Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

roadburner

bet the guy who writes "tech talk" in the Roundel could nail all of your questions & give you some great advice....... seems to have an awesome knowledge of every bmw ever made.........& kind of an "advice guru" IMO.......

Mike Miller and I go back quite a while. Some of our escapades still can't be disclosed(the statute of limitations hasn't run yet)...

lisac21

Time to purchase a new BMW since my 2000 323 is about to hit 150,000 miles. I am dreading the fact of walking into the Dealership and want to make sure I get the best deal. Any tips? I live in the Boston area and was thinking of going to the BMW Dealership in Norwood. Had purchased my last BMW in Norwell and thought I would try something new. Your thoughts? :confuse:

woodyww

I'd submit internet quote requests thru edmunds or elsewhere. That can get you started, before just going into dealerships cold & dealing with whatever salesman is there.

BMW Peabody isn't bad, pretty good rep, there's a salesman there who does local club racing, etc. who's pretty good. I talked to either Norwood or Norwell once (think it was Norwood) & they were pretty weird over the phone. I bought my last bmw from the dlr. in Boylston (may be in Shrewsbury now?), they were awesome. Had an Indian (?) salesman who was great; I could look up his name.

Don't forget to ask about pricing--& Boston area dlrships--on bmw forumns on edmunds & also on roadfly.........

boomchek

It's been about a year and a half since I got the C240 that a few of you advised against and I want to get out of it.

I enjoyed driving it for the time but I want to get out cause I'm craving a new car, bored with this one, and want to save money, build up a cash buffer, buy houses, then buy fancy cars later in life.....

Here's my scenario:

1. I can either keep the Benz (it's an 01 C240 184km/115k miles), and brace for major expenses/maintenance/repair.

This would cost me $790/month over 5 years (payments, maintenance, insurance, gas, especially gas, repairs)

OR

2. Keep it and in addition buy a basic no frills car (base Jeep Patriot is on my mind), that won't cost me an arm and a leg to run. But then I'll be stuck with 2 cars, even though the Benz would be parked or stored most of the time.

This choice will cost me $920/month over 5 years (insurance, maintenance, payments, gas, storage insurance for Benz and Patriot)

OR

3. Get rid of the Benz, and take a hit on it, and then get a Jeep Patriot.
This will cost me $716/month, (expenses just on the Patriot like gas, insurance, maintenance) by far the least expensive choice.

I figure if I make it a little sacrifice now, I can be better off in the future, instead of being stuck with the Benz, and any associated repairs, high gas bills, and in the end I'll end up with a 200k mile Benz, worth a few grand at most.

And to top it off my wife still has her 04 civic that's almost paid off, and has only 23k miles, and is in super good shape so I can't see the need for us having 3 cars, especially when we don't have any kids yet.

The problem with getting the Jeep is that I will HAVE TO KEEP IT for minimum 6-10 years, and I figure it would be our beater/spare car after it's paid off.

Buying extra cars during this time would be difficult, and my CCBA membership might risk of being put on hold by The Wife. :surprise:

Selling the Benz on my own is not an option right now, cause I'd have to come up with $5k out of pocket to make it sellable. Using it for racing as I thought before might alos be a long shot, as I might be better off buying a $2k Civic or CRX and using it for that.

Any thoughts or comments? I'm overdue for a purchase anyways. :P

Oh yeah, with the Jeep I'll get 6 months worth of gas ($750 gas card), plus $2k in govt rebates for fuel efficiency that will go in my pocket.

corvette

A couple of things come to mind: I thought you leased the Benz? And, why a Jeep Patriot? Is there anything that it does particularly well that a $10-15k late-model used car doesn't? Have you had a lot of trouble with the Benz? FWIW, Consumer Reports lists the 2000 and 2002 four-cylinder models to have average reliability (they don't have enough data for the 2001 model). I also can't see a Patriot getting that much better real-world gas mileage than a C240.

fintail

5 more years in a miled up 7 year old C-class? I think it might be time to part ways, sounds like a waste of money to keep it around.

boomchek

Yeah I was/am leasing the Benz. The lease will be up soon in about 3 months, but if choose to buy it out it stands me now about $8500 iirc. If I return it I still have to fix the power steering ($4k), climate control ($1k minimum).

The Benz did give me a lot of trouble, more so than a beat up $350, 200k mile 84 Accord I had about 5 years ago.

As for new vs used, I thought about it too, and I have a lot of selection where I work, so I can get pretty much anything in that price range. However the key for me is getting something new with full warranty so that I can focus on drastically reducing my vehicle expenses, while I pay down some things offand put cash away for the future.

The way I see it my C240 is a 2.6L V6, it gets decent mileage but then a small 2.4L 4 cylinder 5 speed will always be better on fuel, plus it takes regular vs premium.

Now, I'm not doing this cause I'm broke or in a dire situation, it's mainly cause I want something diffferent, want something cheaper to run, and something more reliable. If I have trouble with my cars, I tend to get rid of them right away.

obyone

Keeping a jeep, any jeep, for 6 to 10 years is a nightmare in itself. Why would you want to do that?

corvette

Especially if you turn the C240 in, I'd look for more cost-effective repairs... Would you come out ahead if you bought the car at the end of the lease, ignored the repairs, and sold it as-is? Sounds like an expensive lesson in not leasing a car past its warranty period.

That said, I wouldn't worry so much about having something new with full warranty if it's a vehicle with a good track record. I think a used car could fulfill all of your criteria and still cost less than a Patriot.

I'm also looking at "downgrading" after I turn my leased A4 in, so I know where you're coming from. (Actually, I already have the itch, but it seems a little silly to buy a second car now, which will probably also be a four-door, and won't be driven much until December. But, if I start looking now, I might find a better fit than waiting until the last minute... Decisions, decisions...)

boomchek

With keeping the car and ignoring repairs, but just keeping up with basic maintenance is already going to be a lot.

I'll need all the brakes done soon before winter.
Climate control is messed up and on colder days the inside of the windhsield had moisture that froze, meaning I had ice inside the windshield. The vents must be leaking air somewhere.
I can do without power steering, so it's not an issue for me, but I heard the main wiring harnesses fail at around my mileage which cost a fortune to fix.
It's the unexpected that I'm afraid of. If this would have been a one off collector model, no doubt I'd keep and park it, but it's not, it's a run of the mill C240.

My other option in the pre owned range, and pretty much the only other car I like would be a 1 year old Charger SXT. They go for cheap now, and I can get one at the dealer's auction for myself (through my work).

I'd have same fuel economy as the Benz, but I'd prolly enjoy it more than the Patriot.

Plus my wife likes an automatic better, as she drives if I end up drinking when we go out.

corvette

I can think of a lot of cars in that price range I'd like better--Ford Fusion, Saturn Aura, maybe even a Buick Allure?

boomchek

I thought about a Fusion, but I was never a big fan of Fords. The other ones you mentioned are not bad as well, but I can't see myself in a Buick, or an Aura for that matter. I can even get a 2 year old Camry, but I think i'll be bored to death driving it.

qbrozen

sooo... how much negative equity are you talking about burying? OK, yeah, its $5k in repairs, but how much could you get for it on a trade as it sits?

Now ... simply put, you will NOT want to keep a stripper Patriot for 6 years. Not when you've tired of a Benz in 2. I've seen lots of nice low-mile used vehicles for $10k-$12k recently ... mazda3, Scion, Versa, etc. I wouldn't worry one bit about repair expenses in the next 5 years on any one of those that now has maybe 20k miles on it.

boomchek

Negative equity is $5k on the Benz. However I put it, whtether fixing it and selling it or trading it in, I'm out $5k right now.

I've been thinking about last night, and I'm trying to convince myself that a stripper model will be ok, but I'm having a tough time with it. :confuse:

Among friends I'm probably the most knowledgable as to vehicle advise, yet when it comes to myself, I'm so picky, I just don't know what to get.

stickguy

my $.02 (canadian, for you!)

try to band aid the Benz just enough to give it back. Do it yourself or find an indie mechanic. One nice thing about a lease is it doesn't have to be done right, just well enough to pass the return inspection!

and stay away from a new Jeep. doesn't sound like you will last long with it. But, if you can get a slightly used one for a big discousnt (via the auction) that might work, since you can always unload it in about 6 months (weeks?) when you get tired of it.

It I was in your shoes, I would use the wifes Civic for family use (based on miles and MPG), and find something used but interesting for yourself. Just not as used or interesting as the benz.

qbrozen

Buyout is $8600, I believe you said .... so its only worth $3500 on a trade?? OUCH!

boomchek

Yeah, the tradfe in is low. I tried to sell it privately but not many brave sould out there that want to touch it.

Anyways, I bumped myself up to a higher model as I just couldn't see myself in a nerd. The higher model I wanted was eligible for govt rebates ($2k), plus a $750 gas card. It was going to be a dealer trade as we had none in stock, but it turned out they couldn't trade it.

So I decided on a one year old used (08 with 18k/11k miles), which put my payments below where i wanted to be, and it's half loaded with more stuff. Plus it's an auto which will make my wife happy, even though she's not too fond of the green.

The bad thing is that I get no govt rebates, and no gas for 6 months, but I think I can deal with that.

qbrozen

wait .... so you did it?

boomchek

Just in the process of finalizing it.....

lemmer

A Patriot?

grandtotal

wait .... so you did it?

Ah, the impetuousness of youth. Nothing we could have said was going to make a difference.

obyone

LOL!!

Sign here pay later.

corvette

Congratulations... Where does that put you with the M-B? Sink $$$$ into it, then turn in the lease, or sell it, or what?

tifighter

Doing the CCBA thing for 2 or 3 cars before it catches up isn't hard; to make it a 'lifestyle' requires some smart planning and careful choices. Higher mile European practically guarantees taking it in the shorts.

lilengineerboy

Ah, the impetuousness of youth. Nothing we could have said was going to make a difference.

Where were you guys when I got the stupid Accord. I am not a CCBr and if I end up driving that car for the next 10 (well 8 more) years, Im gonna cry in my corn flakes.

All the fun cars are going away, you folks have the right idea if you want to enjoy something before its gone.

gouldn

Well said.

corvette

Compared to most other new cars, you can probably get out from under an Accord without taking a bath on it.

gouldn

Mine had a sticker of $28.5 (EX6L navi cpe) in 2005, I bought it for $24.8 + ttl. Best offers I'm getting on trade is $13.5. Not too horrible, but still a sold $10K down in three years and 21K miles.

boomchek

Ok, so I took a bath on the Benz. Like I said I should have known better especially when I work in the business, but somebody here had to have a Mercedes.

Well, I learned my lesson. Unless I have the dough to buy or lease one brand new, or buy an older one for cash with (lots of) extra money to spare for repairs, I think I'll stay away from used luxury cars for now. :sick:

A wholesaler friend is taking it from us on a trade without me having to put any money into it. The bottom line is I took an $5k hit on the Benz, meaning I'm trading it for a mere $3000. He would have paid $4000 two months ago but because of the current slow down in the car market, he won't touch it for any more than $3k.

Even though it seems like very little, at least to people not familiar with the car biz, (you gave up a Mercedes for $3000? :surprise: ) I have a feeling he'll be stuck with it for a while after he puts some money in it for repairs. Let's say it will cost him $4-5k to fix it, it'll stand him about $8000. He can mark it up to $11995, and hope to let it go for $10k. Now at $11995, he's competing with other C240s priced at only $2k more with only about 60k miles (100k kilomters) as opposed to my 115k miles (185km). I just don't have the time or patience to deal with fixing and selling it, even though I may have shortened myself by about $2k by taking the easy way out.

The Patriot is 10 months old with tons of warranty left on it (only has about 11k miles), automatic (to keep the wife happy), power group, front wheel drive, 2.0L 4 banger, CVT, 115 volt outlet, cruise, Sirius Satelite, ESP, Curtain Airbags, and so on.

We had 5 2008s on the lot, I chose the cleanest, and lowest mileage one, and got it at cost of course.

And the Patriot is now officially my 10th car I had (if you don't count my Dodge Ram demo I had for 4 months, which would be 11th) since my first car 13 years ago.

woodyww

One thing I'll say: you don't "dither" when making decisions! Did you buy or lease? And what kind of warranty on Jeeps in Canada?

I took an $5k hit on the Benz, meaning I'm trading it for a mere $3000.

Dumping an 8 y.o. (?) C-class with over 100K that needs a lot of work for $3K doesn't sound dumb to me. The $5k hit isn't great, but, that was the reality at this point, it sounds like.

Hope the Patriot works out.......

boomchek

I financed this one. Lease rates are exhorbitant right now. I think I'll have this car for a long time, and even if I pay it off, I might keep it as a winter beater or something.

Powertrain warranty is 5 years/100k (60k miles)
Bumper to bumper is 3/60 (36k miles)
$0 deductible,
0 visits to my local friendly Mercedes mechanic
0 out of pocket expenses for repairs
0 cool factor

Overall happy.

fezo

You definitely want to sell that Accord privately if you are getting rid of it. $13.5 is silly.

woodyww

0 cool factor

To me, a new Jeep would be a whole lot "cooler" than a decrepit aging C-class that's driving you nuts with repairs. It'd be different maybe if you'd had to sell some mint condition 560 SEC, or AMG something........but you didn't.

scottinky

took a hit on my wifes 13yo C220 with 70K miles on it to get her into something
newer. the car needed no maintenance, and cost me next to nothing in the 5 years we had it, but I decided since she had 2 more years left on it, 2 small kids in daycare and the potential cost of repairs, i took the money and ran.

boomchek

lol. I should have rephrased it. It was cool for me as it was my first Mercedes.

What I should have said is 0 excitement factor. But no, the Jeep DOES have a coolness of it's own you could say.

I now have visions of camping trips into the wild, parking the Jeep on a rock ledge and having fun like those people in the Jeep brochures and commercials do.

But the reality is, it'll see a gravel parking lot at the local video rental store as I pick up movies and junk food and head back home to lay on the couch. :sick:

boomchek

Probably a wise idea, especially ifrepairs aren't in the budget.

Over the 20 months I had mine I put in:

Alternator ($1000)
New tires ($600)
Cam/crank sensors with oil change ($1000)
Brakes ($400)
Few oil changes ($400)
Speeding ticket ($200)

Total $3600 in 20 months.

fintail

I think you did the right thing. That MB seems to have been cursed, and the next major system failure was a matter of if, not when.

boomchek

I think so too. I feel relieved already.

My wife though says sh'ell miss it.

gouldn

Listening to you reminds me of myself 10 years ago, when I traded a Honda for a used Audi 90s. Nothing but problems. In fact you got off cheap imo. I spent quite a bit more than that in the first 20 months of my 36 months of ownership. Cat converters (2 of them), AC unit, power window switches, and tons of other little items that cost way more than they should have. I remember that every time I brought it in it was $1000 minimum.

The problem is that I really DID like the car. It handled great, had the best feeling stick shift I've ever driven, drove solid, and was more fun than the two cars I've had since (Subaru Forester, Accord Coupe). I just wish I could get the German car experience without having to either buy new for $40K, or buy used and pay the difference $1,000 at a time.

I think the Patriot is cool in its own way. I take my Forester on backpacking trips, and it makes a great vehicle to get to the trail head. I imagine the Patriot is quit similar.

oregonboy

Guys, Guys, seriously now, this Patriot is a 2.0 CVT front-wheel-drive, station wagon. How long do you really expect a true C.C.B. to be happy driving such an appliance... especially someone like boomchek, who is young and works in the car business.

I give it 6 months, tops. :shades:

lemmer

Living in fear of your next $1000 repair is no way to live. After that, the relief of driving something with a warranty might keep a person happy for a year or so.

guss

Well...I think we all are one good juicy rationalization from a new car. Working in car sales for him is like a gambling addict working at a black jack table in Vegas.

I have never had a German luxury car, the closest I have owned is a 2001 Jetta. It was a great car when it wasn't at the dealer. After a year and 5 trips to the dealer,all under warranty, I just could not take the hassle of bumming rides to work ( another juicy rationilazation).

Congrats on the Patriot boomchek !

michaellno

Congrats on the Patriot.

Here's my take .. there's sort of a reverse psychology at work here .. something along the lines of "I'm so cool I don't need leather, sat-nav, sunroof and a gazillion watt stereo system".

BTW, I kinda like the looks of the Patriot. Sort of like a shrunken version of the original 80's Cherokee. The Compass, OTOH, just seems dorky to me.

No changes planned for the fleet in Colorado. Just filled up yesterday ... $52. But, my logs shows that the last time I put gas in the L300 was 15 July. 320 miles in a month. Guess it'll take a long, long time for me to get to 100K at this rate (it's only got 72.5K on it at the moment).

corvette

I wondered when we would start taking bets...

michaellno

Since Jolie seems to be out of the market for the time being, we've got to start betting on something. :P :P

I suspect that some of us who post to this forum (and many more who lurk) are really "provisional" members of CCB. What constitutes Chronic Car Buying? One a year? More? Less?

I guess I would consider myself a member as I've bought or leased 9 cars in the past 11 years.

qbrozen

You are harsher than I. Before I saw your post, I was thinking 2 years.
It is a long time, but with $5k from the Benz buried, it'll probably be 2 years before he'll be back to where he started as of today financially. Until then, his conscience will get the better of him and he'll suffer along begrudgingly.

ah, yes, as is the circle of life for a poor CCB'er.

By the by ... I'm happy to report that after nearly 3 whole months of G35X ownership, I am still very content and have not had my eye wander once .... errrr... more than 3 times. Maybe 5 times, tops!

Thankfully this is not a lease and its a ton of fun, so modding it may keep my interest indefinitely. I've done a few minor things and have many many more in mind.

qbrozen

I know we've discussed this here several times. I think the club would be too small with just the "one a year" members. Personally, I had a stint of 1 every 9 months for 3 purchases/leases. But then I went 2 years without making any moves. So it varies. Unless you work it as an average.

I know there are some here who have had a crazy number. If I exclude my wife's vehicles, I've had 17 in my 17.5 years of driving. So I'm actually just below the 1/1yr average, unless I pick up something else before the end of the year.

boomchek

Thanks for all the congrats from everyone, it feels like we've had a newborn.

My wife was pretty sad last night, because the car made her feel special. Getting rid of it makes her feel like that was our only shot at having a luxury car but I told her that a little sacrifice now will pay off big later as we can really save some big bucks.

I explained to her that there's a ton of people out there who don't have any car, let alone 2 newer ones, who don't have all the fancy toys we have, and who can't afford to take 2-3 nice vacations a year, so she doesn't need to be sad.

I promised her that the next car will be something exotic, even better than the C240 we had, and I'm working my butt of for that.

fintail

A problematic aging C240 made her feel special? That mindset looks bad on the surface, but she has pretty simple tastes really. With the way highline cars are depreciating right now, in a few years you'll be able to get something much more 'special' for not much more money than you paid for the C-class. That car wasn't MB's finest hour anyway. You'll be better off. What's a 1995 C-class with issues worth today? Not a lot. That's what you'd have if you kept it.

boomchek

She knows her cars ok for a girl, but to her it's not a problematic C240, it's a nice looking black Mercedes. Yeah she complained when it broke down, but otherwise she was happy with it.

Now don't get me wrong, she's far from a materialistic type, and she's not one of those girls who's like "ooh let's be friends with them cause thy drive a nice car". If she would be I wouldn't have married her. She'll hold off from shopping and put money aside into savings. Plus when me and her hooked up, I had no Mercedes.

I'm even telling her, if she wants, we can trade in her Civic and find a nice 01-03 3 series convertible for her. And as tempting as it is for her, (probably because of this Mercedes experiment) she says no thanks, she'll stick to her 04 Civic.