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Comments
I haven't had significant driving problems associated with visibility. The read headrests are large but there is enough clearance for a good view.
The other mentioned area (between the windshield and the driver/passenger window) does cause any problems either.
The odor problem is a different story. As far as I know there is not a definitive fix for the issue, although GM has been working very deligently on it. The odor issue did cause me visibility problems though. Some days ago there were some rainy periods (and temperatures around 35-40oF) and I was not able to defog the windows properly. When I directed the air flow to the windshield the car automatically disabled the air recirculation switch. As a consequence, the odor would invade the cabin as soon as I stopped at a traffic light.
My previous note has three typos:
1. Instead of "read" in "The read headrests are large but there is enough clearance for a good view." please read "rear" instead.
2. There should be a "not" after the "does", and the correct statement is: "The other mentioned area (between the windshield and the driver/passenger window) does NOT cause any problems either."
3. The last one is just a spelling problem: instead of "deligently" please read "diligently".
Sorry for the confusion.
I received the following from my source at GM this morning.
"Got an answer from the Engineer.... There are 2 separate issues, black coolant and odor.
The black coolant is a reaction with the coolant and the sealant pellet material, which when mixed tends to pull carbon from the hoses and looks bad. Flushing the coolant system and not adding the pellets could fix that problem.
The odor is a more complex interaction between the coolant and hoses. GM has another hose material, but is not available yet for service parts. Maybe in another 2 weeks."
I'll keep you posted if anything new should arise.
Scrappy
Unfortunately no surprises there. My Equinox behaved exactly the same way after two flushes.
Is the green coolant and older type of DEXCOOL or something else?
Would you happen to have the initials of the engineer you talked to, as deal with alot of those folks on a daily basis... As am in the same boat with the equinox, except its been a week since flushing mine, and the smell hasnt seemed to have returned yet with the same intensity.
thanks...
Sorry,I don't know the engineers name. I got the info indirectly thru a friend.
Scrappy
I only asked the question because I know GM is very particular about the use of DEXCOOL. You may ask your dealer if the use of a different coolant will not void your warranty.
This is a known and documented problem. GM and their Tech Line are both well aware of the issue.
I don't know why different dealers tell all different stories. They make GM look bad.
Later,
Scrappy
Apparenlty GM is not aware that the Internet exists and people do communicate much better nowadays.
GM is fully aware of the problem and the issue now seems to be how this has been communicated to the dealers. It is obvious that no consistent information has been provided to the dealers and this confuses the customers.
When I first spoke to my dealer they told me they don't go on the internet. I told them they should as they might learn something.
Also I see dealers are still telling customers that the problem is bacteria caused by use of a different coolant in these vehicles. Both, which we now know, are not true.
I just wrote a letter this morning and shot it off to both GM Corporate and to Chevrolet Division basically telling them of my total dissatisfaction with the handling of this issue.
Later,
Scrappy
I would think trying the old style coolant (green antifreeze) would be worth a shot, and if done properly (flushing), should not void the warranty.
I was wondering, do all of you who have had this trouble live in the same climate? Maybe it's a temperature/humidity thing. I'm in the old northwest territory and haven't seen the problem.
i bought the first nox in wyoming and have 7000 miles now. only recently have i noticed the faint nasty smell and checked the coolant only to find that indeed mine is black. you WILL begin to see complaints about this issue-it's only a matter of time.
by the way, there IS a service bulletin, number 1552234. if this wasn't an issue, it wouldn't be happening to MOST nox owners.
Since this is an odd case, a call to the RSM could be made to approve the change in coolant with no harm to the warranty.
I have seen this done.
I check this forum to find information to help my customers and I try to help posters to this forum when I can.
I appreciate your proactive approach of browsing the internet to better serve your customers. Let me summarize my case:
I bought an Equinox in April. By May 25th the dealer had tried everything (including calls to GM) and the odor problem could not be resolved. I requested a vehicle replacement, and GM agreed to do so.
On September 2nd I finally received the replacement vehicle (another Equinox LT). One week later the same bad odor started to develop. The odor got so bad that the vehicle was almost impossible to drive.
The engine coolant was changed twice (plus a two-stage flush before the first change) to no avail.
On October 28th GM repurchased my second Equinox, this time giving me a full refund.
I live in Michigan. The first problem started in the spring. The second later in the summer. I have seen different reports from all parts of the country describing exactly the same problem. This is NOT weather-related.
I gave up and currently drive a Nissan Murano.
I am also glad to see someone like you checking these sites out. According to my source the Tech Line should now have information on this issue. GM had an engineer that had this as his only responsiblity so it is a real problem and I think you will eventually see some in your shop. Oddly enough it doesn't happen to all Equinox's. Anyway the engineer found an issue with the material being used to manufacture the hose sets. Issue 1: The coolant changes to a dark color because the dexcool/sealant pellets combination is drawing excessive carbon from the hoses. Flushing the system and not adding pellets is supposed to cure that. Issue 2: The smell is a complex chemical reaction between the dexcool and the hose material. Hose sets manufactured from a different material is supposed to solve that.
This is where the problem comes in. There are none of the hose sets available that are made from the new material and there won't be for at least another 2 weeks. Tech Line is telling dealers that they are aware of the issue and to do nothing while they await the solution. What they are really waiting for are the service parts.
At this point there is no TSB on the issue. Meanwhile, in my case, the car is undrivable because of the fumes in the cabin (GM owes me $120 so far towards my payment for non-use). So, because of the big fuss I was making our district rep has told my service mgr to replace some hoses (not sure which or if it's all of them)and the overflow tank and flush the system. The hoses they use will obviously not be of the new material but what they are doing has been tried on a few others and seems to have worked. It will at least make the car usable until the new hose sets are available.
Another good site is EquinoxOwnersClub.com
Any particular dealer that you dealt with for getting the refund for your vehicle, as unfortuneately I am having the same issues you are describing. I am also from michigan in the greater detroit area. Did you primarily deal with GM customer support before going to the dealer. Also is there an email address I can correspond with you directly with, as sounds like I have the same exact issues you are having, but the issue with smell I believe is that the coolant keeps burping due to high pressures, ie a certrain gasket leaking. Let me know of an address I can correspond directly with.
Thanks,
Steve
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/
Maybe the more there are the better chance we have of being noticed.
You can file on-line using the Web Forms.
Although you started your message with "mitzij" I have the impression you were trying to contact me (Michigan99).
My situation involving two Equinoxes was totally handled directly by the dealer. They contacted the GM district sales manager and got the ball rolling for the repurchase process.
If you prefer to send me emails directly, please send them to inutil99@comcast.net
Ed
Please help
It sounds like we are all having the same odor problem with the Equinox. It also sounds like some of us are floundering trying to get the dealerships or find some way for GM to replace our vehicles, while others have had some success.
For those of you that have had your cars replaced, please post a message stating who you contacted at GM (by name, address and phone number) to get another car. Then, let's all deluge the same people with letters about the odor problem. We can also all send letters to the same agencies (i.e., consumer reports, etc).
Anyone interested in banding together as a group voice please post a message stating that you want to participate in a group response.
I posted a message suggesting we all band together as one voice and diluge the same contacts all at the same time regarding the odor problem.
Phase One:
Let's all E-Mail, Call and Write Chevrolet:
Go to chevrolet.com
Click on Contact Us at bottom right of screen
Click on Email Us and do that
Click on Telephone then call the number
Click on Mail and send them a CERTIFIED letter
Phase Two: Go to www.nhtsa.gov/hotline/
This is the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration - US Dept of Transporation in Wash, DC website. Let's all:
File a complaint /Safety Defect Report via the web report option.
Then, call them by phone at 888-327-4236 8AM-10PM ET.
Then Mail a CERTIFIED complaint letter to:
US Department of Transportation
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
Office of Defects Investigation
NSA-10.01 400 7th Street, SW
Washington, DC 20590
All complaints are entered in a database to determine trends. Government engineers then analyze the problem and contact the manufacuturer.
They already have 4 complaints on file out of 14 total complaints for the Equinox. The Complaint numbers (ODI ID #) are 10098303, 10098421, 10098430 and 10098777 if you want to search them by ID number and/or reference them in your letter.
Let's target completion of Phases One and Two by November 26, 2004. Do it as soon as you can. I already did the e-mail and web forms. I will be calling and writing next week.
Post an update of what you have completed as you finish each thing. Keep up the faith.
I feel the same way you described about my (ex-)Equinox. The first one had some issues other than the odor (it also had the A/C problem related by other people). The second was great, and the odor was the only problem I experienced.
It was definitely a sad day when I had to turn it in to conclude the repurchase process. The Equinox was the best vehicle I ever had, and even being very happy with my Nissan Murano I still miss the Equinox.
I hope it will be possible to buy a new one in the future when all these problems have been sorted out.
Nova1
I wound up writing a letter to Gary Cowger (President of GM North America) and Rick Wagoner (Chairman and CEO of GM). I received a call from corporate in response to my letter to Gary and the Customer Assistance Center is no longer handling my case. The CAC is who you get if you do any of the things listed in phase one. I was told this issue is "outside the box" of the CAC's knowledge. Anyway I think they are all stalling for time until the hoses made from a different material are available. I have corporates ear but I am not sure that is going to speed the process that is already underway. They are going to call me this week to give me an update. I think we may see the solution available before the NHTSA has a chance to act on it but it is good to have the complaint pipeline filling up. Hopefully the more "official" complaining we do the more we will be noticed. Is your vehicle undrivable? Mine is. The vapors make us dizzy and cause headaches. If this is happening to you be sure to include this in all correspondence. Health issues tend to gain quick attention.
I also filed a complaint on the ODI site a few weeks ago. My ID# is 10098303.
We also wrote a letter to Consumer Guide Magazine and The editorial director said he would forward it to GM's PR department.
I'll let you know if/when corporate does anything. Meanwhile my Equinox has been at the dealer since Nov. 8th. (Second time in for this problem). The dealer was instructed to do nothing the first time. GM gave me a Tahoe to use whle they sort this out but we really just want our Equinox back (Fixed of course). We really don't want ours replaced either, just fixed.
At any rate, I picked up the 2005 Consumer Reports book today that lists the Most and Least Reliable vehicles. The Equinox was not 'Recommended', even though Edmunds.com says that it is the 'Most Desirable Mid-Size SUV'. I don't doubt that at all. As previously stated, the Nox was at the very top of our list too. With the negative press that I have been reading lately, I am starting to think that we should wait for the third model year of the Nox to come out before buying one. Maybe GM will have this odor problem and other quality issues resolved by then.
In summary, I just can't stand the thoughts of another automobile-related debacle to deal with like the one I experienced with my 2002 Chevy TrailBlazer LTZ. I bought that SUV brand new and it started giving me perpetual headaches beginning at 1,500 miles of operation. We really don't want to go the Nissan Murano route for a crossover type vehicle, but may have to before it's all said and done.
Best of luck to everyone that is dealing with the odor and other issues. I hope that GM provides you with a satisfactory solution to your problems.
Ron M.
Ed
After having one Equinox replaced because of the odor problem, and the replacement Equinox being repurchased for the same reason, I finally decided to buy a Nissan Murano.
The Murano has been great so far (I have around 1000 miles already on). It is definitely a vehicle to consider.
I've never had a subscription to CR, so I can't say that I'm a *big fan* of the mag either. Today I was in a drug store and the CR cover really caught my eye--because it had the Most vs. Least Reliable text on it. So I decided to check it out.
In response to your inquiry, they mainly busted on it for what they deemed as outdated engine technology that produced disappointing fuel economy and mediocre power. They weren't impressed with the quality of the interior components' materials either. If my memory serves me correctly, they didn't particularly care for the way that the Nox steers. There were some other issues they cited as well, but I can't remember all of them at the moment. Personally, I liked the way the Nox steered during my test drive. Oh well, what do I know about it anyway. They're the experts I suppose. :-)
I can't say that I would avoid purchasing a new vehicle solely based upon a CR review, but it would factor into my decision to some degree. More extensive research should probably be done before making a final purchasing decision. I really like to hear what you guys in this forum have to say about your vehicles, because no one is going to be as honest about their vehicle as you owners here. As much as my wife and I like the Nox, I have to say that I am just way too suspect of the vehicle at this point to buy one for her. Our TrailBlazer LTZ experience doesn't help matters any. My wife has expressed an interest in the Murano and the Subaru Outback as well.
Thanks in advance to everyone for Nox-related information--both positive and negative.
Best regards,
Ron M.
What is the address for Gary Cowger, President of GM North America and Consumer Guide Magazine? I will write them both as well.
Thanks
Here is the info for Consumer Guide.
Mark Bilek
Editorial Director, Automotive
Publications International, Ltd./Consumer Guide
7373 North Cicero Avenue
Lincolnwood, IL 60712
My wife actually went on line to www.consumerguide.com and wrote the letter in the Contact Us section and the above is who replied via e-mail. He used a generic info@consumerguide.com address.
I addressed my letter to Mr. Cowger as follows.
Mr. Gary L. Cowger
President, GM North America
General Motors Corporation
General Motors Global Headquarters
300 Renaissance Center
Detroit, MI 48265-3000
Keep us posted on how you do.
Scrappy
Will4
At this point they know less than I do. Hopefully this week they will be up to speed with what I already know and have some sort of plan to get the "new material" hoses installed on my vehicle.
They are supposed to call by Wednesday afternoon.
I'll let you know if I hear anything of value.
Scrappy
What is it that you know about these hoses? What's going on with this. They just replaced the hoses on my radiator last Saturday.
Will4
Why this info is not common knowledge yet is a mystery to me.
I know that engineering has found that the material used on the hose sets that came on our Equinox's has two problems. One is the combination of the sealant pellets and the dexcool is drawing excess carbon from the hoses. This causes the dark color. They say flushing the system and not adding the pellets should stop this. Issue two is the smell. This is caused by a "more complex" reaction between the dexcool and the hose material. The vendor for these hoses is moving production to another plant so they can be produced using an alternate material that should stop the odor problem. What I don't have is an explanation for why this does not seem to happen to all Equinox's since GM only has one supplier for these hose sets. The new sets are not available yet. I don't know how far along they are in getting the new hoses into production. A set consists of every hose that comes in contact with the dexcool. I believe there are six in all.
At this point it seems like the Tech Line that the dealers use are telling dealers they are aware of the problem and they are working on a fix. What they are really waiting for are the service parts, A.K.A the new hoses. I still feel that since not all Equinox's are doing this that there may be another yet undiscovered factor. If they replaced your hoses last Saturday they were not made from the new material but I have heard that some dealers were replacing some hoses and the overflow tank and doing some sort of heavy duty triple flush and these vehicles have been OK. That's all I have for now. When corporate calls me again I'll update you.
Scrappy
The info is not common knowledge because the dealers are telling people they have never had any complaints of an odor from anyone but you. Customer Assistance told me the same thing TODAY!
Where did you get this info from?
Wil4
I was being somewhat sarcastic because I believe GM is purposely keeping this info from becoming common knowledge until the parts are available.
When I called the CAC they were unaware of ANY issues with the Equinox, least of all my issue. They asked for two days to research it and when that time was up they didn't have one more piece of information and wanted another two days. That's when I wrote my letters.
Anyway, I got this info thru a friend who works for GM. I asked him to get me some info on the subject a few weeks before my Nox started showing symptoms. Even though this issue has been around since at least May GM didn't start looking into it until September because that's when they noticed a spike in warranty claims on these vehicles.
Scrappy
With all due respect to noxwannabe, I don't really consider a vehicle with only 2,000 miles on it to have successfully passed any form of a quality test. :-) Although I do agree that these vehicles look sharp, ride nice and drive okay by my definition. I'm just too leery of them at this point due to some of the issues that I have been reading and hearing about. And as previously stated, I got burned really bad on a new Chevy TrailBlazer LTZ a couple of years ago. Once you experience the types of headaches that I did with that SUV, you really, really think twice about plopping down your hard earned cash again for something that you're not all that confident in.
The vehicle that I replaced my TrailBlazer with still hasn't given me a single quality problem/issue at 15,000 miles of operation. Admittedly, that's not all that many miles either. However, in comparison, my TrailBlazer had TWENTY-THREE different quality issues by the time it had 15,000 miles on it. Obviously that's why I chose not to keep it.
I've just always liked certain GM products over the years, although I haven't owned but three of them since 1977. That's one reason that I was considering the Nox so strongly. Most of my vehicles have been made by Toyota, Honda and Nissan. The GM's were a 1977 Pontiac TransAm, a 1999 Chevy Blazer and a 2002 Chevy TrailBlazer LTZ. The '77 TransAm was a VERY dependable vehicle, the '99 Blazer wasn't all that great, and the '02 TrailBlazer was a complete disaster for me.
At any rate, thanks for posting your experiences scrappydoo1 and will4.
Ron M.
It is sad for me to say this, but I think you have made a wise decision. Until GM can solve this bad odor problem related to the coolant I would not advise anybody to buy an Equinox.
I can say this based on my experience with TWO different vehicles. In case you have not read some of my previous notes, I had one Equinox replaced by GM because of the odor problem. The replacement vehicle had exactly the same problem. The second vehicle was repurchased by GM and I received a full refund.
Ed