Don't hold your breath. I have wanted a small diesel PU truck since 1998. So far no company has brought one to the USA. VW is the only company that has been able to pass all the emissions to sell in all 50 states with a mid priced vehicle. Mercedes and BMW have passed the tests and will offer several pricey diesel rigs this year in all the states.
Right now Subaru's diesel is only at the 43-state emissions compliance level, and apparently they are holding off spending the money to bring it to a 50-state standard.
So your predictions will probably prove to be uncannily accurate gagrice - all the much-vaunted and well-advertised forays into diesel by the Japanese companies will come to naught, at least before 2010. And that's too bad. :-(
Word on the TSX is that they will now put a V-6 in instead of the diesel that failed certification with the automatic. You know, the manual passed - wouldn't it be cool if they sold TSX and Accord diesel manuals while they improved the emissions of the automatics?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I just read that. Does Honda think because gas prices are back down that we want another gas guzzling V6? I realize that is the only way they can get the torque of a 4 cylinder diesel. Maybe they should try a little harder instead of making excuses. Oh well I would not have been interested in anything smaller than a Pilot diesel anyway.
I wonder why Honda used the 5AT instead of the 6AT? They could play with the gear ratios to get the same ranges as the 6MT. How far off was the 5AT version? One wonders why they would send a car for certification that wouldn't pass. When a car fails certification, do they get additional attempts or do they have to wait for next year?
One wonders why they would send a car for certification that wouldn't pass. When a car fails certification
I wondered the same thing. They have all the test criteria. In fact they may have even done the testing. It is all pretty hushed up by Honda. I think it could be the exchange rate or any number of excuses.
My question now is what is Honda going to put in the "Camry and Altima" market segment? Their last attempt at a hybrid didn't pay attention to why people buy hybrid cars i.e. high mileage... .
OTOH, I don't understand how their 2.4L engine only gets 1-2 better MPG than the six which is a liter larger in displacement, but I'm getting off topic...
In the real world, most people are seeing much more than 1-2 mpg difference between 4 and 6 if they do much city driving. On the highway, it may not be much difference.
Seeing as the 4 cyl is giving up aboutt a liter of displacement to the 6 cyl engine, I'm not sure why you wouldn't see a greater difference. Could this be weight related i.e. you have to expend x number of horsepower to push y number of pounds and the 4 works pretty hard to do that while the 6 does not?
Anyone know how "dead" this project is? Is Honda going to develop further and bring this out in 2010+ or did Honda completely pull the plug on the diesel?
If I recall correctly this is dead. It seems the automatic diesel did not pass 50 state emmissions so they pulled the plug. The stick shift did, but they won't bother for such small numbers. Too bad - I would have snagged a stick with the diesel.
Dead as a door nail. Honda says it flunked the U.S. emissions test. However, they have redone the engine to make 170 hp and 280 ft. lbs. of torque. Maybe Honda will try it again,
Consumer Guide Automotive said that 2010 Honda CRV may have a 2.2 liter diesel.
Vehicle Highlights The 2010 Honda CR-V may receive a diesel engine. This five-passenger compact SUV should continue to be available with front-wheel drive or all-wheel drive. Trim levels should include LX, EX, and top-line EX-L with leather upholstery. All should have a 166-hp 2.4-liter 4-cylinder engine and a 5-speed automatic transmission. A new 2.2-liter diesel 4-cylinder would make 138 hp. Maximum towing capacity should be 1500 lb with the gasoline engine. Available safety features should include ABS, traction control, antiskid system, curtain side airbags, and front side airbags. A power driver seat and dual-zone automatic climate control should be standard on EX-L. A navigation system would also likely remain available on EX-L. Versions so equipped will be priced as separate models. This report is based on evaluations of the 2009 Honda CR-V.
That's old news. Honda put the diesel on hold. The new news is that the 2.2 now make 30 more horsepower and 20 more ft. pounds of torque. The newest news,is that Honda put the diesel on hold for business reasons: Not becuase it could not comply w/EPA as Honda originally stated. Which means: We may see a better Honda diesel in the distant future,
The 2.2 TDi engine had so much potential I was hoping that Honda might go back and re-engineer the emissions. It I may turn on the "Way Back" machine, I remember Honda using the stratified charge CVCC engines without catalytic converters but then was forced to go add them when the emissions laws made it impossible for them to pass without them. I wonder if this is a similar situation, instead this time needing to incorporate other technologies such as urea injection (I wonder if their 2 step cataytic converter system, while cool technology, just couldn't get things clean enough. OTOH, I'm sure I'm greatly oversimplifying this whole thing.
IMHO, we are seeing the effect of electing Mr. Obama -- they handed emissions controls to the states so instead of having one really good standard to run to, we can now have 50 different standards for the automakers to conform to. Just the thing automakers on the edge of bankrupcy need...
So what is Honda going to do for a high mileage option for the Accord line? Might they go for a new hybrid drivetrain with a smaller 4 and electric assist?
Obama was not in office when Honda killed the diesel.
Emissions are still federal, but states can choose to have higher standards _ like California et all.
States have always had control over enforcing emissions. In SD there are no emissions inspections at all. No safety inspections either for that matter. In fact I don't have a single sticker on my windshield.
That sounds kind of dumb. There hybrids are not all that great. The Accord was a total flop. They could not give the old Insight away. The Civic is only marginally successful. With Toyota matching the price of the new Honda Insight who will buy it over the proven Prius? I think Honda is losing their edge. They have increasingly lost out and missed the mark. They should have stuck with diesels at least for their large vehicles.
Just put the 2.2 diesel in the Civic,CRV,and Accord and Honda meets the 35 mpg regs for those cars. No muss;No fuss. That's why I think we still may have a second chance at the Honda Diesel. Fingers crossed.
I agree. Mercedes just introduced the E250 with a 2.2 liter diesel at the NY auto show. If they can do it, why can't Honda? If the E250 comes to the U.S., it's on my short list when my 08 V6 is up for replacement in 2011.
I agree with that ... I saw that in the NY Times' coverage of the auto show and read about that. I'd wait it out as well. If Honda doesn't come around to reconsider the diesel, Honda will not be considered by me ;o)
From what I read the stickshift passed EPA and the Auto didn't. They should have just brought the stick over until the auto was ready. Could test the waters that way. Honda (and others) have had stick only in some sporty and/or niche vehicles. (Si, first Insight etc.)
Even if they didn't sell a bunch they could have still beaten their chest about having such an efficient large car available (should beat Camry Hybrid - especially on the road). It certainly would have been as popular as the ill conceived Accord Hybrid
Don't you just love how the EPA is contributing to our dependence on foreign oil by blocking a car that would easily double my current fuel economy? It's just irritating.
Don't you just love how the EPA is contributing to our dependence on foreign oil by blocking a car that would easily double my current fuel economy? It's just irritating.
Tell me about it. And the irony is that diesels turn out less CO than gas engines, but they get no credit for that from the EPA.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
Yes isn't it great ..lol Just think on the diesel level and the new calif .regs ..they are not concerened about the emmissions! ONLY THE YEAR OF ENGINE. when told we can meet the 2007 emissions with a 1995 manual motor cat, california board of air quality told us we "are not concerned at this time and only interested in the year model!This is a good example of costing the trucking industry millions! We have produced a unit that is designed strickly for class 8 trucks and gains 20 -25 % in fuel mileage !
Tells us about California ... the state that had to print IOU's to pay its debt(s)! What arrogance now to try to mandate exhaust emissions stardards for the rest of the country ... from a state that can't afford to pay its own debts!
from a state that can't afford to pay its own debts!
I would hate to see this turn into a political debate. But the bullies that run this state have stomped on so many freedoms that the Honda diesel is just minute compared to all the rest. So don't get me started on the Soviet Socialist Republic of California as so many disgruntled residents like to call it.
From my observations, most of the CR-V's here in UK are 2.2 i-CTDi diesels. 138bhp/251lbft seems to work pretty well. Same engine appears in the Civic, (and the now-defunct FR-V), but the Accord gets the 2.2 i-DTEC with 148bhp/258lbft.
If you're not familiar with it, the FR-V was a 6 seat 5-door hatch/SUV similar in size to the CR-V; just a little narrower; 2 rows of "smart" 3-abreast seats and lots of kit..............it just didn't sell too well, hence it was killed off.
Honda is starting to lose my respect. Dropping the diesel and adding guzzlers like the new crossovers are really hurting them in my eyes.
A diesel Accord wagon would be an absolute segment buster. More interior space than most SUV's with better mpg than a Civic. All without clumsy SUV handling and braking. No brainer to me - just don't get how hardly anybody else sees this.
I agree. Like how could they release the Crosstour and not make a 4-cylinder engine available? It is V-6 only! Venza has a 4-cylinder, Outback has a 4-cylinder. Honda is barely trying these days....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Even the next generation Sienna minivan will have an available 4-cyl engine.
Honda is not alone though. Mazda was pretty boneheaded with the 6 wagon only having a V-6. It was about the perfect vehicle for me but I did not consider it because the mpg was worse than my wifes V-6 minivan. Wound up with an Accord I-4 stick that has averaged 34.5 mpg over 76,000 miles (yes I figure every tank). A diesel wagon would be better than my vehicle in just about every way.
Lets see the innovation from the CVCC days Honda. Bring us a diesel and drop the overweight barges.
I have a sheet with lease info and I wonder if anyone could tell me if this is a good deal or not....I can leave my email and send it as an attachment - but the info is below: smcc@polarcomm.com
I think I should ask/negotiate for invoice for selling price, right now it is the MSRP.
Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks, John
selling price (actually MSRP) 22730 acq & cap fees 864 trade allowance 2700 cash cap reduction 1277.44 Net Cap cost 20186.68 MSRP 22730 residual 58% lease end value 13183.40 money fact sell rate 0.00084 1st payment 222.56 amount due at start 1500 customer cash 1500 tax [window] 570.12
This is a discussion about the potential for a diesel version of the Accord. I see you've posted in our lease questions discussion, so please check for responses there.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Comments
I'll investigate the Subaru for my next vehicle. :P
Don't hold your breath. I have wanted a small diesel PU truck since 1998. So far no company has brought one to the USA. VW is the only company that has been able to pass all the emissions to sell in all 50 states with a mid priced vehicle. Mercedes and BMW have passed the tests and will offer several pricey diesel rigs this year in all the states.
So your predictions will probably prove to be uncannily accurate gagrice - all the much-vaunted and well-advertised forays into diesel by the Japanese companies will come to naught, at least before 2010. And that's too bad. :-(
Word on the TSX is that they will now put a V-6 in instead of the diesel that failed certification with the automatic. You know, the manual passed - wouldn't it be cool if they sold TSX and Accord diesel manuals while they improved the emissions of the automatics?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I just read that. Does Honda think because gas prices are back down that we want another gas guzzling V6? I realize that is the only way they can get the torque of a 4 cylinder diesel. Maybe they should try a little harder instead of making excuses. Oh well I would not have been interested in anything smaller than a Pilot diesel anyway.
I wondered the same thing. They have all the test criteria. In fact they may have even done the testing. It is all pretty hushed up by Honda. I think it could be the exchange rate or any number of excuses.
OTOH, I don't understand how their 2.4L engine only gets 1-2 better MPG than the six which is a liter larger in displacement, but I'm getting off topic...
Vehicle Highlights
The 2010 Honda CR-V may receive a diesel engine. This five-passenger compact SUV should continue to be available with front-wheel drive or all-wheel drive. Trim levels should include LX, EX, and top-line EX-L with leather upholstery. All should have a 166-hp 2.4-liter 4-cylinder engine and a 5-speed automatic transmission. A new 2.2-liter diesel 4-cylinder would make 138 hp. Maximum towing capacity should be 1500 lb with the gasoline engine. Available safety features should include ABS, traction control, antiskid system, curtain side airbags, and front side airbags. A power driver seat and dual-zone automatic climate control should be standard on EX-L. A navigation system would also likely remain available on EX-L. Versions so equipped will be priced as separate models. This report is based on evaluations of the 2009 Honda CR-V.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
IMHO, we are seeing the effect of electing Mr. Obama -- they handed emissions controls to the states so instead of having one really good standard to run to, we can now have 50 different standards for the automakers to conform to. Just the thing automakers on the edge of bankrupcy need...
Emissions are still federal, but states can choose to have higher standards _ like California et all.
States have always had control over enforcing emissions. In SD there are no emissions inspections at all. No safety inspections either for that matter. In fact I don't have a single sticker on my windshield.
Even if they didn't sell a bunch they could have still beaten their chest about having such an efficient large car available (should beat Camry Hybrid - especially on the road). It certainly would have been as popular as the ill conceived Accord Hybrid
Tell me about it. And the irony is that diesels turn out less CO than gas engines, but they get no credit for that from the EPA.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
I would hate to see this turn into a political debate. But the bullies that run this state have stomped on so many freedoms that the Honda diesel is just minute compared to all the rest. So don't get me started on the Soviet Socialist Republic of California as so many disgruntled residents like to call it.
If you're not familiar with it, the FR-V was a 6 seat 5-door hatch/SUV similar in size to the CR-V; just a little narrower; 2 rows of "smart" 3-abreast seats and lots of kit..............it just didn't sell too well, hence it was killed off.
A diesel Accord wagon would be an absolute segment buster. More interior space than most SUV's with better mpg than a Civic. All without clumsy SUV handling and braking. No brainer to me - just don't get how hardly anybody else sees this.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Honda is not alone though. Mazda was pretty boneheaded with the 6 wagon only having a V-6. It was about the perfect vehicle for me but I did not consider it because the mpg was worse than my wifes V-6 minivan. Wound up with an Accord I-4 stick that has averaged 34.5 mpg over 76,000 miles (yes I figure every tank). A diesel wagon would be better than my vehicle in just about every way.
Lets see the innovation from the CVCC days Honda. Bring us a diesel and drop the overweight barges.
I think I should ask/negotiate for invoice for selling price, right now it is the MSRP.
Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks, John
selling price (actually MSRP) 22730
acq & cap fees 864
trade allowance 2700
cash cap reduction 1277.44
Net Cap cost 20186.68
MSRP 22730
residual 58%
lease end value 13183.40
money fact sell rate 0.00084
1st payment 222.56
amount due at start 1500
customer cash 1500
tax [window] 570.12
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle