yeah, it still uses the 4-speed auto, but I was referring to the manual. Now, it does appear to be a couple of hundred pounds heavier than the CRV - why, I wonder. Perhaps extra reinforcement to strengthen the side where there is no side pillar, but rather a suicide half door instead.
I have driven the 4WD, and I know the gearing keeps the engine revving, I am just a little surprised that mileage would drop so much. It's not like it needs 3500 rpm to do 60 in top gear.
edit...anon: I was VERY surprised to see all the stick shift 4WD Element EXs at my local dealer - they don't usually order a whole lot of stick shifts. They had the orangey red color, the lighter blue, the faded green color, and the silver, all in stick. I would be a lot more interested in buying an Element as a replacement for my truck if it had an AWD system that drives all four wheels all the time. As it is, the Element uses a system that is 100/0 FWD until the system detects slip.
I want to test drive the new V-6 MT Accord sedan. :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
oops, my goof...for some reason I was seeing "automatic". Must be a brain fart moment!
As for gearing, I just looked it up (I'm doing this stuff at autos.yahoo.com) and it looks like the Element with a manual uses a 4.77:1 axle, versus 4.44:1 for the automatic. The Accord manual uses a taller 4.39:1 axle. Automatic uses the same 4.44:1 axle as the Element.
Now, I don't know the individual gear ratios for the trannies, but going from a 4.39 axle to a 4.77 axle could account for close to 10% of the mileage penalty right there.
I think there's a lot of truth in that statement. I have long felt that one of the reasons certain brands (or models) are so successful is that they've been around for not years—but decades!
I'm convinced that one of the big failures of Detroit carmakers is that they give up too easily on model names. A car may be successful for a few years, and then after it slips in the marketplace, it's replaced with a new model with a different name. I think that's been a HUGE marketing mistake. It takes years to build brand/model image, and then to throw it all away every five or so years is just plain stupid.
The most successful models have been around for literally decades (Suburban, Accord, Civic, Corolla, E-Class, S-Class, F-Series, Corvette, etc.). The carmakers start with a clear image of what they want and stick with it through both good and bad times. Over the long haul it pays off big time.
that the domestics would dump a name is because sometimes they'd run two model concurrently. For example, the Celebrity came out in 1982, and would ultimately replace the Malibu. But they still ran the Malibu for 1982-83. They could've just dropped it after 1981, and then called the Celebrity "Malibu".
I don't know what their rationale was for using the Lumina name, though. The Lumina came out for 1990, and the only Celebrity left for 1990 was the wagon. Come to think of it, they overlapped the Impala and Lumina a bit, too. The Impala came out for 2000, but I think they built Luminas through 2001, mainly as fleet models.
And sometimes, when they'd get a good name, like "Cutlass", they'd run it into the ground. In the 80's they were fine when they just had the Cutlass Supreme. But then they had the Cutlass Ciera, and then came out with the Calais (previously a name used for the sporty bucket seat/console version of the Cutlass Supreme), which then became the Cutlas Calais. It just got TOO confusing, and left people wondering what a Cutlass was supposed to be!
Oh, Detroit's history is full of discarded great names, and all with great heritage: BelAir, Roadmaster, New Yorker, just to name a few.
As to Acura, yes they took a risk in replacing the model names. However, in this case I think they were correct, as their new naming is inline with their total branding of all their model lines.
Oh, I think they did have to do it (for unified brand marketing). The problem with the first RL was not the name, but the car. It was a dullmobile of the highest order. The RSX, on the other hand, was a fun car and didn't suffer one bit when they changed names.
I don't see why automakers see this urgent need to switch to an alphabet soup of totally forgettable letter combinations that are not only impossible to remember BUT ALSO overlap with other car brands (think LS, for one). What's so premium about giving a model a couple of letters for a name, instead of giving it a real name?
Some of Japan's model names of the past have been wonderfully evocative, and they still use them today in the home market. I wish they had kept them, and two names RIGHT AT THE TOP of that wish list would be Integra and Legend. Vigor, I am glad they dumped! :-P
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Yes, but Legend and Integra were also brands of cars, and they gave those up.
Mazda is doing the same thing. They use Mazda3, Mazda5, and Mazda6 to get people to include the word Mazda in the name. Even Miata was dropped, now it's MX-5.
I'm not sure they'll succeed. People still call it Miata, period, no Mazda.
Well, as you know Subaru is doing the same thing. I fully expect to see a "B#" in front of next-generation Legacy, et al. It helps unify and organize the model lines within the corporate hierarchy.
I doubt very much Honda will leave the truck market, even if sales of the Ridgeline start slowing instead of climbing. There's simply no good reason for them to do it.
On the issue of managing car lines, I see both sides of the Pacific making mistakes. I can't fault Ford for not doing much with the Taurus year after year. Not when Acura let the last gen RL squat on the showroom floor for 8 years. The NSX has been largely unchanged for, what, 15 years?
About the only difference I can see is that Honda/Toyota don't do this with their mainstream models. In the case of Acura, neither the RL nor NSX were big volume cash cows. They would never let the Accord, Civic, or TL flounder that long.
The Prelude was mentioned above, but I don't think that was a failure on Honda's part. The market dried up. Toyota and Nissan both took their sport coupes up market to a much higher price bracket (which died even faster than the Prelude). Meanwhile, "import-style" compacts like the Celica, Integra, and Civic Si cut into the lower-priced end of the spectrum. It wasn't a problem with the Prelude, the market for all mid-range sport coupes died.
Europe too I believe, same with the Legend name. So, yeah, they're not consistent. In fact they're still "Hondas" in Japan and Europe, which probably accounts for those names still being used. If Honda starts using the Acura badge in those markets, I bet the model names also change.
the reason that Acura went to alpha-numeric names, instead of using real words, is because Acura as a brand had very little name value. There was too much emphasis on Integras and Legends, which became household words, but not the brand as a whole. Worse, people who bought Integras tended to just buy another Integra, but rarely moved up to a Legend. And when the Vigor came out, it was no help at all.
By going alpha-numeric, it put more emphasis on the brand, instead of the individual models. It was also an attempt to create more of a "family" feel as you moved up the hierarchy. This might also be a case where going alpha-numeric was the right thing to do in the long run. It might not be so obvious now, because Honda is on a roll and can seemingly do no wrong, and we tend to look at the past through rose colored glasses. But as I recall, Acura was starting to hurt in the mid-90's. They were off to a successful start when they came on the scene in the late 80's, but I think sales were starting to tank.
One thing that tended to hurt the Integra,too, is that it was usually based on the PREVIOUS Civic! An Integra would come out, based on the existing Civic, and then suddenly the Civic would get redesigned, leaving the more prestigious Integra to carry on with the older platform.
They did the same thing with the CL coupe, as I recall.
Has that really changed? There's an awful lot of Acura owners around here, but off the top of my head 'Acura' doesn't get mentioned much. Seems like everyone refers to theirs and others by models. "My TL, his RL, her MDX etc.
I'd figure with alpha-numeric names, you'd almost HAVE to mention the brand name, too. For example, let's suppose someone says "I have an LS". Well, is it a Lincoln, a Lexus, an uplevel-trimmed Mercury, or a 1986 Monte Carlo with composite headlights?
Although, with some of the older, more obscure names, I end up running into the same problem. For example, I could say "I have an Intrepid/Silverado/Taurus/Malibu/Impala/Accord" and most people know what I'm talking about. But if I were to say "I have a Catalina/LeMans/Dart" I might get a few confused glances. And I'm not about to say "I have a Firedome" and expect most people to know what I'm talking about! :confuse:
I know that when I'm talking (or writing) with other car enthusiasts, I'll refer to my Acura as a TL. But when asked what kind of car I own by a non-enthusiast, I'll often say "an Acura". Then I'll specify the model if they ask.
"TL" is actually pretty unique. I don't think anybody else uses it. Same with "MDX", "RSX", and "RL".
As for "LS", whenever I hear it, the Lexus is usually the first thing that pops into my head. Most people with a 1986 Monte Carlo aren't going to specify the trim level, unless it's an SS. For instance, I didn't run around telling people I had a 1986 Monte Carlo Sport Coupe (the "proper" name for a base 1986 Monte) :shades:
bob, I agree with you. if honda makes a bunch of improvements in the 'ridge, it will sell better. look at the first gen 'ody. it is still not well thought of. my thinking is that since honda took such a small step into the pickup market, maybe they will take a step back.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
"One thing that tended to hurt the Integra,too, is that it was usually based on the PREVIOUS Civic! An Integra would come out, based on the existing Civic, and then suddenly the Civic would get redesigned, leaving the more prestigious Integra to carry on with the older platform."
To your point, Andre, the '06 Civic is all new, while the '06 RSX is based on the previous generation Civic platform. I guess the '07 RSX will be converted to the new platform.
A big problem with GM and Ford is that they run their model names into the ground. For example, the Cavalier, Grand Am and Taurus were left unchanged for so long that they all became synonomous with rental car fodder. By the time GM and Ford finally got around to redesigning the vehicles, the names had to go, as they would have killed the new version's chances for success in the market.
Honda keeps its models fresh, so the names maintain a good image. Customers have been trained to expect a new Accord and Civic every 4-5 years. Thus, the names are still fresh, even though Honda has used the Civic and the Accord monikers for 32 years and 29 years, respectively.
As for the RSX lagging behind the Civic in receiving updates - it's such a limited purpose model, and so different from the Civic, that most buyer's probably don't compare it to the Civic, although the 2006 Si may change that dynamic. Interestingly, in the last Car & Driver comparison test, the "old" RSX beat the all-new Cobalt SS.
the new sheetmetal. And the current RSX didn't lag that far behind the redesign on 01. The RSX's first model year was 02 so it probably was introduced pretty close to the new Civic.
I wonder if Acura will keep the NSX name for its replacement.
Cobalt SS isn't really all new, it's on the same old platform from the Ion, which before that was used in GM Europe cars. The platform isn't new, at least.
My non-carguy coworker borrowed his Dad's car one day last week. Our conversation went like this:
Lemmer: What kind of car is it?
B-Dog: An Acura, I think?
Lemmer: What model?
B-Dog: A Legend, I think.
Lemmer: What year?
B-Dog: A 2004, I think.
I showed him pictures on the internet of various TLs, but he wasn't sure if it was the new or the old body style. Some people just don't care at all about cars. I don't understand it.
I guess the '07 RSX will be converted to the new platform.
Rumor has it, the RSX will be discontinued after 2006. There will be no 2007 redesign... at least not for the USA. The TSX will become the entry level model for the Acura line. Meanwhile, the new Civic Si will take the place of the RSX in the sport compact segment.
That's still a rumor, but it's one that a lot of people with inside knowledge are taking it very seriously.
What could be interesting is how soon the TSX is due to be updated. The Euro Accord was released one year prior to the TSX. Since the TSX is essentially an additional trim level for the Euro Accord, it will likely get an FMC at the same time. Meaning it will have a shorter-than-normal 4 year cycle here in the US.
I just read the Edmunds write up on the new Civics and looked at the interior pics.
WHY did Honda separate the speedo from the tach and make it digital? I thought automakers were done with gimmicky digital dashboards after they realized that analog is way better and more effective. I guess not. On top of that, I read in the article that the steering wheel blocks the speedo for some drivers. I honestly wouldn't have expected something like this from Honda, I though they would at the very least be smarter than I am.
I'm getting really tired of automakers doing things like that for the sake of being different. Saturn and Toyota with the gauge clusters in the middle of the dash and now Honda with the digital speedo that's not where it's supposed to be and possibly blocked by the steering wheel for certain drivers. Honda finally put the shifter in the right place on the Si, but I guess they just had to have at least one screwy thing with the Civic, so they put in a digital speedo and blocked it with the steering wheel. Dumb. Really, really dumb.
Regarding the looks of the sedan, all I can say is that I liked it a lot better when it was still camouflaged.
OK......now it's time for the Honda faithful to defend the Civic dashboard and attempt to convince everyone that digital guages are actually better than analog gauges.
I read somewhere (correct me if i'm wrong) Honda did a study, and found out digital gauges are better.
I want to actually sit inside a 2006 Civic, before I conclude it's looks are bad, and its dash is too extreme. The Civic is slowly growning on me, but i still think its a little too exteme. Maybe in person it will look better.
didn't I read something just this week in Autoweek that said the TSX would be revised for the '07 MY? Thought I did, but I'm at the end of a LONG work day, the brain may be malfunctioning...
I will be so sad when the RSX waves bye-bye...all the more reason for me to keep the one I have for about 20 years!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I wouldn't be surprised if it goes away as part of the effort to move Acura up in market orientation and better differentiate it from Honda. Given Americans' lack of enthusiasm for hatchbacks, the new Civic Si does make it redundant.
I drove past my local dealer day before yesterday, and whoa! They have done a good job of clearing out the '05 Civics and Accords! Hardly any left, just a dozen of each, or so. Mostly the very cheapest Civics, and just to be contrary, the most expensive Accords (mostly V-6s, although a big pile of hybrids they had last week are gone).
I wonder if the next-gen Civic hybrid will sell better. Toyota dealers mostly STILL can't keep the Prius in stock.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I don't know if Honda did a study or not, but I figure there are pros and cons to both designs. I've driven cars with both and based on that experience this is what I'd expect.
Digital gauges are problematic as they can get washed out by the sun. A glare off the face plate will wipe out the information completely. So dials have the advantage there.
However, analog dials require the font size to be no more than 1/4 inch tall (typically). A digital gauge can have lettering 3/4"" tall. Because digital gauges only need to display one number at a time, they also take up far less real estate in the binnacle. That means other instruments can be displayed more effectively.
Given that Honda has given the digi speedo it's own little cubby, I'm guessing the problem with glare will not be as bad as it was with my 86 Cavalier Z24. But I'd have to drive one to be certain. Until then I don't really have an opinion on the subject.
I don't know if Honda did a study or not, but I figure there are pros and cons to both designs.
There are always pros and cons to everything, however, the cons outweigh the pros as far as digital gauge in cars are concerned. It's so obvious, just look at the number of cars with analog gauges and then compare that to the ones with digital. An advantage that you missed with analog is that they're easier to see with peripheral vision. You don't really have to look at them, you can just glance and see where the dial is on the gauge.
I didn't find that to be true with my Chevy. The numerals were so large, I could read them easily. When I'm glancing at the speedo on my CR-V or TL (both have dials), I read the speed by the approximate position of the swing arm. I don't think I even read the digits, but that does take some experience with the car.
By placing the speedo in the upper tier (and combined with the larger numerals) glances at the Civic's speedo should be easy. But, again, I haven't driven the car to experience it.
Do you mean the same clientel around me who buy Camrys, Accords, BMWs, CTSs, Hyundae, and Avalons? Do they have larger numerals? Or do you mean the mechanical engineer friend of ours in his 30s with his LeSabre??? :grin.
I don't like digital gauges for the speedo and tach. I find the "flashing" numbers to be a real distraction, plus they're impossible to read if you are accellerating or decellerating fast.
I think they're great for clocks and ambient temp gauges though.
that would bring you out, Imidazol :P Actually, the one number that really sticks out on my Dad's Regal is the digital face of the radio. The numbers on that sucker are HUGE! This picture doesn't do them justice...
Comments
I have driven the 4WD, and I know the gearing keeps the engine revving, I am just a little surprised that mileage would drop so much. It's not like it needs 3500 rpm to do 60 in top gear.
edit...anon: I was VERY surprised to see all the stick shift 4WD Element EXs at my local dealer - they don't usually order a whole lot of stick shifts. They had the orangey red color, the lighter blue, the faded green color, and the silver, all in stick. I would be a lot more interested in buying an Element as a replacement for my truck if it had an AWD system that drives all four wheels all the time. As it is, the Element uses a system that is 100/0 FWD until the system detects slip.
I want to test drive the new V-6 MT Accord sedan. :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
As for gearing, I just looked it up (I'm doing this stuff at autos.yahoo.com) and it looks like the Element with a manual uses a 4.77:1 axle, versus 4.44:1 for the automatic. The Accord manual uses a taller 4.39:1 axle. Automatic uses the same 4.44:1 axle as the Element.
Now, I don't know the individual gear ratios for the trannies, but going from a 4.39 axle to a 4.77 axle could account for close to 10% of the mileage penalty right there.
Honda gets it wrong, then sticks with it until it's right.
GM waits until they get it right, then they kill it.
-juice
I'm convinced that one of the big failures of Detroit carmakers is that they give up too easily on model names. A car may be successful for a few years, and then after it slips in the marketplace, it's replaced with a new model with a different name. I think that's been a HUGE marketing mistake. It takes years to build brand/model image, and then to throw it all away every five or so years is just plain stupid.
The most successful models have been around for literally decades (Suburban, Accord, Civic, Corolla, E-Class, S-Class, F-Series, Corvette, etc.). The carmakers start with a clear image of what they want and stick with it through both good and bad times. Over the long haul it pays off big time.
Bob
I don't know what their rationale was for using the Lumina name, though. The Lumina came out for 1990, and the only Celebrity left for 1990 was the wagon. Come to think of it, they overlapped the Impala and Lumina a bit, too. The Impala came out for 2000, but I think they built Luminas through 2001, mainly as fleet models.
And sometimes, when they'd get a good name, like "Cutlass", they'd run it into the ground. In the 80's they were fine when they just had the Cutlass Supreme. But then they had the Cutlass Ciera, and then came out with the Calais (previously a name used for the sporty bucket seat/console version of the Cutlass Supreme), which then became the Cutlas Calais. It just got TOO confusing, and left people wondering what a Cutlass was supposed to be!
Ford took a risk in dropping the Taurus name.
Even Acura took risks dropping names like Legend and Integra.
-juice
Bingo!
2018 430i Gran Coupe
As to Acura, yes they took a risk in replacing the model names. However, in this case I think they were correct, as their new naming is inline with their total branding of all their model lines.
Bob
Note that their two most popular vehicles, TL and MDX, didn't have successful predecessors so they never gave up a name like Integra.
Even the new and great RL can't quite live up to the name Legend, which IMO held a higher position in its segment back then.
-juice
Bob
Some of Japan's model names of the past have been wonderfully evocative, and they still use them today in the home market. I wish they had kept them, and two names RIGHT AT THE TOP of that wish list would be Integra and Legend. Vigor, I am glad they dumped! :-P
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Bob
Mazda is doing the same thing. They use Mazda3, Mazda5, and Mazda6 to get people to include the word Mazda in the name. Even Miata was dropped, now it's MX-5.
I'm not sure they'll succeed. People still call it Miata, period, no Mazda.
-juice
Bob
Element 5MT
1st - 3.533
2nd - 2.042
3rd - 1.355
4th - 1.028
5th - 0.825
Final - 4.765
Accord 5MT
1st - 3.267
2nd - 1.769
3rd - 1.147
4th - 0.872
5th - 0.659
Final - 4.389
Note, the Accord actually has two overdrive gears.
On the issue of managing car lines, I see both sides of the Pacific making mistakes. I can't fault Ford for not doing much with the Taurus year after year. Not when Acura let the last gen RL squat on the showroom floor for 8 years. The NSX has been largely unchanged for, what, 15 years?
About the only difference I can see is that Honda/Toyota don't do this with their mainstream models. In the case of Acura, neither the RL nor NSX were big volume cash cows. They would never let the Accord, Civic, or TL flounder that long.
The Prelude was mentioned above, but I don't think that was a failure on Honda's part. The market dried up. Toyota and Nissan both took their sport coupes up market to a much higher price bracket (which died even faster than the Prelude). Meanwhile, "import-style" compacts like the Celica, Integra, and Civic Si cut into the lower-priced end of the spectrum. It wasn't a problem with the Prelude, the market for all mid-range sport coupes died.
-juice
Bob
By going alpha-numeric, it put more emphasis on the brand, instead of the individual models. It was also an attempt to create more of a "family" feel as you moved up the hierarchy. This might also be a case where going alpha-numeric was the right thing to do in the long run. It might not be so obvious now, because Honda is on a roll and can seemingly do no wrong, and we tend to look at the past through rose colored glasses. But as I recall, Acura was starting to hurt in the mid-90's. They were off to a successful start when they came on the scene in the late 80's, but I think sales were starting to tank.
One thing that tended to hurt the Integra,too, is that it was usually based on the PREVIOUS Civic! An Integra would come out, based on the existing Civic, and then suddenly the Civic would get redesigned, leaving the more prestigious Integra to carry on with the older platform.
They did the same thing with the CL coupe, as I recall.
Bob
Although, with some of the older, more obscure names, I end up running into the same problem. For example, I could say "I have an Intrepid/Silverado/Taurus/Malibu/Impala/Accord" and most people know what I'm talking about. But if I were to say "I have a Catalina/LeMans/Dart" I might get a few confused glances. And I'm not about to say "I have a Firedome" and expect most people to know what I'm talking about! :confuse:
If LS is a trim level, people don't usually use the name alone unless they are in the context of that car (ex: Mercury threads).
Just my unscientific observation.
Good point about people just using "TL" though.
-juice
As for "LS", whenever I hear it, the Lexus is usually the first thing that pops into my head. Most people with a 1986 Monte Carlo aren't going to specify the trim level, unless it's an SS. For instance, I didn't run around telling people I had a 1986 Monte Carlo Sport Coupe (the "proper" name for a base 1986 Monte) :shades:
my thinking is that since honda took such a small step into the pickup market, maybe they will take a step back.
To your point, Andre, the '06 Civic is all new, while the '06 RSX is based on the previous generation Civic platform. I guess the '07 RSX will be converted to the new platform.
Honda keeps its models fresh, so the names maintain a good image. Customers have been trained to expect a new Accord and Civic every 4-5 years. Thus, the names are still fresh, even though Honda has used the Civic and the Accord monikers for 32 years and 29 years, respectively.
As for the RSX lagging behind the Civic in receiving updates - it's such a limited purpose model, and so different from the Civic, that most buyer's probably don't compare it to the Civic, although the 2006 Si may change that dynamic. Interestingly, in the last Car & Driver comparison test, the "old" RSX beat the all-new Cobalt SS.
And the current RSX didn't lag that far behind the redesign on 01. The RSX's first model year was 02 so it probably was introduced pretty close to the new Civic.
Cobalt SS isn't really all new, it's on the same old platform from the Ion, which before that was used in GM Europe cars. The platform isn't new, at least.
-juice
Lemmer: What kind of car is it?
B-Dog: An Acura, I think?
Lemmer: What model?
B-Dog: A Legend, I think.
Lemmer: What year?
B-Dog: A 2004, I think.
I showed him pictures on the internet of various TLs, but he wasn't sure if it was the new or the old body style. Some people just don't care at all about cars. I don't understand it.
Integra/RSX does always trail the Civic revision by a year. Just extra time to get it right from the get-go! :shades:
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Rumor has it, the RSX will be discontinued after 2006. There will be no 2007 redesign... at least not for the USA. The TSX will become the entry level model for the Acura line. Meanwhile, the new Civic Si will take the place of the RSX in the sport compact segment.
That's still a rumor, but it's one that a lot of people with inside knowledge are taking it very seriously.
What could be interesting is how soon the TSX is due to be updated. The Euro Accord was released one year prior to the TSX. Since the TSX is essentially an additional trim level for the Euro Accord, it will likely get an FMC at the same time. Meaning it will have a shorter-than-normal 4 year cycle here in the US.
For all the fans of new-fangled safety equipment.
-juice
WHY did Honda separate the speedo from the tach and make it digital? I thought automakers were done with gimmicky digital dashboards after they realized that analog is way better and more effective. I guess not. On top of that, I read in the article that the steering wheel blocks the speedo for some drivers. I honestly wouldn't have expected something like this from Honda, I though they would at the very least be smarter than I am.
I'm getting really tired of automakers doing things like that for the sake of being different. Saturn and Toyota with the gauge clusters in the middle of the dash and now Honda with the digital speedo that's not where it's supposed to be and possibly blocked by the steering wheel for certain drivers. Honda finally put the shifter in the right place on the Si, but I guess they just had to have at least one screwy thing with the Civic, so they put in a digital speedo and blocked it with the steering wheel. Dumb. Really, really dumb.
Regarding the looks of the sedan, all I can say is that I liked it a lot better when it was still camouflaged.
OK......now it's time for the Honda faithful to defend the Civic dashboard and attempt to convince everyone that digital guages are actually better than analog gauges.
I want to actually sit inside a 2006 Civic, before I conclude it's looks are bad, and its dash is too extreme. The Civic is slowly growning on me, but i still think its a little too exteme. Maybe in person it will look better.
I will be so sad when the RSX waves bye-bye...all the more reason for me to keep the one I have for about 20 years!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I drove past my local dealer day before yesterday, and whoa! They have done a good job of clearing out the '05 Civics and Accords! Hardly any left, just a dozen of each, or so. Mostly the very cheapest Civics, and just to be contrary, the most expensive Accords (mostly V-6s, although a big pile of hybrids they had last week are gone).
I wonder if the next-gen Civic hybrid will sell better. Toyota dealers mostly STILL can't keep the Prius in stock.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Digital gauges are problematic as they can get washed out by the sun. A glare off the face plate will wipe out the information completely. So dials have the advantage there.
However, analog dials require the font size to be no more than 1/4 inch tall (typically). A digital gauge can have lettering 3/4"" tall. Because digital gauges only need to display one number at a time, they also take up far less real estate in the binnacle. That means other instruments can be displayed more effectively.
Given that Honda has given the digi speedo it's own little cubby, I'm guessing the problem with glare will not be as bad as it was with my 86 Cavalier Z24. But I'd have to drive one to be certain. Until then I don't really have an opinion on the subject.
There are always pros and cons to everything, however, the cons outweigh the pros as far as digital gauge in cars are concerned. It's so obvious, just look at the number of cars with analog gauges and then compare that to the ones with digital. An advantage that you missed with analog is that they're easier to see with peripheral vision. You don't really have to look at them, you can just glance and see where the dial is on the gauge.
By placing the speedo in the upper tier (and combined with the larger numerals) glances at the Civic's speedo should be easy. But, again, I haven't driven the car to experience it.
Do you mean the same clientel around me who buy Camrys, Accords, BMWs, CTSs, Hyundae, and Avalons? Do they have larger numerals? Or do you mean the mechanical engineer friend of ours in his 30s with his LeSabre??? :grin.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I think they're great for clocks and ambient temp gauges though.
Bob