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Luxury Performance Sedans



  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,926
    Someone on the M board pointed out that the M's doors are made of magnesium so they're strong as hell I'm sure, but just not hefty feeling when closed.

    I think you're referring to me. It was the GS board because they were complaining that the M's doors felt "tinny." I had to explain to them that the doors are made of magnesium to save weight and that's why they don't feel so hefty.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    I have no information and -- gulp -- no opinion PERIOD. Anything I would say about this/these would be a total made up answer. Much as I would enjoy the discussion, I have to say nothing on the subject.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    . . .Msg #1590.
  • gandhim3gandhim3 Posts: 191
    I had to explain to them that the doors are made of magnesium to save weight and that's why they don't feel so hefty.

    Are you sure the doors are made of magnesium. I thought the doors, hood, and trunk were made of aluminum to reduce weight, not magnesium. Isn't magnesium more prone to corrosion - not a good idea to use this metal in an area exposed to the elements :confuse:

    Edit - just checked the M brochure, and on page in the back where they list standard features, they specifically say "Aluminum doors, hood and trunk"
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,926
    That's weird. I have an M brochure that says they're made of magnesium. Maybe the skin is aluminum and the frame is magnesium or vice versa. :confuse:
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    March 2005 sales in the Luxury Sports Sedan class

    5 = 3,949
    E = 3,608
    GS = 3,209
    STS = 2,954
    M = 2,253
    A6 = 1,681
    RL = 1,376

    Not surprisingly, the biggest winners were the GS and the M.

    The E was the biggest loser, whose sales went down 27.4% from March 2004 (4,971 units). However, part of the reason for this may be because of cannibalization by the CLS, which sold 1759 units.

    Overall brand (March 2005 vs. March 2004):

    BMW = -11.0%
    MB = +1.9%
    Lexus = -1.9%
    Cadillac = +0.1%
    Infiniti = +5.3%
    Audi = -12.9%
    Acura = +3.6%
  • gandhim3gandhim3 Posts: 191
    Very doubtful that any car maker would use magnesium in the outer shell for a car. Not only does magnesium corrode easily compared to steel of aluminum, but also explosive when it comes in contact with flames. Cannot imagine a magnesium hood used when one has to worry about vehicle fires.

    May be you have a preliminary brochure, or one with a typo?
  • richcreamrichcream Posts: 205
    I took a cue from another post-er in here who was monitoring the inventories of local Infiniti dealerships via, and it looks like the dealerships may have just adjusted their numbers for April.

    Of the 4 dealers I've been checking, their collective inventories just dropped from 136 M's to 99 M's in stock overnight. I don't doubt that a good number of the 37 sold were signed in the last 1 or 2 days of March, but I wonder how these initial sales figures will effect the bottom lines on the M.
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    Considering how well the TL sold last year in March, the Acura overall 3.6% gain this year is excellent. What's going on with those Euros?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I'm not surprised either. The RL was out of the gate first, and got some attention, but as soon as the cearly superior GS and M hit, the RL was gone from the radar screen. Its all about GS vs. M now.
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    Numbers games are played and framers can do whatever they want. The old trite phrase "Figures lie and Liars figure" comes to mind. But I have nary a bone to pick with an Infiniti lover. It's a nice car. Can't imagine where all that steam comes from tho....must be a longtime lurker, fuming at the ears still seething after that drag race loss to an '87 Civic.
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    " Its all about GS vs. M now."

    jrock's numbers showed GS sales looking good at 3,209 for Mar. but if you look at Lexus overall brand sales being off about 2% are the GS sales going to be strong enough down the road to make a difference?
  • mariner7mariner7 Posts: 509
    The other Lexus sedans, LS/ES/IS, all had double digit % decreases. Makes you think whether GS is taking sales from them.

    G sedan had the best sales month, 4 years after its introduction, pretty amazing.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Well, the IS is only a few months from replacement, and the LS and ES will be replaced in '07. I think Lexus will be fine.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I think it may have been you, but they still don't have to sound or feel tinny when closed, was my point.

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Those sales numbers are very interesting. There is a lot of talk about the CLS taking E-Class sales on the German car boards eleswhere. Between the CLS and the fact that every other car in the class is newer the E will have a long hard year. In 2004 MB moved 58K Es, I doubt they'll hit 40K this year. Ouch. That 2007 model year facelift can't come soon enough. BMW dropped eleven percent and Lexus droped almost 2 percent while Mercedes increased by the exact same amount. Creepy. Sales are all over the map, really hard to make any definite conclusions about anything. Sales are basically free for all this year with so many different cars competiting. I guess BMW is down because of the pending arrivial of a new 3-Series. Overall I except it to be Lexus, BMW and Mercedes overall at years end. I think if the M and R-Classes take off MB can get darn close to BMW. After the 3-Series BMW doesn't have nearly as much on tap as Mercedes does as the year progresses. I don't see Cadillac keeping their #3 spot this year, the STS won't make the predictions - overpriced and too much competition imo.

  • untrueuntrue Posts: 18
    merc1, I agree, both the new M class and the R class look like winners to me. Kind of surprising that the base M class starts $3500 cheaper then the base M35x. I guess there's more competition in the SUV segment.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    In my opinion, M sales have a lot of upside. Reasons:

    1) The $65M nationwide advertising blitz starts today (04/01/05).

    2) All of the comparo wins can only help. Probably not much, but can't hurt.

    3) Quite a few people don't really know much about Infiniti. Everyone knows MB, BMW, and Lexus. As the brand's image improves with hits such as the G, FX, M, and QX, that can only improve traffic into showrooms, which will improve sales.

    4) The G35 sedan sales went from 35,765 in 2003, to 42,800 in 2004, and is on pace for 48,016 in 2005. It is possible that the M will have such an upward curve.

    Anyways, just speculation on my part.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    What are your thoughts on the new G class? Do you know when its due?
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    All true and very accurate if speculation can be that. You can't watch TV without seeing a "The New M" commercial.

    Another hit for Infiniti I'm sure. Infiniti is by far my favorite of the Japanese luxury brands. G35 Coupe, FX35/45 and M35/45 are all greatly admired by me. A very high Back in the day it was Acura, but every since the Legend went away they've fallen from view, though I do like the TL a little.

    Question: Are you familiar with the user id "sacguy"?

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Personally I don't like anything about it. The spy photos show what could be just any car company's SUV, nothing even close to deserving the "G" in the name. The current G is so legendary and most of all so different from %99 percent of the SUVs on the road today and that is the way I like it, but I'm told that I don't see the business side clearly so... I guess this new SUV that the real G will be replaced with is more mass-marketable and should sell a 1000 times better, but it won't be half the "truck" the current G is if what they're saying about it using the new ML/R-Class platform.

    It is supposed to debut at Detroit 2006 and go on sale about a year from now. It looks like a longer M-Class which it is. Not a true "G" in my opinion. Not at all.

    On some other boards they're hinting that Mercedes may keep the old G in production under its proper name G......wagen. I think they should keep the current G around and just continually refine it and call this new SUV something else. MLX was the rumor about a year ago, but we'll see.

  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    I don't remember a sacguy. Sound very vaguely familiar tho.
  • sacguysacguy Posts: 27
    Hi Merc1,
    What do you want to know?

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Oh there you are. Are you the same person on GCF?

  • sacguysacguy Posts: 27
    Hi Merc1,
    Yes, I am the same person. I actually look at GCF, Audiworld, MB forum and Edmunds - all using the same name - sacguy. I am just reading and sharing bits from all the forums and auto reviews!! I thought I was getting a new car this spring, but now I am just waiting, as my car is still a good one and under warranty for a year (2002 BMW 5 series). I was originally going to get an A6, then bounced to a MB E500 (actually put an order in , then cancelled due to all the reliability comments. Plus the car started to look a bit dated and too old for me, especially with all the new cars coming out. Now I am checking out the new Infiniti M, but my heart is still with the german cars. Will probably wait for a MB refresh on E annd other new models, before jumping in. All this reading can get you sooooo confused, but it is fun! :)
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Alrighty then, I figured as much. I noticed the same style of posting.

    Yes this class is red-hot right now and the E has the distinct honor of being one of the older cars in the class, even though it just came out for 2003! That said it seems to be holding its own so far. I was shocked to read where it topped the new 5-Series and A6. That is almost unheard of. It looks like the new Infiniti M is set to become the darling of the class, if not in sales at least in comparos. This is where the 5-Series used to reign supreme. The E's 2007 facelift can't come soon enough.

  • patrick3patrick3 Posts: 31
    Anybody surprised by the latest C&R $55K Sports Luxury Comparison? German car's continue to lag Japanese cars in very comparison I've seen to date. Big drop for BMW & Audi and a big surprise/showing for Acura. No doubt Infiniti M continues to lead the pack with another first place showing.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Automobile mag has a sport sedan comparo in their May issue, and the top 3 were, in order, 1. A6 4.2, 2. GS430, 3. E500....ahead of the M45 and 545i.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    Oh come off it. It's about time C&D stops the dumb price comparos and compares all V-6's or all V-8's
    I don't believe the M45 would have come out ahead of the 545 and they even hint of that in the review. Sure the M45 is a great value but to compare this car with a V-8 to a 530i with its weak 6 is rediculous. Motor Trend to its credit compared V-6 sports sedans and the M35 came in first.
  • patrick3patrick3 Posts: 31
    And if I remember correctly, the 530 came in 3rd or 4th place compared to the other V6's in the Motor Trend comparison with the M35 in first and the RL in second. Again, German cars are taking a backseat to the Japanese offerings.
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