yeah I don't understand how this instance is a sign of Honda going down and out. It is a dealer problem (which indeed does reflect on Honda whether they like it or not) but doesn't mean anything about Honda's "run is over and done".
...I don't know if this is a national chain, but there is a company in Conshohocken, PA called Dent Wizards that uses a technique to remove small dents without painting or sanding. I've used them when I got a particularly nasty ding in the weirdest place on my 1994 Cadillac DeVille - dead center on the deck lid. Something must've fallen on it. Anyway, when they finished in less than an hour, you couldn't tell a ding was there.
Well, as you said, the actions of a dealer reflect on Honda itself. Now, if there are a LOT of cases of this happening, it could be a sign that they're going down. Especially if they're encouraging it somehow, though from what isellhondas says, that doesn't appear to be likely.
However, multiple bad-experience dealerships combined with not improving their current lineup to compete well, plus certain PR issues that I won't mention, and Honda could be starting down a slippery slope.
"If anyone thinks they're going to get better treatment at a Nissan, Mazda, Toyota, Subaru, etc. dealer than Honda, they're naive."
I'm not naive, I'm lucky. I found a GOOD Mazda dealer. And the 2 Honda dealers here think they sell BMWs (Incidentally, the BMW dealer here isn't doing too good either). Their service department tends to be a bit on the bad side, while my Mazda dealer has always been helpful, and bends the rules for me.
Of course, that might have something to do with them also being a VW dealer and getting people in who bought $60,000 Phateons (actually, that shouldn't be plural, HAH!) and Toruaegs (SP?).
Well.....I've seen many a dealer cover up paint flaws, scratches, paint imperfections, etc. In fact, when the new Nissan Altimas arrived a couple of years ago, most of them had flawed paint jobs that came to this town anyway. The dealer had to repaint lots and lots of hoods prior to customer's taking delivery. People bought them anyway. However, I would not. Reason being, if you're going to keep the car any length of time at all, that repaint is going to wear and weather much more quickly than the factory paint, no matter how well done the repair was. In Vegas, sun and heat really take their toll on your paint all year long. It's a trade-off for not having rust. Sooner than later, that painted hood, or whatever part it was, is going to weather, flake or discolor before the rest of the car. If I do the damage, and need repair, that's my bad, but when I buy a new car, I expect it to be right. I agree with gagrice - I would flee from that particular car. At least, I would require a substantial discount for taking it. Something that would compensate me for later having to deal with it again.
In May of 2003 I purchased a certified' pre-owned Honda Accord with 27000 miles on it at Team Honda, in Lithia Springs, GA. The car looked great and was reasonably priced as we later found out why. I have had problem, after problem, not only with the car but the Dearlership as well. I was told untruths by the salesman who we purchased the vehicle from. And anytime, I have taken my auto back to Dealership the outcome is expensive & (not covered under my extended warranty, that I purchased for 2800.00 addlt dollars). I am now looking to trade the auto to get a New Vehicle. At least then I will feel comfortable that a Warranty is in place, for repairs & etc. "RULE OF THUMB IF IT SEEMS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE, IT USUALLY IS".
As far as certified used cars go and extended warrentee I can feel your pain. However to be fair if I wasn't so hard headed I would have been in the same boat as you when I took my wife's New Yorker back to the dealer. When we got it the car was about two years old and loaded. It was her car and the first Luxury car that was all hers. It even had one of those voices that told you the door was "A Jar" or fasten you seat belt, or you had another twenty miles before you reached you trip destination. Well that computer for the dash went out and the Local Chrysler dealer wanted a fortune to fix it. I had called around to see just what could have gone wrong and discovered the failing part was covered under my extended warrentee. The dealer told me I was wrong and that the whole unit would have to be sent out to a company they would replace it for me. I called the warrentee people from the service shack and pitched a fit. The asked to speak to my service tech and informed him that the repair would be made under the extended warrentee. The dealer was mad and after fixing my car didn't even bother to washing it or removing the paper mat the mechanic left in it. But I got the dash fixed. Never did like that voice telling me what to do however.
I had no idea an extended warranty could be that much money. I thought $1100 for 5 years 75k BtoB was high on my Suburban. Maybe it was the fact that it was a Honda that made it so expensive...hmmmm
I think women just need to stop buying cars. 8 out of 10 people who come on here with vague "I paid too much and got took by the dealer" posts are women. Do your research beforehand and you can save yourself a lot of problems.
maybe dealers ought to have a little more integrity in the way they treat a customer, and not take advantage of the inexperienced like some of them do. I'll tell ya, I may pay too much for a car sometimes, but I only buy from dealers I know and treat me well. I won't be crapped on and raped at the same time! It's not just women who are taken advantage of, but they tend to feel it more than men do. We're too stubborn to admit we got screwed me thinks.
Dealers can only "take" you if you let them. Any one who has internet access, which this person obviously does have, shouldn't get taken advantage of to the tune of $2800 for an extended warranty. We have actually bought 2 cars from the above-mentioned dealer and have gotten great deals and decent service both times. It's not up to the dealer to protect you from yourself. The way I see it, someone has to pay too much so I can pay too little. Selfish sounding I know, but then again I am smart enough to never pay $2800 for an extended warranty.
That's a lot for an extended warranty! I bought an extended warranty for my '00 Intrepid that was "bumper to bumper", and I use the term loosely, and took it out to 5 years/100,000 miles, for about $1200. $200 deductible. Standard warranty was 3yr/36K mile, b2b, which I blew through in about 14 months. I thought it was worth it, at the time, for the peace of mind. Now, at about 94,500 miles, and with 4 months of payments left, I haven't had to use the damned thing once!
My Dad bought a used '03 Regal with about 19500 miles from the same dealer last September. He sprung for an extended warranty as well. I forget how much it was now, something like $995 I think? But it also had no deductible.
The worst rip I ever encountered for an extended warranty was back in 1999. I was looking at a used 1996 Caprice with the 350 LT-1 engine. It had 36,000 miles on it, and was out of warranty, both in time and mileage. I think it came with a 3 month/3000 mile warranty. They would've sold me a 1 year warranty for something like $1495! I told 'em where they could stick their extended warranty. And their suppository-shaped Caprice! ;-)
You're right - my business partner always had me buy his cars for the past 20 years for him, but when he married his second wife, she took over the job and I pity the poor dealer who has to work to sell her a car!! They've truly earned their hold back - if there's any left!
Maybe the salesmen get a big chunk of that extended warranty money. I only bought it once and didn't need it. I drive too few miles. The years go by way before the miles.
The last extended warranty we bought was for our 99 EX 5-speed sedan. Paid $800 for 7/100,000 with no deductible. Never used it and haven't bought an extended warranty since.
Yeah, and like anything else, extended warranties were meant to make money.
For most people, especially people with Hondas, it won't be worth it, because if it was, they wouldn't be making any money. Besides, Honda has been making a habit of extending their warranties on the most fragile piece of major equipment anyway, the auto transmission.
$500 for a 5 year/100K warranty seems like a pretty good deal.
$2800 for an extended warranty is criminal. I can't believe there's a dealer out there that is THAT crooked. I also can't believe someone would pay $2800 for an extended warranty. People in here are right, it's your fault if you don't do your homework.
I almost felt bad for the dealership after the deal I got on the last car I bought. Almost.
But anyway, I'm not sure what any of this has to do with Honda. Ripping people off is a dealership's job. And remember, they'll only do it if you let them.
You HAVE to know what you are doing when working with them. As Anony said, we've bought a couple cars from them and it can be quite tedious.
For example when I bought my SI, they tried to pack on GAP contract even though I was putting like $5000 down. For another $700 too. My insurance company offers GAP for $39/6 months. But I just chalk it up the dealership trying to make money. Your "job" is to pay as little as possible abd theirs is to find a way to charge as much as they can get away with.
Are there to make a profit. If you are the kind of person who is adverse to risk, you should buy a warranty.
Back when I was a manager for Sears, they pushed (and still push) maintenance agreements on appliances they sold. They made a lot of money on these. The people who cashed in when their washing machine broke were tickled to death the repairs were covered.
Is after you make the deal and you have told the salesman and the sales manager, and his mother in law just how much you want to pay out the door then you get hit by the finance guy. He then tries to sell you the extended warrentee. No big deal, you can simply say no. But he says, for $1500.00 you can get the extended warrentee. You say no thank you. He doesn't even blink and he says, how about the same coverage for $800.00? You think this sounds better but still you have researched the vehicle and maybe even do much of your own work so you say no again. Just before you sign the papers he asks one more time. How about $500.00? you might think this is worth it so you say yes. The point is where did they get the origional $1500.00?
"The point is where did they get the origional $1500.00?"
You know where, boaz......it was commission. The F & I guy can keep what he makes over a peg, usually more than $500, but it's good to say no at first - they usually will come down some.
And, haven't you noticed; most Honda and Toyotaphiles are wound a little tight? They take it personally when you "attack" their favorite machine...
Kicking ants? That doesn't make sense. You'd have to be figuratively bigger and better than everyone on the Mazda6 forum, and that's not true. Can you say arrogance?
I suppose I should have guessed but it seems like such a scam. They never just say, "Ok, I guess you don't want it. They just come back with a 40 percent discount. It is not just Honda it is most of them. Saturn and Lexus may be the only exception.
When you kick an ant hill they get very angry and aggressive. Kinda like when my screen name pops up in the Mazda6 room. It's hilarious. I'mm sure if Anony went in and typed Gee35 in the subject line many member's keyboards would get verbal diarrea.
As far as being bigger....I am 6'6' 220 so I'm probably bigger than most of them too. In a literal sense that is. Speaking of bigger though, it seems many Mazda6 owners seem to have "short man's syndrome" when it comes to the Accord.
Since we've been discussing how the recent transmission recalls for Accords, Odysseys, etc. and the CR-V fire issue reflect on Honda's reputation for safety, reliability and design excellence, I thought it was interesting to see that the NHTSA just announced 2 safety related recalls on the much-vaunted Lexus LS430, the first safety recalls on ths LS line since 1998.
One is a transmission recall where a broken part could prevent the parking brake from activating.
The other is a defect in fuel pumps that could cause their failure. (Fortunately, no fires are expected with this one.)
Then we have the just-announced recall of the Camry for side-curtain airbag malfunctions.
Then, in the "alternative to the CR-V" arena, the Saturn Vue is under investigation for suspension issues, as the suspension on 2 units collapsed during NHTSA rollover tests. The left rear wheel in both two and four-wheel-drive Vues was involved.
If safety related recalls and investigations are one measurement for an automaker's problems, it appears that Honda has good company among its peers of automakers with a reputation for reliability that have had noteable recalls and/or investigations recently.
on Saturday morning, on his way to work, my roommate called me all excited and frantic, because he saw a vehicle burning up on Route 50, in MD, on the way to Annapolis.
Sorry to disappoint the Honda Hatas, but it wasn't a CRV. It was a Neon! First-gen model.
this forum was created for Honda Haters. It more than likely was to question if Honda's rocket like assent ion into the automotive stratosphere has slowed. For most of us Honda has improved year after year to set the benchmark on at least two cars. The Accord and the Civic. The automotive press and consumer surveys have indicated that the Civic is no longer the benchmark and some have wondered if this is a blip for Honda or the sign that Honda is becoming just one of the boys. I think it is simply that competition is getting stiffer and many of the big players are simply in a holding pattern. As some have pointed out the next two or three years will tell if this is a turning point in Honda's reputation that we can point at, or was this just an off year?
But I do think Japanese cars in general aren't as "plush" feeling as they used to be. All the hard plastic they use on the interiors is disappointing. I'd rather have the interior of a 93 Accord than most new cars being built. Even the new Accord looks nice, but it doesn't please me as well as the older ones did.
Same thing goes for the Camry. My moms old 87 was great and it was a DX. And there will be no better than the 92-96's as an all-around mile sponge.
But I do remember the thick velour type fabric they used starting in at least 1987 (whatever year they started the pop-up headlights), the soft touch materials on everything on the insides, and the much more ornate patterns on the door panels. That's what I meant. They felt like someone took some time on them to make them nice.
Honda and Toyota really came into thier own in this market starting in the late 80's. The pop-up headlight Accord and Camry of that time killed everything the domestics were trying to compete with.
"Speaking of bigger though, it seems many Mazda6 owners seem to have "short man's syndrome" when it comes to the Accord."
Your arrogance is showing again. You have to be a short man to have short man's syndrome. So "many Mazda6 owners" feel that their Mazda6s are inferior to the Accord and have "short man's syndrome"? All of us Mazda6 owners are bitterly jealous of the Accord and feel like we have something to prove? LMAO!!! I feel bad for you people.
are a styling fad that comes and goes. Most cars from the late 40's and early 50's were pretty plush, even though they had a lot of hard metal in them. Then, this miracle material called vinyl comes along, and allows for a whole new array of brighter, airy, more colorful interiors. But as the vinyl replaced cloth and other fabrics, the cars just lost their plushness.
Then in the late 60's, they started fluffing them up again. I had a '69 Bonneville, where even the plood was soft to the touch! By the mid-late 70's, cloths were becoming the in thing again, as vinyls started to become relegated more to cheaper, basic models. These cloth-covered, cushy interiors seemed to be in vogue again for the most part until, oh, maybe the early 90's. Then they seemed to be going for a starker appearance again. Also, it seemed that most of the blues, greens, burgundies, etc, were giving way to a sea of gray and beige and, if you were lucky, "charcoal".
I had a few friends back in college with Accords. One of them was a 1980 hatchback that was pretty well-loaded. Had this thick velour that was probably about the equivalent of what you would've seen on an Electra, 98, or Bonneville Brougham of the era. Carpet was pretty plush and shaggy, too. Another friend had an '84 or '85 Accord sedan with leather! That sucker was really plush for what, at the time, I still considered to be an entry level car that competed with Cavaliers and Tempos!
I really like the Mazda 6, especially is "S" trim with the manual trans - it's a good looking car - much better looking than that poor imitation of a used bar of soap Honda came up with when they redesigned the Accord (and Civic) last year.
The '98-02 Accords are great looking, as are the '94-97, and my favorites, the '90-93. Honda dropped the ball on the new Accords, especially when they let Acura have the TSX - a downright gorgeous ride - the same car that's the "Accord" everywhere else but in the US!
Is because that's what the people that sign the checks actually want. They seem to be still signing on the line for em with very few advertised incentives. I agree about the Mazda6 though. I drove it and loved it. It fits me like a glove. Unfortunately the Accord has IMHO a better powertrain and XM radio. I LOVE Xm radio. So...we've owned three versions of this Accord and no Mazda6's.
Same with the Altima. Love the bigness of it. Love the powertrain. The looks are very nice too. But the interior turned me off so much on my first test drive I haven't looked back. I hope the redesign is a great improvement.
ditto. I've always liked Accord, until now. The new one is an abomination IMO which is a shame because they do have best in class powertrains.
If the Accord looked like the TSX here in the US, I very well might have bought one instead of my Mazda6. It would've been real nice to be able to get the 160 hp 2.4L with a manual, in a TSX body without all of the TSX's doo-dads, for less than $20K. I don't think too many people (even people who've signed checks for the new Accord) would say that the new Accord looks better than the TSX.
Comments
However, multiple bad-experience dealerships combined with not improving their current lineup to compete well, plus certain PR issues that I won't mention, and Honda could be starting down a slippery slope.
They're no better or worse than any other non-luxury dealer IMO.
If anyone thinks they're going to get better treatment at a Nissan, Mazda, Toyota, Subaru, etc. dealer than Honda, they're naive.
The level of service that you get varies from dealer to dealer and even from service advisor to service advisor.
I'm not naive, I'm lucky. I found a GOOD Mazda dealer. And the 2 Honda dealers here think they sell BMWs (Incidentally, the BMW dealer here isn't doing too good either). Their service department tends to be a bit on the bad side, while my Mazda dealer has always been helpful, and bends the rules for me.
Of course, that might have something to do with them also being a VW dealer and getting people in who bought $60,000 Phateons (actually, that shouldn't be plural, HAH!) and Toruaegs (SP?).
My Dad bought a used '03 Regal with about 19500 miles from the same dealer last September. He sprung for an extended warranty as well. I forget how much it was now, something like $995 I think? But it also had no deductible.
The worst rip I ever encountered for an extended warranty was back in 1999. I was looking at a used 1996 Caprice with the 350 LT-1 engine. It had 36,000 miles on it, and was out of warranty, both in time and mileage. I think it came with a 3 month/3000 mile warranty. They would've sold me a 1 year warranty for something like $1495! I told 'em where they could stick their extended warranty. And their suppository-shaped Caprice! ;-)
On the other hand, if something really catastrophic happens, think how relieved you will feel knowing it's covered.
Just like any kind of insurance.
For most people, especially people with Hondas, it won't be worth it, because if it was, they wouldn't be making any money. Besides, Honda has been making a habit of extending their warranties on the most fragile piece of major equipment anyway, the auto transmission.
$2800 for an extended warranty is criminal. I can't believe there's a dealer out there that is THAT crooked. I also can't believe someone would pay $2800 for an extended warranty. People in here are right, it's your fault if you don't do your homework.
I almost felt bad for the dealership after the deal I got on the last car I bought. Almost.
But anyway, I'm not sure what any of this has to do with Honda. Ripping people off is a dealership's job. And remember, they'll only do it if you let them.
For example when I bought my SI, they tried to pack on GAP contract even though I was putting like $5000 down. For another $700 too. My insurance company offers GAP for $39/6 months. But I just chalk it up the dealership trying to make money. Your "job" is to pay as little as possible abd theirs is to find a way to charge as much as they can get away with.
Back when I was a manager for Sears, they pushed (and still push) maintenance agreements on appliances they sold. They made a lot of money on these. The people who cashed in when their washing machine broke were tickled to death the repairs were covered.
You know where, boaz......it was commission. The F & I guy can keep what he makes over a peg, usually more than $500, but it's good to say no at first - they usually will come down some.
And, haven't you noticed; most Honda and Toyotaphiles are wound a little tight? They take it personally when you "attack" their favorite machine...
As far as being bigger....I am 6'6' 220 so I'm probably bigger than most of them too. In a literal sense that is. Speaking of bigger though, it seems many Mazda6 owners seem to have "short man's syndrome" when it comes to the Accord.
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One is a transmission recall where a broken part could prevent the parking brake from activating.
The other is a defect in fuel pumps that could cause their failure. (Fortunately, no fires are expected with this one.)
Then we have the just-announced recall of the Camry for side-curtain airbag malfunctions.
Then, in the "alternative to the CR-V" arena, the Saturn Vue is under investigation for suspension issues, as the suspension on 2 units collapsed during NHTSA rollover tests. The left rear wheel in both two and four-wheel-drive Vues was involved.
If safety related recalls and investigations are one measurement for an automaker's problems, it appears that Honda has good company among its peers of automakers with a reputation for reliability that have had noteable recalls and/or investigations recently.
Sorry to disappoint the Honda Hatas, but it wasn't a CRV. It was a Neon! First-gen model.
Same thing goes for the Camry. My moms old 87 was great and it was a DX. And there will be no better than the 92-96's as an all-around mile sponge.
Really, save for Lexus, I don't tend to think of any of the Japanese cars as "plush".
Honda and Toyota really came into thier own in this market starting in the late 80's. The pop-up headlight Accord and Camry of that time killed everything the domestics were trying to compete with.
Your arrogance is showing again. You have to be a short man to have short man's syndrome. So "many Mazda6 owners" feel that their Mazda6s are inferior to the Accord and have "short man's syndrome"? All of us Mazda6 owners are bitterly jealous of the Accord and feel like we have something to prove? LMAO!!! I feel bad for you people.
Then in the late 60's, they started fluffing them up again. I had a '69 Bonneville, where even the plood was soft to the touch! By the mid-late 70's, cloths were becoming the in thing again, as vinyls started to become relegated more to cheaper, basic models. These cloth-covered, cushy interiors seemed to be in vogue again for the most part until, oh, maybe the early 90's. Then they seemed to be going for a starker appearance again. Also, it seemed that most of the blues, greens, burgundies, etc, were giving way to a sea of gray and beige and, if you were lucky, "charcoal".
I had a few friends back in college with Accords. One of them was a 1980 hatchback that was pretty well-loaded. Had this thick velour that was probably about the equivalent of what you would've seen on an Electra, 98, or Bonneville Brougham of the era. Carpet was pretty plush and shaggy, too. Another friend had an '84 or '85 Accord sedan with leather! That sucker was really plush for what, at the time, I still considered to be an entry level car that competed with Cavaliers and Tempos!
The '98-02 Accords are great looking, as are the '94-97, and my favorites, the '90-93. Honda dropped the ball on the new Accords, especially when they let Acura have the TSX - a downright gorgeous ride - the same car that's the "Accord" everywhere else but in the US!
Same with the Altima. Love the bigness of it. Love the powertrain. The looks are very nice too. But the interior turned me off so much on my first test drive I haven't looked back. I hope the redesign is a great improvement.
If the Accord looked like the TSX here in the US, I very well might have bought one instead of my Mazda6. It would've been real nice to be able to get the 160 hp 2.4L with a manual, in a TSX body without all of the TSX's doo-dads, for less than $20K. I don't think too many people (even people who've signed checks for the new Accord) would say that the new Accord looks better than the TSX.