I spotted a NEW (insert make/model) today!

ateixeira

Can you still get a manual? With the NA model (to avoid HPFP issues)? That would be my powertrain pick.

kyfdx

No USA model manuals, of either type, I don't think..

They say the new 240 HP version is faster than the old 255 HP model.... It has a new 8-speed automatic vs. the old 6-speed auto (the old tranny programming is a sore spot with many X3 owners..).

ateixeira

Bummer. At least the auto has plenty of ratios.

My issue with the old one was the rock-hard ride.

qbrozen

That's what they say. I believe the projected 0-60 of the NA model is 6.7 secs. Darned impressive for a 4k lb vehicle with a supposed 240 hp.

Re: Countryman. That is the first time I've ever heard "eww" when referring to the looks of a mini.

kyfdx

My wife can't stand them.. I love them..

A MINI was in my top five choices when I was looking for the last car... I think she was praying that I wouldn't get one...

I thought looking like a MINI was one of the best parts!

iwant12

Spotted a new Elantra while filling up today. Not a bad looking car, IMHO. Not too over the top in styling.

ateixeira

Expect to see a lot of those given all models get 40mpg highway and gas keeps creeping up (up another 5 cents today near me).

ateixeira

Not new, but I saw our old 2002 Subaru Legacy L, which we sold about 2 years ago.

I was happy to see she looked great, clean and no dents.

Ever happen to anyone else, i.e. seeing a car you sold on the road?

anythngbutgm

I've seen my wifes old 2002 Mercedes C230 hatch a few times since she traded it. I can spot it because the dealer she bought it from has a big ol dealer sticker that sits inside the lower corner of the window and was probably a huge PAI to remove so they left it.

Still looks great, no dents and well maintained. :shades:

ateixeira

A while back I saw my 98 Forester on the road, it is easy to spot because it had custom wheels (so did the 02 Legacy).

It was FILTHY!

Buyer has no shame at all. I was so sad....

qbrozen

I have to wonder why Hyundai has so many damned different model sedans. I mean, do they really need 4? (accent, elantra, sonata, and genesis.)

Does any other manufacturer offer that many? Honda = 2, I believe. Toyota = 3, Mazda = 2, BMW = 3, Benz = 3, Acura = 3 .....

They should probably at least eliminate the Accent sedan. I thought the new sonata would eliminate the elantra ... guess I was wrong.

texases

Well, Toyota has Yaris/Corolla/Camry/Avalon, right?

qbrozen

I always forget about the Avalon.

BUT, ya know what? I even left off a couple of Hyundais! The also have the Equus and the Azera!! Good grief.

And to add to the silliness, the Accent is only a grand less than the Elantra.

texases

You're right, that's a lot. But I might claim the Genesis and Equus would be in their Lexus/Inifinti lines, if they had one. Instead of the current Kia/Hyundai setup, they need a Hyundai/premium brand split. What's the real difference between a Kia and a Hyundai, anyway?

qbrozen

I really have no idea. I do know, though, cause I was just looking yesterday, that the lower-end Kia SUV (I think its the Sorento??) has 3 rows, while you have to step all the way up to the top Hyundai to get that. Something like $8k difference. I don't know what that means, or why they did it, but there ya go. I also think the Kia SUVs are better looking than the Hyundais at the moment.

ateixeira

Hyundai was supposed to move upscale, while Kia was the sportier brand. That move has just begun so we don't really see the result of that strategy yet, except perhaps the Genesis and Equus.

I don't think they need an Accent sedan, I imagine the hatch sells better anyway. But it is B segment, and the Elantra is C segment. The Sonata is nearly a full-sizer.

The most redundant sedan is probably the Azera. The Genesis sort of fills the niche that the Azera was supposed to fill anyway.

The Equus is a flagship and IMHO plenty differentiated - check out the rear recliners.

fintail

Well technically in 4 door cars, MB has the A/B/C/E/S/CLS, just not all in this market. BMW and Audi also have more, just not for here.

That being said, nobody would mourn the loss of the Accent sedan...I can't imagine why anyone would buy one.

fintail

Equus also has the weirdest/dumpiest KDM styling :shades:

Rear recliners? Boring, W126 had that 30 years ago.

texases

"Hyundai was supposed to move upscale, while Kia was the sportier brand."

Well, I'd like to be 30 again, but that ain't happening, either! I do like many recent Kias from the styling dept., but there seems to be about 90% overlap with the corresponding Hyundai models.

stever

Currently Hyundai Motor Company owns less than 40% of Kia. Still controls it with that percentage. I don't see much info about platform sharing and the like off-hand - anyone know? I think Kia was really hoping that Ford would bail them out when they went banko in 1997 but the Korean government made them go with Hyundai.

Kia seems to be focusing on European sales more than Hyundai. They hired German Peter Schreyer of Audi fame as Chief Design Officer four or five years ago.

ateixeira

A- and B- are 5 doors, though, and don't even resemble sedans.

Did you see this sweet AMG-powered B-class?

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/01/03/video-mercedes-benz-b55-does-the-burnout-weve- -been-waiting-for/

Vid's kinda lame but that would be one fun family car.

ateixeira

Rear recliners?

You're taking my comments out of context.

The point is the Equus is distinct from the Genesis.

The current Equus is an older KDM design. I'm betting the next generation will look (and be) a lot better.

ateixeira

Several cars share platforms, off the top of my head:

Sonata/Optima
Tucson/Sportage

To be fair they look nothing like one another.

stever

Thanks Juice. I still have this nagging feeling that Kia and Hyundai hate each other.

ateixeira

Sibling rivals?

fintail

Yes, it is "distinct" alright.

Could it look anything but better? I see H kind of has an unintended strategy..."wait til the next one"...not very smooth.

fintail

Heh...well, 4 door Accent is barely a sedan either :shades:

I'm surprised the B hasn't been brought to the US...they sell in Canada.

AMG or diesel is the only way I'd go.

ateixeira

I'm looking forward to seeing the fluidic-sculpture-ized next-gen Equus. And yes, I know you're not a fan.

Kia has Schreyer (from Audi) so they have nowhere to go but up.

ateixeira

They sell the B-class in Brazil, come to think of it the A-class as well.

I say bring the B, ditch the A.

The R-class is so expensive Mercedes doesn't really have an affordable people mover. The GLK is too small, and I'm not sure I'd call the ML affordable.

fintail

I envision it looking like an Infiniti M...which is no beauty queen in my eyes either.

I'll hold that the Optima looks better than the Sonata.

fintail

We don't need the A here, and I can't imagine it coming. But the B could work, especially with some kind of atypical (diesel or hybrid, or both) powertrain.

I am surprised the R is still around, but at least it exists as a diesel.

stickguy

doesn't every maker pretty much have this now? Ford, Nissan, even BMW.

a few might not be straight 4 door sedans, but they are distinct sizes and market segments.

Honda does too if you count the fit, and Acura!

qbrozen

That's just it, though, the Fit is distinguised by being a hatchback. They aren't canibalizing their own sales with it. Several manufacturers have specialty models like that. Like BMW's 1 series and Audi's A3 (just to name a couple). So if the Accent was hatchback only, it would make more sense.

As for the luxo brands, they are just that, more luxo. So the TL and Accord aren't different sizes... just outfitted differently. I don't think 4 lines of sedans is all that common. And now that we've added it up, Hyundai even has 6.

stickguy

Ford: Fiesta, focus, fusion, taurus. And formerly Crown Vic.
nissan: Venza, Sentra (that seems really cannibalistic), altima, maxima
Hyundai, covered. Will be interesting to see how accent hurts elantra.
Toyota: they got 4.

qbrozen

Right. But I believe (without looking at ALL of them) that there are far more manufacturers with less than 4. And even if we set 4 as the far end of the bell curve, Hyundai is still an anomaly with 6.

stickguy

chevy should be on the list too.

And there really aren't that many more "big" makers that have that broad of a product line.

Hyundai though is unique in that they don't have a premium line. If you take Ford and add lincoln, they have more.Toyota/Lexus, etc.

I don't see the problem, as long as they are distinct in some way (size/purpose/cost/market niche)

Accent/elantra (like Nissan with Venza/Sentra) are the only ones that seem to overlap enough to maybe be redundant. But the accent is smaller/strippier/cheaper, but i guess the same thing could be accomplished with a strippo (smaller engine) Elantra.

Equis is off by itself trying to be a Lexus lS. and like Lexus with the GS and ES, the Azerra (which probably goes away soon) and Genny are aimed at different buyers, although they are roughly the same size and price (V6 at least).

Interesting, my friend that works for Hyundai corporate (and the reason I always saw the new stuff months before everyone else!) really liked the Azerra better than the Genny. Guess he liked the smooth, plushy ride.

ateixeira

Also, the Azera follows the new design language.

With the Genesis, Hyundai was still gun shy, uncommitted.

fezo

Count me in with the folks who think the new Optima looks better than the Sonata - and I like the Sonata.

Four word answer to why they still make 4 door Accents - Enterprise Rent A Car. Had one a year or so ago. Stripper that you could probably buy with pocket change. Even had window cranks.

stickguy

price is big. even though there is not that much real-world difference in size or performance, having the Accent lets Hyundai have a super cheap strippo model, without have to decontent the heck out of the Elantra. Plus, they can start with a better, more expensive platform if they want to.

I also like the Optima better. just looks better to me, and I am not a fan of the ultra swoopy styling on a family car. I don't care for the MB CLS either. Must be my Volvo 144 roots showing.

ateixeira

I actually prefer the styling on the Sonata, but the Optima's options packages let me configure one much more to my liking. They don't package the tech stuff with pricey models like Hyundai does.

I'd like to see a manual in the 2.0T models, though.

fezo

Must be my Volvo 144 roots showing.

I had forgotten that! Mine was a 142 - not because I wanted two doors but when you buy used you give up some choices.

I want to see the new Elantra up close. I'm enough of a cheapskate to really like that.

ateixeira

At 40mpg you would be driving for a couple of weeks between fill-ups, too.

How big is its gas tank?

I care more about range than actual mileage, so if the 33mpg Optima turbo has a big enough tank to even things out, I'd still, well, Opt for the Optima.

stickguy

I beleive the optima is 16 or 16 gals. About the same as everything else in the class (my 2005 accord is 16.9 IIRC).

the Elantra they downsized with the new model to ~12gals. Too small IMO, since if you are doing more local stuff and dropping the miles down to say 30, your range gets cut pretty low (I won't go below 1/4 of a tank if I can help it, and usually try to fill at around 1/3, so that only leaves 8-9 gals to use).

nothing can be as bad as my Opel was. partly do to a screwed up FI system, I only got about 20 (on the highway!) with that POC. and it only had a 10 gal tank, so you didn't go very far on a trip without stopping

fezo

Dang! That's one short cruising range!

I wonder if Hyundai will redo the Elantra Touring any time soon. Wagons are hard to come by anymore.

stickguy

I do like the touring. I seem to recall hearing that they will be coming out with a replacement shortly (maybe in a year, if that long) for it based on the new platform (the current model was not based on the outgoing Elantra we got, rather on some Euro version).

Hopefully they keep the relatively boxy rear, instead of making it all swoopy and low slung. Wouldn't want my dod to bump his head (at this point, he is the primary reaosn I want a wagon, since this would be too small to serve as the family truckster).

ateixeira

I *hate* when they downsize the gas tanks for fuel efficient models. The increase range would be the best part!

I think the Camry has a fairly big gas tank, less so on the hybrid. The Altima also. A 2.5 CVT Altima can go quite a ways on a single gas tank.

tifighter

It will be updated. Into a 5-door hatch, not wagon...

qbrozen

I couldn't agree more. Just about every car I've had has provided a range under 400 miles, regardless of its efficiency, thanks to the tank size.

Only standouts were my 300Z and S70. Both got mileage in the mid 20s with an 18-19 gallon tank, so 450-500 was more common with those.

stever

I will be updated. Into a 5-door hatch, not wagon

That's too bad (unless maybe it's a big hatch). They'll probably de-content it too.

ateixeira

Funny thing is it's called i30 in other markets, so it's not even really an Elantra wagon.

They may do a bigger touring based on the Sonata - hopefully it comes here with DI and a 6 speed manual.