Honda Accord Diesel????

robertsmx

I'm not sure if the 7AT in GL320 has similar ratios as C350, and if it is, the 7-speed is really a gimmickery. One major advantage to 6AT over 5AT is gear span. There is no improvement going from 6AT to 7AT. All that MB really did was create an extra tall seventh, and sixth is actually pretty close to seventh (about 10%). I have heard about gear hunting in the C-class, and very likely, that is the reason. IMO, they could have just kept it a 6AT, with a slightly shorter top gear (somewhere between the current seventh and the current sixth).

But, the 7AT configuration might be helping MB's cause in EPA test cycles for higher rating, but becomes a nuisance on the road.

gagrice

I looked at a second GL320 CDI that a fellow drove down from Oregon to try and make a profit off the CA diesel starved buyers. It was a beauty in the color and leather I like. He showed me his fuel bills and calculations for the trip. He averaged 28.9 MPG on the trip down. Claimed he drove mostly 75 MPH which is about slow lane for Interstate 5 through the valley. He just said he was used to the down shifting on deceleration. You are probably correct on the EPA ratings having some bearing. I also think the Luxo builders like Lexus and MB are just playing one-ups-manship. I don't like a vehicle that down shifts when I am driving 70 MPH up interstate 8 on the long hills. My new Sequoia stays in 5th gear, The old Lexus LS400 stays in the top gear at 1800 RPM. Most 4 and 6 cylinder vehicles I have driven up that section drop down and scream up to 3500-4000 RPM. I hate that waste of gas.

nanorapture

I looked at a second GL320 CDI that a fellow drove down from Oregon to try and make a profit off the CA diesel starved buyers. It was a beauty in the color and leather I like. He showed me his fuel bills and calculations for the trip. He averaged 28.9 MPG on the trip down.

Thats good milage for a vehicle of that stature. I'm looking for something under 2 tons that gets over 40mpg combined.

From the way you were talking about those diesel vehicles I thought you were in Europe. It sounds like you're in California like me.

Just how much of a premium are California buyers willing to pay for the used diesels at minimum mileage to legally register in California? That sounds like an interesting market that will still be in existence a year from now just for those interesting european and 45 state diesel models such as the MB GL320 CDI. MB is also bringing the ML in diesel to the USA soon.

-Nano

gagrice

The MB dealer wanted $82k for a GL320 CDI that probably sold new for about $72k. The private party was asking $73k for his with 12k miles. I think I would rather have the ML320 CDI. They will get around 32 MPG out on the highway. They also have more leg room in the second row than the GL.

I would go out of state to find one and pay NO MORE than invoice. You can make a good deal on the R320 CDI if you like that configuration of 2+2+2 seating. They have never sold good and Mercedes dealers that have them will deal.

Waiting for the Pilot diesel would be more likely to get 40 MPG highway.

jaxs1

A lot of unrelated Mercedes talk in the Honda forum.

blane

Thanks ruking1. That was a very interesting DOE link.

ruking1

This might be hidden in plain sight, but the PERCENTAGE, (of a barrel of oil) volume and energy potential of DIESEL (there are several levels of component products) , (given the demand for RUG, and its PERCENTAGE of a barrel of oil) are some of the real reasons for its continued use.

I hope this is not vague but as long as there is a demand for RUG, DIESEL is a LARGE component (consequence) of RUG's production, and of course, vice versa. It would increase the price of RUG almost exponentially to get rid of diesel and its several levels of component products (IAW EPA etc regulations, etc etc)

The absolutely HUGE break through/s and up until now "holy grail" would be getting close to either 100% of a barrel of oil as RUG or DIESEL product. (indeed using unrefined oil) Next would be as close to 100% pure RUG or diesel from a barrel of oil.

As another example this whole process would be trumped by the ability to have a commercially viable engine whose fuel would be H2O (preferably the salted variety).

(if you believe of course or to a certain extent, even if one does not believe)H20 would be one of global warming's huge by-products (liquid, not ice). :lemon: Too bad the environmentalists are not working on melting some H20 in the Atlanta Georgia direction, I am told they could sure use a LOT! Given the theory, ya kind of wonder how the Sahara Desert (or any HUGE HUGE HUGE desert) was formed, prior to MAN itself and man's use of so called fossil fuel burning.

blane

ruking1,

You wrote "this whole process would be trumped by the ability to have a commercially viable engine whose fuel would be H2O (preferably the salted variety)" I presume that you've already seen and read of it, but this is intriguing, even though it may be snake oil.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=salt+water+fuel

You also wrote "Too bad the environmentalists are not working on melting some H20 in the Atlanta Georgia direction, I am told they could sure use a LOT! "

We shouldn't need the melting H20. Just several (newer, modern design) clean nuclear plants that, in addition to pouring non-fossil electricity into the national power grid, would power large scale seawater desalination plants on all seacoasts.

That way, we could have our Accord Diesel cake and eat it too.

ruking1

The funny thing on the so called "left coast" is a desalination plant is seen as environmentally "not good"

So would it be a reasonable expectation to locate one or to all closer to the middle of the continent, like IOWA!!???

moparbad

Iowa already has many decaliforniacation plants.



Makes me want to sing Grrrr

ruking1

Yes! It has been and continues to be seamless operating a diesel (for 4 years and 100,000 miles) in CA. When I think of it, there has been and probably will continue to be, a number of anomolies.

I swag CA will be the epicenter for the launch of Honda's 50 state diesel effort. Sort of that New Jersey natives song, if you can make it in New York City (aka CA in this analogy) you can make it anywhere. As it concerns Honda Diesels, Honda could be seen as taking advantage of its "GREEN" reputation in CA. The marketing lead in probably is the designer of the successful VTEC gasser, designed Honda's iCTDI, aka IDEC (or whatever it is or will be called) It is also well known Honda operates a design center in So CA and has a big presence in the state. (Toyota also)

I SWAG Honda's diesel entries will put it easily 3-7 years ahead of Toyota, which in the car business seems to be HUGE and an eternity. In the best/worst case, it will force Toyota into the diesel market segment, which IT says it never wanted to go.

ruking1

I also think Honda's diesel engine has the POTENTIALto under promise and OVER deliver in the MPG department for a significant (standard deviation) of customers. This will have surprise appeal to the deeper and subliminal value metric. The new EPA ratings are advantageous toward this; if my EPA 42/49 mpg Jetta TDI can be used as an example (less mpg under the new EPA ratings). The range has been 44 mpg to 62 mpg and taking no real fuel savings proceedures/protocols, other than to drive the diesel engine as it should be driven. Indeed if I drove the Honda gassers the way I drive the diesels, I swag I would lose 2-5 mpg off the normal 38-42 mpg I now get. So while I hope this explanation does not get too convoluted, If I drove the DIESEL the same as the gasser Honda, I know the mpg would be more like 59 mpg rather than 50 mpg (which is still REALLY good)

moparbad

I SWAG Honda's diesel entries will put it easily 3-7 years ahead of Toyota,

Honda Accord Diesel has the potential to motivate Toyota, Chrysler, GM and possibly Ford to market diesels in cars.
Provided it is a success.

Toyota already has D-4D diesel engine range that extends from Yaris size to LandCruiser size vehicles. D-4D engines are competitive with anything available and Isuzu is now collaborating to further improve Toyota diesels.

ruking1

Toyota & Honda has been in diesels world wide for a very long time. I am specifically referring to the USA market. If the Toyota diesel Landcruiser(for example) was available in the "USA", I would have had it almost 2 decades ago. It wasnt, and I still don't have one!

usbiodieselist

Honda has been selling its Accord Diesel since MY'04 to great acclaim only in Europe. Toyota likewise (named "Avensis" instead of "Avalon") since MY'05. Even Ford only sells its diesels (viable, tho' not as good as Honda's and Toyota's) in Europe only. In his mid-2007 CEO speech of July 18 or so, Mr. Fukui of Honda formally stated for the very first time that they would consider introducing their diesels in their own country -- although they've had to ramp up production for Europe in Swindon, UK due to improving sales for four years and running. The Honda 50-state emissions control system is still the only one that doesn't require regular recharging -- and it's the only one that's unmentioned in general discussions of clean diesels. It's not that hard to figure out.

firstinline

As soon as i read the articles about the Accord diesel I called my dealer to become the first in line for what is going to be the most desired car in the market. I drove the new Accord and was impressed with the amount of room but could not give up the mileage of my 2006 Civic EX. Now I hate to say it, but I am going to give up one of the best looking cars (the new Civic) for one that can only be described as average, for that ever more important mpg. Maybe in a few years they will put the diesel in an Acura and I can have it all... features, looks and mpg.

ruking1

My thought is if they put the Accord engine in the Civic it would be the ultimate "lower priced model" touring/commute etc. car!!! Yes, to me (extreme minority view) Honda really missed the boat by NOT putting a diesel in the Civic Model, since they already use a non Honda designed diesel engine. I am guessing they probably had to make a huge capital investment choice and it probably better sense (actually no brainer) to use the Honda designed diesel engine. This would of course make better margins and volumes to put it on a bread and butter line.

I also think that to put it on a Civic would literally cannibalize (gasser) Civic sales. On the Accord, it seems more likely to TAKE market share from Camry.

robertsmx

Honda has been using its own diesel in Civic in European market. The Isuzu 1.7 is long history.

But, the 2.2 isn't showing any benefit over Accord (yes, it is the same diesel in Civic as it is in Accord). But it sure has managed to push the curb weight up past 3000 lb (300+ lb heavier than gasoline powered Civic).

gagrice

That seems crazy unless you are pulling a trailer with your Civic. I wonder if they can build their own diesel that much cheaper than buying a more appropriate size for the Civic. It has to mess up the handling with 300 lbs extra weight in the front.

robertsmx

I think the idea was cost savings. Instead of developing a smaller block/engine for Civic, Honda stuffed the larger engine from Accord in it. It is actually Honda's only diesel engine, but offered in Accord, CR-V, FR-V and Civic.

I was expecting a smaller diesel this time around (for Jazz/Civic), but looks like that isn't happening. Instead, it will be 2.2 again, and later joined by the V6 (either 3.0 or 3.5) which clearly will be put in light trucks.

gagrice

Honda might be better off just keeping the IMA for the small vehicles and going diesel for the Accord and larger. If the Accord diesel can achieve 50 MPG, it will put a dent in the Civic hybrid sales. Not sure which will be the most cost effective for them to build.

ruking1

Since I don't think that you think that Honda can not design either with a 300# addition or take the steps to get scale a diesel that is indeed 300#s lighter, I am glad you agree with my assessment.

But who knows, when diesel catches on, that might open up the possibility of even more diesel options in more models.

vchowdry

I want one. When is due to be released. I needed new car yesterday, my present one is a 2000 and being held together with duct tape, wanted the accord but was going to get the Jetta, but now it is delayed.

So when is the accord coming?

nanorapture

The best we know at this point is that the new VW diesel will come to the USA in spring 2008 and the Honda Accord diesel will arrive in Sept. 2008. There is only about an 80% confidence level for me for the honda arriving in Sept. 2008. If not 2008, then certainly Sept. 2009.

The new VW diesels coming out ahead of the Hondas will be great incentive for Honda to bring the diesel to the USA as soon as is possible.

-Nano

blane

The Honda Diesels will not require the separate urea tank that the VWs and Mercedes will. One less thing to think about when filling up.

gagrice

The VW TDI does not have the urea tank last I read. Only V6 diesels will need urea.

nanorapture

Although i am really holding out to drive the Honda, I am really excited that I get to try out one of these new diesels in the VW TDI as soon as this spring.

The VW will really light the diesel fuse for those considering a diesel car, and will raise the overall awareness of diesel prior to the release of the Honda.

Its gonna be good.

{nano}

nedzel

The urea tank on the MB diesels is expected to last 15000 miles before needing to be filled. So it is something the dealer will take care of during oil changes. Not exactly a big deal...

jaxs1

It's something else raising maintenance costs and requiring a lengthy trip to the dealer for a simple oil change.

nedzel

jaxs1 -- you won't be changing your oil every3500 miles on these cars, and you'll probably want to take your car to the dealer (or service shop) once a year anyways. They'll top off the urea at that time.

vchowdry

VW has already stated they will have a delay do to emission issues. The TDI was due to go to production in 1/08 and start showing up in the US 30-60 days later. now it does not look to be going into production till the start of q3. If you search the net you will see the official release from VW

nanorapture

Well thanks for that information. It looks like that info has only been out a month or so now. VW says there was a problem with the emissions system, but the problem has been corrected. The delay is due to the fact that they now have to go through the Federal Emissions tests all over again before release.

So the Honda and VW diesels will be coming out at the same time, around September 2008. Hopefully.

{keep your fingers crossed}

-nano

zstabe

Any word on what percentage of biodiesel the Accord diesel will be able to run on?

gagrice

Welcome to the Forum!

The Honda should have no trouble running on B100 (100% biodiesel) Whether Honda will give you that ability without voiding your warranty is the question. Mercedes & VW only consider B5 acceptable. When pushed in Hawaii Mercedes did give clearance for the B100 produced by Pacific Biodiesel.

Here are a few downsides to biodiesel. It needs to be used when it is warmer than 40 degrees, or mixed with number one diesel (kerosene). Biodiesel is a wonderful solvent. If you have been running very dirty diesel as is the case in some parts of the USA, it can dislodge some of the particles that can plug up injectors. A clean filter is mandatory. There is a large community of people on Maui that use only B100 in their VW, diesel PUs and Mercedes. High quality biodiesel should run great in the Honda diesel. In most of the USA now you can buy B5 to B20 which should be fine year round.

Now if Honda gets their act together and gets their diesels approved for the US.

bhill2

Mercedes & VW only consider B5 acceptable. When pushed in Hawaii Mercedes did give clearance for the B100 produced by Pacific Biodiesel.

This is the way it will have to go. Makers of diesel cars are loath to cover the use of biodiesel because they don't want to be stuck with fixing damage caused by improperly made fuel. Some mechanism (like approving the uses of a specific company's product, as above) needs to be in place that assures the car maker that high-quality fuel is being used, but in turn covers the buyer in the case of an actual problem with the car.

gagrice

That is exactly right. I believe there is an SAE standard for biodiesel. Problem is with Guido picking up cans full of cooking oil from Wendy's may not adhere to that standard. Then he screams to Honda when his diesel engine croaks on poor biodiesel.

nanorapture

It is very interesting that these new diesel cars are opening the awareness and debate over the actual fuel the car uses.

That is one of my main issues with buying a diesel car. They use diesel fuel which is an unknown to us historic unleaded gas users. There are many issues with the diesel fuel itself in this case.

Will the increase in demand for diesel raise the price? How stable of a source of diesel fuel do I have in my town? will the price be more volatile than regular gasoline due to the limited production and limited demand?

The good part is that there is independently produced biodiesel available. This is a boon to the small scale biodiesel business and a great reason to have a diesel car.

I will need to keep current on my diesel fuel research to feel comfortable buying a diesel car.

-nano

ruking1

The information currently available is literally mind numbing.Needless to say the key is to look for "THAT" information that will put you at some kind of comfort level. Suffice to say it has been in use in Europe for a very long time. Fully 50% of the European passenger fleet is diesel. You can also rest assured that whatever Japanese and European models that reach our shores will in all likely hood have a corresponding WW diesel model. Indeed gassers have more sulfur than ULSD- 30 ppm vs 15 ppm. Math indicates RUG is 2x dirtier than ULSD.

nanorapture

thanks Ruk

You seem to be the diesel fuel illuminati, at least in this forum. Thanks for those previous links on diesel fuel you posted here.

I have done a ton of research on diesel fuel already.

But the true unknowns regarding diesel fuel aren't revealed on a tech site or by reasonable research on diesel fuel. The true unknowns are the volatility in the availability and price of diesel fuel.

Once we have even 10% of the U.S. passenger cars using diesel fuel, we will be in a better position to be secure in our knowledge that the fuel will be there when we need it, and for a reasonable price.

-nano

Europe is 50% diesel cars, so they don't have to worry about being a first adopter like we do here in the U.S. I know there is a lot of diesel fuel used here in the U.S., but this new demand due to the new cars may cause a whole series of events that could make diesel not-so-desireable. Also, these new cars are a whole new market for diesel fuel, so there may be some kind of spike in demand, or a manipulative price gouging of sorts by the producers. I certainly don't put that past them!

ruking1

"Once we have even 10% of the U.S. passenger cars using diesel fuel, we will be in a better position to be secure in our knowledge that the fuel will be there when we need it, and for a reasonable price. "

I know this might be hard for gasser consumers ( you) to fathom, but you can get diesel fuel just about ANYWHERE!! Is it at EVERY station? NO!! Current figures indicate a 25% saturation. for a less than 3% population.

As a practical matter, I have NEVER in +100,000 miles had to ever wait at a diesel pump to get diesel fuel. Indeed I only need to wait for those gassers blocking an empty diesel pump to move! (They do not take too kindly to me going into the pump area perpendicularly) I have done this a few times with the approval of those folks that I would seemingly have "cut in front of " Another thing is you do not have to fuel as often as you are able to go farther/longer. Here is a real life example: 1.8T, 2.0 VW Jetta 29 mpg vs Jetta TDI 50 mpg/100,000 miles (fill between 10/13 gals= ranges of 3448/2000gals= 345/265 stops to 200/154 stops. Contrast this with the number of times having to wait for RUG!!! Also while I am sure trucks stops will receive this with mixed feelings, you can also stop at diesel truck stops.

blane

"The true unknowns are the volatility in the availability and price of diesel fuel."

For the past year that I've paid attention to it, the price of Diesel fuel here in the northern suburbs of the NY Metropolitan area, has consistantly been 25 to 50 cents more per gallon than regular unleaded gasoline. That bodes not well for once the demand starts to rise.

nanorapture

Ruk

I know that Diesel #2 is very available. In fact, I have D#2 and B99 available at my usual gas station.

What I am concerned about is the national, large-scale, wholistic supply-demand scenario for diesel. With the advent of so many passenger cars on diesel, I could see the demand spike suddenly, and suppliers gouging due to the high demand. The suppliers will use any excuse to raise prices.

I am concerned about the global market in oil, and how volatile oil prices could be in the future.

Have a look at this website:

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

Its obvious that every time the prices go way up drastically, such as last summer, the prices go way up, then people complain, the price slowly goes down, the people forget about the high prices and then the prices once again slowly rise above the previous threshold without much notice or comment from the public. That is the way gas prices are right now. It is like they get us used to paying the high prices, and then lower them to set our mind at ease and we forget that gas is expensive, then just when we put it out of our minds they raise the prices up again to high levels. it always seems to work for them.

Here in California the price of gas is as high as it was last summer when everybody was complaining and it was headline news. Now the price is as high as ever before, but there is no mention of it in the news. The price will stay high forever from here on out, because that is the way it always seems to work.

I have been tracking the price of diesel and it is up to $3.60 now, and RUG is about $3.25 to $3.30. That is actually a lower differential than I saw in summer. Diesel is usually higher in winter relative to RUG because diesel can be used as heating fuel.

The higher price of diesel (at least at the current price differential) still allows for diesel cars to be more cost efficient than gassers because of the higher energy density of diesel fuel, and the higher efficiency of the diesel engine. The cost tradeoff is the higher initial capitalization cost for a diesel car relative to a gasser car.

-nano

ruking1

There are many ways to answer your questions and respond to your statements, even in the context of a seemingly very focused topic. So I think if you go back into the past (diesel) posts on this topic, you might see that the so called diesel fuel spike you are describing would be artificial at best. Keep in mind (to address your concern) that it took easily 30 years for the passenger vehicle fleet population to reach LESS than 3% of the vehicle fleet population. So an AVERAGE year to year growth rate .03%/30 years=.001 percent per year growth rate!!. There are also a few anomolies the anti diesel folks seems to want to ignore or wish didn't pop into reality. So all you really need to know is what % of app 16/17 M yearly new passenger vehicle fleet sales will diesels be and the percentage growth rate or % of diesel passenger vehicle fleet would cause you to worry. On the other hand what all this really means is how many diesel pumps will EXISTING stations ADD/convert to service this new market segment. So on a macro level, a nit.

nanorapture

Ruk

The math should be 3%/30 = 0.1% or one tenth of one percent growth of diesel cars per year. The problem with using this low number for the growth is that presently there are so few diesel cars available for purchase. No cars available for sale = slow growth.

The problem the way i see it is that there are so few diesel cars on the road now because there are really none available to buy. The old diesel VW's are probably fading away in numbers briskly now.

Considering that the new VW's and Hondas will be the first MAINSTREAM diesel cars to really flood the market in quite a while, and the low numbers of diesels on the road presently, it seems to me it would be very easy to DOUBLE the amount of diesel passenger cars on the road in just a couple of years. Especially since these new diesel cars have so few negative aspects to them in contrast to the old noisy, smelly diesels. The new diesels will sell well because they have more advantages than disadvantages, IMHO.

That is my view of the possible near-term spike in diesel fuel demand. there will be a lot more diesel cars on the road a lot sooner than a lot of people think. I think the 0.1% growth per year in diesel cars will grow exponentially when these new cars come out. It seems to me the growth rate for diesel passenger cars once these new cars come out will be more like 5%-10% per year, because there are so few cars on the road now, and there will be a lot more diesel cars very soon.

That spike in diesel passenger cars could cause a short term spike in demand on diesel fuel, or at least make for lines at your diesel pump very soon.

Does this make any sense?

-nano

ruking1

.001 is still 1/10th of 1 percent. It just is easier to plug in the number. However I will agree it is probably easier to talk of LESS than 1/10 of one percent. So one question is what is 1/10 of 1 percent of 16/17 M yearly new passenger vehicle fleet? To address your concerns, how long will that figure take to say be 12% (population of SUV's) of a passenger vehicle fleet of 235.4 M ? (current registered figures)

The gate keeper is again the yearly entry percentage of diesels (% of 16/17M yearly new cars sales) , which will truly govern how fast the diesels% & Vol will grow. So really your job is to put some numbers to it, as you hold the concern.

My concern is completely the opposite. It is based on this assumption:

IF we indeed (as the environmentalists, etc. etc. say that we do) have a consumption issue

THEN why would we NOT want 35 mph and UP (diesel, gasser and otherwise) hitting the passenger vehicle fleet literally YESTERDAY!!?? And do it cheaper easier, etc, etc,.

Or to put it more succinctly, cut the consumption 40 to 60%!!???

If the recent forward looking 2020 35 mpg legislation is a bellweather, it literally guarantees the defacto 22 mpg (gasser) STANDARD for a min of 12 years and well into another 12 years for a total of 24 years.!!!??? In addition it defacto excludes (new)diesel use which in and of itself is LESS consumptive!! Along with current regulations, it EFFECTIVELY keeps out cars like the European marketed VW POLO which actually does get 62 mpg!!! Suffice to say, diesels are scheduled to grow VERY VERY VERY slowly in lieu of REAL numbers and PERCENTAGES. The reason why those real numbers and %'s are lacking is that it makes it impossible (logically) to calculate how SLOWLY it is really scheduled to grow. On the flip side this overwhelmingly indicates continued RUG/PUG use in vol and percentages

nanorapture

i just want to clarify that when i talk about a 5%-10% growth and the doubling of diesel cars on the road, i am just talking about diesel pasenger cars and their growth. i.e. NOT a 5%-10% growth of diesel cars relative to the number of all cars, but rather a 5%-10% growth in the diesel passenger car segment only.

in other words i am saying there will be a growth of 5% -10% per year of people using the Diesel #2 or biodiesel pumps at your gas station. I see this as the long-term growth.

Initially, a big glut of new diesel cars on the road could come close to doubling the number of diesel pasenger cars being driven in the U. S., and hence doubling the passenger car demand for diesel, and doubling the likelihood of someone being at your diesel pump when you pull into the gas station.

Numbers aside, there will certainly be a large growth in the diesel pasenger car segement in the next few years.

-nano

ruking1

Even more SNOOZE ville!! That would be a correction of VERY VERY VERY slowly to Very very very x 2. Again, if, the passenger vehicle fleet is 235.4 M and the diesel population is LESS than 3% then, diesels are LESS than 7.062 M * 5/10%=less than 353,100-706,200 diesel vehicles per year, aka 80 years to 40 years!!! Both figures even longer than the growth for the SUV's to 12%!!

My take is your 5/10% growth over the existing diesel population is AGGRESSIVE. My take is it will be lucky to be HALF that!! This would usher in the RIP VAN WINKLE effect or 160 years to 80 years.

Keep in mind that like model diesels see less trips to the fuel stations also. Easy example Jetta gasser (29) vs TDI (49) 14.5 gal fuel tank, 10-13 gal fills over 100,000 miles. 100,000 miles/29-49= 3448 gals-2040 gals/ 10-13 gals=

345 to 265 GASSER fuel stops vs 204 to 157 DIESEL fuel stops!!??

redvw

Can anyone estimate the increase in price for a accord with diesel engine over a gasoline accord?

nedzel

A guess would be $1000 to $3000 for the engine. However, given the way car makers mix up the packages, it may be much more difficult to do an apples-to-apples comparison when it finally arrives.

ruking1

While that might seem like a wide range, or not really a good SWAG, one needs to look at model lines, i.e., Accord, to see REALLY how WIDE a range, or how much the prices of a Honda "Accord" REALLY does vary. Just the Honda Accord PLATFORM ALONE (the platform is used in other variants) 12 separate and distinct categories. From lowest to highest the variance is app $8,700. MSRP. So in the scope of the variance, a diesel could actually cost less than a gasser.