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Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

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Comments

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    so you won't have the stigma of driving a mommy mobile

    don't all mid- and full-size CUVs come with mommy-mobile stigma? ;b

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • vinnynyvinnyny Member Posts: 764
    Is there a minimum number of cars bought/year to be considered for CCBA? I'm at 17 cars in 10 years...My wife says I'm sick.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Oh, you are sick but you;re in the right place.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Ah, to be a true CCBA, when the time comes to start the search for a new ride ...

    WAIT!

    Do searches really ever "start" and "stop" when you are part of CCBA? Or do you just test drive the newest, latest, greatest hooptie out there? In my mind, to be a true CCBA, you can't really rule anything out during the search process.

    Which leads me to the rest of my tale ....

    On Saturday, I had the pleasure of taking my wife out to a fine romantic dinner (OK, it was Boston Market, but it was her choice). She must have been in a fine mood as I was able to convince her that a trip to the local Chevrolet dealer to see the new '08 Malibu was a nice way to spend some time.

    Unfortunately, there were no new Malibu's on the lot to be seen - the saleslady took my name and phone number and will call me when some arrive.

    So, we wandered the lot - they had an '07 HHR that was loaded, but it was an auto. Wife's first impression was that it was a bit 'strange' looking, but once we sat inside she was more amenable to it. The windows are quite small - I suspect that blind spots are an issue when driving it. She liked the seating height - one complaint she has with my L is that she has to climb in and out of it, the seats are so low.

    Moving on, they had a wicked black on black '08 Impala SS. Sat in that one as well - again, nice seating height for the missus, plus she thought the seats were fairly comfortable. Saleslady asked if we wanted to test drive it -- who am I to say no?

    Likes:

    1) Power - 303HP really makes it fly. Took it out on the highway and buried my right foot. Nice, nice, nice acceleration.

    2) Comfort - wife commented that as much as she likes to drive her '08 VUE, she's not as happy being a passenger. Not so with the Impala .. the seats were agreeably comfortable for her. Could easily see us taking long road trips in it.

    Dislikes:

    1) A 4-speed automatic? No manu-matic control? How 1990's of Chevrolet. I know that a new RWD Impala is due in a year or two, and one can only hope that it will be fitted with a proper automatic transmission.

    2) Very small side mirrors. Wife commented they look like half-closed eyes. Even the mirrors on my L are bigger.

    3) Black leather interior would be hot, hot, hot in the heat of the summer.

    Sticker price on the car we drove was just over $30K - when I got home I optioned one up the way I would like (no need to spend $900 for chrome wheels - polished aluminum would be just fine), then took my GM Supplier discount into account and the $1500 rebate and came up with just under $27K.

    Heck, the Malibu LTZ is $26K with the GMS discount factored in.

    Perhaps a dark blue with the tan interior ....
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    I say wait for the G8. 6-spd auto and ... i forget the number, but i think its like 365hp. oh... and RWD! :)

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • woodywwwoodyww Member Posts: 1,806
    Wow. Almost puts my own car shopping obsessiveness to shame. :P Probably the same things I said the last time, but:

    I like the Pilot. Can't see a real reason not to get one unless you need off-road capability. Less dorky than a Sienna for a young single guy. Akangel loves hers, & she's been thru a LOT of p/u's & SUV's.

    I like the Taco idea. Yes, NO available side airbags, but it will last forever & have great resale. Heck, I had a crummy little '86 toyota p/u w/o even Front airbags. I was going to spring for the TRD off-road package last time I wanted a Taco.

    4Runner: I think you've ruled it out--mileage? Maybe 16 mpg with the 6 cyl overall? Nice vehicles, hold a ton of stuff,
    & they do depreciate so you can get a nice 2-3 y.o. used one in the low $20's.

    just my 2 cents, woody
  • akanglakangl Member Posts: 3,282
    I like the Pilot. Can't see a real reason not to get one unless you need off-road capability. Less dorky than a Sienna for a young single guy. Akangel loves hers, & she's been thru a LOT of p/u's & SUV's.

    I can't say enough good about the Pilot. Did a 700 mile round trip yesterday on bad roads, Pilot never missed a beat, not on the ice or the snow covered roads. Hubby was impressed and the best part was he didn't even begin to get uncomfortable until we were 11 miles from home. THAT is a new thing! He drove all day, including in Anchorage. Normally he's whining the whole way home about how uncomfortable he is. So much for his bashing Honda!

    I take mine off-road a little bit, nothing major, but it does what I need it to do and doesn't grumble. Just have to watch the ground clearance and slow down over certain bumps/dips.

    The Pilot be 4 months old in a week, currently has 9k on it, and I can't find a SINGLE thing I don't like about it and can't think of anything else I'd rather drive. Is that a new record for me?? Could my CCBA days be over?? :blush:

    On another note, we did have a slight slip up and visited the new 08 Super Duty trucks while at the Ford dealer getting bolts to put the old Ford's bumper back on. NICE trucks. The 08 Focus looks good too, glanced at them as we drove around looking for the trucks, lol. No test drives, just looked.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    The 08 Focus looks good too, glanced at them as we drove around looking for the trucks, lol. No test drives, just looked.

    That is how it starts... :P
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Could there be a cure for CCBS out there in the form of the perfect car for each person? I'm not sure I WANT to be cured of CCBS...

    :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • woodywwwoodyww Member Posts: 1,806
    Normally he's whining the whole way home

    LOL. Who knew--there's a cure for spousal whining?? And it only took a Pilot. (In Some more advanced cases it could take a M5, or M3, or......for guys a 50" plasma TV may cure it temporarily).
  • mark156mark156 Member Posts: 1,915
    The Pilot be 4 months old in a week, currently has 9k on it, and I can't find a SINGLE thing I don't like about it and can't think of anything else I'd rather drive. Is that a new record for me?? Could my CCBA days be over??

    Akangl, I have had the '07 Honda CR-V almost 6 months and 8,900 miles. There is an additional 7,700 of towing miles for a total of 16,600 miles.

    I drive the little CR-V every chance that I get as it's comfortable, easy to park and gets 22 city/28 highway. I'm getting a few rock chips on the front and now have a broken fog light (on back order).

    I checked at the Honda dealer and they don't have a cover for the front available. I need to check around before I get a broken headlight assembly.

    I am now a new Honda fan.... but still love the Land Rover!!!

    Mark156 :)
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • grandtotalgrandtotal Member Posts: 1,207
    I need to check around before I get a broken headlight assembly.

    I doubt you will get a broken headlight assembly, they are polycarbonate and are very tough.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,285
    Too soon to tell if there's a cure... We're only talking about four months, and I'd want to see two to five years of clinical data before I made such a pronouncement.

    Even if there is one "perfect" car for each person, there are, what, a few hundred models of cars on the market at any given time? The chances of any of us stumbling across a cure are small.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,285
    You might look into an X-pel or other plastic film cover for the headlights and foglights. I don't think it will prevent cracks, but may reduce chipping (I've never had a significant problem with that, knock on wood).
  • gussguss Member Posts: 1,167
    I agree , CCBA can only be in remission.

    The perfect car is a moving target to hit. What would have been my ideal car 5 or 10 years ago ain't going to do it for me now.

    I think the best way to do it would be to build a stable of cars for specific purposes. I guess this would be more of a symptom than a cure though.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    "The chances of any of us stumbling across a cure are small."

    Whew, thank goodness! For a second there, I was worried.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • otto8otto8 Member Posts: 116
    You folks should check out that 3-M invisible bra stuff!
    http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Scotchgard-PPF/Home/

    Just the ticket for protecting your vehicles front end/
    headlights etc. from road rash............

    Its sold in rolls and kits to DIY !
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    Q. Can Scotchgard™ Paint Protection Film be used on headlights, foglights or windshields?
    A. No, the Department of Transportation does not allow any film of any kind to be put on headlights, foglights or windshields.


    That's interesting. I'll bet that they would do it anyway. :blush:

    james
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    BS people do it all the time. They even sell different colored films if you want to change the color of the light to yellow or light blue.
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    Now, that would be nice, if you could put red film over the trendy "altezza" tail lights when that look falls out of fashion. :) Has that happens yet?

    I have dislikes that style since day-one... too busy looking. Just my personal opinion, but I DO have impeccable taste! :shades:

    james
  • akanglakangl Member Posts: 3,282
    Do I look at the classified ads?? Was reading through them today while waiting on hubby's truck to get winter tires put on. Found a 1997 Civic, 5-spd, lowish miles for $2600, course that got me thinking about how nice it would be to have a summer mileage saver for cheap.

    *sigh* I really need to stay away from the newspaper, lol.

    Course the downside to the Civic is a reconstruct title, which of course, doesn't bother me as long as the reason isn't too severe. Our Ford has a recon title, but I know why and its no biggie.

    Oh and before anyone says it.......The Pilot will not be in danger, lol.

    On another note, the stupid dealer put the wrong oil in AGAIN, that's gotten on my nerves enough now that I'm going to switch to synthetic and do change the oil at home. :mad:
  • gussguss Member Posts: 1,167
    for the same reason I pickup the local Carshopper magazine. There is always the possibility of the deal of the century (or at least decade) comes along.

    Usually though if the price is too good I will dismiss it as a typo or a problem car. Much like your rebuilt Civic. But at that price , how much could you lose.

    My Mr2 Spyder quest has led me to 2 candidates. A 2000 with 92k miles for $8500 , in my color(black) and only one owner. The other is a 2001 in silver with 80k miles. This one is on the 5th or 6th owner. He also wants $8500. I think the black one is the better deal, but I am not sure I want to pay that kind of money for a 8 year old car. The black one is at a dealer and went to auction but did not sell.

    I can wait a bit longer but I already missed the fall top down weather.
  • akanglakangl Member Posts: 3,282
    Usually though if the price is too good I will dismiss it as a typo or a problem car. Much like your rebuilt Civic. But at that price , how much could you lose.

    Exactly my thoughts. I might swing by where its sitting today and take a gander at it. I can spot bad body work, paintwork, stuff like that, would have a pretty good idea of what happened to it. There is a limit to what I'll accept with a reconstruct. Our Ford was totalled due to vandalism and its general poor condition thus the reason I wasn't worried about its dirty title.

    Speaking of the Ford, we've had that thing for 15 months, put about 15k on it and its been one of the best trucks we've ever owned. We've put very little money into it and the old girl just keeps on kicking. I think its got about 130k or so on it now. Best $2k we've ever spent!
  • mark156mark156 Member Posts: 1,915
    My niece and her husband bought a 2002 Subaru Outback wagon with a salvaged title'. It has been the best little wagon for the price. The car was totaled out at 300 miles on the odometer..... someone bought it, rebuilt it and put 11,000 miles on it. So, when they bought it, the normal retail would have been about $16,000 and they got it for $8,500.

    My niece backed into a mailbox, her husband bumped into something on the front, so, a decent running car for cheap and with a young child (now 4.5 yrs old), it doesn't matter if the 'little darl'n" spills stuff in the car or not.

    I was ALL against buying this car at first even though it looked really good. I can spot repairs from a mile away and this car had previous front damage that continued all the way down the passenger side. But, the price was cheap for a low mileage 'run-a-bout' wagon. Now, she has over 60,000 miles and has not had any trouble with it... just regular maintenance.

    mark156
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • 1racefan1racefan Member Posts: 932
    I'm curious - I was reading about your busted fog light. Did it break while the vehicle was in tow, or during normal driving?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    hmmm... but can't you get a Miata (a car that, to my knowledge, won all the comparisons and competitions between the 2 cars at the time) for an equal or better prices?

    Or am I making that up?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • mark156mark156 Member Posts: 1,915
    I'm curious - I was reading about your busted fog light. Did it break while the vehicle was in tow, or during normal driving?

    Racefan... I'm thinking the fog light was broken when in tow. But, I didn't notice it right away so it could have happened while driving it. I really need to find something to cover the front of the CR-V that is easy to install and remove.

    The Motorhome has a long rock guard hanging at the rear. It seems that most campground roads/driveways are made of rock so the tires seem to collect a few rocks. As close as the Honda is to the motorhome you would think it wouldn't be that big of an issue but I do have rock chips on the front bumper cover and a few on the hood.

    I was in a sandstorm in the desert a month ago while driving the Honda and now have a pitted windshield. :cry: I'm sure a rock will hit it soon and then I'll replace the windshield. :mad:

    Mark
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • gussguss Member Posts: 1,167
    the 2 cars at the time) for an equal or better prices?hmmm... but can't you get a Miata (a car that, to my knowledge, won all the comparisons and competitions between

    I have wanted a Miata since 1988 when I first saw that Mazda was building a 2 seat roadster. I sat in the first one my local dealer got in 1989, at 6'6" there was no way I was going to fit. A couple of years ago my Dad had his for sale , a '95 with 80k mile that he would have sold to me for about $2500, but it was hard to turn the wheel with my knees jammed against it. I have read since about swapping the seats and steering wheel out for smaller ones, but in a car that size I would want the airbag.

    The Mr2 is mid engine , which eliminates the transmission hump, making it much more roomy. But, with the Toyota name on it resale over the equivalent Miata is about $2-$3k.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    I'm not sure, but I think they made them bigger since then. You may want to try a later gen Miata. I tried one on at an autoshow in maybe '01 or '02 and found it cramped for me, but not undriveable (then again, I manage to drive my alfa with my knees in the way. i just work with the top 2/3 of the wheel). Probably right about the same as an S2000, if you've tried one of those. I never tried an MR2, though.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • gussguss Member Posts: 1,167
    I have never tried the 2nd('98-'05) or 3rd('06-'08) generation. From what I heard the 2nd gen was more cramped due to more padding in the seats and an additional brace behind the seats. The 3rd gen is supposed to be the roomiest, but still too much money used for a weekend car.

    I may try a 1st gen again to see if the modifications would make it close to comfortable.
  • 1racefan1racefan Member Posts: 932
    If you don't have time, or don't want to do the clear bra (with light covers) route, one trick that some autocrossers use is to buy a roll of the 3M blue painters' tape. They will completely tape up the fog lights and light assemblies (and sometimes painted portions of the front end of the car) to avoid breakage and chipping. With the blue tape, when you remove the tape, no residue is left. This isn't a good solution for regular driving, but would work well while the vehicle is in tow. When you get to your destination, just remove the tape.
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    At 6-5, I doubt that you will be able to drive it with the top up. :( That may be okay for a fair-weather, occasional, fun-car. :shades:

    james
  • akanglakangl Member Posts: 3,282
    At the Civic, not up close, didn't have time, but driving past it appears to be in ok shape, the rear bumper was hanging a little. I believe its an EX (I think I saw a sunroof), its a coupe, black, not too bad from a distance. Might get a little closer to it next week if I have time.

    Almost had a Neon for a tail ornament yesterday. Roads are really slick, guy was driving like it was summer. He hit a slick spot, slammed on his brakes, locked them up and headed straight for the Pilot. I was slowed in a line of merging traffic. Fortunatly I knew what was coming (had been watching him) and left myself enough room where I could get the Pilot out of the way. That's twice this week I've come way too close to being hit, the other time was a woman who lost control of her truck coming at me, thankfully she got it back before she hit me. *starting to look around the Pilot for a target* :surprise:
  • woodywwwoodyww Member Posts: 1,806
    hit a slick spot, slammed on his brakes, locked them up and headed straight for the Pilot

    At least you're in a 4000 lb, solid vehicle with umpteen airbags. I guessing the guy in the Neon would have come out 2nd best if he'd have plowed into a Pilot. A FS p/u, ramming your Pilot, that would be more worrisome (duh).

    I really like having a larger, well-built vehicle with tons of safety engineering. My 5-series is built like a German tank, with 6 airbags. Of course nothing is foolproof, but I think driving a tiny car definitely decreases your odds.

    PS-AK drivers almost sound worse than Mass. drivers--I didn't think that was possible?
  • akanglakangl Member Posts: 3,282
    PS-AK drivers almost sound worse than Mass. drivers--I didn't think that was possible?

    Alaska drivers are the worst, inconsiderate, rude, just horrible. Its combat driving at its finest.

    The woman with the truck that almost hit me was trying to avoid another truck. The first truck had pulled out of a local business and had to do a 3 point turn to get turned around on the road. He was blocking both lanes, she came around the corner too fast, swerved to miss him, almost hit the back of my hubby's truck (which was parked at the above mentioned business). She then continued on out of control straight at the Pilot. I was almost stopped, had my turn signal on (getting ready to pull in to the business parking lot). It was close, too close for my liking and I had really no where to go.

    One of the MAIN reasons I bought the Pilot was its safety rating, I researched that to death and knew it was a very safe vehicle. The air bags, stability control, traction control, and its size were also pluses. Its as small as I'll go for a family vehicle. I don't mind a small car for errands in the summer, but winter I want my SUV.

    There was an accident a month or so ago where a FS chevy truck lost control in the southbound lane, rolled, came across the median upside down and landed partially on an 03 Honda Pilot, both vehicles were then hit by another FS truck. The woman in the Pilot walked away and is buying another Pilot according to my salesguy at the Honda dealership. She was happy with how her car held up and protected her.
  • gussguss Member Posts: 1,167
    I doubt that you will be able to drive it with the top up

    Miata no, the MR2 is not bad at all, I don't touch .
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    I read a comparison long ago, probably when the MR-2 roadster was introduced, between it and the Miata. The article was in either C&D or R&T. As I recall, the testers really liked both cars, found the Toyota to be the better track car and the Mazda easier to live with in day-to-day driving.

    Just my foggy recollection. :)

    james
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    blows everything else out of the water. DELETED is the most advanced, user friendly website ever

    Hardly. The search criteria suck, and the search engine doesn't even work. Each search yields the same results: "Featured Vehicles"

    Loser :lemon:
    (just my expert opinion) :shades:

    james
  • 1racefan1racefan Member Posts: 932
    SPAM, It's what's for dinner!!! :P
  • mark156mark156 Member Posts: 1,915
    They will completely tape up the fog lights and light assemblies (and sometimes painted portions of the front end of the car) to avoid breakage and chipping. With the blue tape, when you remove the tape, no residue is left.

    1Racefan... excellent idea!! I was thinking of using tape but didn't want to use anything too sticky.... the blue tape will work perfect. Thank you for the suggestion!!! :shades:

    Mark :D
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    SPAM, It's what's for dinner!!!

    I love spending Friday nights doing cleanup on aisle 3. :shades:
  • gogiboygogiboy Member Posts: 732
    Guss--

    I have the 2nd gen. (92) MR2 w/T-tops. At 5' 11" I am in the second to last notch on the seat slider. Wearing a cap, I have a bit of room above my head, but not much. I also have a pad that provides lumbar support that raises the seat height a bit. I'm guessing that the "comfortable" upper limit for a 2nd generation is in the low 6' territory.

    There seems to be a number of reasonably low mileage/lfew owner specimens out there for under $5K for NA and under $7K for the turbo version. They're a heck of a lot of car for the money. I'm only the 2nd owner and have had mine for almost 8 years. Other than scheduled maintenance there was a freon leak and some suspension bushings that squeaked.

    One significant advantage that the 1st and 2nd Gens have over the last is a functional trunk. I'm always amazed at how much stuff can be fit into it. That makes it a much better weekend cruiser in my opinion.

    Gogiboy
  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,382
    I'm 6-4 and barely fit into my '91 MR2. My head grazes the ceiling so I need to lean forward a bit and my left leg almost hits the dashboard. You're right, though, they're great cars and fun to drive.
  • gogiboygogiboy Member Posts: 732
    cc--

    Glad to hear from a fellow enthusiast. I've only got 60K on my 92. For a 15+ year old car it looks fantastic--almost as good as my 07 Mazda. Everything still works and it is plenty peppy. I know that Toyota sold a small number solid roof 91-95 2s (no T-Top or Sunroof feature). Those may have slightly more headroom. However, if you can fit in at 6' 4" I would think that would cover a fairly broad spectrum of drivers.

    Maybe I missed it, how tall did guss say he was?

    Gogiboy
  • gussguss Member Posts: 1,167
    I am 6'6". I tried an early 90's MR2 years ago and like cccompson said my head was scraping.

    Does anyone have any thoughts on a Z3. I have not even looked at them because I was afraid of the reliability. But for something that might get 4k or 5k miles a year how bad could it be.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I am 5'11" and the Z3 is pretty tight. A Z4 is slightly better but only slightly.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    i found the z4 legroom to be quite generous. A hair less than a 350z, but quite a bit more than an audi TT. I didn't, however, try putting the top up.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    With the top up it is really tight I have to adjust the seat all the way down and recline it back as much as I can or my head is too close to the roof.
  • gussguss Member Posts: 1,167
    I thought as much from sitting in one at the car show about 10 years ago. Scratch another off the already short list.
  • danbone111danbone111 Member Posts: 47
    qbrozen....how about this one....same seller...but i think i like the other color better...and for some reason this one doesnt have the same 'look' as the other....maybe its just the pics...check it out on autotrader...the car id is AT-DB63B7C...
This discussion has been closed.