Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

roadburner

I found and purchased a restored heater box for my 2002 for $250. To put that in perspective, a new fan motor costs $250 and a heater core goes for $390. The box is PnP so I can perform the transplant over a couple of days at the same time I'm replacing the radiator(and installing the 320i Recaros I nabbed off eBay last year).

nippononly

A Toyota dealer near me, for some reason (not sure why they would keep one on the lot so old), has an '83 Celica GT liftback for sale. It seems to be in really nice shape (they were closed when I looked at it), paint is good, tires are new, interior looks good, it has 133K on it. And it's a stick. In '83 they were still RWD and that's also the first year of fuel injection. I have had a few of these over the years, so the nostalgia quotient is high.

It's all I can do to keep from heading back over there when they're open and make an offer! I'm sure the asking price is ludicrous, knowing this place they are probably asking $5-6K. I'm going to have to consciously avoid the place for a while. How long I can continue to do so, I just don't know! But after not buying ANYTHING last year, I'm sure my CCBA quota must be at least two this year!

michaellno

Here's one vote for you to get that Celica. My folks had one back in the day .. they bought it used while I was in college, back in '84 or '85. Theirs was blue with blue interior, but an automatic.

Was quite reliable until they forgot to change the timing belt and it snapped on my mom when she was about 30-40 miles from home. Oops. Was still a pretty fun car - I got a ticket in it once coming back from LA with my aunt in the car. Double oops.

After my son was born in '89, it wasn't practical for them to have a two door so they traded it in on a used '91 Camry.

Bottom line .. what are YOU willing to pay for it? If it was an ad car from a private owner, it's probably worth what, maybe 3 grand? At the end of the day, it's still a 26 year old car with no safety equipment (does it have the motorized belts?).

My .02 on this Friday morning.

iwant12

A friend of mine at work has one, an 85 I believe, and he's all the time being approached by some guy wanting to buy it so he can turn it into a drifting car.

andre1969

There's a guy at work who used to have a Celica from that vintage. I don't remember much about it except that it was black and and looked a bit faded, but was pretty rust-free for a Toyota of that vintage (in Maryland at least, I imagine they last forever in Cali). It didn't have hidden headlights, but rather exposed units that were set at the same raked angle as the grille, but would pop up when turned on.

guss

Buy it just to save it from being turned into a drift car. That would be a terrible end to a nice car.

I'm with michael, $3,500 to $4,000 max is all I would pay for it.

woodyww

Are you taking pics &/or documenting the restoration on any website? It'd probably make a good article for your local club magazine.

trigger

Hi, my name is Charles and I'm a Chronic Car buyer.

I've actually been on the wagon for the last three years. But I've got an itch that just won't go away. Financially I know it's not the right thing to do, but I want to do it anyway. My only debt is my mortgage and my vehicle, so I figure everyone has to have at least one vice. Am I right or am I right?

Looking to get a GMC/Chevy with the 6.2l engine. I test drove a Sierra Denali and it was fast. :shades:

And these are my cars (since 1998 when I graduated college)
Started out with a parent paid-for 1995 Silverado

1998 Silverado 4x4
1999 Acura TL (my legs were too long, never should have purchased)
1999 F150 4x4
2002 Sierra Denali
2004 Silverado
2006 F150 KR 4x4

That's not as bad as some of the others I've seen earlier in this thread, but it's many more than just about all my friends/peers.

fintail

I hope the seller isn't pricing it based on this...

fezo

Love the brown on brown. Really gives it that period touch.

Bring the price down by a little - say $10K or more - and I might be interested....

roadburner

Are you taking pics &/or documenting the restoration on any website? It'd probably make a good article for your local club magazine.

I'm thinking about it. I've got several "before" pictures so I might just open a blog on my CarSpace page. I've been really fortunate in that I've been able to pick up a lot of stuff for much less than I budgeted for. Which means that there must be a huge financial land mine down the road; a restoration project NEVER comes in under budget.

js06gv

Wow, you bring back some nostalgia for me too on a car I haven't thought about in awhile. My dad bought a brand new '83 Celica GT black hatch 5-speed. We had been living in Calgary for a couple of years at the time. We were transferred to Houston in Oct. '83 and sold it after about a year. Great car, and was supposed to eventually be mine as I was getting my license about 3 years later.

Looking back, I guess the car was a little unique as the body style came out in '82 and only had the "pop forward" headlamps through '83. In '84 the lamps were redesigned to a typical "pop up" style.

If the price isn't ridiculously strong, I'd say go for it.

lilengineerboy

A Toyota dealer near me, for some reason (not sure why they would keep one on the lot so old), has an '83 Celica GT liftback for sale. It seems to be in really nice shape (they were closed when I looked at it), paint is good, tires are new, interior looks good, it has 133K on it. And it's a stick. In '83 they were still RWD and that's also the first year of fuel injection. I have had a few of these over the years, so the nostalgia quotient is high.

So that's a 22RE? IF it doesn't rust it will run forever. Its not excessively powerful, but its kinda fun to kick around.

qbrozen

Wow. You guys are really generous. Even if its perfect and needs nothing, I would put $2500 as the end all be all price. Most likely, its less than $2k, though.

Easy enough to look up, but just to throw this out there ... if michaell's folks broke a timing belt in one, it couldn't have the 22RE, as that had a chain (at least the one in my '87 4runner did).

edit: hmmm... but, sure nough, it had the 22R and RE. Although wiki is kinda iffy. First they say "All North American cars had the 22r and re," but then they add "the carbureted 2.0 was also used." Huh?

lilengineerboy

Was quite reliable until they forgot to change the timing belt and it snapped on my mom when she was about 30-40 miles from home. Oops. Was still a pretty fun car - I got a ticket in it once coming back from LA with my aunt in the car. Double oops.

Are you sure that wasn't a Corolla GTS? I am pretty sure the 22R/RE all had chains. The only other upside is I think its a non-interference engine so its just a matter of throwing on a new rubber band.

bumpy

22R = carb 2.0; 22RE = efi 2.0 (probably throttle-body injection in those days). I think Toyota had gone to a single-row timing chain by then, too.

woodyww

Even if its perfect and needs nothing, I would put $2500 as the end all be all price. Most likely, its less than $2k, though.

What did early '80's celica's cost brand new? $5K-$10K? And now it's 16 years old, so almost by definition it's a "project car", or will be, even if fairly nice. I remember those cars, but to 99% of all people, they'll just look at it as a 16 year old toyota with no air bags (I think?), when you go to sell, a car for a college kid who's scraped together $2000-ish--then it's a great deal.....

Not saying Nippon shouldn't want it or buy it, but personally I'd be as frugal as an old Danish Farmer on this one......with moths flying out of his wallet......

stickguy

this is 2009 WOddy, not the 90's. That baby is 26 years old. Hey, it can drink now!

british_rover

You can get classic or antique plates for cars in most states if the car is more then 20 or 25 years old.

You gotta roll with the antique plates.

corvette

Time flies when you're switching vehicles every few months!

qbrozen

22R = carb 2.0; 22RE = efi 2.0 (probably throttle-body injection in those days). I think Toyota had gone to a single-row timing chain by then, too.

That is not correct, sir.
22R and RE is a 2.4 liter engine.
And I'm not positive, but I believe it had a dual-row chain. I replaced the head gasket in 1994, so the memory is a bit hazy, as you can understand.

andre1969

this is 2009 WOddy, not the 90's. That baby is 26 years old. Hey, it can drink now!

LOL, I have to admit, I've made the same mistake a few times. Lately, I've had the bad habit of somehow managing to lose a decade when I reminisce about the past. If I talk about something that happened in 2004, for example, I'll muff up and say '94!

It's scary though, how fast the time goes by. I haven't bought anything since my '79 NY'er back on May 19, 2007...26 months ago! I think my longest abstinence period is just under 31 months. My Mom sold the '85 Silverado to me in late September 2002, and I bought my '76 LeMans on April 17, 2005. Weird, how some dates just stick in your mind like that.

michaellno

...or do I just want to renew my CCBA membership?

Was poking around the 'net this morning (back to back conference calls gives one the time to do this), and found something that might be tempting:

Subaru Outback

Was thinking about a straight up trade of my '03 Saturn L300 - 85K miles. My thinking is that having a wagon (for the room) and AWD (for CO winters) might not be a bad thing.

Thoughts?

stever

Cars.com doesn't like your search link so it's resolving to an empty page for me. And now I can't even get the main site there to load. You killed it, lol. :shades:

michaellno

Bummer.

OK, here are the details:

2001 Subaru Outback, medium green over silver with beige leather interior. 2.5L H-4, automatic, 93K miles. Looks to be a Limited model. New tires, dual sunroofs.

Dealer is asking $6495.

What would I look for on this car?

stever

Unless it's already been done, it'll need a timing belt at 105,000 miles. The indy mechanic here gets $700 for that; the dealer is about the same price but the indy guy does the tensioner for that money and the dealer doesn't.

The price sounds ok off the top of my head (I have this vision that my '97 Outback Limited with ~74,000 miles is still worth over $5,000 ).

My seals are weeping a little but nothing that can't wait until the timing belt gets done.

michaellno

Steve, thanks for the quick response.

Yeah, the timing belt is the one thing I was thinking (concerned) with. I've gotta research my L to see when it's supposed to get changed.

I wonder if the asking price is so low because they know the belt needs replacement within the first year, and if they replace it they would jack the price up to $7195?

Also, from the ad:

THIS VEHICLE RUNS REAL WELL AND ALSO COMES WITH A 6 MONTH WARRANTY.

Wonder what the warranty covers?

british_rover

THIS VEHICLE RUNS REAL WELL AND ALSO COMES WITH A 6 MONTH WARRANTY.

Wonder what the warranty covers?

Whatever you can see with the hood and doors closed that isn't covered by paint, isn't plastic and isn't glass or considered cosmetic. :P

corvette

Isn't your L a V6? The H4 is probably going to be noisier. Also, I think the spark plugs have to be changed every 30k on the Sube, and they're a pain to get to. They're supposed to be very solid, reliable cars, though.

woodyww

Oh man, 26 years since 1983 (slapping hand on forehead)?! If stickboy wants to send me a calendar tho, I'll take it, LOL. One with a lot of Paris Hilton pics would be most helpful to me right now.

You remember those old movies where they showed time passing by calendar pages flashing by--April, May, June, 1941-42-43, etc, then suddenly it's 20 (or 26) years later....? Despite my poor math skills, I can't say that knowing the celica is older than I thought increases my guess as to what it's worth......

michaellno

Isn't your L a V6? The H4 is probably going to be noisier.

Yes, my L is the 3.0L V6. I've test driven the H4 with automatic and, IMO, any 4-cyl is going to be noisier than a V6 - just inherent to the engine design. I'm not looking for speed this go around, more about the versatility and poor weather capabilities.

See, my master plan is to find some sort of everyday / winter use car, and in a couple of years, when the budget allows, get something fast and fun to use on nice days (used Mustang GT or 3-series are in my mind at the moment - coupe or convertible, I haven't decided).

I just checked on Edmunds about my L -- the timing belt and plugs need to be replaced at 100K, and the cooling system needs to be flushed sooner rather than later. Edmunds estimates about $95 for the belt and $175 in labor costs to change it.

Also, I think the spark plugs have to be changed every 30k on the Sube, and they're a pain to get to.

I wasn't aware of this. I'm not really a DIY kind of guy, so would have to see how much this would run me. Though, with 93K on the clock, it should have just been done, ya know?

Another pic of the Subaru:

stever

I've heard that the plugs really aren't too bad but I haven't tried to change them. At least I can follow the wires to the plugs on the Subie - there's one plug on my van I've never seen.

I didn't change my plugs at 60,000. I track every gallon and figure that my mpg will indicate if I'm pushing them too far at some point, and the ECU gizmo will compensate for eroding plugs in the meantime. I don't change the oil every 3,000 miles like Subie recommends either but you have to watch out for head gasket issues on some of these and regular maintenance is a good preventative measure. Subie made some changes over the years to address this issue (some engine tweaks, new gaskets, etc.). Battery corrosion is something else to keep on top of.

It's a pretty handy and versatile ride - wish mine was a manual though.

michaellno

It's a pretty handy and versatile ride - wish mine was a manual though.

Yeah, I will have to agree with you on that. When I (briefly) had my FIL's '93 Legacy with stick, it was not a bad ride. Took it 1100 miles from Denver to LA a couple of years ago and didn't miss a beat, even with ambient temps approaching 100 degrees and 140K on the clock.

Just checked with the boss on all this. She's OK with it since it will give us both AWD for the winter. She's concerned about any out of pocket expenses on the transaction, however (meaning, if the dealer won't give me what I want in trade value).

The husband of a co-worker of my wife's has started a small on-call auto repair business. I'm thinking I can get him to look over the Subaru for a nominal cost and let me know if there are any big repair bills looming.

Just called my insurance agent. Surprisingly, the Subaru will cost me $20 more for insurance every 6 months when compared to the Saturn.

I guess the next step is to call the dealer and ask a few questions:

1) has the timing belt been changed?
2) when were the plugs last replaced?
3) is a service history available?

Any other questions I might want to consider?

stever

Any other questions I might want to consider?

How long of a laundry list do you want? :P Tire matching is sort of important on Subarus.

A mechanic look-over would be well worth it. All that said, I almost got a Miata two months ago and all I did was pull a Carfax and have a $13 emissions test done. Codes came up and I got scared off, otherwise it was going to be a gut deal. I knew the Subaru and owner well when I got it, and purchased it having not seen it for 3 or 4 years. I have trouble sweating the details sometimes....

michaellno

Steve, thanks for the list .. I knew something like that existed here at Edmunds. I will, however, print out that list and hang onto it.

I'm not yet ready to head to the dealer to look it over ... it's about a 30 minute drive from home and will need to find some time to do that. I was thinking more about stuff that can be covered in a phone call.

lilengineerboy

I would be hesitant to buy a pre-2004 Subaru with the 2.5. There have been enough issues concerning the head gasket failures that I wouldn't take on that risk. That said, I have a 2005, so I am not Subaru adverse in any way, and supposedly the 2004+ don't share that affliction.

I guess another way to look at it is when you do the timing belt @ 105k, do the head gaskets too. If the car is a good value, the gaskets might be worth doing.

Subaru Head Gasket

pavelbarchuk

I dont know about you guys, but paying 6500 dollars for a 2001 car with close to 100k miles seems alot for me. I worked at a big dealership before and we took those subarus in for under 3000 bucks. Also, many time the dealer will purchase 3rd party warranties or inlcude the warranty into the price cuz they know the car might break once it leaves the lot.

Dont forget, the economy is really bad and dealers overcharge customers for every little thing to stay alive. Otherwise i think the car is great, besides the color because you see the same thing on every corner.

fintail

Kind of on topic, now my brother is looking for a car. His beloved Sundance Duster, with iffy "racing" suspension" and weird "performance" wheels suffered a major mechanical failure. He's a big slacker, so he doesn't have a lot of money to throw around - maybe 3 grand tops (I suspect he sweet talked my mother out of a little to come up with that kind of money). I wonder what I should recommend to him. I was thinking a mid 90s Civic or Corolla, but he doesn't like those. He has a thing for Subarus (on topic again), but it is tough to find anything decent after 1994 or so around here for that money, as they are very popular here. He also once mentioned maybe a mid 90s Toyota PU...but I don't know if he would care for it once he drove it. I wonder what he will get....he'll probably seek my advice.

corvette

Hmm, 3 grand budget, and it appears he has an affection for performance versions of American compact cars. I'd suggest a 1996 or later Cavalier Z24 or Sunfire GT. Supposedly, the powertrains on those cars are pretty indestructible.

boomchek

3k I think would only get him a rusty Toyota truck.

Maybe a Ford Focus hatchback? A Z24 would work too, although I'm not a big fan of them.

Personally I'd stick with an older Civic or Prelude or even a early 90s Accord EXR. Those are perfect size, look good, and last forever.

fintail

Things don't rust so quickly here. He lives in a little town of about 15K people - little old man pickups hit the market now and then. But, they are very basic and slow, I don't know if he could handle it.

I think for 3K any Focus he gets would be a very early model - and maybe troublesome, I remember the first ones were a headache. But, that might be an idea. The sport versions of the Cadavalier and siblings aren't a bad suggestion either. Can't be worse than the pseudosport version of the Neon he bought nearly new, and he hated it soon after.

I think he has a bad taste in his mouth after his old Accord died - although I am certain it was his fault - he drove it hard and didn't maintain it. He also doesn't like the image some of those cars portray - if he got one, it would have to be 100% stock. He's not a ricer.

He has a friend who has a VW fastback. He thinks that's a cool car, but I don't know if he understands the work required to make something that old and German a daily driver. I have spotted a claimed "low miles" 97 Park Avenue supercharged for sale from a local dealer, for 4K. That's more along the lines of what I would suggest for him - but it wouldn't be his style. One thing he's doing right anyway, he doesn't want to finance a car - he just wants to buy it.

He also likes 4WB Subaru Justys (good luck) and Subaru Legacy sedans. I'll get to live vicariously through his car shopping...as I don't plan to buy anything for some time.

fintail

I will suggest that to him. For whatever reason, he does like American cars, along with Subies.

I see a few 92-93 Camrys for sale in that range, too. If it has been cared for, that might not be a bad bet, those were well made cars.

bumpy

They seem to be pretty good cars by the end of the production run; certainly better than the contemporary early Focii anyway.

stickguy

put this on the project threads too, but anyone have a clue what a reasonable price for htis would be?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280375230102&fromM- akeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:us

mark156

It's good to see that Akangl still has the Pilot... I still have the 2007 CR-V with almost 29,000 miles of driving with another 25,000 miles of towing (behind the motorhome). I just bought new Michelins for the Honda so hopefully will get 50,000 miles out of this new set as well.

The Michelins on the motorhome can go way over 100,000 miles, time is the killer, not the miles (or bad alignment).

The Honda has been an excellent car. The battery and the rear differential fluid have been replaced/changed under warranty. Just put on new wipers all around. Also, the passenger pull-down armrest had to be replaced recently (started to peel). The driver-side was fine.

The new Bentley GTC only has 1,400 miles on it and I'll have it a year in October. I'll pull it out of the garage soon and put some miles on it!

Happy motoring to all!
Mark156

stever

Thanks for checking in Mark - I was wondering last week where you were.

boomchek

You too Mark, enjoy the Bentley!

guss

You might want to look at Mazda Protege's, and while not exciting Buick Century's are pretty reliable.

fintail

Thanks for the suggestion, he might like an old Protege, and I do see a lot of them still around. The Century on the other hand, I don't know...although he did like the Lumina he had several years ago. He has some varying tastes, but at least his eyes aren't bigger than his wallet...usually.

michaellno

I think I'm not going to pursue the '01 Subaru ... too many miles and the link to the head gasket site didn't reassure me one little bit.

With some more searching, I found the following at a Subaru / VW dealer in Colorado Springs:

2002 Ford Explorer



TMV, near as I can tell, is $10.3, so the $9K asking price isn't too bad. Also, I like that it only has 60K on it.

I owned an '02 Explorer at one time ... though mine was an XLT with the 4.0L V6.