More anecdotes. At the OKC auto show both the MKZ and MKX were attracting attention from a wide variety of age groups. At least, the crowds certainly seemed as heavy as those around the cars' likely competitors.
There were a significant number of photos taken of the MKZ over what I would suspect be at least a 5 to 10 minute period of time. Not one photo at one point as you put it. Unfortunately, those numerous photos revealed to me a lack of interest by the general public toward the MKZ. I would have liked to have seen 4 or 5 or more people standing around looking at the MKZ during the time those photos were taken.
I would also love to have a ton of folks standing around in the Lincoln booth. I think most young folks think a Lincoln is too expensive for them.
I was in the Lincoln booth at the Orlando Auto show and the traffic was in the mid-range. The exotic autos had most of the traffic with folks looking at cars they could not afford. The Ford/Mercury/Lincoln booths were laid out pretty nice. My major complaint is that they had drab green hybrids off to the side of the booth.
On the positive side just thank God we were not the Buick booth. It was dead as a graveyard!
I was at the San Antonio auto show last November and throughout the hour and a half or so that i was there, I saw more people drawn to the MKZ than to the Lexus ES 350 or the Acura TL. The typical age group seemed to the in their 50s though some young folks stopped and stared as well. I heard more than one person say they were surprised at how cheap the MKZ was for all it offers.
At the Baltimore show, I saw an equal number of people stopping to look at the MKZ as the Acura TL.
At the Va auto show on Saturday,it was so many people around the Navigator,MKZ and MKX it was hard to get a good picture.It was so many different families trying to get in the navi one fam after the other but I finally got in.The MKZ and MKX had lots of people around them at least in there 40's to 50's.Im 15 and Lincoln is my favorite car company so you know I had to check them all out.That might sound funny but its true I love lincolns.
I really like where Lincoln is going with the MKZ, but they are not quite there yet. When I sit down and go over what the MKZ has to offer I get so close to pulling the trigger. Then I look at a car like my friend's Camry, which on most counts is not in the same league. However, with the Camry, you get a more powerful engine, more rear seat legroom, push button start, bluetooth and voice-activated navigation. True, you lose out on all-wheel drive, with a slightly larger trunk and those nice cooled seats, but seriously, if Mazda can put all these things into the CX-7 and CX-9 why can't Lincoln put these in the MKX and MKZ? I won't even go into everything that Lexus, Acura and Infiniti are offering in cars in the same price range.
For a car that is going to set me back roughly 36-37K loaded up I expect more. Its not like these are new advances, especially when they have already found their way onto the Camry. Also, how could Ford come to the dance with a 3.5 that only makes 263hp, when Toyota/Lexus, Nissan/Infiniti, and Honda/Acura bring out 3.5's around 270 with some pushing 300hp. They knew what they were up against and still held back so that they could either keep costs down or have room to bump the specs next year. I would think when you are coming from as far back as they are you would let it all hang out and go for broke (pardon the pun). How much time do they think people will give them? When they say the 2008 MKZ has 20 more hp, and some of these options how many people do you think will be swayed, versus the number of 2007 owners who will be pissed.
It seems like Lincoln is doing the same thing now that they did with the LS, offer more room and power (though not really with the MKZ) than similarly priced cars yet hold back on the options that people who purchase these cars really look for to help keep the price down. Why not do what Lexus did and really offer more for less to get people behind the wheel and then gradually bring up the price when you have a strong following? Is Lincoln just too proud for this? I'm afraid that they will put all these goodies into the MKS, to differentiate it from the MKZ, and then try to charge 50K plus for one. I just don't see people, at least the ones I know, choosing a Lincoln over the other cars in that price range right now.
The bottom line is that my father worked his way up from Mercury's to Lincolns over a 30 year period, but even he traded his 8th towncar for a Jag XJ-8L last year. I would love to give my business back to Lincoln, but they will have to earn it. I just don't see the effort right now, unless this really is the best they can do. Wouldn't that be a sad tale.
Does anyone know where I can buy some performance parts for my MKZ, exhaust, cold air intake. I see Magnaflow is creating a new exhaust for the MKX, I love my car but the AWD needs a good 10-15 HP to surive freeway traffic
As Lou Dobb said on CNN, I would rather send money to Mexico and have them build stuff for us than to have a communist country swore to destroy us getting the investment! Long live Lincoln and North America!
Japan and Germany have sworn to destroy us? :P And are those our choices? China and Mexico?
I hope Lincoln survives, but it needs more than you-rah-rah and a thinly disguised Fusion to do it. Let's see how the MKS is (and does) and whether they can get a modern RWD sedan on board soon.
Mexico may not be communist but they are slowly destroying us and we are happily paying them for it. I haven't totally bought in to this globalization thing; I was simply reminding you that the MKZ/Fusion/Milan are made in Mexico. For that reason alone, they should be cheaper than they are.
Hi folks. I've been a happy camper with my MKZ ... until this morning. I was on an interstate, no traffic -- and before you ask, under no bridge or overpass. Suddenly a sound like a VERY LARGE fluorescent light blowing out. We looked around, could find nothing amiss ... until we looked up. The moonroof was completely and very evenly shattered -- still intact, but shattered. It continued making cracking noises (sounded like a glacier calving?) even after we got it home and parked it.
A closer look at the moonroof revealed that in addition to cracks that left the whole moonroof in half-in by half-inch (roughly)little tidbits, there were six or eight deep cracks running left to right and front to back as well, that left the moonroof slightly more bowed upward than it had been. Now the moonroof looks like one of those back windows in a car that had been shattered. Absolutely no marks of anything hitting it or anywhere else on the car. Sunroof was in the open/vent position (rear end open, front closed) when it happened.
So ... now I'm looking forward to "discussions" with the dealer tomorrow as to whether this is a warranty issue. I've checked the Fusion/Milan website for any examples of this, could find none. Anyone have any theories about the cause; anyone else experienced this?
The SRX had (has?) the same problem. With glass roofs this big, i was very skeptical at first but thought that these companies have to do their research right? Wrong.
The solution is to redesign the roof, or just not make such a big one.
Which once again points out how confusing the "MK" naming system is...even more so than those companies who at least put the distinguishing letters at the beginning of the name.
Well it is about 20 degrees above the norm here in the DC area so time to try my air conditioning seats out. Well just like I heard you can actually turn the air conditioner off when you have these babies on. The almost give you a back freeze. I am going to really enjoy this feature!
Hi, this is Al, the person who posted about his exploding moonroof. You're right, that my MKZ(read that Zephyr, no matter what Ford wants us to say) has a standard sized moonroof. But like the other writer I was starting to get all the MK's confused. Whatever happened to those old fashioned thingies called NAMES? I think they're going to these letters games because it's easier to support one brand name than a brand name with innumerable sub-brand names. Acura and the long-lamented Legend is a case in point.
Mild update -- dealer has the car, said it was the first moonroof he has seen like this, suggested a pebble may have hit it hours, days, or weeks earlier and it took this long for the glass to fail. Hmmm ...
It's being repaired; we'll see if it is deemed warranty work. By the way, it is an 07, has about 4,800 miles on it.
Hi, seems to me that something might have hit it at some point. Of course if others get reported than there might be an issue. Glad you guys are safe, that would have freaked me out if it happen while I was driving. I have about 3k on my MKZ and so far not one problem or issue.
Never realized how nice the sound system was in the car until the other day when I got back (finally) on my treadmill. I put my stereo head phones all and suddenly they sounded cheap compared to what I was listening to in my MKZ. Wow, what a difference. Previously I thought my head phones sounded great! There were areas in the music where I could not hear certain instruments that were loud and clear in the car. I guess now I am spoiled!
Wow. Ford, Lincoln-Mercury, Jaguar, Volvo and Land Rover sales are all down. Despite a few bright spots, the sales mix is not good. Fusion is edging closer to where it should be in sales (never mind the conservative goals Ford set for it), Explorer sales have truly tanked for this iconic vehicle (and Ford's neglect of it is consistent with their pattern), Expedition is doing even worse, Montego sales are dismal, and they may as well pull the plug on the Mountaineer. Even the touted increase in MKZ sales is not a real bright spot, because it seems to say that no matter what they do, this car will never sell 50,000 units a year.
And what a solution Ford is pursuing...let's try to make a profit with less volume. Good luck. Can you imagine Toyota deciding to sell fewer vehicles as a response to lost market share??
Sales show that people don't want the Mark LT and Montego and 500 and Grand Marquis and Expedition and other models in the kind of numbers that make these models real contenders. Once again I am left thinking how could a company that was on top of its game a few short years ago allow such incompetent decision-makers to call the shots?
Interesting and fair opinion. No surprises, it is an average purchase. In my mind I justify the 35k for a car that has all of the features I want. It is way better than the 30k I spent in 2000 for a Chyrsler 300m. I will be watching Lincoln to see where they are taking this model. If they (or any Ford div) brings out a decent Hybrid I will jump on that (after its 2nd model year) car. Here we go again with the gas prices!
Just leased an MKZ with everything and have noted that there is no lock on the glove box so, no way to hide/protect valuables when you send your car through the car wash or parking valet. There's also no way to secure the trunk from a valet...no "valet" key. This is an issue for those of us who carry laptops, work files, etc.
Yes, and lack of those things is just cheap. If Ford starts with a Fusion and then adds a few styling changes and gizmos, it is no wonder the MKZ is not taken very seriously. Still, if Ford was where it should be in design and execution, even the Fusion would offer a locking glove box, valet key, and a hood with gas struts (rather than than tacky prop rod...there, I slipped it in again!).
No locking glove box and no valet key on the MKZ? That seems like such a basic thing to have in a car. I'm sure the times I've actually locked my glove box or locked the trunk from valet access can be counted on one hand, so I never really looked for them on the MKZ when I've looked at the car, just assuming they're there. However infrequently I use them, the omission would give me pause and make me wonder where else they've cut costs. It sends a bad message.
Does anyone know if the MKZ has a cabin air filter? I noticed that the Acura TL and the Lexus ES both have a micro- or pollen dust filter. Does the MKZ? It's exactly things like this that separate the runners from the also rans.
Again, that is beside the point. It's a luxury ride, and so skimping on features just because they might be seldom used is not appropriate to the product. I can drive thousands of miles and never once engage the ABS. But when the situation unexpectedly arises, I want that feature to be there.
But this isn't a functionality issue. The prop rod functions just fine. It's just the impression that it gives some folks just like the lack of a glovebox lock a light under the hood.
Personally, I don't mind the proprod at all. But I want Ford to stop giving the Ford bashers valid reasons to berate their products based on lack of features or cheap stuff. Witness the lack of the 3.5L in the Zephyr and lack of stability control (which still isn't available) and no manumatic shifter.
At least they seem to have gotten the quality problems behind them and have figured out how to make and sell cars without fleet dumping or huge incentives. And the Flex gives me hope that Ford is beginning to address the issues above.
Unless they have some other technology that performs the same function as a cabin filter without needing a replaceable cabin filter, this is really getting ridiculous now.
That is not even a "luxury car" feature either since even cars like the Ford Taurus had that in the 1990s. Many other features the MKZ lack are available on lower end family sedans. Stability control is one of the most glaring in 2007. A hood prop? I don't repair my own car, but I occasionally open the hood to check fluid levels. A hood prop would be surprising and disappointing even in a upper trim V6 Fusion and unacceptable if I had spent the extra money for a MKZ. What next, power windows for the front only (like the Neon used to have) because rear windows are seldom used?
The lack of stability control is due to the decision to use 3 channel ABS instead of 4.
I had a cabin air filter for 6 years in my 2000 LS. I've had my fusion without one for 1.5 years. I can't tell any difference whatsoever. Again - it's nice for advertising and paper comparisons but in the real world it's not missed.
I agree, a cabin filter, who will even miss or notice it was there. I guess you can keep turning the pages until you find yet another reason why you cannot purchase American cars. Some of these concerns are getting to be ridiculous! I guess next we will be comparing tire thread depth!
I agree that after a certain point, asking about this or that feature becomes a straw-man argument: To be a great car, you gotta have what Brand X has; the MKZ doesn't have Brand X has; therefore, the MKZ must be an inferior car.
On the other hand, a car is an appliance and, in the $35K range, a very expensive appliance. Anyone who spends $35K on an appliance is entitled to fettish over features. If two appliances both function roughly the same but one of them has an added feature that is useful or attractive and the other other one doesn't, the person is wise to choose the one with the added feature. The price category especially sets up the expectation that features across brands would be the same and that one brand has the additional feature of X, Y, or Z.
And by the way, a cabin filter, those seemingly small, is important to me as an allergy sufferer. I just had the filter changed on my Honda Odyssey, and it was filthy. To think of all that crud in the cabin is enough to make a believer of anyone.
3-chanel ABS? I think even cave-men had 3 chanel ABS!
Otherwise though, the MKZ is notthat bad. I think theprice is very attractive. You cannot get a loaded BMW, Mercedes, and soon even Cadillac for that price.
I think 35K is appropriate for an entry level lux car, loaded. Today only three companies i know really deliver: Acura, Infiniti, and Lincoln.
When it comes time for meto buy, i do not think that even the 08 CTS, will all its amazing features, will be as attractive at 45K as the MKS at 35K.
However, I do think that adding 10K to the price is worth it to keep jobs in the US, since the CTS is still made here.
Its a tough call, and I know many people are crunching the numbers as we speak.
If Lincoln wants to market a car to compete with the Infinity G, Acura TL, Lexus ES, Audi A4--a car in the $35K price range--then they should either differentiate it more from the non-luxury mid-size on which it is based (like how for example the Accord and TL are differentiated), or they should cut the price by 3 to 4K and undercut everyone else. Until they can get a real contender into that field, the MKZ should be the bargain out there in entry level luxury. The days are gone when you can take the same body panels, greenouse and mount points, slap on different front and rear styling, tart up the interior, and get the respect of the brands (like Cadillac) that now take the time to see that their cars are really special.
But, but gas hood struts would add .72 Kg to the weight which would shave off .0001 in the quarter mile! Where are your priorities? :-)
You know, I've owned performance cars, a '68 mustang 350, a '85 Toyota MR2 and an '98 Eclipse GSX turbo all wheel drive.
I've had my fun, and have come to the dowdy old opinion that cars are {gasp} a depreciating asset that the less spent on them the better. So low price, low depreciation, low insurance costs and low repair bills matter.
Second priority is that they be safe. 42,000 people die on the roads each year and I want a car that can actively avoid accidents and protect you if it happens anyway.
And if you are going to pay more, why not make the trip pleasant than buy capability that only makes a difference at illegal speeds?
I've got a plane, when I feel the need for speed. I've done 220mph in it. It is a blast, and 100% legal.
So, in short, this high reliability, low cost, comfortable lincoln is high on my shopping list. I'd love to have a Beemer, (328xi) but at @8k more with the same options, less horsepower and much worse reliability, my heart is having a hard time convincing my head.
If you are going to ignore the lack of stability control, then safety is not a high priority for you. " ...actively avoid accidents?"
I already have a car without stability control and I'm not going to spend $35K for another car that still doesn't have it. I already have a car with hood struts and a cabin air filter and I'm not going to spend $35,000 for a replacement car that actually loses features I have now.
Yes, Lincons suck. I will never buy an American car again. I want a car that drives me around and filters the air I breath. I also want all of the profits to go to folks who care less about the folks who live here. In fact I want them to send folks here to our colleges!
Oh, geez, how about some less sarcastic discourse? If you love your Lincolns and think they already have everything they need, that's great. What's the problem? You need everyone to agree with you too?
People more or less buy what meets their needs and suits their tastes. You may love the MKZ, but maybe even you might think the Town Car is too dated for your taste. Even so, there are still people who buy them. Just not as many as would if the car was updated amd truly competitive with the state of the art in large and stately sedans.
Lincoln will truly make their mark again if they can only get back to marketing more state of the art, uniquely styled cars with really great prices. I remember "Unique in all the World." Back then nothing else looked like Lincoln, and Lincoln looked like nothing else.
My opinion may be a niche one, but I believe that Lincolns, especially the Town Car, can be quite an automobile to behold (still) if it's pimped out, IMHO. Take a TC and have it painted a VIBRANT metallic color...make some alterations to the inner audio system, giving it a stronger output (including a powerful subwoofer), and I don't mean something to BOOM the world with as I cruise, some touches here and there and I DO believe that I can convert what is conceived to be (by some) a "grandpa/grandma" vehicle into a distinct and modern machine worthy of any youngblood's (or youngbloods at heart) ticket to ride. U dig? :shades: So I don't knock Lincolns, whatsoever!
Lincoln will come back, and supercede its former glory, in time I'm sure.
Comments
I was in the Lincoln booth at the Orlando Auto show and the traffic was in the mid-range. The exotic autos had most of the traffic with folks looking at cars they could not afford. The Ford/Mercury/Lincoln booths were laid out pretty nice. My major complaint is that they had drab green hybrids off to the side of the booth.
On the positive side just thank God we were not the Buick booth. It was dead as a graveyard!
At the Baltimore show, I saw an equal number of people stopping to look at the MKZ as the Acura TL.
For a car that is going to set me back roughly 36-37K loaded up I expect more. Its not like these are new advances, especially when they have already found their way onto the Camry. Also, how could Ford come to the dance with a 3.5 that only makes 263hp, when Toyota/Lexus, Nissan/Infiniti, and Honda/Acura bring out 3.5's around 270 with some pushing 300hp. They knew what they were up against and still held back so that they could either keep costs down or have room to bump the specs next year. I would think when you are coming from as far back as they are you would let it all hang out and go for broke (pardon the pun). How much time do they think people will give them? When they say the 2008 MKZ has 20 more hp, and some of these options how many people do you think will be swayed, versus the number of 2007 owners who will be pissed.
It seems like Lincoln is doing the same thing now that they did with the LS, offer more room and power (though not really with the MKZ) than similarly priced cars yet hold back on the options that people who purchase these cars really look for to help keep the price down. Why not do what Lexus did and really offer more for less to get people behind the wheel and then gradually bring up the price when you have a strong following? Is Lincoln just too proud for this? I'm afraid that they will put all these goodies into the MKS, to differentiate it from the MKZ, and then try to charge 50K plus for one. I just don't see people, at least the ones I know, choosing a Lincoln over the other cars in that price range right now.
The bottom line is that my father worked his way up from Mercury's to Lincolns over a 30 year period, but even he traded his 8th towncar for a Jag XJ-8L last year. I would love to give my business back to Lincoln, but they will have to earn it. I just don't see the effort right now, unless this really is the best they can do. Wouldn't that be a sad tale.
You do realize the MKZ is made in Mexico, right? For 5k less, i'd buy one nonetheless...
I hope Lincoln survives, but it needs more than you-rah-rah and a thinly disguised Fusion to do it. Let's see how the MKS is (and does) and whether they can get a modern RWD sedan on board soon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XfnYnxv7zY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puRLniBVNBE
A closer look at the moonroof revealed that in addition to cracks that left the whole moonroof in half-in by half-inch (roughly)little tidbits, there were six or eight deep cracks running left to right and front to back as well, that left the moonroof slightly more bowed upward than it had been. Now the moonroof looks like one of those back windows in a car that had been shattered. Absolutely no marks of anything hitting it or anywhere else on the car. Sunroof was in the open/vent position (rear end open, front closed) when it happened.
So ... now I'm looking forward to "discussions" with the dealer tomorrow as to whether this is a warranty issue. I've checked the Fusion/Milan website for any examples of this, could find none. Anyone have any theories about the cause; anyone else experienced this?
Thanks
The solution is to redesign the roof, or just not make such a big one.
Mild update -- dealer has the car, said it was the first moonroof he has seen like this, suggested a pebble may have hit it hours, days, or weeks earlier and it took this long for the glass to fail. Hmmm ...
It's being repaired; we'll see if it is deemed warranty work. By the way, it is an 07, has about 4,800 miles on it.
I guess driving around the corn field with and stealing
scarecrow clothing does not convey the message!
And what a solution Ford is pursuing...let's try to make a profit with less volume. Good luck. Can you imagine Toyota deciding to sell fewer vehicles as a response to lost market share??
Sales show that people don't want the Mark LT and Montego and 500 and Grand Marquis and Expedition and other models in the kind of numbers that make these models real contenders. Once again I am left thinking how could a company that was on top of its game a few short years ago allow such incompetent decision-makers to call the shots?
The tacky prop rod for the hood is rather high-tech, though, don't you think?
Personally, I don't mind the proprod at all. But I want Ford to stop giving the Ford bashers valid reasons to berate their products based on lack of features or cheap stuff. Witness the lack of the 3.5L in the Zephyr and lack of stability control (which still isn't available) and no manumatic shifter.
At least they seem to have gotten the quality problems behind them and have figured out how to make and sell cars without fleet dumping or huge incentives. And the Flex gives me hope that Ford is beginning to address the issues above.
That is not even a "luxury car" feature either since even cars like the Ford Taurus had that in the 1990s.
Many other features the MKZ lack are available on lower end family sedans. Stability control is one of the most glaring in 2007.
A hood prop? I don't repair my own car, but I occasionally open the hood to check fluid levels. A hood prop would be surprising and disappointing even in a upper trim V6 Fusion and unacceptable if I had spent the extra money for a MKZ.
What next, power windows for the front only (like the Neon used to have) because rear windows are seldom used?
I had a cabin air filter for 6 years in my 2000 LS. I've had my fusion without one for 1.5 years. I can't tell any difference whatsoever. Again - it's nice for advertising and paper comparisons but in the real world it's not missed.
On the other hand, a car is an appliance and, in the $35K range, a very expensive appliance. Anyone who spends $35K on an appliance is entitled to fettish over features. If two appliances both function roughly the same but one of them has an added feature that is useful or attractive and the other other one doesn't, the person is wise to choose the one with the added feature. The price category especially sets up the expectation that features across brands would be the same and that one brand has the additional feature of X, Y, or Z.
And by the way, a cabin filter, those seemingly small, is important to me as an allergy sufferer. I just had the filter changed on my Honda Odyssey, and it was filthy. To think of all that crud in the cabin is enough to make a believer of anyone.
How do you cool the air when you are walking around outside without A/C?
It's nice to have. The MKZ is not an economy car where you pinch pennies.
3-chanel ABS? I think even cave-men had 3 chanel ABS!
Otherwise though, the MKZ is notthat bad. I think theprice is very attractive. You cannot get a loaded BMW, Mercedes, and soon even Cadillac for that price.
I think 35K is appropriate for an entry level lux car, loaded. Today only three companies i know really deliver: Acura, Infiniti, and Lincoln.
When it comes time for meto buy, i do not think that even the 08 CTS, will all its amazing features, will be as attractive at 45K as the MKS at 35K.
However, I do think that adding 10K to the price is worth it to keep jobs in the US, since the CTS is still made here.
Its a tough call, and I know many people are crunching the numbers as we speak.
You know, I've owned performance cars, a '68 mustang 350, a '85 Toyota MR2 and an '98 Eclipse GSX turbo all wheel drive.
I've had my fun, and have come to the dowdy old opinion that cars are {gasp} a depreciating asset that the less spent on them the better. So low price, low depreciation, low insurance costs and low repair bills matter.
Second priority is that they be safe. 42,000 people die on the roads each year and I want a car that can actively avoid accidents and protect you if it happens anyway.
And if you are going to pay more, why not make the trip pleasant than buy capability that only makes a difference at illegal speeds?
I've got a plane, when I feel the need for speed. I've done 220mph in it. It is a blast, and 100% legal.
So, in short, this high reliability, low cost, comfortable lincoln is high on my shopping list. I'd love to have a Beemer, (328xi) but at @8k more with the same options, less horsepower and much worse reliability, my heart is having a hard time convincing my head.
I already have a car without stability control and I'm not going to spend $35K for another car that still doesn't have it.
I already have a car with hood struts and a cabin air filter and I'm not going to spend $35,000 for a replacement car that actually loses features I have now.
People more or less buy what meets their needs and suits their tastes. You may love the MKZ, but maybe even you might think the Town Car is too dated for your taste. Even so, there are still people who buy them. Just not as many as would if the car was updated amd truly competitive with the state of the art in large and stately sedans.
Lincoln will truly make their mark again if they can only get back to marketing more state of the art, uniquely styled cars with really great prices. I remember "Unique in all the World." Back then nothing else looked like Lincoln, and Lincoln looked like nothing else.
My opinion may be a niche one, but I believe that Lincolns, especially the Town Car, can be quite an automobile to behold (still) if it's pimped out, IMHO. Take a TC and have it painted a VIBRANT metallic color...make some alterations to the inner audio system, giving it a stronger output (including a powerful subwoofer), and I don't mean something to BOOM the world with as I cruise, some touches here and there and I DO believe that I can convert what is conceived to be (by some) a "grandpa/grandma" vehicle into a distinct and modern machine worthy of any youngblood's (or youngbloods at heart) ticket to ride. U dig? :shades: So I don't knock Lincolns, whatsoever!
Lincoln will come back, and supercede its former glory, in time I'm sure.
Cheers...
Peace<-