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Hybrid Diesels?

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Comments

  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    EPA standards are just that, standards. They lack flexibility, and cannot be expected to. In case of traditional ICE vehicles, there are plenty of variables that add to the variations when compared in real life. Throw in a mild hybrid system, and you add a little more. Besides all the ICE related complexities in creating a “solid” standard, mild hybrids would produce different results if the “drive” happens to rely too much on ICE or quite a bit on the hybrid system (too many stop lights, where a typical ICE would get you 0 mpg, a hybrid may not be burning any).

     

    A full hybrid system goes beyond the two (ICE only and mild hybrid) because it has its own variances. Under some conditions, the vehicle drives in electric only mode, but that may change at some point during the “drive”. So, if the test procedure happens to pick up the first phase (more electric), you get exceptional fuel economy and low emissions. Reverse it and the results would be different.

     

    So, real time results will vary considerably compared to EPA standards. I see more so with full hybrids than with mild hybrids than with conventional ICE. It all depends on the “drive”.
  • "Was the EPA they overly optimistic for political reasons? It looks like they are averaging across the board 49 combined MPG. Only about 10% of those reporting are averaging the EPA 55 mpg combined "

     

    .

     

    The EPA's city ratings are screwed up. They advertise 60 City for the Prius, but no one who live in the city actually achieves that. (And of course the skews the combined mpg too.)

     

    When comparing hybrids, the only number that is accurate is the Highway number. Both Prius & civic owners are getting close to the EPA-advertised highway average.

     

    troy
  • rfruthrfruth Posts: 630
    Ford concept pairs electric, diesel - Mercury's Meta One vehicle features a low-emission, turbo-charged V-6. The Meta One's powertrain combines a fuel-saving electric motor with a twin-turbocharged V-6 diesel engine. The pairing has one big benefit: lower emission levels.

     

    http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0412/26/B01-41965.htm
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    I was not aware of this fact:

     

    "General Motors, Ford and DaimlerChyrsler each completed diesel- electric hybrid cars in early 2000 that could get 80 miles to the gallon, but have largely abandoned these projects because of the new air pollution rules. They are now struggling to catch up with Toyota and Honda in the production of hybrid vehicles that use electric power to improve the overall fuel efficiency of vehicles with gasoline engines."

     

    Read the entire article here:

     

    http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/27/business/27DIES.html?ex=1105160- 400&en=dba07d56033beb7a&ei=5070&oref=login&ex=108- 6321600&en=79e288a1fbe7e8c8&ei=5070
  • "but have largely abandoned these diesel- electric projects because of the new air pollution rules."

     

    QUESTION: Why do reporters post lies like this??? These 80 mpg cars were part of the Partership for Next Gen Vehicles (PNGV), and was killed by BUSH in 2000. They were killed by *politics* because the PNGV program shut down. Similar reason why the EV1 was killed.

     

    .

     

    In reality, both Ford & Chrysler/Dodge will be importing their clean Focus & Intrepid diesels from Europe to America in 2006-7. Diesels can & do pass emissions rules when run with sulfur-free fuel.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,224
    They were killed by *politics* because the PNGV program shut down. Similar reason why the EV1 was killed.

     

    We wasted several billion dollars on that PNGV corporate welfare with nothing to show for it. We are getting our innovative, economical vehicles from Japan & Germany, without spending more on "Pork Barrel" politics.
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi Gagrice:

     

    ___One hyphenated word made by one of the original PNGV manufacturers … Meta-One ;-)

     

    ___Good Luck

     

    ___Wayne R. Gerdes
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000597026670/

     

    Hybrid Diesel by GM. Very interesting! Will this possibly be a Saturn? Hopefully!
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    The last paragraph of this little clip is the MOST interesting....

     

    "The morning began with the Motor Press Guild Keynote address given this year by Bernd Pischetsrieder, Chairman of Volkswagen. Mr. Pischetsrieder’s started out by saying that in his opinion the hydrogen economy was not a realistic solution to air pollution concerns. He also stated that having multiple alternative fuels is not good because it is not feasible for drivers to have to hunt around for different fuel sources such as CNG, Ethanol or Bio-diesel.

     

    He put forward the idea that we must look to existing infrastructure to provide the solution which he suggests will be the use of synthetic fuels made from Bio sources like soy beans, or by using the gas normally burned off from oil wells in a gas to liquid fuel process.

     

    He proposed diesel engines running on these synthetic fuels as the solution to CO2 reduction. Currently VW diesel engines don’t meet the strict California emissions standards but VW is committed to meeting the strict new standards taking effect in 2007.

     

    Mr. Pischetsrieder also said that VW are working on a Diesel Hybrid but didn’t give any timeframe for when this might be available to the public. He also said that they were working on an engine that behaved like a diesel at low revs and like a gas engine at higher revs, combining the best qualities of the diesel and the gas engine."

     

    The whole story is here:

     

    http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=article&storyid=796
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    "that VW are working on a Diesel Hybrid but didn’t give any timeframe"

     

    Nice announcement but no time frame? Dont hold your breath too long!!
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    " That said, some carmakers have begun to equip their cars with particulate filters, notably PSA Peugeot Citroen. Together with two British firms, Ricardo and QinetiQ, the company is building a diesel-hybrid based on the family-sized Citroen Berlingo. The aim is to achieve a combined fuel economy of 70 miles per gallon with carbon-dioxide emissions of only 90 grams per kilometre. (In comparison, the Prius delivers 55 miles per gallon with carbon-dioxide emissions of 104 grams per kilometre.)"

     

    entire article here:

     

    http://www.mixedpower.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&- amp;sid=277
  • VW is a strange company.

     

    - on one hand they are producing a 2007 diesel car capable of 120 miles per gallon + a hybrid prototype

     

    - on the other hand, they are trying to build 200 hp diesel engines for more power (and therefore more fuel burned) for their Jettas

     

    They are both economizing & splurging at the same time. (puzzled look)

     

    troy
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    The V10 Diesel Tourareg: A contradiction--Big fuel consumption with diesel to economize!
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    "Citroen Berlingo. The aim is to achieve a combined fuel economy of 70 miles per gallon with carbon-dioxide emissions of only 90 grams per kilometre. (In comparison, the Prius delivers 55 miles per gallon with carbon-dioxide emissions of 104 grams per kilometre"

     

    Yeah this sounds impressive too! I just wish the Europeans were not such late learners, unlike Toyota and Honda. Oh well only time will tell if these European endeaveors will provide a serious challenge to the Japanese.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,224
    The V10 Diesel Tourareg: A contradiction--Big fuel consumption with diesel to economize!

     

    I think that package was built for one reason to win some cross country races. I believe they got a 3rd & 5th place in the Dakar race ended last week. That car will give the Porsche Cayenne V8 turbo a run for the money.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,241
    The V10 Diesel Touareg: A contradiction--Big fuel consumption with diesel to economize!

     

    I dunno, what I see is better performance and better fuel economy. Could apply to most any vehicle. And higher power engines don't necessarily mean higher fuel consumption. I've added about 25hp to my TDI and have no decrease in consumption. Many of the new diesels coming to market (the '03 HO Cummins vs '02 HO Cummins) give more power and better fuel economy.

     

    When you can burn the fuel more efficiently, you gain both performance and economy.
  • "I just wish the Europeans were not such late learners, unlike Toyota and Honda."

     

    .

     

    You have it backwards. It was the Europeans who were first to market a 3 liter/100km (80mpg) car in 2000. And Europeans who will sell a 2 liter/100km (120mpg) car in 2007. Neither Toyota nor Honda have an equivalent.

     

    It's the Europeans who are ahead in fuel economy.

    troy
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    "It's the Europeans who are ahead in fuel economy"

     

    Fuel effient cars in Europe these past few decades are an easy sell because of the high gas prices. Here in Toronto Canada, I have a SMART dealership not far from where I live.

     

    Problem with those European vehicleswith high mileage is the lack of space and utility for drivers/passengers. It still is a TOUGH SELL in North America.
  • My point was not that.

     

    My point was to refute the false statement, "Europeans are behind the Japanese in fuel economy." That's not true.

     

    Europeans are AHEAD. Europeans already have an 80 mpg car with a 120 mpg car scheduled for 2007.

     

    troy
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