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Natural Gas fueled vehicles

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    cngmikecngmike Member Posts: 20
    Long Beach $2.01
    Clean Energy Seal Beach $2.04

    I have never seen Clean Energy so close to Long Beach in price. It it the same at their other stations? Are they having to lower their prices because of being so close to gasoline?
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    cngazcngaz Member Posts: 10
    The Phill unit is designed to last the normal length of a Honda GX Lease or loan, about 5 years or 7000 hours.
    It is rebuildable if sent back to the Toronto factory.
    The larger FuelMaker units are dealer maintained on site.
    The FMQ2 (3000 Lbs)and FMQ2-36 (3600 Lbs)are the current models.
    The FM4 is the previous model and is superceded by the FM2,
    FM4 parts are readily available, but it still has a shorter service interval than the newer units.
    Parts are available for the C3 on a limited basis, but FuelMaker is reccomending to dealers to remove them from service whenever possible and the phase out of support for the C3 model is beginning since most are in the area of 13 years old.
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    javireyjavirey Member Posts: 4
    Do you refill the tank with LNG or LPG?
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    peakaypeakay Member Posts: 6
    yes, it's $2.04 at fountain valley. not sure why, but clean energy was a little more that gsoline for a while, which was a bit disappointing

    My crown vic for some reason leaks at the filler nozzle when filling at any other station than fountain valley, which seems to have a new/newer style nozzle. anyone know why?

    anyone else out there with Vics?
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    peakaypeakay Member Posts: 6
    Hi there, I have been searching but cannot find a comprehensive list of perks for clean air sticker vehicles in OC. Can anyone confirm the following and if true, how the process works?

    - 91 express free access
    - Corona del mar/Highway 73 toll road access
    - Free parking meteres in LA (does this also apply anywhere in OC?)

    These are key ones I would like to find out about. Are there any others I am missing??

    TIA!
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    brousebrouse Member Posts: 6
    Just picked up a 2000 Contour in AZ with 32k on it for $5K in excellent condition! Same peeling with the dash; will try "Shoe Goo" and a dashmat to fix that. Carpool lane, here I come! :)
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    londnrlondnr Member Posts: 55
    Hi,

    In response to your post.

    There is some debate about access to the three + (free) lane on the 91. I have been driving a CNG Crown Vic for 5 years and I remember being told that CNG qualified. However recent posts on the CNG Civic Board have disputed this and calls placed to the OCTA were inconclusive.

    My opinion, and it is shared by others, you need to set up a separate account with the 91 Express lanes. This allows you to use the three + and essentially free access to the 91 Express Lanes. Do your homework before taking my word for it.

    The access is limited to the 91 Express Lanes and you get no discounts/perks on any of the other toll roads.

    Parking meters in L.A.: It is only the city of Los Angeles and Santa Monica that allow free parking on the meters - and then only for the posted maximum time. Other cities have their own rules. My rule of thumb is if the parking enforcement is city of L.A. then it's free parking, all others - check first. I am not sure but Long Beach may also allow free metered parking. I don't know of any city in Orange County that has this arrangement. If anyone out there has info on OC I would love to hear it.

    Hope this helps.
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    londnrlondnr Member Posts: 55
    I hate to burst your bubble, but I don't think the Contour qualifies for the carpool access sticker.

    Here is the link to the qualifying vehicles:
    http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/carpool/carpool.htm
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    mikepimikepi Member Posts: 3
    Could you provide me one of those CNG small compressor?
    I cant buy it US and France.
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    brousebrouse Member Posts: 6
    Actually, I'm in AZ where the bi-fuels are allowed in the HOV lane.
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    londnrlondnr Member Posts: 55
    Glad to hear that you're ok on the carpool access
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    yerth10yerth10 Member Posts: 431
    Last year, 50% of the new vehicles sold in Pakistan were CNG powered and now that country has 870,000 CNG vehicles and worldwide its somewhere at 4.8 million.
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    mikepimikepi Member Posts: 3
    hello.
    I couldnt contact with UK gasfill company.This telephone number on their site is acitve?
    Maybe somebody has contacted with them?
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    mikepimikepi Member Posts: 3
    I couldnt contact with Gasfill. It is still working?
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    timontimon Member Posts: 4
    Feb pricing.

    Well it looks like Clean Energy is at it again, ripping of the public :mad: The price of NG contracts went down in Feb. :D Long Beach Energy is now $1.77 gge but Clean Energy in Fountain Valley went up to $2.149. Why you ask, because they don't care what the price of NG is, they price based totally on the price of gasoline. So this month they picked up well over $.30 in profit without doing anything to earn it.

    Clean Energy are real jurks.

    On a lighter note, SoCalGas now has the new combined tariff for fueling at home :D but I'll do another post about that.
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    londnrlondnr Member Posts: 55
    Just to add to that,

    I heard T. Boone Pickens, the owner of ENRG, on the radio recently saying that there was a glut of natural gas at the moment - just more money in their pocket I suppose.
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    timontimon Member Posts: 4
    If there was a real big GLUT I think we would see $1.50 pricing.
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    cngusercnguser Member Posts: 59
    Anyone have a 2000 Ford Contour CNG/GAS that sometimes will not start on CNG, but after warmed up running with GAS & then doing the CNG reset trick, the CNG will start and run fine? I suspect it is related to cold weather when below 35 deg F outside. Located in Portland Oregon area...
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    xkmailxkmail Member Posts: 36
    We are at 2.68 per gallon. I am a newbie and don't understand the pump says 1 gallon unleaded = 5.66 gallons CNG?
    I know UL is at $3.09 locally so its still not a bad deal.
    Anybody got real world numebrs on Honda Civic CNG Cars for highway miles ?
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    stevez51stevez51 Member Posts: 1
    Does anyone know where I can purchase a used CNG Vehicle. Is there a website that promotes these vehicles? Are there any car manufactures still selling new ones? Does anyone have any information on the conversion kits for converting your car into a bi-fuel with CNG? How much does it cost? Where do you get it done? Can I write off the costs? PLease respond and give me as much information as possible. I am new to the game.
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    londnrlondnr Member Posts: 55
    Honda is currently the only manufacturer that makes a new CNG car - the Civic GX.

    Try NGV.ORG for used vehicles. As for converting, I suppose that technically it can be done, but I am willing to bet that the cost is prohibitive.
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    xkmailxkmail Member Posts: 36
    About 12-15 last time I checked
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    jjamesonjjameson Member Posts: 6
    seems like CNG is on the way out and E85 and hydrogen are on the way in
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    jim314jim314 Member Posts: 491
    These are noncompeting technologies. Right now CNG is for local transportation. The main attraction is to be independent of the gasoline distribution system, especially to be able to use a home refilling device, and to have extremely low emissions without all the complicated and expensive gasoline-electric hybrid apparatus.
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    cngazcngaz Member Posts: 10
    I think you will see some resurgance of CNG, 1. because of the price of unleaded, thats why there are 14 models of NG cars in Europe.
    2. Cost savings over Unleaded and hopefully the 05 Energy Act incentives will help prime the pump also.
    Everyone complains about lack of new NGV's or cost effective conversions.
    Whens the last time you took the time and said it directly to your car dealer in person? When is the last time you told your Congresman?
    Demand drives production, we need to create the demand, we are the ones!
    Also - I have installed 10 Phills and 4 more are being installed right now in Arizona, they are about the noise level of a good electric hair drier, the larger FMQ2-36 I equate with the level of a clothes drier, we have over 300 of them scattered accross Arizona.
    Lots of good stuff to look at in Phoenix this coming week at the Clean Cities Congress and Expo! www.afvi.org/PhoenixCongress2006
    Dave

    ps for used NGV's see CNG Motors in Phoenix, Best Auto Sales in Corona, or Morris Auto Sales in Oklahoma :)
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    cngusercnguser Member Posts: 59
    If you are just starting in the world of CNG vehicles, more formally called "NGV's", one of the best sources for finding a good USED one is from Uncle Sam at: http://www.autoauctions.gsa.gov/
    Auctions are held in nearly all states. There are several in Calif, if that is your area. Now they have a few '01 & ' 02 Chevy Cavaliers, if you watch for them.
    I would forget trying to convert an existing vehicle - it would likely cost more that it is worth. You can search the web for some leads on this.
    Be sure you find a dealer with a certified CNG tech on staff for any repairs or problems that may arise - before you buy. These vehicles cannot be legally worked on by regular shop mechanics/technicians for CNG related problems. I presently own 2 CNG/GAS cars from GSA auctions won at very reasonable prices, and have a home fueling unit to fill them up. I just grin when driving by gasoline stations, as my CNG home fueling is costing me a whopping $1.50 per gallon equivalent!
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    yerth10yerth10 Member Posts: 431
    http://www.iangv.org/content/view/17/35/

    Pakistan now have 1 million CNG powered vehicles and is the 3rd country to achieve this mark after Argentina & Brazil.

    There are 5 million + CNG powered vehicles in the World.
    Pretty soon, CNG will become a common vehicle fuel as more natural gas pipelines and LNG ships are built.
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    alterecoaltereco Member Posts: 8
    Hello all just found this site and read all the posts.
    I'm in Portland and own a 1998 f-250 300psi truck that I purchased just a month ago. I love it but I'm having trouble getting fuel it. There is only 1 station with public access here now since N.W. natural gas closed there pumps down in Portland due to BILLING COMPANY ISSUES!!! HOW LAME IS THAT EXCUSE FOR OUR ENVIRONMENT! :mad:

    Fuel up here now is at 2.18 per GGE in the remaining station….
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    alterecoaltereco Member Posts: 8
    I'm looking to purchase a used FMQ2 if there is one out there someplace...
    A new unit does not seem to be a very good investment @ $7500 with only 4000 hours of service before rebuild is required.
    FMQ2 delivers 1 gge per hour. (4000 GGE before rebuild time) 7500/4000 = 1.875 per GGE depreciation. by the time you add gas cost and electricity you are not saving anything. :confuse:
    Seems like you don’t start to save until after the $650 rebuild of the unit…
    650/4000 = .1625 per GGE depreciation.
    Can any body give me a sanity check over this?
    thanks, Steve AKA: alter eco
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    jim314jim314 Member Posts: 491
    How in the world did the price of an "FMQ2" get up to $7500 (presumably installed)? What is the thing made of, and what will it do besides pump NG into your car?
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    alterecoaltereco Member Posts: 8
    price quote from local dealer without install price. He wants $500 to install and you must have a concreete pad and do the electrical yourself or sub contract....
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    cngusercnguser Member Posts: 59
    Also in Portland, I share your concerns re the gas co dumping their SE Portland CNG public station. Past 2 trips to the Hillsboro site found it out of order. (Note you can apply for a card for that site, and get a discount on the CNG pump price). So as I own 2 GNG/GAS Contours from the GSA Auctions, I got a used FMQ-2, did my own elect & concrete, got permits, had the dealer install the gas line and check all out. I figure about $1.51 per GGE is my cost and for me that will pay off sooner than later as gasoline continues to rise. I plan to get a Honda Civic GX soon, and am a strong advocate of the CNG alternative.
    Check the alternative fuel websites - I saw a used FMQ-2 for sale not too long ago. If mechanically or electrically inclined - you can do much on your own. Be sure to get required permits. (Hannah Ford a has CNG tech available for service on your truck).
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    fbaldwinfbaldwin Member Posts: 34
    Does anyone know if the Phill 3600 unit can fill a 1999 or 2000 Ford F250 CNG truck? Or do these older trucks require a 3000 PSI fill.
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    cngazcngaz Member Posts: 10
    It could be either, depends on how it was ordered.
    I would look at the truck first, should be on the gas fill door if its a factory unit.
    Depending on the size of the tank(s) a Phill would take some time to fill, unless you just add a few gallons each day. Some are doing it just fine, depends how much gas you use, and how much time you have idle to fuel.
    For any full size vehicle a larger FuelMaker would be a better investment- Field Serviceable, fill time twice as fast, etc.
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    alterecoaltereco Member Posts: 8
    I was wondering how much your permits were to have the FMQ2 installed?
    Also how much of a discount do you get with the pacific pride card???

    are you dealing with smokey stover?
    I have one on the way from him.....
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    cngusercnguser Member Posts: 59
    Clackamas County electrical permit was approx $75, city permit for gas line extension was $13. Electrical parts were about $125 (conduit, boxes, wire, 220-15A breaker, disc sw, etc.) Concrete - get ready mix sacks at Home Depot.
    I believe the discount was around 7 or 8 cents per GGE, and you get billed by mail. Call the fuel company station at the specific # posted on site or call MetroFueling, where I got my card. Explain you are a CNG user, not going for their fleet gasoline card or you won't get anywhere.
    Ya, Smokey runs a good business, and knows it well. (He can tell you about my installation).
    Good luck.
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    1lexigas1lexigas Member Posts: 7
    I am investigating purchasing a Phil, but not with a Honda.
    Someone mentioned that the Phil no longer offers rebates.
    Is that true?
    In my case, I would not be purchasing a Honda.
    I live in Southern Calif. San Diego Gas and Electric.
    If there is no rebate, the conversion payback is much longer.
    Thanks
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    bigeddiebigeddie Member Posts: 2
    The Federal Government in Australia is giving car owners $2000 toward the cost of converting their cars to natural gas. Can the 2002 V6 Tribute be converted successfully and be fuel efficient or are there problems that would be encounted.The cost of petrol in Australia is approx.$1.40 per litre and gas is 55cents per litre.
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    cngusercnguser Member Posts: 59
    Don't know the rebate answer, but you have a mixed message: 1) What non-Honda GX vehicle are you purchasing? 2) If not a CNG factory built model, where are you having it converted, and if so any idea of the cost? How are you going to handle federal EPA certification and Calif state DMV certification/license, etc.?

    I have had good luck with the GSA Fleet Auctions for CNG/GAS cars in fine condition.
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    1lexigas1lexigas Member Posts: 7
    #1 Toyota corolla
    2) Purchase of conversion kit from South America where they have kits
    3)Havent figured out this step yet. How daunting is Caif DMV certification and EPA regs. Is there a posibility that since it is a dual fuel vehicle it could be just left as a Gasoline vehicle and would be able to operate it under the radar?
    What reason would this not work? Even during smog inspection, what would be considered an issue if it passes Gasoline standards (since these parts of the vehicle will not be affected).
    Perhaps I am being unrealistic, but why would this not work?
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    cngusercnguser Member Posts: 59
    1. Nice car
    2. This one is news to me. You might post some info on contacting this place as others may be interested.
    3. I live in Oregon and am not familiar with Calif regs, but suffice it to say Calif is very strict from what I hear. If an inspector sees that modifications have been made to the engine fueling system - I don't know if or what the outcome might be. You might ask some anonymous questions regarding the subject with state officials before going ahead. Ya, maybe it would fly under the radar...
    Let us know what happens!
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    marty2611marty2611 Member Posts: 8
    Yes, I have the same car with the same problem. Did you find out what is wrong?
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    cngusercnguser Member Posts: 59
    Spring and summer came, and the no cold start on CNG problem seems to have gone due to warmer ambient temperatures.
    I bought, thru Helm Inc. (Helm.com), the 2000 Contour Shop Manual and one Tech Service Bulletin 01-23 that appears to describe the problem. 1st suggests the low flow injectors may be completely closed stuck, and tells how to carefully apply 12VDC to each briefly to loosen up, etc. 2nd suggests replacment of the Compuvalve, and 3rd to remove and clean the coalescent filter body, clean with iso alcohol, etc.
    None would I attempt, so may go to the one dealer here that has a CNG tech if the problem returns in Winter.
    Just last week on a cooler AM it did not start after some cranking and I pushed down and up on the accelerator pedal -and it started. Not sure if a coincidence or what...
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    bank1avpbank1avp Member Posts: 78
    FYI a new compuvalve from Ford is $980. If you can get one. One of the reasons I no longer sell Contours. The one I did get lucky to get took them 4 month, NO JOKE. From what I hear from an insider all they are doing is rebuilding them. So they have to wait for one to come in so they can rebuild while they also ask for your core.
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    marty2611marty2611 Member Posts: 8
    Thank you for your reply. Can you tell me where the compuvalve is located on the contour?
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    bank1avpbank1avp Member Posts: 78
    Directly under the engine. You'll have to lift the car to get to it.
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    cngusercnguser Member Posts: 59
    Interesting. There are other less costly key components that should be checked or serviced before going after the Compuvalve: filters & regulators. I had to have a regulator replaced on one of my Contours, about $500.

    Hey, anyone out there have a Chevy Cavalier CNG/GAS model?
    Any CNG problems experienced?
    GSA is selling 2002's this year, then later the 2003 & 2004 models they have.
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    marty2611marty2611 Member Posts: 8
    Thank you for the info. My car runs fine once warmed up. Just when it gets cold it won't start. I also have a Cavalier that I had trouble with. Ended up at the dealer 3 times just trouble shooting. They replaced the computer box and still stalled. Bottom line they replace the throttle cable and the problem went away after $800.00.
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    fitlighterfitlighter Member Posts: 1
    THE STATE WASHINGTON HATES NATURAL GAS POWERED VEHICLE. IF YOUR CAR IS POWERED BY NATURAL GAS. YOU PAY A RESOUNDING PREMIUM ON YOUR YEARLY LICENSE RENEWAL. THIS SUR-CHARGE IS INFLICTED BECAUSE SOMEHOW THE STATE THINKS YOU ARE TRYING TO RIP THE STATE OFF ITS POUND OF FLESH, IF YOU FILL YOUR CAR UP AT YOUR HOME. OR AS THE STATE SAYS, "TO HELL WITH CLEANER AIR."
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    bank1avpbank1avp Member Posts: 78
    Well thats because you are ripping them off, of all that gasoline you're not buying and lost revenue from the tax. Shame on you :0).

    Arizona:
    $25 registration (normally about $500 for a new 2006 vehicle)
    HOV lane access even on bi-fuel vehicles
    Reduced therm rate for natural gas if compressing it into a car. (cost more to heat my house with the same NG)
    Not sure about the meter parking I think CA has the it though.

    It's been 2 years since my last gasoline fill up. Use stabil in the tank so the gasoline doesn't go bad.

    Murphy
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