care number.
So wise ones ---- what course of remedy do I pursue? Thanks.
I'd ask that they eat the cost of labor on the repairs they made. You could take it to small claims court if not satisfied with answer. I don't think joyriding, stopping at McDonalds and drinking boxed juice is professional behavior when test driving anothers vehicle.
I would recommend starting out with the local Better Business Bureau and see what they have on these guys. I'm thinking this is such a blatant and ridiculous situation that this can't be the first instance of monkey business on their part. You might find out you are not the only one that they have tried to put the screws to, and what others have done to settle things with them. It almost sounds like they may be using a customer's vehicle for other reasons. Of course you would actually have to catch them in the act, but let's face it. Multiple similar complaints can be good evidence in recovering your losses.
Good luck, hope everything works out for you,,,
ST
This whole thing sounds like it needs further investigation at the dealership level, perhaps showing the evidence to the CEO himself/herself. I think he/she needs to know what's going on in that shop.
I understand your car was still under warranty. So, I'd want reimbursement on the extra mileage, 3 weeks of rental car (even if you didn't have one), a Big Mac... and a couple Happy Meals for you kids.
On the repair order, does the mileage in and mileage out coincide with your figures?
The other thing. If it does and it is fact that they drove 420 miles, assuming that they could actually drive it a constant 60 mph, that is 7 hours of driving!!
he informed me that they had to drive that many miles to see if the heat was going to work.
The most I have ever driven any vehicle on a test drive was 40 miles.
If the vehicle didn't have heat in the first 30 miles, then it ain't gonna.
They said it needed a water pump and thermostat, but the water pump was on backorder. Odometer when I dropped it off:14936. They kept pushing me off, telling me the part wasn't in, and then when it finally arrived (1 1/2 weeks later), it did not solve the problem. SO, they determined a blockage in the fueling system was causing the issue, and several acid flushes later, the problem was solved.
I'm really having a problem understanding how it went from a cooling system problem to a fuel problem???
The fuel system, in no way, shape or form, has anything to do with your heating system.
Sorry, but none of that makes any sense, unless I am missing something.
1. I said fueling system, I meant to say cooling system. There was no talk of any fuel issue. My misspeak.
2. The repair order does indeed have the milage in and milage out, and it is 420 miles. In: 14936 Out: 15356
Sorry about the confusion with the fueling/cooling system. Typing this after midnight and angry was not conducive to clear terminology.
So, I know what they did is wrong. So do they. The question is...... what do I do from here to remedy the situation. This only occurred two days ago, so it is still fresh on my mind.
I told you what to do. Now go do it! :surprise:
I ask because, I've run some serious miles on customer's vehicles before on odd intermittent problems. I just had an air bag light problem that I could not ever make act up. I had it for WEEKS at a time. I drove it, the service manager drove it, the shop foreman drove it. I know we put over a hundred miles on it one time over a 3 week period while she was in a loner. It let, it would act up on her and right back it came. Weeks at a time again. I'd drive it, SM, foreman. The SM drove it home (80 miles round trip). Gave it back to her... then back again. She could make it act up in 2 or 3 weeks of her driving it.. but not me. So, again.. here we go. I ended up getting it to act up and I fixed it, but I drove it home twice, the SM drove it home twice, the SM drop it all over town... I know we put 500 miles on that Freestar Van.
For what it is worth, have you got the 3.5L in that car? My Chrysler experience has gotten a little rusty since I am now in a Ford dealer, but a Chrylser dealer tech friend of mine was telling me about how a passage from the T-stat housing is very common on those to become clogged with casting-slag materials from the factory causing overheat and loss of heater action.